A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Captain Wiggles]

Mayhew or Hurney would be very meh. 😔

[XxSpearheadxX]

Yeah two of the years with Gruden we had historically bad defenses. Not just bad, one of the worst ever in the history of the NFL thanks in part to our record breaking terrible 3rd down defense. 

 

The team today has definite weaknesses on offense and defense but I just can't see anything devolving suddenly like those years with gruden. We are definitely going to get better not worse. 

[Est.1974]

8 hours ago, clietas said:

Mayhew or Hurney would be very meh. 😔

Agree. Hurley in another badged advisory role works for me. He has a very strong relationship with Rivera, so I’m fine in that capacity.

[tibbidoe]

Bored at work thought:

 

Joe Gibbs is the best HC we've had, but who would be the best OC/DC we've ever had? Like, historically. Same for GM/President?

[Conn]

14 minutes ago, tibbidoe said:

Bored at work thought:

 

Joe Gibbs is the best HC we've had, but who would be the best OC/DC we've ever had? Like, historically. Same for GM/President?

Im not as knowledgeable about the 80’s teams given my age, but didn’t Gibbs design the offense and call the plays himself the first time around? 
 

Some consideration has to be given to Kyle Shanahan for the way his innovations with RG3 changed the way mobile QBs are seen and utilized across the league, and he continues to do things that reverberate through the league every season. His coaching tree is also looking pretty damn good right now, so I think in ten years this will be an easy answer even if he didn’t fully blossom “here” while calling plays as the OC. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

19 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Im not as knowledgeable about the 80’s teams given my age, but didn’t Gibbs design the offense and call the plays himself the first time around? 
 

Some consideration has to be given to Kyle Shanahan for the way his innovations with RG3 changed the way mobile QBs are seen and utilized across the league, and he continues to do things that reverberate through the league every season. His coaching tree is also looking pretty damn good right now, so I think in ten years this will be an easy answer even if he didn’t fully blossom “here” while calling plays as the OC. 

In the 1980's, it was Gibb's offense, to be sure, but he did have a lot of really good lieutenants like Joe Bugel and Don Breaux. However, you'd have to say Gibbs was the defacto OC of his first tenure, though I think Breaux had the official title, and I'd say, given that they were a really outstanding offense with a whole bunch of rotating pieces (Qbs, RBs in particular), set the scoring mark in 1983, and got to 5 NFC Championship games, 4 SBs, and won 3 of them, you would have to argue he was the best OC as well.  He basically invented the 1 back set to block Lawrence Taylor.  Up until the 80's, offenses were almost always a 2 back (RB/FB) set.  The innovations seem kindof quaint today, but in hindsight, they were really forward thinking.  

 

I go back to the 1980's, so my memory stops there.  I think from an offensive perspective, nothing was really "outstanding" before the 80's, though.  The best coach of the 1970's, George Allen, looked at offense as a necessary evil.  

 

The OC of much of the 1990's was Norv.  He was the HC and OC.  And Norv could scheme up an offense.  But he was a bad HC, and the talent was "meh" a lot of the time.  

 

In the 2000's, you had Jim Rayne under Marty, which was just an implementation of Marty-ball.  I don't know who technically was the OC for Spurrier's 2 years, but that thing was a debacle.  Then Gibbs again, he was the defacto OC for 2004/2005, then turned the reins over to Al Saunders in 2006/2007.  Al was, by all accounts, a very good OC.  He had previous success in KC.  But I don't think his philosophy and either Joe (Gibbs or Bugel) really meshed.  Then there was Zorn. Enough said.  

 

In the 2010's, you had Kyle, who was a really good OC (success in Houston, then here then in Atlanta), and had both McVay and LaFleur on that staff.  Then McVay.  I'd give a tip of the hat to both Kyle and McVay, but neither were close to as innovative and successful as Gibbs was in the 1980's, given the time, though Kyle's offense in 2012 was pretty special.  That's changed since they've left.  But I'm looking at them while they were here.  

 

After Kyle it was really Jay's offense in 2014 (which was kindof terrible), then McVay started calling plays in 2015 and 2016, and it was better.  He left, Jay took over again, and the offense was "meh" again.  Though some of that was the fact whoever it was in charge thought Ryan Grant was a legitimate NFL receiver and Rob Kelly was a legitimate NFL Running Back.  (Along with a lot of other stupid personnel moves.) Then after Kirk left, there was the rotating chair at QB.  I don't blame Jay for that part of it.  Running on 80% of first downs in the first halves of games for 6 years I think disqualifies you as a good OC though.  

 

Which brings us to this year and Scott Turner.  Which I think was pretty good, but certainly not as good as Gibbs, and not quite as good as Kyle and McVay. I'd say better than Jay though, and certainly better than all of the guys in the 2000's.  He's got a ways to go to catch dad though.  When Norv actually had a QB and a receiver, they set offensive franchise records in 1999.  

 

On the defensive coordinator side, since 1980, the answer is Richie Pettibone, and there isn't a second place.  You skip the next 5 spots to get to Gregg Williams.  Then you throw out the rest of the candidates until JDR.  I'm not sure what happened before 1980 as far as who was a great DC.  But after 1980, we've had 3 good DCs: Pettibone (who was phenomenal), Gregg Williams and JDR.  Blache, Haz, Barry and Manusky are the others. Blache was "ok." The rest were straight up awful.  

[86 Snyder]

59 minutes ago, tibbidoe said:

Bored at work thought:

 

Joe Gibbs is the best HC we've had, but who would be the best OC/DC we've ever had? Like, historically. Same for GM/President?

 

OC: Gibbs

DC: Pettibone

FO: Beathard

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Cowden IMO is just as sexy as a name as Schoen purely as to buzz about up and comers.  He made the short list of up and comers from what I recall from Breer who seems to be the national reporter most on the topic.   

 

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[RWJ]

Looks like RR is going to take his time with the GM search according to the tweets above.  I mean Saturday for the next candidate.  Sure seems that way but we wait to see how it plays out.  Thanks for posting the info as always, SIP. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

37 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Looks like RR is going to take his time with the GM search according to the tweets above.  I mean Saturday for the next candidate.  Sure seems that way but we wait to see how it plays out.  Thanks for posting the info as always, SIP. 

I think it's going to happen fairly quickly.  Like, not tomorrow, but maybe end of next week and certainly well before the superbowl.

 

JP also believes this, and I think I heard Keim say it as well.

 

I'm fine with it.  Just so everybody is clear, though, everything I've heard the GM is going to report to Ron, and Ron is still going to effectively have final personnel say. 

 

What I heard discussed is Ron is at the top of the football org chart, and will effectively have 4 direct reports (though 1 of those is actually 3 people):

 

Rob Rodgers, who seems to be Ron's right hand advisor at the moment, and that role doesn't seem to be changing.

The new "GM" who will have responsibility for the player personnel side, however will work with Ron on final roster decisions

Brian Vermillian, the head trainer

"Coaching Staff" which is really  the OC/DC/STC, and then all of the other folks report to those 3, technically.

 

Roster construction will still be collaborative, though I can't imagine Ron giving up final say.  

 

No idea if Kyle Smith stays or not.  My guess is he stays through the draft regardless, and that's probably contractual, unless somebody comes up to offer him a GM job.  

[RichmondRedskin88]

I dont have a particular issue with Ron having final say on the roster.  He’s got to coach them and how can we judge Ron if it’s not the players he wants.  Roster management is only one part of a GM’s duties anyway.  GM just takes being the face of everything off Ron’s plate.  The GM needs to be able to step to the podium to address roster and business issues.  Ron needs to finally be able to focus on the team but trust the people around them can do their jobs so he doesn’t have to. 

[Andre The Giant]

• The Washington Football Team has put in requests to interview 49ers VP of player personnel Martin Mayhew and Titans VP of player personnel Ryan Cowden. Along with internal candidates Eric Stokes and Kyle Smith, WFT will likely also interview former Texans GM Rick Smith if he's still available. Former Panthers GM Marty Hurney would be the leader for the job today.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notes-what-urban-meyer-will-do-for-jaguars-and-owner-shad-khan-plus-division-round-picks/

 

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

I think it's going to happen fairly quickly.  Like, not tomorrow, but maybe end of next week and certainly well before the superbowl.

 

JP also believes this, and I think I heard Keim say it as well.

 

I'm fine with it.  Just so everybody is clear, though, everything I've heard the GM is going to report to Ron, and Ron is still going to effectively have final personnel say. 

 

What I heard discussed is Ron is at the top of the football org chart, and will effectively have 4 direct reports (though 1 of those is actually 3 people):

 

Rob Rodgers, who seems to be Ron's right hand advisor at the moment, and that role doesn't seem to be changing.

The new "GM" who will have responsibility for the player personnel side, however will work with Ron on final roster decisions

Brian Vermillian, the head trainer

"Coaching Staff" which is really  the OC/DC/STC, and then all of the other folks report to those 3, technically.

 

Roster construction will still be collaborative, though I can't imagine Ron giving up final say.  

 

No idea if Kyle Smith stays or not.  My guess is he stays through the draft regardless, and that's probably contractual, unless somebody comes up to offer him a GM job.  

Good points and thanks for sharing.  Things will start unfolding soon enough.

[drowland]

On 1/13/2021 at 1:18 PM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He could be.  I guess listening to different accounts about this in the context of Kyle.  The GM job isn't just about picking players but also about being a liason with players, helping establish culture in the building (not just with players but everyone) and performing many adminstration tasks.  I get the impression that this part isn't Kyle's niche just yet. 

 

 

 

Sounds like his father, AJ.  Also sounds like John Dorsey.  They're calling the Chiefs/Browns game this weekend the Dorsey bowl since he's responsible for a lot of the talent on those two rosters.  Dorsey was good at acquiring talent but he didn't do well with the culture part which is why both clubs fired him.  

[RWJ]

14 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

• The Washington Football Team has put in requests to interview 49ers VP of player personnel Martin Mayhew and Titans VP of player personnel Ryan Cowden. Along with internal candidates Eric Stokes and Kyle Smith, WFT will likely also interview former Texans GM Rick Smith if he's still available. Former Panthers GM Marty Hurney would be the leader for the job today.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-insider-notes-what-urban-meyer-will-do-for-jaguars-and-owner-shad-khan-plus-division-round-picks/

 

I just can't put into CBS (if this is JLC) what he's reporting.  Thanks for posting ATG and nothing on you but JMO. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Andre The Giant]

2 minutes ago, RWJ said:

I just can't put into CBS (if this is JLC) what he's reporting.  Thanks for posting ATG and nothing on you but JMO. 

 

No worries ... this is actually from Jonathan Jones, who hasn't broken much for WFT.  But his list of names rings true to me.  He's also the first guy to mention that Kyle Smith and Eric Stokes would interview.  Also, Snyder talked to Rick Smith before hiring Rivera, so not too surprised to see his name in there as well.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

12 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

Yeah two of the years with Gruden we had historically bad defenses. Not just bad, one of the worst ever in the history of the NFL thanks in part to our record breaking terrible 3rd down defense. 

 

The team today has definite weaknesses on offense and defense but I just can't see anything devolving suddenly like those years with gruden. We are definitely going to get better not worse. 

When you say "devolving suddenly" what are you referring to? Gruden had this team pretty steadily between 7-9 and 9-7 until the bottom fell out in his final year. It was led by offense, for sure, but I actually remembering commenting to a few friends in 2016 and 2017 that at least we had steadied the ship a bit. It's a sad milestone, but I can't think of another 3-year run without double-digit losses under one coach since Norv. 

 

So, I agree that I wouldn't expect a bad season in the next couple years (10+ losses) but I also have been fooled many times with this team under Snyder's leadership. 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

No worries ... this is actually from Jonathan Jones, who hasn't broken much for WFT.  But his list of names rings true to me.  He's also the first guy to mention that Kyle Smith and Eric Stokes would interview.  Also, Snyder talked to Rick Smith before hiring Rivera, so not too surprised to see his name in there as well.

One thing I do like is that Kyle Smith's name is mentioned and my hope is he's the pick as our new GM even though whoever get's the job reports to RR and he makes the final decisions. 

[JoggingGod]

Kyle Smith isn’t even going to get an interview lol

[RWJ]

20 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Kyle Smith isn’t even going to get an interview lol

Read the CBS link posted above.  They THINK so I don't put much into CBS articles but I hope they are correct on that part of the article.  You could be right.  

[XxSpearheadxX]

46 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

When you say "devolving suddenly" what are you referring to? Gruden had this team pretty steadily between 7-9 and 9-7 until the bottom fell out in his final year. It was led by offense, for sure, but I actually remembering commenting to a few friends in 2016 and 2017 that at least we had steadied the ship a bit. It's a sad milestone, but I can't think of another 3-year run without double-digit losses under one coach since Norv. 

 

So, I agree that I wouldn't expect a bad season in the next couple years (10+ losses) but I also have been fooled many times with this team under Snyder's leadership. 

I specifically mean there isn't going to be a historically bad defense or something like that pop up next year. I just don't see it, Rivera has a different kind of structure in the team. Our offense won't be worse than it was this year and our defense is definitely going to be  better (unless there is some insane level of injuries) 

 

Now when you bring up "under snyder" of course he could completely decide to **** things up but I don't see that happening because  Rivera wouldn't stand for that, he would bounce. So as long as it is under Riveras tenure this team is at its baseline imo, only up from here. 

[Blanka]