A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Riggo#44]

Just listened to Jason Wright on 106.7. Wow, what a class act--complete opposite of Allen. Very smart, very well-spoken, transparent, and down to earth. Loved what he had to say about the name, the culture, and "not running a rinky-dink organization" (exact quote).

 

Primarily, he talked that they actually have a plan to fill FedEx with Washington fans! And it went beyond just winning--he said if you're waiting to win to draw fans, you're running a bad business.

 

Finally, he call Snyder "Dan," and not "Mr. Snyder."

[Wildbunny]

From President Jason Wright:

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Wildbunny
Gatewy Time Out?

[Riggo#44]

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Riggo#44

[RWJ]

8 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Just listened to Jason Wright on 106.7. Wow, what a class act--complete opposite of Allen. Very smart, very well-spoken, transparent, and down to earth. Loved what he had to say about the name, the culture, and "not running a rinky-dink organization" (exact quote).

 

Primarily, he talked that they actually have a plan to fill FedEx with Washington fans! And it went beyond just winning--he said if you're waiting to win to draw fans, you're running a bad business.

 

Finally, he call Snyder "Dan," and not "Mr. Snyder."

Could we be Arrowhead Stadium #2?

[Wildbunny]

On the GM position:

 

Edited January 14, 2021 by Wildbunny

[RWJ]

New names coming up don't impress from Atl. and LA Chargers. 

[Skinsinparadise]

I like that they are casting a wide net.  Arguably people could say the same about Kyle Smith considering this team hasn't had a winning record in years.  Depends on the person/context.

[RWJ]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like that they are casting a wide net.  Arguably people could say the same about Kyle Smith considering this team hasn't had a winning record in years.  Depends on the person/context.

Can't disagree but the 2 names (Polk and JoJo) I mentioned didn't show much.  Wide net I'm all for. 

Edited January 14, 2021 by RWJ

[Skinsinparadise]

10 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Can't disagree but the 2 names (Polk and JoJo) I mentioned didn't show much.  Wide net I'm all for. 

 

didn't show much how?   I don't know anything about them so i am not sure what you are referring to?

[RWJ]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

didn't show much how?   I don't know anything about them so i am not sure what you are referring to?

Go into the Falcons and Chargers sites and read up on their profiles. 

[TSO]

On 1/13/2021 at 10:23 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

It's a good explanation for why i do think with THIS organization the coach centric model might be the best if you have the right coach in charge.  Ron doesn't fancy himself as the defacto head scout like for example Shanny supposedly did.  Rivera seems to listen to people in that building versus ruling everything like a Julius Ceasar.  

We’ve gotten into this before and I’ve told you I think this is a valid opinion to have if you want to believe that there is simply no hope with Dan and somehow the Head Coach manages to shield him from everything while not getting influenced negatively either (I’ve got problems with that argument, never mind it means we’re stuck in a model that’s been proven to fail more often than the others, but I won’t get into that here)... but then we can’t call this a “coach-centric model”. At least not how it was presented to us by Dan and Ron in that initial presser. I know fans were confused as well because they started claiming things like we’re doing it just like the Chiefs, 49ers and Bills. 
 

It’s just not.

 

I know that might seem like nitpicking or semantics, but I think it’s important to distinguish these models because it’s at the core of why people fall for the same marketing tool used by owners where a coaching change or one or two big player personnel moves pacifies the fans. 
 

It’s the same “Football Emperor” model Dan has employed with previous coaches (Schotty, Gibbs, Shanny, and now Rivera) that he does after his previous model where some unqualified personnel executive and coach tandem fails miserably. He literally implements the same pattern every single time without fail. 

In terms of models employed around the NFL with proven success, the Coach-centric models employed by the Bills, 49ers, and Chiefs are significantly different. What makes them “Coach-centric” is only that they hired the coach first or simultaneously with a GM, the Coach had major say in who the GM was, but the GM still was given power over the roster in the traditional manner. That is key to understand. If that’s how it ends up here then, yes, this is a great model to have and is one that follows the GM-centric traditional one with the only difference being that the Coach was hired first or had the ultimate say in who the GM was. But, structurally in terms of proper authority given over one’s respective department, it’s the same. 
 

Right now we’re like the Patriots. Bill Belichick isn’t operating in that kind of model, he IS the Football Emperor there. Final say over everything. This model essentially never works, unless you draft Tom Brady in the 6th round. The Patriots are pretty much the only team that has had sustained success employing this model with the Seahawks being another one, albeit to a much lesser degree since there are key differences with the way they do it. 
 

So if we do hire a legitimate GM, but Ron retains final say over the roster to, as you put it, essentially manage Dan... then the ONLY comparison we’d have to this model being successful would be the Seahawks. That’s it. Just one franchise. 😕 
 

That’s what is scary about this. There are so many more examples of this type of model failing miserably. We’d only have the Seahawks as a means of hope to say, hey, maybe it ends up just like them. 
 

I do think Rivera is similar to Caroll in that he’ll let his GM really do the work and be recognized for it like John Schneider is (Caroll essentially credits him with next to everything personnel-related, including hitting on Russel Wilson), so we have that at least. 
 

I just think it’s important to know these differences. And for fans to know that what you’re saying here isn’t necessarily a positive, and that it means Dan is STILL a major hindrance to success in that we have to settle for a model like this. 
 

Hopefully we don’t. Even better, hopefully  Dan is forced to sell and this nightmare of having to worry about who is “managing” him or whatever is over and the owner is actually a positive force in shaping the organization, not a total liability. 

[TSO]

3 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

When you say "devolving suddenly" what are you referring to? Gruden had this team pretty steadily between 7-9 and 9-7 until the bottom fell out in his final year. It was led by offense, for sure, but I actually remembering commenting to a few friends in 2016 and 2017 that at least we had steadied the ship a bit. It's a sad milestone, but I can't think of another 3-year run without double-digit losses under one coach since Norv. 

 

So, I agree that I wouldn't expect a bad season in the next couple years (10+ losses) but I also have been fooled many times with this team under Snyder's leadership. 

 
I feel bad for you, man, you’re fighting an impossible battle here.  

 

None of this matters to most fans. The magic coaching change is the most enticing thing in the world and owners/executives know it. The reality of sound organizational structures and principles being implemented is almost totally lost on fans and we have no idea how to judge it or judge those within it for the most part, so Ron the super awesome coach who can change everything with his assistant coaches and their magical schemes is a narrative just too damn tempting to not accept for most. We’re just annoying everyone saying anything else.  
 

The sad thing is, they’ll eventually turn on him just like every other coach that has come here. I mean, we briefly saw it with the Haskins stuff at the start of this year, which was a perfect microcosm of what Dan and his organizational corruption does to people. 
 

But, hey, maybe this time IS different. And that isn’t just based on blind hope. There are some legit differences this time around, like the people we have in the scouting department this time (Kyle Smith) and who we’re looking at to lead it (Cowden or Schoen hopefully), but the biggest of which is Dan’s legal issues and general public humiliation that might mean he’s kept at bay more easily than at any other time. 

[Skinsinparadise]

25 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

It’s the same “Football Emperor” model Dan has employed with previous coaches (Schotty, Gibbs, Shanny, and now Rivera) that he does after his previous model where some unqualified personnel executive and coach tandem fails miserably. He literally implements the same pattern every single time without fail. 

 

Agree.  I made that same point on a different thread.  My post wasn't directed to you per se.  There are others more vocal on the point who I've debated on this of late.  

 

Dan is a nightmare.   i am afraid of an intermediary because the odds that this person is co-opted is pretty good IMO.   I am doubling down on my point on that front after Finlay describing what he's heard about past regimes. 

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

Go into the Falcons and Chargers sites and read up on their profiles. 

 

lol, ok will do 😀

 

 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[88Comrade2000]

Given the past history, it's easy to be very skeptical about any more success. Gibbs, Gruden had their most successful season in year 2 of their tenure.  Shanny was year 3.  Rivera had a losing season but was able to make the playoffs, due to a weak NFC East.  If past history comes to form; we have already reached the peak of the Rivera era. 

 

I think things will be different.  As long as we get the right QB and fill in the holes; I am bullish.  Philly is in transition.  New York depends on whether Daniel Jones can develop further and not become a bust.  Dallas is probably the team that will be competition; if they resign Dak.  If we make the right moves, we can compete in this division and the NFL.

 

We will just have to wait and see.   Ron Rivera is the one in charge, he wouldn't have taken the job; if he wasn't.  Whatever GM we hire, is to help Ron out but the ultimate decision probably lies with Ron.  Will it work, will see.

 

I think the window is now and since Dan will be occupied with off the field issues; we may not have to worry about him interfering.  He'll be too busy defending himself and trying retain ownership.  Whether Dan is here long term or short term; is something that will not be answered quickly. If Dan is forced to sell; he will not go quietly.

 

I am going to enjoy the offseason and 2021.  Even if we don't make the playoffs in 21; we should be able to have a better record.

 

 

[TSO]

52 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Agree.  I made that same point on a different thread.  My post wasn't directed to you per se.  There are others more vocal on the point who I've debated on this of late.  

I know I know, and you know we pretty much agree on everything, lol, just wanted to clarify because of how easily people get mislead on this.  

[Andre The Giant]

 

[RWJ]

19 minutes ago, Andre The Giant said:

 

A friend speaking out for a friend.  Hmmm.  Just guessing the first known interview (Cowden).  It's his job to lose. 

[justice98]

3 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

 

I can't imagine Kyle Smith is long for this team with some of the people they're interviewing.  Rivera seemingly has no real interest in making Kyle the GM and then is interviewing people that do the same thing he does for GM and dont gave any GM experience either.  And this is after saying he wanted an experienced GM.  I'd be plotting my exit if I were him.

[goskins10]

 

 

3 hours ago, RWJ said:

New names coming up don't impress from Atl. and LA Chargers. 

 

3 hours ago, RWJ said:

Go into the Falcons and Chargers sites and read up on their profiles. 

 

Here is a short write up on JoJo - Seems like a solid candidate. This was from a list of the best GM candidates for 2021. What is missing that makes you say they you are not impressed? 

 

JoJo Wooden, Los Angeles Chargers Director of Player Personnel

JoJo Wooden has been a key part of Tom Telesco’s staff with the Chargers since they joined in 2013. Originally spending 16 years with the New York Jets as a Director of Pro Scouting and Assistant Director of Player Personnel until 2012, Wooden is in charge of the Chargers professional and collegiate scouting departments.

It’s hard to argue against Wooden’s performance in this role, as the Chargers have clearly excelled in this department during his tenure. The Chargers have added players like Joey Bosa, Keenan Allen, Jason Verrett, Desmond King, Derwin James, Hunter Henry, Justin Herbert, and Austin Ekeler through the collegiate ranks, while also signing players like Brian Bulaga, Chris Harris, and Casey Hayward in free agency. Wooden is another minority NFL GM candidate in 2021.

[goskins10]

3 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

 

 

 

It’s the same “Football Emperor” model Dan has employed with previous coaches (Schotty, Gibbs, Shanny, and now Rivera) that he does after his previous model where some unqualified personnel executive and coach tandem fails miserably. He literally implements the same pattern every single time without fail. 

In terms of models employed around the NFL with proven success, the Coach-centric models employed by the Bills, 49ers, and Chiefs are significantly different. What makes them “Coach-centric” is only that they hired the coach first or simultaneously with a GM, the Coach had major say in who the GM was, but the GM still was given power over the roster in the traditional manner. That is key to understand. If that’s how it ends up here then, yes, this is a great model to have and is one that follows the GM-centric traditional one with the only difference being that the Coach was hired first or had the ultimate say in who the GM was. But, structurally in terms of proper authority given over one’s respective department, it’s the same. 
 

Right now we’re like the Patriots. Bill Belichick isn’t operating in that kind of model, he IS the Football Emperor there. Final say over everything. This model essentially never works, unless you draft Tom Brady in the 6th round. The Patriots are pretty much the only team that has had sustained success employing this model with the Seahawks being another one, albeit to a much lesser degree since there are key differences with the way they do it. 
 

So if we do hire a legitimate GM, but Ron retains final say over the roster to, as you put it, essentially manage Dan... then the ONLY comparison we’d have to this model being successful would be the Seahawks. That’s it. Just one franchise. 😕 
 

That’s what is scary about this. There are so many more examples of this type

of model failing miserably. We’d only have the Seahawks as a means of hope to

say, hey, maybe it ends up just like them. 
 

I do think Rivera is similar to Caroll in that he’ll let his GM really do the work and be recognized for it like John Schneider is (Caroll essentially credits him with next to everything personnel-related, including hitting on Russel Wilson), so we have that at least. 
 

I just think it’s important to know these differences. And for fans to know that what you’re saying here isn’t necessarily a positive, and that it means Dan is STILL a major hindrance to success in that we have to settle for a model like this. 
 

Hopefully we don’t. Even better, hopefully  Dan is forced to sell and this nightmare of having to worry about who is “managing” him or whatever is over and the owner is actually a positive force in shaping the organization, not a total liability. 

 

Nice to have a TSO sighting! Welcome to 2021!  

 

With all respect to @Skinsinparadise I agree that a "coach" centric model that includes Ron as final decision maker on roster seems destined to failure (but I do have a glimmer of hope. more below). This leaves Dan too close to the decision making process. In the past I believe he stays out of it in the beginning- well sort of - but ultimately cannot help getting in the way. 

 

So while they are talking about GMs, unless it's a true GM I will be a bit disappointed. The only reason I will hold out some hope for success, is with Ron's quick success and Dan's off the field issues, it may keep Dan from getting out of his lane of writing checks. And I do agree with SIP that Ron is not as ego centric so there is more chance that he will listen to the scouts. But it still seems set up for failure. 

 

Our best hope is for Dan to get forced out. Who knows, maybe this is year we get lucky. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by goskins10

[Andre The Giant]

26 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

 

 

Here is a short write up on JoJo - Seems like a solid candidate. This was from a list of the best GM candidates for 2021. What is missing that makes you say they you are not impressed? 

 

JoJo Wooden, Los Angeles Chargers Director of Player Personnel

JoJo Wooden has been a key part of Tom Telesco’s staff with the Chargers since they joined in 2013. Originally spending 16 years with the New York Jets as a Director of Pro Scouting and Assistant Director of Player Personnel until 2012, Wooden is in charge of the Chargers professional and collegiate scouting departments.

It’s hard to argue against Wooden’s performance in this role, as the Chargers have clearly excelled in this department during his tenure. The Chargers have added players like Joey Bosa, Keenan Allen, Jason Verrett, Desmond King, Derwin James, Hunter Henry, Justin Herbert, and Austin Ekeler through the collegiate ranks, while also signing players like Brian Bulaga, Chris Harris, and Casey Hayward in free agency. Wooden is another minority NFL GM candidate in 2021.

i don’t see the connection between JoJo and Ron, and we all know how Ron likes familiarity.  That said, the Chargers do have good personnel.  He’s an interesting candidate. 

[Riggo#44]

51 minutes ago, justice98 said:

 

I can't imagine Kyle Smith is long for this team with some of the people they're interviewing.  Rivera seemingly has no real interest in making Kyle the GM and then is interviewing people that do the same thing he does for GM and dont gave any GM experience either.  And this is after saying he wanted an experienced GM.  I'd be plotting my exit if I were him.

Nobody is interested in making Kyle GM right now.

[Riggo#44]

2 hours ago, thesubmittedone said:

None of this matters to most fans. The magic coaching change is the most enticing thing in the world and owners/executives know it.

 

 

Only caveat I'd add: Cerrato and Allen were Snyder hires. It seems this is Rivera's show--and it looks like its a collaborative effort, its not the Marty/Shanny show. 

 

And all of us are aware, this can, and probably will blow up as soon as Snyder stops suing people and starts to want to have fun again. But the approach right now is a smidgen different. The presence of people like Jason Wright instead of Allen or Cerrato is at least a move in the right direction.

Edited January 15, 2021 by Riggo#44

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Nice to have a TSO sighting! Welcome to 2021!  

 

With all respect to @Skinsinparadise I agree that a "coach" centric model that includes Ron as final decision maker on roster seems destined to failure (but I do have a glimmer of hope. more below). This leaves Dan too close to the decision making process. In the past I believe he stays out of it in the beginning- well sort of - but ultimately cannot help getting in the way. 

 

So while they are talking about GMs, unless it's a true GM I will be a bit disappointed. The only reason I will hold out some hope for success, is with Ron's quick success and Dan's off the field issues, it may keep Dan from getting out of his lane of writing checks. And I do agree with SIP that Ron is not as ego centric so there is more chance that he will listen to the scouts. But it still seems set up for failure. 

 

Our best hope is for Dan to get forced out. Who knows, maybe this is year we get lucky. 

 

Unfortunately I fear the only real long terms solution is getting rid of 

 

Dan being bolted out is my top desire by a mile and that would be an understatement. 

 

I could be talked into a strong GM couldn't be co-opted by Dan but its not where I lean.  I believe that Bruce and Vinny (as incompetent as both were) were more symptoms of the disease than being the actual disease where constant socializing with Dan leads to self preservation and about winning office politics.  I've seen really good people who are good at what they do still succumb to this in smaller forms (the instinct for self-preservation I find to be strong) via the various jobs I've worked at.    That's just a guess on my end based on the reports I've seen over the years about Dan and what's transpired.  I think Gibbs managed Dan well.  I suspect that Rivera likewise has the people skills and integrity to manage Dan, too.  Will see.

 

I have a hard time acting like we have a normal owner and in turn supporting a normal structure that succeeds in normal circumstances.  I don't think we have a normal circumstance.  I am not saying you or anyone else is saying otherwise.  Just saying Dan's abormailities is heavy in the soup as for what I think about this.  It drives my thinking.  

 

And even if I went 100% into a GM centric model here, I don't think we'd have landed Rivera that way.   I think we outkicked our coverage.  Rivera to me is the closest we've had as a leader and character to Gibbs.  I think you also need someone like that to mitigate or overcome Dan's sleazy instincts.   This organization was at a really low place when they were doing this hire.  Heck some beat guys thought that Bruce might have even survived if Rivera didn't push him out behind the scenes.  One reporter (forgetting whom right now) said that they heard that Dan tried to convince Rivera to keep Bruce around in some capacity.   National reporters were surprised Dan landed Rivera, they figured his reputation was at an all time low and would in turn have to get a third tier type of candidate. 

 

I think we got to thank Rivera a lot for his emphaisis on culture change and basically overhauling quite a bit.   He got rid of Dan's minions, changed the medical staff among other things.  it was clear he wanted to rid the organizations of any of Dan's close pals/enablers.  I am not so sure that would have happened if it weren't him taking this job.  He's not the perfect coach but in my view the type we need in particular with the owner we got. 

Edited January 15, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[Riggo#44]

We have some pirated video of Snyder's interview with Rivera! This is amazing stuff: