A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

11 minutes ago, actorguy1 said:

Russell on his podcast brought up the idea that Rivera needs a GM who is comfortable working  predominantly on the administrative duties for the team so Rivera can be free to concentrate more on coaching and team building.  Some of these candidates are more "personnel " guys with limited history of real GM (admin) duties.

 

I've heard that and also heard someone who can help build the culture in the building.

 

I cited Scot in one of my posts on this thread on that point.  Yeah I get it was a mixed bag here for various reasons with him.  But I could see part of his prowess was his personality and ability to bond with players.  Cowden by one person is described like that.  I get the impression Kyle Smith is more introverted.  

[Bunny Kelly]

I think it can be linked to the evolution of Kyle Shanahan as coach, when here he was clearly smart but supposedly a crap human being, his few stops along the way prob helped him  become more relatable as a person & a better coach.

 

Being right isn't enough, you need to be relate to people to get them to listen; dare I saw it is one of Ron's greatest strength's, he may not get everything right but his people skills appear 10/10. Kyle Smith may make a great GM some day but it would definitely appear something is missing now

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

JP Finlay said that Ryan Cowden from the Titans is so far the front runner.

 

Titans drafting has been hit and miss, who knows who much Cowden had a say in it.

 

2019 and 2016 were good to great drafts.

2018 was ok for how few picks were used.

2017 was rough.

2020 looks awful.

 

If it's Cowden, I hope Kyle Smith still has a lot of say with how the drafts are done.

[JoggingGod]

12 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

JP Finlay said that Ryan Cowden from the Titans is so far the front runner.

 

Titans drafting has been hit and miss, who knows who much Cowden had a say in it.

 

2019 and 2016 were good to great drafts.

2018 was ok for how few picks were used.

2017 was rough.

2020 looks awful.

 

If it's Cowden, I hope Kyle Smith still has a lot of say with how the drafts are done.

2017 wasn’t that rough. Davis and Adoree are at least solid and Jonnu and Jayon Brown are pretty good.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[JoggingGod]

Don’t forget that the Titans got Tannehill for a 4th rounder essentially, and were able to sign him to a fairly reasonable contract. Huge pro talent evaluation move.

[KDawg]

Cowden would be a tremendous get.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Commander -JB-]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've heard that and also heard someone who can help build the culture in the building.

 

I cited Scot in one of my posts on this thread on that point.  Yeah I get it was a mixed bag here for various reasons with him.  But I could see part of his prowess was his personality and ability to bond with players.  Cowden by one person is described like that.  I get the impression Kyle Smith is more introverted.  

He bonded with players because he’d sip on the Henny with them 😭🤣

[method man]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

Isaiah Wilson was a terrible pick. Alarming they didn’t pick up on his character issues before the draft

[88Comrade2000]

Ron is the one with all the power, he wouldn't have taken this job without.   After an up and down and up year, Ron now knows what this team needs to be successful.

 

#1a on that list, is getting him a GM.  He has decided Kyle doesn't fit for what he wants his GM to be.  Ron will fill the GM position, with the person who best fits what he wants from a GM.  Whether that will be a good hire, we will have to just wait and see.

#1b on that list, is getting a starting QB.   My gut says, Ron probably feels we don't have that QB on the roster.  Alex is done and if he doesn't retire, Ron will cut him. Taylor may get himself a contract, but 5 quarters doesn't give one the starting job. He may get a shot in training camp for that starting job.  Kyle is nothing more than a backup.  I do think we acquire a veteran to be the starter and we draft a QB in 21 or 22; to groom be the eventual successor to the veteran.

 

This is Snyder's last chance.  IF the Rivera era fails, Snyder won't get anymore chances. Especially, if the that failure is due to Dan interfering.  Dan will just bleed more fans to where; he will only have 2500- 5000 in attendance that are actual fans of the team.  If they are more fans in attendance,  it will be fans of other teams.  Failure of the Rivera era, means most of the remaining fans will leave.  Noone will really care anymore.  So, Rivera must have a successful tenure here without interference from Dan.

 

We'll see what happens on that front.  We know Dan's history.  I think it will be different this time.  #1- Because this is Dan's last chance.  #2- Dan will be preoccupied with the off the field stuff, which could see him being forced to sell.  #3- Ron won't put up with Dan interfering.  Dan does, he will just walk.  Ron knows, he will get another job on the spot and people will know he walked because of the owner. 

 

[bowhunter]

Last year when Ron was hired, he mentioned that the FO needs to stay intact between then and the draft.  If there is going to be a hire, I would expect it to be done sooner rather than later.

[joeken24]

The Redskins has never drafted a franchise QB. I suppose you could say RGIII and #8 could have been, had they not been surrounded by morons. If WFT can find a GM that has an eye for QBs, I'm good. Of course he'll need to have an eye for other positions. But Ron and Jack knows defense. We only need two or three positions on offense (TE and WR). I'd say lineman, but I'm hoping Saahdiq comes by healthy and ready to play good football next year (and maybe Geron makes a jump). My thought would be TE and WR comes by way of FA. So this GMs main job is going to be finding a franchise QB. 

[TSO]

13 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

In the model you support here (correct me if I am wrong), Dan would hire the GM.  The GM would hire the coach.  The coach works for the GM. The hierarchy is Dan-GM-Coach.  The fundamental difference we have is I want a GM who feels beholden to the coach not Dan. 

This is what I’ve been trying to correct, actually. You’re fault, you said to correct you if you’re wrong so now I have to, lol. 😛 

 

The majority of “Coach-centric” models around the league and, in fact, the recent successful ones that have essentially created that buzz word in the Niners, Bills, and Chiefs are NOT ones in which the Head Coach ends up with final say over the roster. This is arguably the largest point I’m trying to make. So many people make this mistake. Dan tried to hijack that buzz word and claim he’s implementing that model, but he only implemented his “HC as Football emperor” model (the same one he always implements after a failed stint with one of his unqualified executives leading the show or are working in tandem with the Coach in some convoluted and vague structure none of us can understand or grasp).

 

The above “coach-centric” models end up with a qualified GM that has power over the roster. They’re not labeled “coach-centric” because they take that away. 
 

The traditional one in which a GM is hired first and then everything goes through him is fine by me, as well, and has been traditionally the most conducive to success around the league, though the “coach-centric” model as implemented above is quickly gaining ground on it. Either way, we’ve never had that implemented here (either the GM or Coach-centric model) where someone actually qualified gets that GM position and has the authority to implement his vision. I think the arguments about personality and managing Dan STILL would apply to those models, but that’s not the key point I’m making and I feel like I’m not getting that across well enough. 
 

So it’s important to know that the actual “coach-centric” models everyone has been raving about recently were only that because the coach was hired first, he had a major say in who the GM would be, but then they are made to be equals in rank with both having autonomy over their respective departments. That isn’t what happened last offseason, though we’re inching closer to it currently and that has me excited. To me, that would be the best model to end up with (I’m rooting hard for it, though I get it’s unlikely Ron gives up his power over the roster - just that power, not at an actual “reporting to” and having his job on the line with level) and most of your arguments would still apply in terms of managing Dan. It’d actually be better, in my opinion, because that’d mean you have two guys loyal to each other and both of their jobs even more tied to their hips than normal in order to keep Dan at bay.
 

Another key point I’m making is that I feel the reality of “keeping Dan at bay” or “handling Dan” is a fool’s errand and I highly doubt it’s even possible, so choosing a lesser model (HC as Football Emperor) that almost ALWAYS fails at the pro level based on an attempt to “handle Dan” just doesn’t make me feel better.

 

All I want is to see, for once, qualified hires given the authority their titles need to fulfill those roles without unwarranted interference. I’m so tired of having to justify why we can’t be normal. I just want to see it ONCE before I say it won’t work here. I mean, let’s be honest, it’s likely NOTHING will work here in a sustained manner because of Dan. But I just want to try what has proven to be most conducive to success around the league once and not have to hope we’ll be an exception like always. I’m just done with that. 
 

Does that help? 

Edited January 17, 2021 by thesubmittedone

[TSO]

12 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I love the idea of ganging up on Dan with another person.  But if Rivera doesn't want to give that final GM authority over him, that's fine with me.  I'd prefer it the other way, too but it would be somewhat strange.  Rivera says I want to hire you but now you are my boss.  That stuff doesn't happen.   

So I see the disconnect here. That’s not what would happen and that’s not what I’m advocating. The GM wouldn’t be his boss, he’d be his equal. This is what the Bills, Niners and Chiefs have going on. It would actually be a “Coach-centric” model that has proven to be successful multiple times if that happens and we still get the proper authority given to each side to fulfill their roles without unwarranted interference. We’d have the delicious simplicity of qualified hires having autonomy over their respective departments. Imagine that! 

[RWJ]

7 minutes ago, thesubmittedone said:

So I see the disconnect here. That’s not what would happen and that’s not what I’m advocating. The GM wouldn’t be his boss, he’d be his equal. This is what the Bills, Niners and Chiefs have going on. It would actually be a “Coach-centric” model that has proven to be successful multiple times if that happens and we still get the proper authority given to each side to fulfill their roles without unwarranted interference. We’d have the delicious simplicity of qualified hires having autonomy over their respective departments. Imagine that! 

If will be interesting to see IF the Bill lose if Joh Schoen gets a call to interview.

[boston skins fan]

11 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been a fan of Kyle Smith for a long time even before it was cool to do so.   I get the impression that Rivera sees the GM spot like this:

 

A.  A partner in helping establishing the culture.  A liason with the players, alumini, people in the building, Dan, and the media so its not all on Ron's plate.  And Ron is looking for a dude with super people skills and are outgoing.

 

B.  Adminstrating the team so all the trains run on time

 

C.  Player selection.

 

Ron has said now a number of times there is more to the GM spot than meets the eye.  In various ways the points above have been made by him or others who cover the team saying what impression they are getting.

 

My best guess is Kyle is all about C.  And not so much B and A.  I think A is a function of his personality.  From what I've heard, he's a likable guy but he's not the most outgoing and in turn not so much the interactive culture building type contributes to morale.  And I gather he's inexperienced in adminstration.  He likes to pick players.  And Ron wants more than someone that picks players.  And considering Stokes is getting an interview I am gathering two things about that.  1.  he has more of those general skills than Kyle.  2.  Rivera has touted his scouting ability and thinks he can pick players well, too.

 

I like Kyle a lot but I am not going to lose it if he leaves assuming they build a FO with other good people.

 

DING DING DING DING you hit the nail on the money.

 

Kyle Smith is by all accounts is a pheonminal at player selection but from what ive read he hasnt handled much if any of the admin and might not be the people person that RR is looking for.

 

Being an AGM Cowden probably assisted in the admin work as has Stokes.

Mayhew was a GM and has definately done the admin work.

 

Everyone interviewed has most likely done some of the GM Admin work as for people skills not sure.  Rivera is probably aware if he hires from the outside it will piss off Smith so he needs to be sure that his new GM has a past of selecting players for when smith leaves.  For as much as i like smith im ok with it because Rivera is building a synergestic relationship with all departments and if that helps us win Im fine with Smith leaving.  If we get Schoen or Cowden even better.

51 minutes ago, RWJ said:

If will be interesting to see IF the Bill lose if Joh Schoen gets a call to interview.

 

Ya were gonna have to wait i have a feeling theyre gonna beat the Chiefs.

[RWJ]

20 minutes ago, boston skins fan said:

 

Ya were gonna have to wait i have a feeling theyre gonna beat the Chiefs.

Looks like it BSF. 

[RWJ]

So Bill's GM Beane and RR are close from their days in Carolina.  Joe Schoen is Beane's right hand man and know I focus my attention to Joe Schoen as our new GM.  RR has or is going to interview WFT Eric Stokes who worked with Joe Schoen in Miami and knows him well.  Is RR not only interviewing Stokes but also trying to find out what other information he can from Stokes about Joe Schoen along with the information and pipeline RR has with Beane.  Cowden and Joe Schoen might be the top two candidates and I'd put Joe Schoen slightly ahead of Cowden.  Funny how Carolina interviewed Joe Schoen and bypassed him to take the Seattle's AGM.  Maybe Joe Schoen turned down the job because he's gonna take the position with the WFT and RR.  Merely speculation on my part.  Remarks welcomed. 

[Warhead36]

I'd be fine with Cowden. I wouldn't nit pick and cherry pick on each and every draft pick though, you can do that with almost any team and find a lot more misses than hits. Its all about process and culture fit.

[Lovi]

I’m not at all impressed with the Titans draft picks in the last 5 years. We’ve had much better drafts in my opinion. Hard for me to get behind a GM hire that’s had in my opinion worse drafts than ours. It would be nice to get an admin guy but still let Smith handle the draft

[Rex Tomb]

Pay Kyle Smith whatever you need to in order to keep him here as head of our drafts and college scouting.  Best player selection we've had since I can remember.

[JoggingGod]

34 minutes ago, Lovi said:

We’ve had much better drafts in my opinion

Is that a joke? Compare the records of the two teams the past 5 years and get back to me.

[veteranskinsfan]

I want Kyle Smith to stay.  If they give him autonomy and money he could stay but he could also decide to leave at some point.  Ron has brought in

a lot of Carolina people and if they bring in a former Carolina GM then if I were Kyle I would exit stage left and thank Ron the for good memories of this season.

I really hope there is a way to keep him but I think it could be a 50-50 chance whether he stays or goes.  I am not just talking about staying one more year.

My goal would be to keep him for the long term at least for the next 4-5 years.   Every talent evaluator cannot hit on every pick.  In 2017, Howie Roseman hit

several home run draft picks that eventually led to a Super Bowl run.  But once his sidekick Joe Douglas left the front office his picks in subsequent years were dismal and hence the Eagles lousy record this year.  Eagles news media is finally starting to realize what happened and are finally reporting on it.

[profusion]

As long as Rivera's choice works well with him and helps build the culture, I'm good. Scouting isn't done by just a single person--the department needs to be good from top to bottom, and the scouts need to be listened to (i.e., not drafting guys with fancy combine numbers or who went to the right school).