A New Start! (the Reboot) The Front Office, Ownership, & Coaching Staff Thread

[RWJ]

10 minutes ago, boston skins fan said:

 

Been doing some research on Cowden.  Seems like he could be a good get.  credited as on of the architects of the Panthers team that went to the super bowl in 15 and as one of the major architects in the current Titans FO that has a solid team.  He looks to be kyle smith with more experience.

 

Would not be upset with him.  Hurney as a senior assistant to help out cowden.  Cowden as gm and Smith as AGM working and learning under Cowden would be a fantastic structure.

If we could have that I'd be happy but it would mean we'd see Smith leave at some point in time.  I'd rather it be the other way around but having Smith as our AGM would make me happy! 

[boston skins fan]

14 minutes ago, RWJ said:

If we could have that I'd be happy but it would mean we'd see Smith leave at some point in time.  I'd rather it be the other way around but having Smith as our AGM would make me happy! 

 

We need a GM now and smith is not ready.  If you are a good team you will lose talented coaches and FO personnel.  Its the nature of the game.  Id rather have Cowden (like i said what smith could be in a few yrs) now then let smith learn on the job.  If this team is successful under Cowden with smith as his AGM then its a win win.  The team is winning and Smith will be a GM else where.  Its the way it works in sports.

 

Atleast theyre looking to snipe up and coming talent from other teams vs just the ole boys club retreads.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

23 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

A couple of things here. Jay Gruden never won more than 9 games--his defenses never ranked higher than 17th--and that was the year we started getting gashed by terrible running games (like 27th ATL running for 150-something) and Mansucky had no answer. He routinely hired (either he or Allen, both are gone so...) awful coordinators. He got to mediocre, but terrible defenses always held those teams back. After years of terrible coordinators, Rivera has one of the best staffs in the league on both sides of the ball. He made the most of the defense this year, FINALLY. We have holes so a 6-8 win team is not out of the question--but it will be a more legitimate 6-8 win team, if that makes sense. We started to see it against Pittsburgh, Seattle, and Tampa. We challenged and played with better teams, while beating the teams we should...except the ****ing Giants. 

I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but let's try something with your case above...it's very possible we could say:

 

"Ron Rivera lost 10 out of 17 games --his offense was putrid all year with all 4 QBs who saw the field. He is approaching mediocre, but terrible offense and a defense that disappeared during big spots held this teams back. Gruden had seasons with some great offensive play and proved time and again that he could scheme people open in the passing game.  His teams won a huge primetime games vs. Green Bay, won on the road in Seattle, and won a win-or-go-home game in Philly to clinch the division. We challenged and played with better teams, while beating the teams we should...except the ****ing Giants (in 2016)."

[JoggingGod]

4 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

Gruden had seasons with some great offensive play and proved time and again that he could scheme people open in the passing game

He didn’t do this when Kirk DJax and Garçon were gone. Scott is doing a better job scheming inferior talent (outside of Terry) open right now 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

12 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

He didn’t do this when Kirk DJax and Garçon were gone. Scott is doing a better job scheming inferior talent (outside of Terry) open right now 

 

Is he? They were 30th in the league in total offense.

 

Look I don't want to be Debbie Downer...I'm just saying that this is probably the 6th or 7th "this time is different" iteration since Snyder has been here. I'm not saying people won't be right this time, but there were legitimately reasonable expectations each of the other times and they never materialized. 

[Skinsinparadise]

Finlay just now explained it well on 980.

 

With Dan:

 

A.  It helps to have a coach who is good at keeping Dan in the loop while they do what they want.  Rivera he thinks is good at this.  Others said Gibbs was masterful at it.  You make Dan feel vested in the idea whatever it is. 

 

B.  The problem with a GMs in the past (Bruce and Cerrato) is they go into self preservation mode and tell Dan what he wants to hear and or cater to him and survive in part by feeding into the wedge between Dan the coach when things go amiss.

 

There is an upside that Ron is talking to Dan without third party interference and with that third party interference in the past often being Dan's echo chamber. 

 

It's a good explanation for why i do think with THIS organization the coach centric model might be the best if you have the right coach in charge.  Ron doesn't fancy himself as the defacto head scout like for example Shanny supposedly did.  Rivera seems to listen to people in that building versus ruling everything like a Julius Ceasar.  

 

I am all in for the GM centric model in general.  But I don't trust Dan and by extension human nature of the typical executive who would have a natural instinct for self preservation.  In other words, it would be self serving for the GM in the building to agree with Dan and side with him behind the scenes on disagreements with the head coach and would be inclined to pile on to the scapegoating versus repel it.

 

I do think with the wrong coach this could be a disaster.  But like Joe Gibbs, Rivera seems to be a natural leader with integrity and has the people skills perhaps to manage Dan. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

25 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Finlay just now explained it well on 980.

 

With Dan:

 

A.  It helps to have a coach who is good at keeping Dan in the loop while they do what you want.  Rivera he thinks is good at this.  Others said Gibbs was masterful at it.  You make Dan feel vested in the idea whatever it is. 

 

B.  The problem with a GMs in the past (Bruce and Cerrato) is they go into self preservation mode and tell Dan what he wants to hear and or cater to him and survive in by feeding into the wedge between Dan the coach when things go amiss.

 

There is an upside that Ron is talking to Dan without third party interference and with that third party interference in the past often being Dan's echo chamber. 

 

It's a good explanation for why i do think with THIS organization the coach centric model might be the best if you have the right coach in charge.  Ron doesn't fancy himself as the defacto head scout like for example Shanny supposedly did.  Rivera seems to listen to people in that building versus ruling everything like a Julius Ceasar.  

 

I am all in for the GM centric model in general.  But I don't trust Dan and by extension human nature of the typical exuective who would have a natural instinct for self preservation.  In other words, it would be self serving for the GM in the building to agree with Dan and side with him behind the scenes on disagreements with the head coach and would be inclined to pile on to the scapegoating versus repel it.

 

I do think with the wrong coach this could be a disaster.  But like Joe Gibbs, Rivera seems to be a natural leader with integrity and has the people skills perhaps to manage Dan. 

JP thinks that Cowden has the edge and will be the new GM.  It's still early.  

Just now, RWJ said:

JP thinks that Cowden has the edge and will be the new GM.  It's still early.   As someone on the board posted giving Smith AGM would be a smooth move too.  Everyone happy.  

 

[Skinsinparadise]

14 minutes ago, RWJ said:

JP thinks that Cowden has the edge and will be the new GM.  It's still early.  

 

 

Yes because of Cowden's relationship with Ron Rogers.  I hope he's right.  You got me if Cowden is the right guy.  But I've clamored for a long time for having one of the hot names for this spot.  He fits that profile.  I also wanted one with a strong background in scouting.  He has that too. 

Edited January 13, 2021 by Skinsinparadise

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yes because of Cowden's relationship with Ron Rogers.  I hope he's right.  You got me if Cowden is the right guy.  But I've clamored for a long time for having one of the hot names for this spot.  He fits that profile.  I also wanted one with a strong background in scouting.  He has that too. 

I can live with that but I would like to see Smith given the title of AGM.  

[Skinsinparadise]

Just now, RWJ said:

I can live with that but I would like to see Smith given the title of AGM.  

 

I've been a big Kyle Smith fan for eons.  But if Rivera brings Cowden or Schoen (who deserved or not are bigger names than Kyle Smith) I am not going to be that upset if Kyle moves on.   I got no problem if Ron wants to work with people he feels like he has good chemistry with as long as those people are good. 

[RWJ]

1 minute ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been a big Kyle Smith fan for eons.  But if Rivera brings Cowden or Schoen (who deserved or not are bigger names than Kyle Smith) I am not going to be that upset if Kyle moves on.   I got no problem if Ron wants to work with people he feels like he has good chemistry with as long as those people are good. 

I respect your opinion but I think Kyle Smith is the next McVay when it comes to GMs.  Hoping the new hire amounts to the next McVay in talents of GM.  

[Riggo#44]

14 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

I'm not saying I agree or disagree, but let's try something with your case above...it's very possible we could say:

 

"Ron Rivera lost 10 out of 17 games --his offense was putrid all year with all 4 QBs who saw the field. He is approaching mediocre, but terrible offense and a defense that disappeared during big spots held this teams back. Gruden had seasons with some great offensive play and proved time and again that he could scheme people open in the passing game.  His teams won a huge primetime games vs. Green Bay, won on the road in Seattle, and won a win-or-go-home game in Philly to clinch the division. We challenged and played with better teams, while beating the teams we should...except the ****ing Giants (in 2016)."

 

You're absolutely right--we might fall right back onto our faces, Danny interfering again--picking ****ty QBs and insisting they start. However, the players never said the things about Gruden that they say about Rivera. There was never the defense. And most importantly, there is no Bruce Allen.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, RWJ said:

I respect your opinion but I think Kyle Smith is the next McVay when it comes to GMs.  Hoping the new hire amounts to the next McVay in talents of GM.  

 

He could be.  I guess listening to different accounts about this in the context of Kyle.  The GM job isn't just about picking players but also about being a liason with players, helping establish culture in the building (not just with players but everyone) and performing many adminstration tasks.  I get the impression that this part isn't Kyle's niche just yet. 

 

To me Rivera is more important than Kyle as for changing the culture of the team.   So if he isn't infatuated with Kyle for whatever reason and replaces him with a more highly regarded name which would be the case if its Cowden or Schoen, I won't cry over it.  If its Mayhew or Hurney, I wouldn't love it.  

 

 

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, RWJ said:

I have read some WFT beat reporters, forget who on twitters saying Hurney could be brought in as a Senior non GM and Cowden as GM.  Take it as a grain of salt for now.

Cowden to sort the playing side out, Hurney to manage all the admin and operations crap.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

26 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

You're absolutely right--we might fall right back onto our faces, Danny interfering again--picking ****ty QBs and insisting they start. However, the players never said the things about Gruden that they say about Rivera. There was never the defense. And most importantly, there is no Bruce Allen.

 

I'd even go as far as to say that the team WILL fall back from this year. It's been proven over two decades that Snyder's teams never build off of any success. I can't tell you if the defense will regress, if the offense will stay putrid, or what...but there are plenty of data points to show that the team will trend down in 2021. 

 

1999 10-6 was followed by 8-8

2005 10-6 was followed by 5-11

2007 9-7 was followed by 8-8 (finishing 2-6)

2012 10-6 was followed by 3-13

2015 10-6 was followed by 8-7-1 (that's the BEST follow-up season this team has had under Snyder)

 

And all of those teams (outside of 2007 which was running on fumes/emotion and about to lose its coach) had reasons to be optimistic and believe that the Redskins were ascending. 

[Riggo#44]

2 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I'd even go as far as to say that the team WILL fall back from this year. It's been proven over two decades that Snyder's teams never build off of any success. I can't tell you if the defense will regress, if the offense will stay putrid, or what...but there are plenty of data points to show that the team will trend down in 2021. 

 

1999 10-6 was followed by 8-8

2005 10-6 was followed by 5-11

2007 9-7 was followed by 8-8 (finishing 2-6)

2012 10-6 was followed by 3-13

2015 10-6 was followed by 8-7-1 (that's the BEST follow-up season this team has had under Snyder)

 

And all of those teams (outside of 2007 which was running on fumes/emotion and about to lose its coach) had reasons to be optimistic and believe that the Redskins were ascending. 

 

You're not wrong. It wouldn't surprise me in the least--we've been here before. 6-8 wins, given our schedule and the inevitable improvement in the division would not be that bad. But, here are the nuances that I don't see this year:

 

2000: Hog wild in Free Agency. Prime Maverick Interfering Snyder. Insisted on George, made life miserable on Turner (who wasn't a great coach anyway). But we also lost Raymer, Tre, and Westbrook to season ending injuries. No depth because of Vinny Cerrato's incompetence.

2006: Hog wild in Free Agency. Injuries and regression--offense went to total ****. Cerrato's incompetence.

2008: Zorn and no one wanted to work with Cerrato and Snyder. No other explanation.

2013: Shanahan vs. Snyder and Allen. Insisting RGIII play. Cousins wasn't very good either. The cap hit killed us. Little did we know what was going on behind the scenes.

2016: ****ty defense undid us here because Allen/Gruden refused to hire a DC. Drama with McCloughan. If we had hired Phillips over Barry? So much bull**** behind the scenes.

 

So common threads? Terrible management, Snyder interference, back-door politics, in short, rotten culture. Now, it appears that Rivera has that heading in the right direction. How long can we keep Snyder at bay? Who will be the GM? Rivera is the best coach we've had since Gibbs I, I think. Gibbs II had Cerrato and the game had passed Gibbs by at that point--the 2006 offseason was one of the worst we've ever had. We'll see.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

You're not wrong. It wouldn't surprise me in the least--we've been here before. 6-8 wins, given our schedule and the inevitable improvement in the division would not be that bad. But, here are the nuances that I don't see this year:

 

2000: Hog wild in Free Agency. Prime Maverick Interfering Snyder. Insisted on George, made life miserable on Turner (who wasn't a great coach anyway). But we also lost Raymer, Tre, and Westbrook to season ending injuries. No depth because of Vinny Cerrato's incompetence.

2006: Hog wild in Free Agency. Injuries and regression--offense went to total ****. Cerrato's incompetence.

2008: Zorn and no one wanted to work with Cerrato and Snyder. No other explanation.

2013: Shanahan vs. Snyder and Allen. Insisting RGIII play. Cousins wasn't very good either. The cap hit killed us. Little did we know what was going on behind the scenes.

2016: ****ty defense undid us here because Allen/Gruden refused to hire a DC. Drama with McCloughan. If we had hired Phillips over Barry? So much bull**** behind the scenes.

 

So common threads? Terrible management, Snyder interference, back-door politics, in short, rotten culture. Now, it appears that Rivera has that heading in the right direction. How long can we keep Snyder at bay? Who will be the GM? Rivera is the best coach we've had since Gibbs I, I think. Gibbs II had Cerrato and the game had passed Gibbs by at that point--the 2006 offseason was one of the worst we've ever had. We'll see.

 

I could drill down deeper into each year (for example, I actually believe the 2000 team would have been horrible IF NOT for the defensive additions in FA), but I see your primary points. And, you could be right that all of that is magically fixed this time. I think Rivera is a perfectly good coach, but I can't say that he's anything better than Marty in 2000, Gibbs in the mid-2000s, or Shanahan in 2010. We will see though. 

 

As you say, a lot of it will come down to Snyder. I hope he's forced out so that there's some real hope and eventually an EXPECTATION that promising young teams will get better. W

[Commander -JB-]

54 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I'd even go as far as to say that the team WILL fall back from this year. It's been proven over two decades that Snyder's teams never build off of any success. I can't tell you if the defense will regress, if the offense will stay putrid, or what...but there are plenty of data points to show that the team will trend down in 2021. 

 

1999 10-6 was followed by 8-8

2005 10-6 was followed by 5-11

2007 9-7 was followed by 8-8 (finishing 2-6)

2012 10-6 was followed by 3-13

2015 10-6 was followed by 8-7-1 (that's the BEST follow-up season this team has had under Snyder)

 

And all of those teams (outside of 2007 which was running on fumes/emotion and about to lose its coach) had reasons to be optimistic and believe that the Redskins were ascending. 

I’ll say this.  The difference between 2015 making the playoffs and then regressing in 2016 you have to remember that they absolutely whiffed on their first two picks of the  2016 draft with Doctson/Cravens.  They’ve been nailing SOME draft picks the last two drafts (obviously whiffed with Haskins selection but if Heinicke turns into a good pro it softens that blow.  Also, the Montez Sweat pick made up for the first miss even tho we had to deal two 2nd rounders) so I’d assume further improvement provided they don’t completely botch the 2021 draft.  We have 4 picks in the first 3 rounds.  Real chance to make a leap.  For years and years the Redskins were notoriously horrible in the draft. Sure, they hit on some guys here or there but they were wildly inconsistent with no real direction or plan.  Things do seem to be moving in the right direction here the past two years.  But with saying that, we had enough misses in the past two drafts that I am absolutely on board with hiring a GM from outside of the organization and keeping Kyle Smith in his current role.  I don’t think he has done enough to warrant a promotion to GM.  I think we need to truly establish an identity & continue to build the culture so can finally have some real direction.

Edited January 13, 2021 by -JB-

[Riggo#44]

18 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

I could drill down deeper into each year (for example, I actually believe the 2000 team would have been horrible IF NOT for the defensive additions in FA), but I see your primary points. And, you could be right that all of that is magically fixed this time. I think Rivera is a perfectly good coach, but I can't say that he's anything better than Marty in 2000, Gibbs in the mid-2000s, or Shanahan in 2010. We will see though. 

 

As you say, a lot of it will come down to Snyder. I hope he's forced out so that there's some real hope and eventually an EXPECTATION that promising young teams will get better. W

Actually, if I had to pick any of those situations, we are most like Marty in 2000. We were 8-8 after starting 0-5, had John Schneider in the front office. Snyder fires everyone, brings back Cerrato, and on we went with the same cycle.

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Actually, if I had to pick any of those situations, we are most like Marty in 2000. We were 8-8 after starting 0-5, had John Schneider in the front office. Snyder fires everyone, brings back Cerrato, and on we went with the same cycle.

That was the best set-up the organization has been under Snyder. So that's certainly what everyone should be hoping for. 

[RWJ]

My guess by the end of this week at the latest Cowden is named the new GM of this team. Interviews can be done via video so I expect it to happen quickly.  Hurney might be brought in as a Senior Consultant.  In the end, I think Cowden is the pick.  

[boston skins fan]

question is if cowden is in as GM why do you need hurney?  could lead to another Brucifer

[JoggingGod]

56 minutes ago, boston skins fan said:

question is if cowden is in as GM why do you need hurney?  could lead to another Brucifer

Hurney probably doesn’t want to be a GM considering his age. Less stressful to just be an advisor

[CapsSkins]

1 hour ago, boston skins fan said:

question is if cowden is in as GM why do you need hurney?  could lead to another Brucifer

 

There's a lot of operations and football administration stuff that has nothing to do with scouting or picking players. Stuff like dealing with the union or chartering travel and hotel accommodations, all that stuff. Could be to split the responsibility.  

[actorguy1]

If its Hurney or Mayhew it might be as a non traditional GM. Meaning, they could do everything but personnel, leaving that part to Kyle. Rivera could concentrate more on coaching and having final say on everything but the day to day team management would be up to Hurney/Mayhew. That's what Standig speculated.