2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

He has some mistakes and some brilliance. It’s really the best game to watch of him so far.

 

Based on this game along what I liked is his accuracy -- short, intermediate and deep.  In routes, out routes.  He can make all the throws.  One of my issues with Haskins and Jones before the 2019 draft was their accuracy had a specific wheelhouse and it didn't extend much beyond that.  Fields IMO or at least based on this game can spray the ball just about everywhere fairly accurately.    He's dynamic with his legs.  the combination of the two can make him lethal. 

 

I get the analogies that some use to Cam.  He's more accurate than Cam but as a runner he carries the ball in a similar style and can take some punishment because of his size. 

 

Downside is he can stare at receivers and leave them vulnerbale, some throws need more arc, holds on to the ball too long. 

[Warhead36]

I'm okay with drafting Fields but would not trade up for him. I'm only trading up for Lawrence.

[LetThePointsSoar]

I just loved how perfectly accurate he is - he hit everyone in stride and right on time. The only incompletion he had was a PERFECTLY thrown deep ball that the receiver couldn't hang on to. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

I noticed a few times this game and last year Fields has a tendency to stop looking downfield when he's on the run. Even in this game today he had a wide open WR running right in front of him in the end zone and he missed him. The WR had his freaking hand up and everything. 

 

There's things I like about him, but stuff like that is alarming.

Edited October 24, 2020 by Burgundy Yoda

[RichmondRedskin88]

Wow Waddle out for year per Saban after taking a kickoff out and getting tackled weird. 

[Berggy9598]

If we don’t draft a QB this year I’ll be hyping me up some Spencer Sanders. Kolby Harvell-Peel will be a solid NFL safety imo. May not make multiple pro bowls but he does quiet a few things well and he’s physical. 

Edited October 24, 2020 by Berggy9598

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, RichmondRedskin88 said:

Wow Waddle out for year per Saban after taking a kickoff out and getting tackled weird. 

Draft him in the second and we're commiting robbery.

[KDawg]

3 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm okay with drafting Fields but would not trade up for him. I'm only trading up for Lawrence.

I agree. I actually like Fields better than Lawrence. Just a gut. Not based on anything real.

 

But I’d agree if we’re trading up Lawrence has shown more worth trading up for. Fields is fine to take almost anywhere, but don’t commit more than needed.

[Malapropismic Depository]

After we trade Tress Way for the #1 Overall Pick, I found Way's replacement...

 

 

 

 

 

[757SeanTaylor21]

Any day in the nfl that's blocked he got a huge runnin start it seemed but nonetheless that was one hell of a punt 

[Malapropismic Depository]

26 minutes ago, 757SeanTaylor21 said:

Any day in the nfl that's blocked he got a huge runnin start it seemed but nonetheless that was one hell of a punt 

 

It may have been blocked in the Pros, but on that particular play, it legitimately looks like he was victim of roughing the kicker. Looks like some dude just steamrolled him, just as he got the kick off, which actually made the kick that much more amazing.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Malapropismic Depository]

"Some in the football world have compared Fields' game to Newton's"

 

And also some in the football world compared Haskins' game to Roethliesberger, when he first came out of college.

[PartyPosse]

Rashod Bateman is a very versatile WR. I think him and Gibson on the field together would cause a boatload of defensive confusion.

[PartyPosse]

Also, Michigan QB Joe Milton looks like he could be a major player in a couple of years. It's early, but man does he look poised and in control. He's got an incredible arm, good wheels and once he learns to fine-tune his touch pass he could be the real deal.

[Malapropismic Depository]

Not sayin we should draft him.  But it's amazing how this DB looks just like Troy Apke

 

 

 

 

[KDawg]

Watching Wilson. Good player. Takes a lot of risks. Part of me loves that. Part of me doesn’t. Dude is not afraid to try to thread a needle into a pinpoint. 
 

Had a speed option type look that Texas State snuffed out and got in the pitch lane and his run lane... then he lobbed it over the defender’s head to the back.. backwards. The back caught it.

 

It was a bad play, but I am impressed with how unrattled and unrelenting he is.

[Going Commando]

13 hours ago, KDawg said:

Arm strength is relative.

 

Saying he struggles with some throws is accurate... as all QBs do. Saying he doesn’t have a strong arm is different. 

 

I'm saying he doesn't have a strong arm compared to the NFL QBs who have elite arm talent.  The comparison isn't really that nebulous.  Being able to drive the ball on throws where you get to set up isn't the measure of elite arm strength at the NFL level.  Elite arm talent is being able to stick certain throws whether or not you get to set your feet and step into it.  Specifically, the deep seam throws against zone defense and crossers and deep outs outside the hashes, especially field-side.  Guys with elite arm strength can just stick those throws whether or not they're set and stepping into it.  Mahomes, Allen, Stafford, Goff, Murray, Lock, Herbert, Wentz, Newton, and yes Haskins.  The timing and velocity of their throws are the demonstration of elite NFL arm strength, and it's a noticeable difference from Fields's throws if you've spent forever watching them and then watch Fields.  I have done this.  I have seen Jared Goff beat the safety good U dub cover 3 on seam routes right up that field side hash repeatedly.  It literally looks different than when Fields throws.

 

Also I wanted to quote SIP's post where he quotes Ryan Day equivocating on the definition of arm strength in regards to Fields but for some reason I can't break up the post.  Nobody is disputing that throwing an out with NFL velocity will require setting up your feet and driving on the throw for most.  But what makes a strong arm in the NFL is hitting that window when you don't get the ideal set for it.  If you hold the ball and don't set then the difference between a strong and an ordinary arm in the NFL is beating the coverage's fingertips and throwing a pick six to Jamel Dean.

 

Being able to throw those windows isn't the end all be-all of quarterbacking.  It's just a tool.  But to cope with not having elite arm talent, you have to constantly be throwing quicker than the defense can figure things out and that takes elite reading.  And that's where I want to see an improvement from Fields before I buy into him as an early first round prospect.

[Fresh8686]

 

[Warhead36]

I'm liking Wilson a lot too. Not with a top 5 pick mind you but he seems like one of those types who will get drafted by a good organization in the mid to late ish first and blossom into a star. Think Rodgers or Roethlisberger type(not playstyle wise just in their draft situation).

[method man]

6 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I'm liking Wilson a lot too. Not with a top 5 pick mind you but he seems like one of those types who will get drafted by a good organization in the mid to late ish first and blossom into a star. Think Rodgers or Roethlisberger type(not playstyle wise just in their draft situation).

 

I think by the time it is said and done, Wilson will go in the teens at the latest and may end up going top 10 if he passes Lance as QB3. He lacks elite arm strength, ideal build and has had injury issues (shoulder/hand surgeries). However, he seems to have everything else you look for in a top QB - I love his willingness to go deep, his accuracy, ability to read the field and go to his 2nd/3rd options, his scrambling ability, creativity, work ethic and ability to make nearly every NFL throw. I would be shocked if Ron, Scott and Kyle don't like him.

 

On the arm strength, check out the throw he makes at :50. 65 yards in the air to the other side of the field. Wow

 

https://www.deseret.com/sports/2020/10/25/21529203/byu-football-zach-wilson-kalani-sitake-dax-milne-isaac-rex-jake-spavital-texas-state-football

 

 

[Blanka]

I think when it's all said and done Lance AND Wilson will go back half of the top 10. 

 

 

 

Can't recall a year where so many teams will be in the QB market

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Blanka said:

I think when it's all said and done Lance AND Wilson will go back half of the top 10. 

 

 

 

Can't recall a year where so many teams will be in the QB market

 

I bet Lance goes top 5.  Dudes at Qb with his kind of ceiling typically don't fall and mobility is valued now more than ever.  Wilson is a hard call for me right now but it looks like he's the one headed to be maybe within the range of our pick if we win a few more.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I bet Lance goes top 5.  Dudes at Qb with his kind of ceiling typically don't fall and mobility is valued now more than ever.  Wilson is a hard call for me right now but it looks like he's the one headed to be maybe within the range of our pick if we win a few more.

 

Saying this with an obvious caveat.  I need to watch more of him, I've only seen 1 game and 1 highlight cutup.  But...I don't think we can realistically know what his ceiling is.  His ball placement might not be fixable.

 

He's intriguing for sure.  But he is, in my mind, THE wild card of the draft.  Top 10?  1st round?  2nd round?  Who knows.  That scares me away from wanting to draft him.

[Skinsinparadise]

27 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Saying this with an obvious caveat.  I need to watch more of him, I've only seen 1 game and 1 highlight cutup.  But...I don't think we can realistically know what his ceiling is.  His ball placement might not be fixable.

 

He's intriguing for sure.  But he is, in my mind, THE wild card of the draft.  Top 10?  1st round?  2nd round?  Who knows.  That scares me away from wanting to draft him.

 

I watched the highlights so far for Lance.  For whatever reason I decided to immerse myself first in Zach Wilson, just watched 2 games, at some point I'll give a longish take on him on this thread.  Need to watch more first.

 

As for Lance to me its clear he has a rocket of an arm and great mobility.  I'd figured with Watson and Lamar Jackson falling in the draft undeservingly -- dudes like Lance will likely be coveted.  And based on what am reading, that seems to be the buzz thus far.

 

But agree its early, will see.

 

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-draft-with-qb-trey-lance-declaring-the-next-stop-is-the-top-10-220036207.html

“He could have played anywhere in the country, that’s pretty clear,” a senior NFL talent evaluator told Yahoo Sports in August about Lance. “Natural throwing motion, great touch, athleticism, feet, even pocket sense and feel — the star qualities are all there.”

More than anything, Lance’s play seems to belie his age. He turned 20 years old in May, and yet Lance plays like someone who has started 20 or more games at an FBS school because of how patient and polished he looks most of the time. 

Adjusting to the NFL shouldn’t be a mental hurdle he’ll struggle with more than most rookies.

“You watch him, and this is a complex offense they’re running,” the evaluator continued. “They’re not dumbing things down for a freshman. If anything, they’re opening things up to fit his skill level and understanding of it all. I give that staff a lot of credit, especially for a first-time head coach [Matt Entz].”

Stacking up Lance’s limited body of work

In Lance’s 17 career starts in college — including last week’s one-off game against Central Arkansas — he completed 207 of 317 passes (65.3 percent) for 2,935 yards, with a 30-1 TD-INT ratio. And he was just as dangerous as a runner, rushing 184 times for 1,243 yards (6.8-yard average) and 16 TDs.

The majority of that production came during a championship run last season, as the Bison took the FCS title in a 16-0 season. Lance’s next loss as a starting QB will be his first since high school, where he was a Wing-T QB and safety.

Purely for as close to an apples-to-apples comparison as we can make, here are the numbers fellow North Dakota State QB Carson Wentz put up in his final 17 college starts in parts of his 2014 and 2015 seasons: 251 of 403 passing (62.3 percent) for 3,326 yards, with a 34-10 TD-INT ratio; and 150 rushes for 744 yards (5.0 average) and 11 scores.

 

Wentz, the progenitor of the Bison’s NFL QB chain (which continued with now Chargers QB Easton Stick), is a bit of a touchy subject in NFL circles these days. He seemingly has regressed — or failed to progress — in Year 5.

And truthfully, Lance shares some of Wentz’s physical traits: namely in his loose, strong arm; a chiseled, pro-ready, athletic frame; a willingness to hang tough in the pocket; and a real toughness as a runner. 

Too often for our taste, in fact, Lance will barrel through defenders and leave himself exposed to hits. He also can stand to perform a bit better when pressure closes in. Lance plays with a cool demeanor, but there are times when he’s almost too calm back there. And there are times when he drifts as he throws, something the mechanically wild Wentz will do too often.

But all that said, Lance has a ceiling that exceeds Wentz’s, we believe. If he lands in the right situation, with the right coaching staff that is willing to develop him appropriately, Lance could be a star in this league.