2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

So for a slightly undersized LB that can hopefully cover in the NFL.  Jeremiah Owusu-Koramoah from Notre Dame.  Only seen 1 game so far.

 

Best skill is blitzing.  He seems comfortable in space, as he's frequently lining up over the slot.  Off-ball only and not press.  Occasionally he's in far off alignment.

 

He's not a conventional stack linebacker.  He's not going to initiate first against blockers to control a gap.  He's someone you want moving around.  Seems like a potential Day 2 pick that could help our defense.

[Fresh8686]

 

[Playaction2Sanders]

13 hours ago, Fresh8686 said:

 

 

 

If there is anyone from Clemson I want beside Lawrence its Etienne.

 

 

[The Consigliere]

On 10/20/2020 at 1:42 AM, KDawg said:

LB is as large of a hole as OL. Both need to be addressed... somehow.

Cant fill every hole but those two spots and safety need attention. 
 

There’s enough resources to address those and a slot receiver or #2 receiver as well as a QB. Some will be more stop gap type of addressing... but it can be addressed. If we go another year with no LBs as we start getting DL expiring contracts were in trouble.

The good news is LB is cheap in terms of FA SB $$ cost, and draft capital cost, and the bad news is it's terribly inefficient to address LB needs early in the draft, but that's no big deal because if we're this bad, we can always use an early 2nd or 3rd this year or next on LB help to augment whatever is done in FA. The only thing I'd 1000% eschew is going LB in round 1, it's a monstrously ineffiecient use of draft resources to do so and is cap idiocy of the highest order. Save top 10 picks for QB, OT, Edge, DT, DB and if necessary, WR/G. Eschew LB, C, RB, and to some extent, G w/those early picks. 

[The Consigliere]

On 10/21/2020 at 10:18 AM, RichmondRedskin88 said:

There is a key difference though between OSU and others.  OSU out recruits about 98% of the nation.  You are speaking as though it’s a even playing field.  OSU surrounds its QBs with superior talent so even their poor QBs looked good.  Can you honestly say any of the QBs there have made their teams better? No you can’t.  Their teammates did.  Same at Bama up until Tua honestly (Many Bama QBs had incredible win records but that was because of the dominate teams.).  LSU QBs weren’t very good until Burrow.  Heck the year they went undefeated and loss the title Jefferson was their QB.  That dude was terrible. Their defense was off the charts though
 

I’m not saying we shouldn’t take fields if there but we should think hard as we could be walk right into another Haskins situation.   For all the praise Haskins got people forget in tough situations he had incredible offensive weapons to bail him out.  Also one needs to remember they have very little competition in their conference.   It’s honestly surprising they lose any games each year in conference with a team that stacked. 

How many of those guys you hate were actually seen as stud future QB prospect? The answer is next to none. 

 

Troy Smith: A late fifth rounder that did well to actually log a reasonable amount of starts in a nondescript career. 

 

Pryor and Miller: Pryor spent time with the Raiders playing as both a QB and a WR drafted in the early third, and was drafted as a kind of slash player, while Miller was drafted to play WR. 

 

JT Barrett: Never seen by anyone as much of an NFL prospect. 

 

Dwayne Haskins: Had 1 studly season as the starter. 

 

Now we have Fields, the #1 or #1B QB Prospect in his recruiting class,  who actually was signed by Georgia, and only transferred to Ohio State reportedly after finding himself stuck behind Jake Fromm, and then dealing with a racial slur incident while playing on Georgia's baseball team (he was the victim of the slur). 

 

I just don't see how Ohio State really has anything to do with any of this. Smith, Miller and Barrett were never considered much of anything by NFL GM's and scouts, Pryor did get a late day 2 early day 3 grade as a QB w/convert to WR potential which happened after he left Oakland for Cleveland. Basically Ohio State QB's tend to be athletes, plug and play forgetable system guys, and only recently legit prospects, w/Haskins being a 91st ranked prospect, and Fields being the #1/#2 overall ranked prospect in his class.

 

Fields is just fundamentally different than any of these guys. He and Lawrence were the #1 and #1A targets for teams recruiting Qb's in 2017. He was a part of a group of 5 star super elite QB recruits for Georgia over the past 15 years that included Matthew Stafford, Aaron Murray, Jake Fromm, and Jacob Eason, all super elite, near tops in their class QB prospects coming into college. Fields has come out of that post-Stafford group as easily the most well thought of QB prospect since Stafford a decade ago, and has lived up to the hype.

 

As for the Alabama/Ohio State analysis, I don't disagree w/the idea that they're surrounded by ridiculous weapons. They are. I can't speak to Alabama QB's before they arrived because I've never paid attention due to the fact that other than McCarran and Tua, I never got the sense any of them were perceived as remotely capable of NFL careers. Always seemed like Saban believed you got QB managers, and you surrounded those guys with the best OL/DL recruits in the nation, and then sprinkle five stars around RB/WR/TE and the back seven and you wouldn't need to beat the rest of the country to the door of the next golden haired five star QB. It's worked just fine for him, Alabama's won a ton of titles, and produced a gazillion NFL prospects at every position imaginable except for QB (and in fairness, there's consistent grade inflation w/Alabama prospects because of the coaching, and because players can look better because of their teammates as you've attested too). However, the key detail missing here is that Fields was a better regarded prospect than literally anyone on Ohio State, period, as a recruit. There's NO ONE on Ohio State, this year, or last, that was as well regarded as a recruit as Justin Fields, period, not even Chase Young. 

 

That's what your analysis is missing. Yes he's enjoying playing with some great prospects, though in fairness, Ohio State didn't feature in '19 or in '20 this year any WR ranked at the top of their draft classes. Looks like Wilson and Olave will be day 2 picks, for now, while JK Dobbins is a dynamo, agreed there, but again, regardless of what we think of guys like Dobbins or Wilson or Olave or KJ Hill, Fields was, and is considered vastly superior as an overall prospect any of these guys, both before he arrived and now. 

 

The system is the system, but Fields is a top overall prospect running the system, not a guy ranked around 100 like Haskins, or even lower like others, and unlike many of those prior QB's, the NFL has seen him and continues to see him as a legit NFL QB prospect, a top 5 overall pick kind of QB since he arrived at Georgia as a teenager two years ago. 

 

[Going Commando]

Holcomb is the best linebacker on the team.  Flawed, but he's alright.  And likely to grow as a player.  The other guys are bad, but this is a group that could turn around rapidly if Hudson pans out and Foster manages to get healthy.  What's worrying me is that this LB group should be playing way better than we have based in the quality if our DL and the reputation of our coaches.  That is the one group we should absolutely be getting play from that is more than the sum of their parts.  But they've regressed, if anything.

 

Our safeties majorly regressed too, another red flag.  They are making almost zero plays and they're getting eaten up on both runs and passes.

 

The depressing thing about this season is the realization that only our one technique, our two main defensive ends, and Kendall Fuller are good players that can routinely win individual match ups.  The defense is almost as far away as the offense still, despite everything we invested in it.

[mh86]

so I’m no expert, but it seems fields is just throwing to wide open receivers most of the time. He may keep plays alive with his feet, but I do think he’s getting a lot of help from the talent around him and the lack of talent from his opponents. There’s a high chance I’m completely wrong, but pass.

[KDawg]

4 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Holcomb is the best linebacker on the team.  Flawed, but he's alright.  And likely to grow as a player.  The other guys are bad, but this is a group that could turn around rapidly if Hudson pans out and Foster manages to get healthy.  What's worrying me is that this LB group should be playing way better than we have based in the quality if our DL and the reputation of our coaches.  That is the one group we should absolutely be getting play from that is more than the sum of their parts.  But they've regressed, if anything.

 

Our safeties majorly regressed too, another red flag.  They are making almost zero plays and they're getting eaten up on both runs and passes.

 

The depressing thing about this season is the realization that only our one technique, our two main defensive ends, and Kendall Fuller are good players that can routinely win individual match ups.  The defense is almost as far away as the offense still, despite everything we invested in it.

I assume by 1-tech you mean Payne. But Payne played a lot of 3-tech this week and Allen a lot of 1-tech. I’m confused why that was part of the game plan. 

Edited October 23, 2020 by KDawg

[Going Commando]

44 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I assume by 1-tech you mean Payne. But Payne played a lot of 3-tech this week and Allen a lot of 1-tech. I’m confused why that was part of the game plan. 

 

Looked like all of our good run stuffs last week were plays where Payne was at the one and he controlled the line at the point of attack.

 

It's not enough clearly.  We still got gashed again.  And it's become clear that we have a big problem defending quarterback runs and that the RPO game is a major threat.  I don't really have any answers for why we're as bad as we are on defense.  In theory, we shouldn't be.  Bad personnel isn't enough to explain the performances for me.  The safeties and linebackers shouldn't be struggling this hard.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

...That evaluator now works in college football. He has watched Clemson’s Trevor Lawrence, who he says, like most of America, is the clear-cut top prospect next spring. He has also seen most of the other big-name QB prospects (North Dakota State’s Trey Lance, Ohio State’s Justin Fields and Florida’s Kyle Trask among them), with BYU’s fast-rising Zach Wilson still on his rainy-day watch list.

Lawrence is the nearly universal top prospect. And the fascinating Lance, despite his lesser body of work, is some team’s second-highest-graded prospect.

But in the evaluator’s mind, Fields isn’t getting the proper respect.

“You can hype the other guys enough,” he said, “but why aren’t we talking about Justin Fields more? Georgia fans are; they wish they still had him. Is everyone else talking about him? Maybe, but I ain’t heard it a lot.

“I don’t know what other people think of him. But to me, [Fields] is Cam [Newton] 2.0. Just a little shorter. The set up, the throwing motion, the big frame, that tough running ability, and maybe it’s that No. 1 [jersey] he wears. But that’s the guy he reminds me of.”

 

...Urban Meyer, who never coached Fields at OSU but remains close to the program, recently told Big Ten Network that Fields arrived in Columbus as “a runner that threw very well” but who now has elevated his game with his improved passing over the past year and a half.

“Now, he is a quarterback that just happens to be Braxton Miller fast, is as electric of a runner as Braxton was,” Meyer said. “That’s what I’m hearing. That’s what I saw. He’s a little thicker than Braxton. What you have, if it’s even possible, you have a Braxton Miller athlete that throws like Dwayne Haskins. 

“And if that’s possible, you’re talking about arguably — you know, I know Trevor Lawrence is there and [tight end] Kyle Pitts from Florida, who I personally think is the best non-quarterback player in America — you’re talking about the best player in America. If he can actually do what I’m hearing he can do, there’s no stopping this guy.”

 

...Quincy Avery, a private QB tutor who has worked with Fields and Lance, said Fields has a style that makes him tough to compare to anyone else.

“He can do all the things that you’d ask any other passer to do,” Avery said. “But he also has this dynamic genius that sets him apart as a designed runner. You can’t design runs for a lot of quarterbacks in the NFL, so that’s different.

“But I also don’t want to categorize him as just a runner. He’s one of the best quarterbacks from the pocket in the country.”

In clean pockets last season, Pro Football Focus charted Fields as having an adjusted completion percentage (which accounts for dropped passes) of 71.1, averaging 9.6 yards per attempt with a TD-INT ratio of 33-2. Those were better clean-pocket numbers in 2019 than Lawrence and Justin Herbert, the No. 6 overall pick last spring, and just a tick behind top-five picks Joe Burrow and Tagovailoa. 

“[Fields has] clearly made strides as a thrower and with his throwing mechanics,” Avery said, “but you can’t make the kinds of improvements he has unless you have a lot of God-given ability. He’s got that, and we’re just starting to see what he’s capable of.”

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/2021-nfl-draft-qb-class-offers-the-dualthreat-potential-teams-are-seeking-125621854.html

 

 

Edited October 23, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[Est.1974]

Ok. Let’s all just agree that we need to go 1-15 this season.

[philibusters]

I'd be happy with eitehr of Lawrence or Fields.   Heck I would be happy with Lance, but much more nervous about him.   I would like to have the optimism without the nervousness that comes from Lawrence and Fields.

 

Ranking my Draft wishes

1.  Lawrence

2.  Fields

3.  Sewell

4.  Chase

 

If all those guys are off the table, I would mind trying to move back to the middle of the first round and maybe getting a guy like Rondale Moore.  That said I also wouldn't be that upset taking Lance even though I would realize the bust chances are much higher than I would like.

 

[Anselmheifer]

7 minutes ago, philibusters said:

I'd be happy with eitehr of Lawrence or Fields.   Heck I would be happy with Lance, but much more nervous about him.   I would like to have the optimism without the nervousness that comes from Lawrence and Fields.

 

Ranking my Draft wishes

1.  Lawrence

2.  Fields

3.  Sewell

4.  Chase

 

If all those guys are off the table, I would mind trying to move back to the middle of the first round and maybe getting a guy like Rondale Moore.  That said I also wouldn't be that upset taking Lance even though I would realize the bust chances are much higher than I would like.

 

 

Rondale Moore is a total stud. He's going to be a very good pro. 

[The Consigliere]

2 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Ok. Let’s all just agree that we need to go 1-15 this season.

and borrow the Delorian from Back to the future and get us to lose that Eagle game. That, and I'd be satisfied w/the '20 season. 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, philibusters said:

I'd be happy with eitehr of Lawrence or Fields.   Heck I would be happy with Lance, but much more nervous about him.   I would like to have the optimism without the nervousness that comes from Lawrence and Fields.

 

Ranking my Draft wishes

1.  Lawrence

2.  Fields

3.  Sewell

4.  Chase

 

If all those guys are off the table, I would mind trying to move back to the middle of the first round and maybe getting a guy like Rondale Moore.  That said I also wouldn't be that upset taking Lance even though I would realize the bust chances are much higher than I would like.

 

 

I'll shortly watch them all, its feeling like it did during the 2011 season when we knew it was going to be a QB in 2012.

 

Good article here about Lance.

 

https://sports.yahoo.com/nfl-draft-with-qb-trey-lance-declaring-the-next-stop-is-the-top-10-220036207.html

He could have played anywhere in the country, that’s pretty clear,” a senior NFL talent evaluator told Yahoo Sports in August about Lance. “Natural throwing motion, great touch, athleticism, feet, even pocket sense and feel — the star qualities are all there.”

More than anything, Lance’s play seems to belie his age. He turned 20 years old in May, and yet Lance plays like someone who has started 20 or more games at an FBS school because of how patient and polished he looks most of the time. 

Adjusting to the NFL shouldn’t be a mental hurdle he’ll struggle with more than most rookies.

“You watch him, and this is a complex offense they’re running,” the evaluator continued. “They’re not dumbing things down for a freshman. If anything, they’re opening things up to fit his skill level and understanding of it all. I give that staff a lot of credit, especially for a first-time head coach [Matt Entz].”

Stacking up Lance’s limited body of work

In Lance’s 17 career starts in college — including last week’s one-off game against Central Arkansas — he completed 207 of 317 passes (65.3 percent) for 2,935 yards, with a 30-1 TD-INT ratio. And he was just as dangerous as a runner, rushing 184 times for 1,243 yards (6.8-yard average) and 16 TDs.

The majority of that production came during a championship run last season, as the Bison took the FCS title in a 16-0 season. Lance’s next loss as a starting QB will be his first since high school, where he was a Wing-T QB and safety.

 

Purely for as close to an apples-to-apples comparison as we can make, here are the numbers fellow North Dakota State QB Carson Wentz put up in his final 17 college starts in parts of his 2014 and 2015 seasons: 251 of 403 passing (62.3 percent) for 3,326 yards, with a 34-10 TD-INT ratio; and 150 rushes for 744 yards (5.0 average) and 11 scores.

Wentz, the progenitor of the Bison’s NFL QB chain (which continued with now Chargers QB Easton Stick), is a bit of a touchy subject in NFL circles these days. He seemingly has regressed — or failed to progress — in Year 5.

 

And truthfully, Lance shares some of Wentz’s physical traits: namely in his loose, strong arm; a chiseled, pro-ready, athletic frame; a willingness to hang tough in the pocket; and a real toughness as a runner. 

Too often for our taste, in fact, Lance will barrel through defenders and leave himself exposed to hits. He also can stand to perform a bit better when pressure closes in. Lance plays with a cool demeanor, but there are times when he’s almost too calm back there. And there are times when he drifts as he throws, something the mechanically wild Wentz will do too often.

But all that said, Lance has a ceiling that exceeds Wentz’s, we believe. If he lands in the right situation, with the right coaching staff that is willing to develop him appropriately, Lance could be a star in this league.

Edited October 23, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[mistertim]

2 hours ago, philibusters said:

I'd be happy with eitehr of Lawrence or Fields.   Heck I would be happy with Lance, but much more nervous about him.   I would like to have the optimism without the nervousness that comes from Lawrence and Fields.

 

Ranking my Draft wishes

1.  Lawrence

2.  Fields

3.  Sewell

4.  Chase

 

If all those guys are off the table, I would mind trying to move back to the middle of the first round and maybe getting a guy like Rondale Moore.  That said I also wouldn't be that upset taking Lance even though I would realize the bust chances are much higher than I would like.

 

 

Yeah I'd be good with Lawrence or Fields and I feel the same about Lance. Fun to watch, super talented, but still some things that give me pause; I wouldn't want to take him with a top 5 pick.

 

My draft wishes would probably be pretty much the same as your list but I'd add Parsons at 5. I think he'd instantly be a huge upgrade to our LB corps...he's just absolutely dominant when you watch him play; looks like a man among boys.

 

If those guys are off the table and we moved back to the middle of the first I'd probably look to pull the trigger on Pitts if he's still there. Though we could also then take Lance if he's still available. 

[Est.1974]

1 hour ago, The Consigliere said:

and borrow the Delorian from Back to the future and get us to lose that Eagle game. That, and I'd be satisfied w/the '20 season. 

Damn right. Although those Jets are fair competition for that 0-16 record.

 

To add from me, some great information/insight from you in this thread, really good reading for someone like myself who doesn’t see a vast amount of college football. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

[KDawg]

For having no arm Fields sure does get the ball out there.

[Skinsinparadise]

[OVCChairman]

too bad Graham Mertz is a freshman... good lord.

 

on another note... Jake Ferguson... i'm watchin you. 

[OVCChairman]

 

 

I hope we're looking at the interior line of Va Tech too... 

 

[Koolblue13]

On 10/22/2020 at 4:06 PM, The Consigliere said:

The good news is LB is cheap in terms of FA SB $$ cost, and draft capital cost, and the bad news is it's terribly inefficient to address LB needs early in the draft, but that's no big deal because if we're this bad, we can always use an early 2nd or 3rd this year or next on LB help to augment whatever is done in FA. The only thing I'd 1000% eschew is going LB in round 1, it's a monstrously ineffiecient use of draft resources to do so and is cap idiocy of the highest order. Save top 10 picks for QB, OT, Edge, DT, DB and if necessary, WR/G. Eschew LB, C, RB, and to some extent, G w/those early picks. 

Top end LBers, especially in the middle are built around, and rarely see FA. You can get adequate LBers and over pay them, sure. That's FA. It's been such a need for this team for too long. 

[philibusters]

I agree with Consigliere that decent linebackers can be had relatively cheaply in free agency.  For example we signed Zach Brown to a 4.65 million dollar deal a few years ago.  Was he a star?  No.  But he was solid.

 

I do think Koolblue13 is right that you are unlikely to get a true star at LB in FA, just because 90% of pro bowl caliber players, regardless of position, don't make it to free agency.

[KDawg]

LB is a fringe high first round position to me.

 

In general I think OT, QB, Edge, CB, DT are the primary positions you want in a pick 1-5. 10-15 is the same but I think LB (for a special one), FS join the party. WR is a priority position in that range as well.  
 

TE, OG and C join in the early to mid 20s.