2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[KDawg]

5 minutes ago, max21 said:

Do you not like JOK? Kind of reminds me of Simmons from Clemson last year 

I don’t. Not for our needs. He is an outside backer and we need inside backers for a 4-2 nickel base. We aren’t running a 4-3 or 3-4.

[Going Commando]

14 hours ago, DWinzit said:

I had viewed Ossai as an edge guy. Do you believe he can play a role similar to how Zaven would be used by WFT?

 

I think he's a LB/DE hybrid type who would primarily operate as a pass rusher on pass downs/long leverage situations and a force man against the run.  Wouldn't be common to play him in the middle of your stack, but he did do a little bit of that at Texas in a blitz/spill capacity where he played downhill.  You don't want him playing back on his heels too often, you want him attacking the LoS, so in that respect I think he's a very different weapon from Zaven Collins.  His crazy TFL numbers tell you how to use him--have him go after the ball and disrupt the backfield.  But he can spot drop into underneath zones.  I just wouldn't have him man cover TEs or backs.

 

I really like him because he's an absolutely freakish athlete at 6'4 256 with a 42 inch vert and a 4.63 40 with good ability to break down and change directions and explode into plays off his frame.  And he seems to be undervalued in his projections as a second round pick.  Usually that body and athletic profile goes in the first round, and he pairs that elite ahtleticism with a really dogged playing style and motor.  I think there is big value potential with him.  And I like his versatility as someone who transitions between a two and three point stance role with surprising fluidity.  You mainly use him as a big blitzer and/or a SAM but he can also be a sub package DE so he kind of addresses two needs with one pick.  If you get him, then you don't really have to feel pressured into finding another edge rusher somewhere in the class, which would be nice.

[mhd24]

9 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I think he's a LB/DE hybrid type who would primarily operate as a pass rusher on pass downs/long leverage situations and a force man against the run.  Wouldn't be common to play him in the middle of your stack, but he did do a little bit of that at Texas in a blitz/spill capacity where he played downhill.  You don't want him playing back on his heels too often, you want him attacking the LoS, so in that respect I think he's a very different weapon from Zaven Collins.  His crazy TFL numbers tell you how to use him--have him go after the ball and disrupt the backfield.  But he can spot drop into underneath zones.  I just wouldn't have him man cover TEs or backs.

 

I really like him because he's an absolutely freakish athlete at 6'4 256 with a 42 inch vert and a 4.63 40 with good ability to break down and change directions and explode into plays off his frame.  And he seems to be undervalued in his projections as a second round pick.  Usually that body and athletic profile goes in the first round, and he pairs that elite ahtleticism with a really dogged playing style and motor.  I think there is big value potential with him.  And I like his versatility as someone who transitions between a two and three point stance role with surprising fluidity.  You mainly use him as a big blitzer and/or a SAM but he can also be a sub package DE so he kind of addresses two needs with one pick.  If you get him, then you don't really have to feel pressured into finding another edge rusher somewhere in the class, which would be nice.

 

 

His elite measurables will get him drafted relatively high (especially in this class with no elite pass rushers).  Could see Cleveland (26), New Orleans (28), Tampa (32), Jets (34), Atl (35), all take him.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

42 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I’m not sure there’s a first round LB outside of Zaven.

 

He was there at #26 on the PFF Simulator and #30 in a trade-back for the TDN simulator. We'll see if he falls that far since, I do think you're right.

 

#51 seems best suited for LB though outside of Collins. Jabril Cox, Jamin Davis, Pete Werner should still be there, could even have one or two of them fall to #74. Dylan Moses seems to be slipping but is someone I would consider as well .. but more likely in R3. But given how this team lacks an impact LB I fear we would risk losing a guy we really like if we wait too long.

 

Darrisaw at 19 and Cox at 51 would be a perfect setup though.

[Going Commando]

20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like your RB description of him.  That's how he looks and feels to me.  Big time weapon in the flat and with the ball in his hands.  As I mentioned, he's an impressive interview too comes off like a smart dude/leader type.

 

Like a power running back.  It's fun watching him truck DBs who didn't sign up for this when they thought they'd be covering WRs split out that far, all while another one is hanging on his back/waist.

 

But he's got some inside shake too.  If you go in too hot for his legs, he might jump cut you back inside and make you miss.  Or he might hurdle you like he did in the Louisville game.  He's very hard to tackle.  Freiermuth is probably just going to run you over if he can't get by you.

 

You're higher on using blocking as a rubric for TEs than I am, but I recognize it's a source of value for Jordan that he gives you interesting options as a blocker.  He played in line at Miami and has experience in pass pro as a traditional TE.  But one of the fun wrinkles he gives your pass game split wide is as a WR screen blocker.  He is good at getting hands on those DBs so he's equally useful to catch and run those screens himself or block for someone else out there.  Very unique and versatile weapon for an offense.

 

20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I was finally able to find a 2020 Freiermuth game.   I like him, don't love him but I like him enough to be happy if we got him.  Wow did Jahaan Dotson flash in that one.   Freiermuth moves well for a big dude.   Can run routes.  Plays in line or detached.  He can certainly block.  Moves well for a dude that size but he doesn't look fast, dynamic or quick but isn't slow either.  This dude isn't Brevin Jordan where it looks like he will make big YAC plays but he can steam roll guys with YAC.  He's more of a well rounded do everything type of TE.   With his size I agree, a good red zone threat.  He has good hands but not hands of glue in the games I watched which was two different games against Ohio State.  In the 2019 game against Ohio State, Chase Young was a wrecking ball.

 

Yeah Dotson and later Ty Fryfogle pretty much ended the notion of Shaun Wade as an early round pick.  He was an absolute killer that game.  Freiermuth was used as more of an H-Back than traditional in-line TE but he does have the size to play that role.  But you want a guy like him running routes and he gets more runway as an H-Back.  He's a very canny zone beater and it's amazing how often he gets himself lost despite how big he is and everybody on the defense knows he's a threat.

 

The thing that's special about him is his nose for the end zone, and that's what makes me afraid to write him off.  He's got that extra little bit of extra juice/motor for getting the house call when most guys go down with the long gain.  He scored 15 TDs and a 2 pt conversion in his first two years, and was a hair away from a couple more.  He might never pile up receiving yards and catches like the best TEs in the NFL, but I think he's a threat to score double digit TDs in healthy seasons and give your QB so many pitch and catch TDs in and-goal situations.  Especially if you've got a run game.

 

20 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

As for Long, he was one of my more confounding watches in my years of watching many TEs.  I like his long speed but not so much his quickness/short speed.  I am OK with his toughness as a blocker but don't like his toughness as for contested catches and YAC.    He can make some really nice catches but also have some frustrating drops.   Strikes me as a traditional up the seam type of weapon if he finds his stride in the NFL and will make some occasional big plays.

 

I feel pretty much the same way about Long.  The two guys I want to see the testing numbers for the most are Tremble and Long.  Tremble is going to have to hang his hat on his testing because of how small his sampling as a receiver is.  But if he runs in the 4.5s, then suddenly the George Kittle projection doesn't seem like that much of a stretch.  His ceiling would be through the roof and you can better justify day two projections.

 

With Long I just want to see if he's faster than he looks.  He's claimed to have run in the 4.5/4.6 range and I find myself skeptical about that.  But if he proves it, then I need to rethink him.  At that speed, and at 6'5 255 with just under 34" arms, that's one of the most impressive physical profiles of the class.  He certainly would have been the best athlete in last year's TE class.  And he's got a history of production.

[Burgundy Yoda]

There are so many things you can do with a player like Zaven Collins to confuse an offense. Not only is he great in coverage, but look how natural he is at rushing the QB on the outside. 

 

[Chump Bailey]

Iowa LB Nick Niemann in the later rounds could be a decent fit for the WFT. Underrated prospect IMO.

[Est.1974]

Trey Lance would be the ideal scenario. That aside,

 

JOK LB

Jamin Davis LB

Jabril Cox LB

Either of the TE’s left ranked 2-4 after Pitts

Jamar Johnson S

Demetric Felton RB/WR

Jamie Newman QB

Alaric Jackson OL

Damonte Coxie WR

Grant Stuard LB

Cole Jenkins - clearly need to include the LS

 

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

Christian Darrisaw

Zaven Collins

Jabril Cox

Liam Eichenberg

Terrace Marshall Jr.

 

Get any two of those guys and I would be happy.

[HigSkin]

🔥

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

49 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

With Long I just want to see if he's faster than he looks.  He's claimed to have run in the 4.5/4.6 range and I find myself skeptical about that.  But if he proves it, then I need to rethink him.  At that speed, and at 6'5 255 with just under 34" arms, that's one of the most impressive physical profiles of the class.  He certainly would have been the best athlete in last year's TE class.  And he's got a history of production.

 

Watching Long, he has long arms and legs (pun intended) and he knows how to use both as a strength -- catch radius and long speed.   To my eyes, it seems to take him awhile to pick up speed but once he finds that next gear it looks like he can motor (relatively speaking for a TE).  So he doesn't strike me as someone like Jordan who can quickly seperate in the flat and fly with YAC.  But he strikes me as someone who might be able to make a living with deep crossers, etc.

 

But yeah like you I want to see his speed.  

[Burgundy Yoda]

 

 

[Commander Wolffe]

4 hours ago, mhd24 said:

Kiper just posted his latest mock.

 

He has us taking Darisow.

 

His o-line (in terms of those being picked) are:

1). Sewell (Minny trades up for him at 9)

2). Slater (LAC at 13)

3). Darrisow (us at 19)

4). AVT (Bears at 20)

5). Eichenberg (KC at 31)

 

Stunner is that he has Jammin Davis to 17 to the Raiders!  Above JOK and Collins.  He clearly has intel and Davis must be a high riser (just like DJ has been saying).  He has Parsons going to Denver (via a trade down) to 14.

 

I saw this with AVT being picked directly after us at 20. Given the positional flex of AVT our staff might like him more. Provides various options for our left side between AVT and Charles.

[Burgundy Yoda]

Wish I could find a tweet on Mac Jones's 40 yard dash. https://www.nfl.com/videos/mac-jones-runs-unofficial-4-85-40-yard-dash-at-alabama-pro-day

 

I think he looks far from a statue in this video. 

[Anselmheifer]

35 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

That’s a really good time for Surtain. Will solidify his draft stock. 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Fresh8686]

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Fresh8686]

How does the board feel about Ihmir as a 3rd or 4th round pick? I love that our team is interested in him. He’s got 4.4 speed, great wing-span, and a strong athletic profile. I love that he’s kind of built like Aiyuk but plays a little like Deebo, he’s great with jet sweeps and can also handle KR/PR duties. 
 

 

[Burgundy Yoda]

Chris Simms's to 6 WR Prospcts: 1. JaMarr Chase 2. Devonta Smith 3. Dyami Brown 4. Jaylen Waddle 5. Kadarius Toney 6. Terrace Marshall Jr. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Vertical is often a good window into athleticism/agility

 

 

 

5 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

Chris Simms's to 6 WR Prospcts: 1. JaMarr Chase 2. Devonta Smith 3. Dyami Brown 4. Jaylen Waddle 5. Kadarius Toney 6. Terrace Marshall Jr. 

 

 

 

Dyami is @KDawg's dude.  I watched him in real time, and liked him but haven't studied him yet.  I am a bigger Marshall guy than some here including @KDawg

 

I'd take Elijah Moore over Toney.  Maybe Rondale too after his pro day.   And I do like Toney.  but I like the Moores better. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Vertical is often a good window into athleticism/agility

 

 

 

 

Dyami is @KDawg's dude.  I watched him in real time, and liked him but haven't studied him yet.  I am a bigger Marshall guy than some here including @KDawg

 

I'd take Elijah Moore over Toney.  Maybe Rondale too after his pro day.   And I do like Toney.  but I like the Moores better. 

I've never heard of him, I know of these other WR prospects because they're 1st and 2nd round types, but Dyami Brown seems like a surprise at 3, is he not? Admittedly, I don't watch a ton of college football and start catching up once it's around draft time for us. 

 

This draft is kind of perfect for us with needs/strength of draft, I wish we had stocked up with more picks in it. 

[Anselmheifer]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Vertical is often a good window into athleticism/agility

 

 

 

 

Dyami is @KDawg's dude.  I watched him in real time, and liked him but haven't studied him yet.  I am a bigger Marshall guy than some here including @KDawg

 

I'd take Elijah Moore over Toney.  Maybe Rondale too after his pro day.   And I do like Toney.  but I like the Moores better. 

Is that not a Tristan Wirfs like athletic profile? Pretty tempting to bring a guy like that in.

[Skinsinparadise]

13 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Is that not a Tristan Wirfs like athletic profile? Pretty tempting to bring a guy like that in.

 

Yeah its an impressive showing. I haven't watched him that closely, now i will.   I'd add I'd be really surprised if we don't take a LT early and probably round 1.  How many drafts do you have this type of depth at that spot?

[Burgundy Yoda]

Unless it's a Calvin Johnson type, you would have a hard time convincing me drafting a WR in the top 5 is good value in the NFL these days. There has been some serious talent at that position coming into the NFL the last 3 years. 

 

Looking at 2019, it looked great with Terry McLaurin, DK Metcalf, and AJ Brown being the top players at the position that year but then you have Hollywood Brown, Deebo Samuel, Diontae Jonhnson, and Darius Slayton who all look like good, potentially strong #2 options. 

 

Fast forward to 2020, it looks even better. Justin Jefferson, Brandon Aiyuk, Ceedee Lamb, Tee Higgins, and Jerry Jeudy (maybe), look like future WR1s. On top of that you have Chase Claypool who definitely has the traits and potential to get there. Plus Jalen Reagor and Henry Ruggs III, who I don't think reach #1 WR status but will be very dangerous. That was an insane WR draft and this one could be even better than that? Wow. It's become a totally cluttered position in the NFL right now, so much value after the top half of the 1st round, it's crazy.