2021 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[PartyPosse]

39 minutes ago, method man said:

What game were you watching? If Wilson falls outside the top 5, I’m trading 2 1sts to move up to grab him. The guy is a franchise QB - I don’t know if he’ll be a top 5 QB in the NFL but I feel very confident he ends up top 12 if he can stay healthy

So you wanna trade two firsts for a guy you hope is a top 12 QB?

 

If you’re giving up that much capital, you better hope he’s a franchise guy, not a fringe pro-bowler.

[GOATFrerotte]

He’s been so fun to watch all year. 

[Skinsinparadise]

7 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Seeing the direction this team is going in, I would be very comfortable taking Smith next year while Alex and Kyle manned the QB spot until we find our next guy to groom. Boy would Devonta Smith add another dimension to the offense....wow. Good God.

 

I've been on the Smith bandwagon for a long time.  I'd still though rather have a QB but if the stars don't align on that front, it is what it is.   If you can get Devonta in the first and his teammate Harris in the 2nd we'd have one heck of an arsenal.     

 

[method man]

9 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

So you wanna trade two firsts for a guy you hope is a top 12 QB?

 

If you’re giving up that much capital, you better hope he’s a franchise guy, not a fringe pro-bowler.

 

The thing is I think there is a higher probability he gets there than many first round prospects. To clarify, I do believe he has top 5 upside but I think it is more likely he ends up top 10-12, which is enough to win a SB. I think what makes the difference for him will be turnovers. With his style of play, I expect he'll throw a few more interceptions than we'd like. If he can avoid turnovers, he has a good shot at top 5. 

 

He has all the core things you look for - mobility, arm strength, accuracy, feel in the pocket, throwing on the run, throwing with anticipation, leadership, work ethic, intangibles, etc. The things he has to work on are things like sliding and throwing the ball away when there is nothing there

 

I also think he can get to good starter level fairly quickly. If he is solid by year 2, you have a 4 year window to load up on other positions to try to win a Super Bowl

Edited December 6, 2020 by method man

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[GOATFrerotte]

Draft Devonta, pick up Martavis Bryant off the street, Devonta, Terry, and Martavis would be so fun to watch.

[mistertim]

3 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I've been on the Smith bandwagon for a long time.  I'd still though rather have a QB but if the stars don't align on that front, it is what it is.   If you can get Devonta in the first and his teammate Harris in the 2nd we'd have one heck of an arsenal.     

 

 

Yeah I certainly would not be upset if we got Smith but only if, as you said, the QB stars don't align. I would just REALLY hope that we'd somehow have a chance to get our QB of the future within the next draft or two. I couldn't stand seeing us having two elite WRs for years that we just couldn't really utilize because we have mediocre-to-****ty QBs. 

[Skinsinparadise]

1 minute ago, mistertim said:

 

Yeah I certainly would not be upset if we got Smith but only if, as you said, the QB stars don't align. I would just REALLY hope that we'd somehow have a chance to get our QB of the future within the next draft or two. I couldn't stand seeing us having two elite WRs for years that we just couldn't really utilize because we have mediocre-to-****ty QBs. 

 

 

[mistertim]

6 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said:

Draft Devonta, pick up Martavis Bryant off the street, Devonta, Terry, and Martavis would be so fun to watch.

 

No they wouldn't. We won't have anyone to throw them the ball. That's like putting $10,000 wheels/tires, a $20,000 full exhaust system, and a $10,000 racing suspension system on a Honda Civic. It will look amazing and you'll get a bit of a performance boost...but you'll still be driving a Honda Civic with a 160 HP engine.

Edited December 6, 2020 by mistertim

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, method man said:

The thing is I think there is a higher probability he gets there than many first round prospects. To clarify, I do believe he has top 5 upside but I think it is more likely he ends up top 10-12, which is enough to win a SB. I think what makes the difference for him will be turnovers. With his style of play, I expect he'll throw a few more interceptions than we'd like. If he can avoid turnovers, he has a good shot at top 5. 

Honestly, how many top 10-12 guys win superbowls? Wentz?

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

No they wouldn't. We won't have anyone to throw them the ball. That's like putting $10,000 wheels/tires, a $20,000 full exhaust system, and a $10,000 racing suspension system on a Honda Civic. It will look amazing and you'll get a bit of a performance boost...but you'll still be driving a Honda Civic with a 160 HP engine.

Honestly, as much as I love Devonta, the receiver in this draft most suitable for Smith’s game is Rashod Bateman.

[KDawg]

I continue to think Lawrence isn’t as untouchable as QB1 as many think. 

[Est.1974]

7 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

What is Devonta Smith on pace for in this game like 400 yards?

He’s looking like he might be #1 WR off the board. Someone top 10 is going to be all over him. 
 

Jones is also looking like a viable QB option. Still not sure of value, could be anywhere from 15-40 at the minute. Tough one to gauge. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

He’s looking like he might be #1 WR off the board. Someone top 10 is going to be all over him. 
 

Jones is also looking like a viable QB option. Still not sure of value, could be anywhere from 15-40 at the minute. Tough one to gauge. 

 

Devonta could be, loved him last season but he's really killing it this year.  I don't think ou can go wrong with him or Chase.

 

As for Mac Jones, he keeps growing on me. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[mhd24]

WRs seem to always fall.  Smith doesn't have elite traits (just the production).  Maybe he slips?

[Going Commando]

10 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

i think Smith might be better.  But I know what you mean as for their styles.  Sounds like you are watching Clemson tonight.  I am glued on the Alabama one and Smith is putting on a clinic.  Big time YAC.  Acrobatic catches.  Deep route TDs.  Everything in the kitchen sink.  It's one of the better games i've ever seen from any college receiver.   and like you i loved him last season but he's taking it up a peg higher this season and today he's been absolutely insane.  The dude looks like Jerry Rice tonight. 

 

Yeah, VT fan in a family of Clemson alums here, I watched that game last night.  It was painful but not unexpected.  Clemson has a way of turning it on in the second half and just pouring it on you when you give them any kind of cracks in your dam.  We were competitive in the first and almost scored to tie on one of the stranger hail-mary plays you'll see.  But the injuries really piled up by the end of the game, including to Darrisaw, relevant for draft thread purposes.

 

Didn't really learn a lot of new takes from that game draft-wise other than Etienne's lack of production this season is starting to become an issue for his draft stock.  I have rock solid belief in his talent, and I think he could be a huge second round value.  He's still piled up tds and receiving yardage though.  He's the best skill player in the class with a chance of going outside the first round IMO.  Lawrence is still a beast.  Kendrick is probably first round worthy.  Amari Rodgers and Cornell Powell are interesting mid round prospects.  They did say during the broadcast that there is a chance Justyn Ross could be back for postseason play, which would be amazing.  But I would be surprised if he did, and I wouldn't expect him to have a big impact even if he did.

 

They kept cutting away in game to Alabama highlights so I saw some of what Smitty did.  They discussed his Heisman candidacy, and I think this might be the year a WR gets it.  Especially if Bama beats Florida in the SEC championship.  Fields won't play enough games and Lawrence missed two.  His main competition if Bama wins out will be his own teammates because I don't think Trash will get it with two losses.

 

Ridley's pro career has been a very mild disappointment to date, but keep in mind he was projected as a top ten pick throughout that college season, and he drew Marvin Harrison comparisons pre-draft.  And Smitty has benefited from playing with Tua and Mac Jones over Hurts.  Hurts doesnt throw that laser into the second row behind the end zone that Smitty lept up and hauled in one handed.  That was ridiculous.  But yeah, I could see him being better than Ridley.  Maybe better even than another similar guy: Stefon Diggs.  Better hands than them, but maybe not as good of YAC wiggle.  I think he'll go higher in the draft than either of them.  Teens with an outside shot at top ten feels right for him.  Twenties would be a massive value pick.  I think it helps his draft stock that Waddle went down and Chase opted out and Rondale Moore and Bateman will play so few games.  It let him shine as the clear best receiver in the country this season instead of scrumming with those four.

 

This is another fabulous receiver class though, with depth that will extend throughout the whole draft.  There could be every chance that the best receivers from the class comes after the first round like in 2019.  That kind of throws a wet blanket on Smitty's draft stock, as well as the idea of taking any receiver in the first really.  I'd do it because I believe in drafting BPA.  But I wouldn't cry about missing out on the top receivers if we got someone like Powell or Brown or Fryfogle or Atwell or even someone like Olave or Marlon Williams from UCF on day two or early day three.  This team needs a better long term QB plan than Alex Smith or Kyle Allen.  I don't think this regime will keep their jobs long term unless they either keep and develop Haskins or draft a guy this year and develop him.  Trying to make a run in the short term with Alex Smith gives you like two years of meh but steady quarterbacking at the most.  It's viable if the defense makes the leap to greatness during that time, but they can not afford for the wheels to come off at QB in year three or four of the regime.

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

 

Didn't really learn a lot of new takes from that game draft-wise other than Etienne's lack of production this season is starting to become an issue for his draft stock.  I have rock solid belief in his talent, and I think he could be a huge second round value.  He's still piled up tds and receiving yardage though.  He's the best skill player in the class with a chance of going outside the first round IMO. 

 

I love Etienne, so explosive and he's developed as a receiving back.  He turns the ball over a bit too much but I think he can work his way through that.  I recall you were mega hyped on N. Harris last year.   My kid is an Alabama fan so I've seen them play 3 games live in recent years and watch everytime they are on TV.  So I have perhaps an affinity for Alabama players out of familarity albeit I know that's like rooting for the Death Star.  😀  but yeah I think I like Harris now better than Etienne.  Before it was the other way around. 

 

As you like to say he has some Derrick Henry power to his game.  He has good hands too. Antonio Gibson was one of my guys before the last draft and still love him but I do think we need another back that complements his skills and I think Harris is perfect for that.  I know some here say using a 2nd rounder is too rich for a RB, I get that point, but not for me when it comes to Harris.  But like always it depends on who else is available at that pick.

 

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Ridley's pro career has been a very mild disappointment to date, but keep in mind he was projected as a top ten pick throughout that college season, and he drew Marvin Harrison comparisons pre-draft.  And Smitty has benefited from playing with Tua and Mac Jones over Hurts.  Hurts doesnt throw that laser into the second row behind the end zone that Smitty lept up and hauled in one handed.  That was ridiculous.  But yeah, I could see him being better than Ridley.  Maybe better even than another similar guy: Stefon Diggs.  Better hands than them, but maybe not as good of YAC wiggle.  I think he'll go higher in the draft than either of them.  Teens with an outside shot at top ten feels right for him.  Twenties would be a massive value pick.  I think it helps his draft stock that Waddle went down and Chase opted out and Rondale Moore and Bateman will play so few games.  It let him shine as the clear best receiver in the country this season instead of scrumming with those four.

 

Agree. 

 

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

This is another fabulous receiver class though, with depth that will extend throughout the whole draft.  There could be every chance that the best receivers from the class comes after the first round like in 2019.  That kind of throws a wet blanket on Smitty's draft stock, as well as the idea of taking any receiver in the first really.  I'd do it because I believe in drafting BPA.  But I wouldn't cry about missing out on the top receivers if we got someone like Powell or Brown or Fryfogle or Atwell or even someone like Olave or Marlon Williams from UCF on day two or early day three.  

 

Feel the same way.  I haven't dived into the receivers yet so I am just going on real time watching for now.  I love Karadrius Toney as a slot receiver. Explosive, play maker.

 

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

This team needs a better long term QB plan than Alex Smith or Kyle Allen.  I don't think this regime will keep their jobs long term unless they either keep and develop Haskins or draft a guy this year and develop him.  Trying to make a run in the short term with Alex Smith gives you like two years of meh but steady quarterbacking at the most.  It's viable if the defense makes the leap to greatness during that time, but they can not afford for the wheels to come off at QB in year three or four of the regime.

 

I agree I am not wild about what's cooking at QB.   Our window for having a cheap stellar D line isn't going to last forever.  Ditto having McLaurin on a cheap contract.  It would be an absolute waste I think to look back at the young talent and say hey we peaked at 9-7 with it because of medicore QB play.  To me fixing the QB position is #1 mission.

 

I get the whole game manager drill with Alex where we can do enough to sneak into the playoffs.  But the dude has a 2-5 record in the playoffs.  He can't IMO compete with the big boy QBs for the most part.   I bet we will have a game or two that make us feel great with him where we beat a good team.  But overall, I don't see this team being a threat in the playoffs.   The irony is according to some KC observers that is exactly why they wanted to move on from Alex in KC. They wanted to get both cheaper and better at QB.

 

In this regime's shoes, no way would I look at this off season with Qb on the backburner and just try to load up on the supporting cast and figure in time the QB will come.  I don't know if Rivera is on a short leash or not, I suspect he isn't.  But I don't think we have 3 years to wait this out for other reasons.  We won't be able to exploit this D line if we don't address QB.  I think the Jets years back is a great case in point they had a loaded young D line but the end result was they had to break it up and ended up winning nothing.  i don't want that to be us. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[GOATFrerotte]

Trask is growing on me. He's having a Burrow like season. Just precision passing. 

[Going Commando]

15 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I love Etienne, so explosive and he's developed as a receiving back.  He turns the ball over a bit too much but I think he can work his way through that.  I recall you were mega hyped on N. Harris last year.   My kid is an Alabama fan so I've seen them play 3 games live in recent years and watch everytime they are on TV.  So I have perhaps an affinity for Alabama players out of familarity albeit I know that's like rooting for the Death Star.  😀  but yeah I think I like Harris now better than Etienne.  Before it was the other way around. 

 

As you like to say he has some Derrick Henry power to his game.  He has good hands too. Antonio Gibson was one of my guys before the last draft and still love him but I do think we need another back that complements his skills and I think Harris is perfect for that.  I know some here say using a 2nd rounder is too rich for a RB, I get that point, but not for me when it comes to Harris.  But like always it depends on who else is available at that pick.

 

For me, Etienne is Dalvin Cook and Harris is LeVeon Bell.  You're good with either.  Actually Etienne might be a rich man's Dalvin Cook when you add their college careers up.  He'll graduate as the best running back in the history of the ACC, so he's a rare one.  It would be amazing to get either of these guys, but running back is like receiver in that you can still get high level players on day two and early day three.  This looks like a pretty good class too despite losing Journey Brown 😟.  I'd be stoked about one of those two, or Chuba Hubbard, but I think we could also do really well with a later guy like Jermar Jefferson or Max Borghi or that unbelievable kid from Buffalo.

 

If Borghi comes out in this class, he's one to watch for us in particular.  It's hard not to draw comparisons to McCaffrey with him, and I don't think he'd be going early in the draft because he had a back injury before the season that has basically cost him his season.

 

24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Feel the same way.  I haven't dived into the receivers yet so I am just going on real time watching for now.  I love Karadrius Toney as a slot receiver. Explosive, play maker.

 

He's been impressive too.  I haven't watched all of the receivers yet, but I've gotten a good read on several.  This is a really really good receiver class too.  Maybe even as good as last year's.  We've got to get someone from this class, particularly since I don't feel like we took advantage of last year's bumper crop.

 

I would normally be in lockstep about the need to get a QB since I am a believer in the philosophy that the QB is the first piece of the foundation for a successful regime.  But I think there is a weird and rare set of contingencies in play here to where going in a different direction might still work out:

 

- The division is in major turmoil and pretty much laid out the red carpet for us to take it.

- Alex Smith is a capable vet who can helm a winning team and probably gives us like a two year window.

- We still have Haskins in the building, and unless someone gives us an unexpectedly good offer for him, we might as well try and develop him in the mean time.

- The DL is like a year away from being the best in the NFL, and there is a real chance the unit could make the leap to championship caliber next season.

- This draft class is loaded with skill talent that is probably good enough to make an early impact.

- We have a pretty good amount of cap space and could improve rapidly because of that.

 

If Rivera can get back to the Superbowl next year or the year after, or maybe just even have a great season where he wins 12+ games and gets a high seed, then I think he can buy his regime enough time to get to quarterback #2.  That's kind of how the Andy Reid regime did it in KC.  So drafting one of these QBs isn't his only viable path forward.  It's risky either way, but give Alex Smith a dominant defense and then some weapons like Kyle Pitts or Rondale Moore + Etienne/Harris to go along with McLaurin and Gibson and you've got the ingredients to make a run in 2021 or 2022.

[JoggingGod]

44 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Ridley's pro career has been a very mild disappointment to date,

Excuse me, what? Ridley was drafted as a WR2 in Atlanta and he's been one of the best at that role in the league. If  he was a primary target he'd be getting 1K with ease.

[Going Commando]

4 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

Excuse me, what? Ridley was drafted as a WR2 in Atlanta and he's been one of the best at that role in the league. If  he was a primary target he'd be getting 1K with ease.

 

I posted that, not SIP.  He was the top prospect in his class in 2018.  I stand by my claim that he's been mildly disappointing given the lack of top end production and the fact that DJ Moore has been better than him and Courtland Sutton and DJ Chark have already made probowls and they're a couple years younger than him.  I think playing with Julio Jones has helped Ridley, not hindered him.  He pretty much never sees a safety and just gets to do his thing and pile up long TDs running through empty deep zones.

[Skinsinparadise]

21 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

For me, Etienne is Dalvin Cook and Harris is LeVeon Bell.  You're good with either.  Actually Etienne might be a rich man's Dalvin Cook when you add their college careers up.  He'll graduate as the best running back in the history of the ACC, so he's a rare one.  It would be amazing to get either of these guys, but running back is like receiver in that you can still get high level players on day two and early day three.  This looks like a pretty good class too despite losing Journey Brown 😟.  I'd be stoked about one of those two, or Chuba Hubbard, but I think we could also do really well with a later guy like Jermar Jefferson or Max Borghi or that unbelievable kid from Buffalo.

 

 

Good analogy.  I was a huge Dalvin Cook fan, gushed about him on the thread back then.  Ironically I recall the rap about him too was turnovers.

 

21 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I would normally be in lockstep about the need to get a QB since I am a believer in the philosophy that the QB is the first piece of the foundation for a successful regime.  But I think there is a weird and rare set of contingencies in play here to where going in a different direction might still work out:

 

- The division is in major turmoil and pretty much laid out the red carpet for us to take it.

- Alex Smith is a capable vet who can helm a winning team and probably gives us like a two year window.

- We still have Haskins in the building, and unless someone gives us an unexpectedly good offer for him, we might as well try and develop him in the mean time.

- The DL is like a year away from being the best in the NFL, and there is a real chance the unit could make the leap to championship caliber next season.

- This draft class is loaded with skill talent that is probably good enough to make an early impact.

- We have a pretty good amount of cap space and could improve rapidly because of that.

 

If Rivera can get back to the Superbowl next year or the year after, or maybe just even have a great season where he wins 12+ games and gets a high seed, then I think he can buy his regime enough time to get to quarterback #2.  That's kind of how the Andy Reid regime did it in KC.  So drafting one of these QBs isn't his only viable path forward.  It's risky either way, but give Alex Smith a dominant defense and then some weapons like Kyle Pitts or Rondale Moore + Etienne/Harris to go along with McLaurin and Gibson and you've got the ingredients to make a run in 2021 or 2022.

 

I think the Giants are emerging.  It's the perfect draft for them to load up on weapons which IMO they are missing.  they need IMO a #1 receiver and a big time pass rusher.  I don't think Daniel Jones is anything great but i also don't think he's the scrub that some others on this board see him as.    I think he is a decent player.  The Eagles have a good defense as usual.  Their O line is banged up as is their receiver corp.  If they end up with J. Chase, I think that would be a godsend for them.  They need a #1 receiver IMO and a healthier O line.

 

Dallas needs to bring back Dak. Can you imagine if they for example get Kyle Pitts considering there other weapons.  They'd have challenges with the cap I presume though in keeping Dak.

 

I think a big off season would do wonders for this team.  I guess for me it pains me to be limited with Alex Smith.  I just don't think the Trent Dilfer types win SBs anymore and even then it was a rare feat and that's why through this day Dilfer is still talked about.  

 

While I think this team could be good with Alex.  I just think greatness will escape us.  and I don't want to be like the Jets looking back years later saying hey remember when we had over the years dudes like Leonard Williams, M. Wilkerson, Snacks, Sheldon Richardson.  We were so young and talented -- so what happened?  What happened is QB.  They even had spurts there with stud receivers, Brandon Marshall and Eric Decker had years where they put up monster numbers.  In that end that era produced one 10 win season. and by and large it was a yawn era albeit a fun defensive front. 

 

Don't get me wrong I am not saying force a move at QB.  I am saying thinking long and hard to see if you could do what the Chiefs did for example -- if they have a target they love, then chase down that target within reason.   You add a killer QB to this roster (upgrade the roster with the rest of the draft and FA) and i think we can contend for a SB soon IMO.

 

We agree on a lot. i know we disagree on Haskins.  But even if I saw Haskins your way, I keep hearing/reading the staff isn't enamored with Haskins.  Will see.  But I suspect he might be gone this off season. 

 

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/1821888-believe-it-or-not-the-new-york-jets-defensive-line-is-the-nfls-best

Believe It or Not, the New York Jets' Defensive Line Is the NFL's Best

It's not as if the Jets defensive line is comprised of seasoned NFL veterans, either. The four starters have a combined four full years of NFL experience (not counting 2013): one rookie, two players in their second year, and one more in his third year.

 

 

Edited December 6, 2020 by Skinsinparadise

[JoggingGod]

The Eagles are in a really bad spot in 2021. Like really bad. They're like $70 million over the cap and have holes in a lot of places. 

[Skinsinparadise]

6 minutes ago, JoggingGod said:

The Eagles are in a really bad spot in 2021. Like really bad. They're like $70 million over the cap and have holes in a lot of places. 

 

I just looked, yeah they are in trouble and Dallas has more cap space than I thought. 

[Burgundy Yoda]

1 hour ago, JoggingGod said:

The Eagles are in a really bad spot in 2021. Like really bad. They're like $70 million over the cap and have holes in a lot of places. 

Yep, that's what happens when you can't draft and have to rely on trades and Free Agency. Eventually it all catches up to a team and thats what we're seeing now. Howie Roseman is God-awful at drafting and always has been, I hope the Eagles keep him around forever.