Fresh8686 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 My biggest question with Zach Wilson is how does his creativity and ball placement handle making the jump to the NFL? There are things he can do and short cuts/predetermination's he can get away with in games that either won't work or be nearly as easy in the NFL. I love what he's showing so far but does he have the fortitude that Joe Burrow is showing to hang in there and grow on an undermanned Bengals team? Everybody wants to be the next Patrick Mahomes, but I think they underestimate how much he handles to make the things he does look easy. The NFL will punch you in the face if you try get cute with stuff like that, before you get your foundation adapted to the jump in speed/complexity/competition. I think on certain teams/environments Zach can handle that jump, but others will fry him or get him injured which will derail his growth process. Rookie QB's need something to lean on while handling the NFL learning curve, and he doesn't have the elite athleticism others lean on to adjust. He needs a team that will have the pieces in place to shelter his creativity and ball placement, because if he loses confidence in those I don't know how he'll make forward progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said: My biggest question with Zach Wilson is how does his creativity and ball placement handle making the jump to the NFL? There are things he can do and short cuts/predetermination's he can get away with in games that either won't work or be nearly as easy in the NFL. I love what he's showing so far but does he have the fortitude that Joe Burrow is showing to hang in there and grow on an undermanned Bengals team? Everybody wants to be the next Patrick Mahomes, but I think they underestimate how much he handles to make the things he does look easy. The NFL will punch you in the face if you try get cute with stuff like that, before you get your foundation adapted to the jump in speed/complexity/competition. I think on certain teams/environments Zach can handle that jump, but others will fry him or get him injured which will derail his growth process. Rookie QB's need something to lean on while handling the NFL learning curve, and he doesn't have the elite athleticism others lean on to adjust. He needs a team that will have the pieces in place to shelter his creativity and ball placement, because if he loses confidence in those I don't know how he'll make forward progress. I waffle on Lance vs. Wilson right now for QB3. I really like the way Lance's game translates. But he's going to need more learning time and adjustment time I think. Picking him means your first round pick needs to be an after thought in season 1... and we all know how the modern day NFL works where team's don't have that kind of patience. If Lance is the pick for us, and Rivera is patient and waits to play him until he is ready (game 1, game 8, game 20, game 33... whenever that is) then I will feel good about the pick given the apparent potential in Lance. If he is thrown to the wolves too early, though, it's going to be a problem. Wilson I think is more ready day 1 to take the reigns. I think he's going to take some lumps, but he has plenty of experience and can learn from it. I think he has a higher floor than Lance but not the same ceiling. I like a lot of what Wilson brings, but there are things that I see that make me wonder how he translates (much like you). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh8686 Posted November 9, 2020 Share Posted November 9, 2020 Yup, I'm pretty much in the same place as you with the two @KDawg. I have some initial feelings about them in a vacuum when it comes to ranking, but then when I ask the specific question of how each one fits with our team and what we have available for them I run into a knot of uncertainty. Which I gotta dive deeper on to figure out the best route for both the short and long term. Do we have a team that would allow Zach to hit the ground running or do we need to be humble and realize it will take another year to have enough of a foundation to reliably run all three levels of an offense? If that is the case, it might be smarter to go with the longer developing, higher upside guy whose athleticism allows for a bit of leverage on that QB growth process in Trey Lance. Really, I wish we had a better shot at Justin Fields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead36 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I don't believe in drafting guys in the 1st round that have to wait a year. Nowadays everyone comes in right away and at the very least shows some flashes. Yes everyone points to Mahomes but that was an exception since Alex Smith played at an MVP level that year(and honestly I bet Mahomes could have probably come in year 1 and done just fine). That's why I stay away from Lance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Warhead36 said: I don't believe in drafting guys in the 1st round that have to wait a year. Nowadays everyone comes in right away and at the very least shows some flashes. Yes everyone points to Mahomes but that was an exception since Alex Smith played at an MVP level that year(and honestly I bet Mahomes could have probably come in year 1 and done just fine). That's why I stay away from Lance. They could bring him along like the Ravens did Lamar Jackson as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Riggo#44 said: They could bring him along like the Ravens did Lamar Jackson as well. This fanbase isn’t patient enough to wait for a QB to develop on the bench. We deserve someone who can step in and play right away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malapropismic Depository Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 3 hours ago, method man said: This fanbase isn’t patient enough to wait for a QB to develop on the bench. And the Head Coach too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanburgerHelper55 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 FOR ME HERE IS THE KEY. THE NEXT TWO QB CLASSES AFTER THIS ONE SEEM REALLY WEAK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Malapropismic Depository said: And the Head Coach too We don’t know this, to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 I think if we’re talking QBs, we also need to focus on the type of character and work ethic these prospects display/are on record as having. That will be an integral part of the selection you would think, unlike in previous drafts... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 31 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said: I think if we’re talking QBs, we also need to focus on the type of character and work ethic these prospects display/are on record as having. That will be an integral part of the selection you would think, unlike in previous drafts... By all current reports... all four are guys with character, work ethic, great preparation. We should start seeing more in depth reports in this stuff soon, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 4 hours ago, HanburgerHelper55 said: FOR ME HERE IS THE KEY. THE NEXT TWO QB CLASSES AFTER THIS ONE SEEM REALLY WEAK. I haven’t looked into it but there will be a few guys who start emerging later this year or next year 2 hours ago, KDawg said: By all current reports... all four are guys with character, work ethic, great preparation. We should start seeing more in depth reports in this stuff soon, though. Yep. I agree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 If I was Trevor; do I really want to play for the Jets. It’s only been 3-4 years since they drafted Sam Darnold and things didn’t work out with him. Sam may still have a career but it won’t in NY. I may refuse to play for the Jets or come back and come out in 22. Trevor would probably still be the #1 pick in 22. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 27 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: If I was Trevor; do I really want to play for the Jets. It’s only been 3-4 years since they drafted Sam Darnold and things didn’t work out with him. Sam may still have a career but it won’t in NY. I may refuse to play for the Jets or come back and come out in 22. Trevor would probably still be the #1 pick in 22. Depends on who they get as their next coach. A lot of what is going on can't be blamed on their current GM Joe Douglas as he didn't hire Gase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
86 Snyder Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 30 minutes ago, Rdskns2000 said: If I was Trevor; do I really want to play for the Jets. It’s only been 3-4 years since they drafted Sam Darnold and things didn’t work out with him. Sam may still have a career but it won’t in NY. I may refuse to play for the Jets or come back and come out in 22. Trevor would probably still be the #1 pick in 22. He has more power than any prospect aside from Peyton, Luck, and Elway. If I were him I'd make it crystal clear I'm not playing for the Jets and they should trade the pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
method man Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said: He has more power than any prospect aside from Peyton, Luck, and Elway. If I were him I'd make it crystal clear I'm not playing for the Jets and they should trade the pick. He could do it but, if he succeeds in NYJ, that is potentially a very huge opportunity for him in terms of being able to generate marketing dollars too. It's not like he'd be going to the Browns. Before he declares anything, he gets to see who the new coach is, who they add in terms of skill talent, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Zach has some personality judging by that interview. One of my concerns about him is injuries, he really puts his body on the line and he doesn't look like he has the body frame to withstand the punishment. But I am definitely intrigued. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Bruggler with a new top 50, here is the top 15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo#44 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 10 hours ago, method man said: This fanbase isn’t patient enough to wait for a QB to develop on the bench. We deserve someone who can step in and play right away I'd rather have Mahomes or Jackson. Listening to the emotional reactions of fans is the worst way to run a team--which is precisely how Snyder runs this team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berggy9598 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 7 hours ago, HanburgerHelper55 said: FOR ME HERE IS THE KEY. THE NEXT TWO QB CLASSES AFTER THIS ONE SEEM REALLY WEAK. Not remotely true as things currently stand but it's too early to tell either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Just watched a couple of games of Jeremiah Koramoah. I read about the comparisons to Simmons and Chinn. I was a big cheerleader here for Chinn last draft and he's off to a hot start as a rookie. Koramoah reminds me more of Chinn than Simmons. That is, he's more about playing closer to the line of scrimmage than playing back like Simmons often did. He's also more of a violent hitter in the mold of Chinn than Simmons. He rushes the passer though a lot like Simmons did. The good IMO: He has highlight explosive type of violent tackles which are fun watches. Like Sean Taylor in his heyday but not on his level. But he plays with gusto and it looks like he enjoys hitting. He mostly just relies on his motor but he still is a good pass rusher because of his relentless style. In the two games I watched, they rushed him a lot. Even more than what LSU did with Patrick Queen. They move him like a chess piece -- inside, left, right, delayed blitzes, you name it. And he brings pressure. Seemed all right defending tight ends but didn't see a large sample to judge He brings down his target typically -- strong tackler. Versatile. They line him up at safety, OLB, ILB, Edge. He looks like a really good athlete The bad IMO: Like Chinn did in college, he plays a bit wild with reckless abandon where he overruns plays and in turn gets washed out of the action For a dude who is a violent hitter he outright whiffs on too many tackles. Can come off as a bit of a homerun/strike out hitter in that way as to tackling shades of Laron Landry I didn't see enough to assure me he's good in coverage. In those 2 games, I left with the feeling of just not knowing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Now that Trump lost, the Jets owner will be coming back from his ambassador job. His brother had been running things. I expect Woody to make the hire on a coach and GM, if he decides on a new GM. Then the Jets will go from there. Trevor should refuse to play there. The Jets didn't develop Sam Darnold and he was highly thought of when he came out. Trevor isn't likely to have success there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 On 11/9/2020 at 11:24 AM, Fresh8686 said: My biggest question with Zach Wilson is how does his creativity and ball placement handle making the jump to the NFL? There are things he can do and short cuts/predetermination's he can get away with in games that either won't work or be nearly as easy in the NFL. I love what he's showing so far but does he have the fortitude that Joe Burrow is showing to hang in there and grow on an undermanned Bengals team? Everybody wants to be the next Patrick Mahomes, but I think they underestimate how much he handles to make the things he does look easy. The NFL will punch you in the face if you try get cute with stuff like that, before you get your foundation adapted to the jump in speed/complexity/competition. Agree. I've mentioned the same thing in recent weeks. His maneuverability in the pocket looks like straight out of a video game. Can that translate to the NFL? Maybe. He reminds me on that front like Romo who despite not being fast was really elusive in the pocket. No doubt Zach Wilson has really quick feet and looks to be a better athlete than Romo. But what happens when he is playing against a rabid type of defense with much better atheltes than he is facing now? Mahomes has a rocket. Zach doesn't. I want to talk myself into Zach in part because I suspect we will be out of the range of getting Fields. I think I've mostly talked myself into rolling the dice on him. He has elements to his game that is a mystery to me as to how it translates to the NFL. But that comes with the turf if you typically go for the 3th-4th most higly regarded QB in the draft versus the top 2. At the moment my biggest fear about him is injuries, he really puts his body on the line via the style he plays. Tracking the draft forever like most people here. I find it funny when some of these draft geek types talk about Zach is now in the first round conversation. To me, Brugler is likely much more on the mark ranking him at #6 and saying NFL people are telling him he might go higher than that. When its all said and done, QBs with hype like Wilson aren't late first round prospects. The QB position is the most coveted one in the league by a mile. If Wilson keeps playing up to his hype, I'd bet he goes top 5. What I like the most about Zach is his competitive-never say die style the way he plays. I can see teams rallying behind a dude like that. And I value mobility and he certainly has that. i am back and forth on his arm strength but I think he has enough. His ball placement is good -- out routes, in routes, intermediate, deep. His touch and accuracy to me is inconsistent with his throws in the flat. I have some concerns with his zip on some of his tighter window type throws in the intermediate part of the field. But overall his accruacy IMO is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Comrade2000 Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 What's the QB prospects for Rounds 2-4? I prefer to spend that first pick on o-line and if we are to take a QB, take it Round 2 or later. I am still of the belief Ron wants to veteran next year to be our starter and yes, Cam Newton is possibility. Maybe we trade for Matt Stafford? Sign an aged Phillip Rivers? I just feel Ron wants to be establish at the QB position before letting a young QB take the long term reigns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommanderInTheRye Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 11 hours ago, method man said: This fanbase isn’t patient enough to wait for a QB to develop on the bench. We deserve someone who can step in and play right away NOT TRUE! I am disciplined enough to patiently wait until the third or fourth game for him to start and perform like a pro bowler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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