Welcome to the Redskins Antonio Gibson, RB/WR Memphis

[moondog]

10 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's the weak link on the coaching staff.  The offense was beyond a mess last season, it was a dumpster fire and Turner did a horrible job.  And we lost Moses and we're staring down losing Scherff next season.  Those two and Roullier were some of the only good parts of that side of the ball.  It bugs me that we aren't able to keep our best offensive player when we had cap space in a time when almost nobody else did.

 

We have coaching issues on that side of the ball and we have average to below league average talent at basically every spot in the rotation except WR.  But even good players struggle under bad coaching and scheming.  An average offense this season would be a good outcome, and I'm hopefuly they can find enough things they can do well to avoid spoiling the effort of what looks like a special defense.

Dude this isn’t an argument with your thoughts on Turner. But I think you’re being a bit overdramatic about a lot here. 
 

O-line: Interior got better.  Scherff will be gone at age 31. We added Flowers. He’s an upgrade to Schweitzer who bumps to swing interior. Roullier is locked up. Worst case Schweitzer is RG next year with Flowers at left but FA and draft give us options. Martin will be left off. Tackle is at worst a push. Rivera believes in his picks and Cosmi has already shown some promise. With Leno at LT and Cosmi at RT with Lucas as swing that’s no worse. Arguably better. Did we have better depth with Moses? Sure. But we aren’t worse. And I think Cosmi will be an improvement as will Leno. 
 

TE: Thomas will be as good or better. The rest is mostly a push but I think Bates as #2 is an improvement over last year. 
 

WR: we went into last year with almost a full squad of undrafted guys plus Inman. No argument here. Vastly better. 
 

RB: Gibson will be better. Depth is a concern just like last year. As a group better but depth is a concern. I hope Patterson beats out Barber. 
 

QB: Easy. 
 

The offense is better with better depth across the board. 
 

Turner needs to prove he can show progress with better personnel. 

[dyst]

How can anyone be down on Scott Turner based on last year?

 

We had legitimate trash for QB in Haskins and a gimpy QB who was done for 2 years ago.

 

A 3rd round WR turned RB drafted way to high from a small school.

 

1 WR and a bunch of 3rd (at best stringers)

 

A QB turned TE

 

…and a line with a bunch of nobodies (save for maybe Brandon).

 

Scott did an amazing job simply due to having to work with that and in particular the trash QB room.

Edited July 6, 2021 by dyst

[XxSpearheadxX]

@dyst You don't think Gibson was a good value where he was drafted? 

[wit33]

I was happy to finally to have an offense that was unpredictable with the run and pass and seemed willing to change game plans up week to week. This season I’ll be a bit more critical on some other areas. 

[dyst]

5 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

@dyst You don't think Gibson was a good value where he was drafted? 

Gibson was great for us. Talent-wise and value-wise. However, still doesn’t take away from the fact that Scott Turner had to take this WR turned RB and make the offense work. 

[Going Commando]

The offense actually got slightly worse from 2019 to 2020.  They went from 30th in DVOA to 32nd.  They were arguably the worst offense in the NFL and certainly the worst passing game, and a worse passing game than the year before.  And that video points out the schematic issues in the run game too pretty well. 

 

Lots of teams struggle with their QBs and have injuries or skill talent issues, but usually running the worst unit in the NFL gets coaches fired.  The offense better significantly improve this season, given how bad they were last year.  And yet that still won't necessarily mean the offense is good and that Turner doesn't still suck.  My concern is that we're going to waste too many years of a championship caliber defense before we accept the fact that we need to get way better on offense, not just with players, but coaches too.

[Koolblue13]

16 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The offense actually got slightly worse from 2019 to 2020.  They went from 30th in DVOA to 32nd.  They were arguably the worst offense in the NFL and certainly the worst passing game, and a worse passing game than the year before.  And that video points out the schematic issues in the run game too pretty well. 

 

Lots of teams struggle with their QBs and have injuries or skill talent issues, but usually running the worst unit in the NFL gets coaches fired.  The offense better significantly improve this season, given how bad they were last year.  And yet that still won't necessarily mean the offense is good and that Turner doesn't still suck.  My concern is that we're going to waste too many years of a championship caliber defense before we accept the fact that we need to get way better on offense, not just with players, but coaches too.

The next two seasons are going to be about the best we'll be for a long time again, so might as well cover your eyes and buy in.

[London Kev]

I've been a bit underwhelmed with Turner so far but am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, mainly because of the previous QB situation.

 

I think that I read (on here?) that we used the most number of different formations in the league. I still don't know what to make of that but it doesn't seem like something a coach with a solid plan in place would be doing.

 

I think the offense is better than last year; QB and WR are a lot better, TE and RB are slightly better and OL is a wash. Turner had better step up and produce this season because I think his job is on the line.

[XxSpearheadxX]

47 minutes ago, dyst said:

Gibson was great for us. Talent-wise and value-wise. However, still doesn’t take away from the fact that Scott Turner had to take this WR turned RB and make the offense work. 

Right I thought I misunderstood you, and you are right. As talented as Gibson is (and he is quite) he was every bit as raw. 

[Koolblue13]

24 minutes ago, London Kev said:

I've been a bit underwhelmed with Turner so far but am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, mainly because of the previous QB situation.

 

I think that I read (on here?) that we used the most number of different formations in the league. I still don't know what to make of that but it doesn't seem like something a coach with a solid plan in place would be doing.

 

I think the offense is better than last year; QB and WR are a lot better, TE and RB are slightly better and OL is a wash. Turner had better step up and produce this season because I think his job is on the line.

Thats bizarre, because his offense is supposed to be run multiple plays out of similar formations and movements, to stall the defense. 

[Warhead36]

This is the same fanbase that ran out Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan. I'm sorry but I just don't buy the notion that its always the OC's fault. Sometimes your players just suck.

[Koolblue13]

I am fully on board with Turner.

 

 

[NeverSurrender]

15 hours ago, PlayAction said:

The QB that started for most of the season had to retire; the team had only one proven WR; the starting TE had never produced prior to his stint at Washington; and the starting RB was a rookie who had never played the position.  I wouldn't evaluate Turner's performance in Year 1.    

To add to this, I think there were times that our offense was rolling pretty good however the was some stretches of really bad play calling.  I do think a lot of this comes down to our limited QB options.  Even Alex only had a few healthy games and when his leg got hurt we couldn't do much at all.  Then we saw Taylor come in a basically shred the eventual superbowl champs Defense which was #3 in the league with no running game.  Im definitely open to seeing what this offense can do with a functional QB.  I also like the misdirection and unpredictability we showed "AT TIMES" last year. 

[London Kev]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

Thats bizarre, because his offense is supposed to be run multiple plays out of similar formations and movements, to stall the defense. 

You're right. I was sure that I saw a bar chart that SIP posted in the OTA thread, but I went back fifteen pages and couldn't find it, Maybe I dreamt it or made it up 🤷‍♂️.

[Going Commando]

3 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

The next two seasons are going to be about the best we'll be for a long time again, so might as well cover your eyes and buy in.

 

Please don't let this offseason be the emotional high point of the era for us fans.  I've got to believe that we can eventually compete at the highest level in order to sustain my passion for following the team.

[Koolblue13]

Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Please don't let this offseason be the emotional high point of the era for us fans.  I've got to believe that we can eventually compete at the highest level in order to sustain my passion for following the team.

I'm pretty sure that will be next season.

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

2 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

I'm pretty sure that will be next season.

 

I agree as well, assuming you mean "next season" as the 2022 season.  I think this year we'll end up 9-8 or maybe 10-7, compete for (but fall just short of) a Wild Card, then be ready to make the next leap forward in the 2022 season.

 

 

[Koolblue13]

4 minutes ago, ColonialWBSkinsFan said:

 

I agree as well, assuming you mean "next season" as the 2022 season.  I think this year we'll end up 9-8 or maybe 10-7, compete for (but fall just short of) a Wild Card, then be ready to make the next leap forward in the 2022 season.

 

 

I mean next this season will be our best for a while, so the optimism next offseason will be really high.

[wit33]

Forget all the other stats, if Fitz/Taylor & Turner get the team to 26 points per game next season, we can begin to dream. The defense is ready (outside of dominating in run defense). 

 

[joeken24]

Interesting and somewhat alarming video. I'll definitely have my eye on this guy's channel. I'll also be interested to hear a real sports reporter ask Turner about this and what his plan is to improve moving into next year. That is the line of questioning I'd like to see and hear. All the questions about how a grown ass man feels, what his thoughts are on social issues and how he feels about Dan not being in the building (which you know is coming), is ****ing bull**** IMO. This analysis is what I think a football enthusiast wants. I'm old enough to know how I feel about COVIT test and every other polarizing element. I don't need a sports personalities view. Its ****ing meaningless if I'm coming to watch a football game. But I digress. Hope Gibson improves along with a solidified and effective scheme. If they do, this year is going to be fun!

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

I'm neutral on Turner heading into 2021.

 

He was rocky as the season progressed, Rivera had to give him some play calling advice at halftime.  But we did do halftime adjustments unlike Gruden.  We tied, I think the Chiefs for leading the NFL in 2nd half points scored.  But were also dead last in the 1st half.

 

Part of why I'm neutral is just how at odds each of the QB's were with what reads and looks they liked throwing to.  So some play calls are solid for one QB but bad for others. 

 

Just removing that awkwardness should make things easier for any OC.  This is, I think, a "are you ready yet" year for Turner.

 

One other thing that helps the OC, is a QB like Fitzpatrick.  That doesn't mean Turner suddenly "gets it" if Fitz is audibling to attack a defenses pre-snap look.

[86 Snyder]

12 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

The offense actually got slightly worse from 2019 to 2020.  They went from 30th in DVOA to 32nd.  They were arguably the worst offense in the NFL and certainly the worst passing game, and a worse passing game than the year before.  And that video points out the schematic issues in the run game too pretty well. 

 

Lots of teams struggle with their QBs and have injuries or skill talent issues, but usually running the worst unit in the NFL gets coaches fired.  The offense better significantly improve this season, given how bad they were last year.  And yet that still won't necessarily mean the offense is good and that Turner doesn't still suck.  My concern is that we're going to waste too many years of a championship caliber defense before we accept the fact that we need to get way better on offense, not just with players, but coaches too.

 

1- DVOA is far from the end all, be all

 

but even if you decide it is...

 

2- why do you think that is???  What could it be, what could it be...

 

OH! Perhaps its rolling Dwayne Trashkins along with other completely inept talent at the most important position in sports.

 

And theyve upgraded that spot from dumpster fire to league average, along with completely revamping the incredibly shaky WR room.

 

But if you happen to suffer from permanent take-lock on Trashkins, its an understandable destination to arrive at.

 

On thread: Gibson is going to explode this year, so long as he remains pretty healthy, for all the above reasons.  Which is further reason why taking Najee or Ettiene would have been incredibly stupid.

Edited July 7, 2021 by 86 Snyder

[Califan007 The Constipated]

19 hours ago, dyst said:

…and a line with a bunch of nobodies (save for maybe Brandon).

 

Roullier is hardly a "nobody"...

[wit33]

1 hour ago, Califan007 said:

 

Roullier is hardly a "nobody"...

Can you be just solid/good and a “somebody” on the Oline?

Edited July 7, 2021 by wit33

[mudhog]

13 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Thats bizarre, because his offense is supposed to be run multiple plays out of similar formations and movements, to stall the defense. 

Absolutely right. I suggest anyone down on Turner for last year go to YouTube and watch Street Scores with your boy Rico for a breakdown of what Rivera and Turner faced in evaluating and teaching/coaching young rooks and a new team in general with no preseason to speak of. To be criticizing Turner at this point is damn shortsighted, and not what I would expect from this crowd. 

Now that being said, I feel that we will see quite an upgrade in play-calling this year, though with some early growing pains. Not calling Turner a savant at this point, but as KB stated, Turner has quite a complex offense he runs from similar formations.