Welcome to the Redskins Antonio Gibson, RB/WR Memphis

[Die Hard]

On 6/13/2021 at 7:34 AM, Koolblue13 said:

I still think he has Faulk/Edge type potential. Maybe not at that level, but I think he could really be special. He's our Run CMC.

 

[Bifflog]

I just thought this was an awesome video:

 

 

[The Rook]

That IS a good video and analysis.  This doesn't speak well of Scott and the Oline coaching. Look to have some more growing pains on the re-vamped O-line.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Burgundy Yoda]

I am not super impressed with Scott Turner and that video definitely does not help me feel any better about him. 

[Bifflog]

I think more downfield passing threat can help smooth over some blemishes in the running scheme.  But yeah, it needs to have more identity in year 2 or it could become a problem.

[RandyHolt]

When I hear of a coaches son I often wonder if they would have made it without the name.  His play calling makes me Norvous.

[Koolblue13]

8 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I am not super impressed with Scott Turner and that video definitely does not help me feel any better about him. 

Why is it on Turner that guys aren't executing? Gibson was a first year back and it was a most;y new line.

[Burgundy Yoda]

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

Why is it on Turner that guys aren't executing? Gibson was a first year back and it was a most;y new line.

It really isn't an issue of execution IMO. He wasn't impressive at Carolina either 

[PlayAction]

15 hours ago, The Rook said:

That IS a good video and analysis.  This doesn't speak well of Scott and the Oline coaching. Look to have some more growing pains on the re-vamped O-line.

 

15 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I am not super impressed with Scott Turner and that video definitely does not help me feel any better about him. 

 

Gibson had been a WR and was just learning the RB position.  Coaches were using year 1 for evaluation and likely wanted to expose Gibson to different concepts and schemes to see what he could do well.

 

The team had a new OL coach teaching different techniques than the prior coach.  He is known to be a good coach but wanted things done differently than the old coach.  Growing pains were to be expected.  In year 1 the team was stuck with the players acquired under the prior regime - it wasn't uncommon over the years to have a patchwork of players that didn't mesh well as a unit.

 

Given Rivera's stated goals of establishing culture and learning about his players, I don't see anything in the video that would lead one to conclude that Scott Turner is deficient as OC.

 

 

[Warhead36]

I want to see what Turner can do with an actual NFL QB. I don't think people realize just how bad we were at QB last year. We were ranked 30th, the only two teams worse were the two teams picking at the top of the draft.

 

When we had functional NFL level QB play(Heinecke and even Allen)the offense looked pretty good.

[The Rook]

1 hour ago, PlayAction said:

 

 

Gibson had been a WR and was just learning the RB position.  Coaches were using year 1 for evaluation and likely wanted to expose Gibson to different concepts and schemes to see what he could do well.

 

The team had a new OL coach teaching different techniques than the prior coach.  He is known to be a good coach but wanted things done differently than the old coach.  Growing pains were to be expected.  In year 1 the team was stuck with the players acquired under the prior regime - it wasn't uncommon over the years to have a patchwork of players that didn't mesh well as a unit.

 

Given Rivera's stated goals of establishing culture and learning about his players, I don't see anything in the video that would lead one to conclude that Scott Turner is deficient as OC.

 

 

Except that the analyst called out the coaching and the scheme. A "muddled" rushing game is not praise.

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Rook

[Burgundy Yoda]

3 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

 

Gibson had been a WR and was just learning the RB position.  Coaches were using year 1 for evaluation and likely wanted to expose Gibson to different concepts and schemes to see what he could do well.

 

The team had a new OL coach teaching different techniques than the prior coach.  He is known to be a good coach but wanted things done differently than the old coach.  Growing pains were to be expected.  In year 1 the team was stuck with the players acquired under the prior regime - it wasn't uncommon over the years to have a patchwork of players that didn't mesh well as a unit.

 

Given Rivera's stated goals of establishing culture and learning about his players, I don't see anything in the video that would lead one to conclude that Scott Turner is deficient as OC.

 

 

I'm aware Gibson is a new RB, and know these are all new coaches. I dont think the plan is good, it has nothing to do with the players executing it well or not. The narrator in the video actually does a really good job at explaining it.

2 hours ago, Warhead36 said:

I want to see what Turner can do with an actual NFL QB. I don't think people realize just how bad we were at QB last year. We were ranked 30th, the only two teams worse were the two teams picking at the top of the draft.

 

When we had functional NFL level QB play(Heinecke and even Allen)the offense looked pretty good.

Just got back and watch Carolina games from a few years back. I'd say Cam Newton was classified as an NFL QB, one of the biggest crimes was their misuse of Curtis Samuel. 

[Riggo#44]

20 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

I am not super impressed with Scott Turner and that video definitely does not help me feel any better about him. 

I liked that video, however he says "it's not an issue of talent..." and the shows a video of Wes Martin...

[Warhead36]

3 hours ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

 

Just got back and watch Carolina games from a few years back. I'd say Cam Newton was classified as an NFL QB, one of the biggest crimes was their misuse of Curtis Samuel. 

Newton basically had no shoulder the last couple of years. I think that's more an indictment on Rivera for continuing to trot him out there(a lesson he's hopefully learned).

[Burgundy Yoda]

8 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

I liked that video, however he says "it's not an issue of talent..." and the shows a video of Wes Martin...

I think Wes Martin is a terrible pass blocker and a bit more of a passable player as a run blocker, I'll be paying more attention to the run scheme this year but I share a similar opinion about the scheme with the narrator currently. 

Edited July 2, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Dark Acre]

Wes Martin is still on the team?  💩

[redskinss]

On 7/1/2021 at 5:54 AM, Burgundy Yoda said:

It really isn't an issue of execution IMO. He wasn't impressive at Carolina either 

He wasn't the offensive coordinator in Carolina except for a couple games after Rivera got fired.

He's had one season on a new team with an entirely new staff, during a pandemic. 

I think he deserves a little slack here, at least until he gets a competent quarterback and a season or two of continuity. 

[Koolblue13]

31 minutes ago, redskinss said:

He wasn't the offensive coordinator in Carolina except for a couple games after Rivera got fired.

He's had one season on a new team with an entirely new staff, during a pandemic. 

I think he deserves a little slack here, at least until he gets a competent quarterback and a season or two of continuity. 

There's a great breakdown from a youtuber about those last 5 games, from Brett Kollmann I think.

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

There's a great breakdown from a youtuber about those last 5 games, from Brett Kollmann I think.

Truth be told, I know absolutely nothing of those games he was offensive coordinator for Carolina but I myself would never hold anybody to anything that happened with an interim head coach and a lame duck staff.

Too much turmoil going on to expect any decent results even if you're an offensive savant.

[Going Commando]

On 6/30/2021 at 5:01 PM, Burgundy Yoda said:

I am not super impressed with Scott Turner and that video definitely does not help me feel any better about him. 

 

He's the weak link on the coaching staff.  The offense was beyond a mess last season, it was a dumpster fire and Turner did a horrible job.  And we lost Moses and we're staring down losing Scherff next season.  Those two and Roullier were some of the only good parts of that side of the ball.  It bugs me that we aren't able to keep our best offensive player when we had cap space in a time when almost nobody else did.

 

We have coaching issues on that side of the ball and we have average to below league average talent at basically every spot in the rotation except WR.  But even good players struggle under bad coaching and scheming.  An average offense this season would be a good outcome, and I'm hopefuly they can find enough things they can do well to avoid spoiling the effort of what looks like a special defense.

[Burgundy Yoda]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

He's the weak link on the coaching staff.  The offense was beyond a mess last season, it was a dumpster fire and Turner did a horrible job.  And we lost Moses and we're staring down losing Scherff next season.  Those two and Roullier were some of the only good parts of that side of the ball.  It bugs me that we aren't able to keep our best offensive player when we had cap space in a time when almost nobody else did.

 

We have coaching issues on that side of the ball and we have average to below league average talent at basically every spot in the rotation except WR.  But even good players struggle under bad coaching and scheming.  An average offense this season would be a good outcome, and I'm hopefuly they can find enough things they can do well to avoid spoiling the effort of what looks like a special defense.

If we didn't have JD McKissic as a bailout option it would have been a flat out disgraceful passing game. The route tree was one of the worst I've seen in a while, WRs constantly WAY too close to each other down the field creating clutter. I see people defending him because he hasn't had much time at the position, but the route tree and run scheme concept should be visible from the start. It's typically not something someone "grows into", you're either a bright mind and a good schemer, or you're not. Time rarely makes someone more creative at this level. 

 

It does kind of bug me that we let Moses go. He was an above average player, but most importantly he was a locker room leader. I have a more positive look on the talent at the offensive side of the ball than you do, I think our RB group is above average, Logan Thomas is probably a top 10 TE, our WR group is top half of the league maybe. The talent is there, but Turner isn't going to get them where they need to be. 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[Warhead36]

29 minutes ago, Burgundy Yoda said:

If we didn't have JD McKissic as a bailout option it would have been a flat out disgraceful passing game. The route tree was one of the worst I've seen in a while, WRs constantly WAY too close to each other down the field creating clutter. I see people defending him because he hasn't had much time at the position, but the route tree and run scheme concept should be visible from the start. It's typically not something someone "grows into", you're either a bright mind and a good schemer, or you're not. Time rarely makes someone more creative at this level. 

 

It does kind of bug me that we let Moses go. He was an above average player, but most importantly he was a locker room leader. I have a more positive look on the talent at the offensive side of the ball than you do, I think our RB group is above average, Logan Thomas is probably a top 10 TE, our WR group is top half of the league maybe. The talent is there, but Turner isn't going to get them where they need to be. 

I think the WR routes might have been an issue with the WRs themselves. After McLaurin our WRs were league worst last year. We also had bottom 3 QB play which hampers what you can scheme up.

 

As much as people want to crap on Scott Turner and the offense(and yes it had its issues), you still had: McLaurin playing like a stud, Gibson having over 1000 total yards, Thomas breaking out at TE, and an OL being ranked top 10 by advanced metrics featuring our first All Pro in over 20 years.

 

I'm not saying Turner is some savant OC, but this is the same franchise that had Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, and Matt Lafleur in their building and let them walk away.

[Burgundy Yoda]

10 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I think the WR routes might have been an issue with the WRs themselves. After McLaurin our WRs were league worst last year. We also had bottom 3 QB play which hampers what you can scheme up.

 

As much as people want to crap on Scott Turner and the offense(and yes it had its issues), you still had: McLaurin playing like a stud, Gibson having over 1000 total yards, Thomas breaking out at TE, and an OL being ranked top 10 by advanced metrics featuring our first All Pro in over 20 years.

 

I'm not saying Turner is some savant OC, but this is the same franchise that had Sean McVay, Kyle Shanahan, and Matt Lafleur in their building and let them walk away.

No crapping on Turner here, he's probably a good guy, I just don't think he's a great schemer. I'd also venture to say that this actually hurts him too, he had talent yet still couldn't figure out a way to make the offense more productive than it was. I think this year should be a make or break year for him, if this offense isn't at least average, he should be gone. 

 

To your last point, that just proves how stupid this organization is (or hopefully was lol). 

Edited July 5, 2021 by Burgundy Yoda

[XxSpearheadxX]

I'm not sure that we  can say Turner had talent when we didn't even have a functioning quarterback

[PlayAction]

2 hours ago, XxSpearheadxX said:

I'm not sure that we  can say Turner had talent when we didn't even have a functioning quarterback

The QB that started for most of the season had to retire; the team had only one proven WR; the starting TE had never produced prior to his stint at Washington; and the starting RB was a rookie who had never played the position.  I wouldn't evaluate Turner's performance in Year 1.