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kfrankie

Joe Theismann would be a Hall of Famer if....

Would Joe T. be in the HOF if the Redskins had won Super Bowl XVIII?  

36 members have voted

  1. 1. Would Joe T be in the HOF if the Redskins had won Super Bowl XVIII?

    • Yes
      19
    • No
      17


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So its the offseason and not much is going on.  Time for some new discussion.  My argument is that Joe Theismann would be in the Hall of Fame if he had led the Redskins to victory in Super Bowl XVIII instead of suffering that humiliating defeat to the Raiders.  I've always felt that the best way to measure a players "greatness" was to compare him to his contemporaries.  So for a bit of perspective, here is a list of the 6 years averages (1979-1984) for the best quarterbacks to play alongside of Joe in the prime of their careers, and their win/loss records as starters:

 

image.png.ab3addf91b98efd5c2dc22194583ecb1.png

 

Note that Sipe did not play in the NFL in 1984, Montana played sparingly as a rookie, and Plunkett was in and out. Of this group, Montana and Fouts, clearly stand out.  Montana's 92.7 rating set him apart, as does Fouts' passing yardage average.  Both of HOFers for good reason.   As far as winning won/loss records, surprisingly its Plunkett and Danny White that finish on top, although Plunkett only averaged about 7.7 starts. 

 

So out of these categories, Joe ranks 4th in Win %, but 1st in total wins, 3rd in average yards, 2nd in average TD passes, and 2nd lowest Int %.   Both Montana and Plunkett went to and won 2 super bowls.  Theismann went 1-1 in Superbowls.  Anderson and Jaworski went to one and lost.  Both Fouts and Danny White got as far as the conference championships.

 

Theismann was a pro bowler in 1979, and 1982 and 1983.  He was the NFL's MVP in 1983.  Montana was a pro bowler in 1981, 1983 and 1984, MVP in 1984, .  Sipe was the NFL's MVP in 1980 in his lone pro bowl season, but was 2nd Team AP in 1979 too.  Anderson was the MVP in 1981, and a pro bowler in 1981 and 1982. Fouts was a pro bowler each year except 1984, and won AP Offensive POY in 1982 and 1st team AP in 1979.  Jaws was a pro bowler and bert bell NFL MVP in 1980.  I won't waste any time on Danny White.

 

So the way I see it, if Joe wins it in 1983 he's a shoe-in for the HOF.  He'd have two super bowl victories, an NFL MVP award, and multiple pro bowls.  Granted he wasn't a full time starter until age 29, but neither was Roger Staubach.  Maybe not first ballet, but he'd be in.  In fact, there's even an argument that he should be in anyway.  I've always believed that if a player in the NFL's MVP, that means he was the best player in the league at one point and that's an unbelievable accomplishment. Except for Mark Mosley.  And Sipe.

 

 

Edited by kfrankie

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My dad kind of made it seem like people thought he was a asshole.  He wrote a book about how to be a QB in the NFL after one year or something.  I always thought that would rub people the wrong way.  It seems like you have to know the right people in some cases to make it in.

 

I was told you have to have someone make a case for you, no matter what, when you’re a candidate.

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Both him and Joe Jacoby along with Frank Herzog should have already been enshrined in my opinion 

Edited by c slag
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If Joe Namath is in the hall with one lucky SB win and a carrier where he threw more ints than touchdowns then Joey T should be in. 

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he ripped people off in his athletic center scheme-- besides that during his era he really was not that good of a QB.  Lets deal with the true choice Joe Jacoby.

 

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17 hours ago, kfrankie said:

So its the offseason and not much is going on.  Time for some new discussion.  My argument is that Joe Theismann would be in the Hall of Fame if he had led the Redskins to victory in Super Bowl XVIII instead of suffering that humiliating defeat to the Raiders.  I've always felt that the best way to measure a players "greatness" was to compare him to his contemporaries.  So for a bit of perspective, here is a list of the 6 years averages (1979-1984) for the best quarterbacks to play alongside of Joe in the prime of their careers, and their win/loss records as starters:

 

image.png.ab3addf91b98efd5c2dc22194583ecb1.png

 

Note that Sipe did not play in the NFL in 1984, Montana played sparingly as a rookie, and Plunkett was in and out. Of this group, Montana and Fouts, clearly stand out.  Montana's 92.7 rating set him apart, as does Fouts' passing yardage average.  Both of HOFers for good reason.   As far as winning won/loss records, surprisingly its Plunkett and Danny White that finish on top, although Plunkett only averaged about 7.7 starts. 

 

So out of these categories, Joe ranks 4th in Win %, but 1st in total wins, 3rd in average yards, 2nd in average TD passes, and 2nd lowest Int %.   Both Montana and Plunkett went to and won 2 super bowls.  Theismann went 1-1 in Superbowls.  Anderson and Jaworski went to one and lost.  Both Fouts and Danny White got as far as the conference championships.

 

Theismann was a pro bowler in 1979, and 1982 and 1983.  He was the NFL's MVP in 1983.  Montana was a pro bowler in 1981, 1983 and 1984, MVP in 1984, .  Sipe was the NFL's MVP in 1980 in his lone pro bowl season, but was 2nd Team AP in 1979 too.  Anderson was the MVP in 1981, and a pro bowler in 1981 and 1982. Fouts was a pro bowler each year except 1984, and won AP Offensive POY in 1982 and 1st team AP in 1979.  Jaws was a pro bowler and bert bell NFL MVP in 1980.  I won't waste any time on Danny White.

 

So the way I see it, if Joe wins it in 1983 he's a shoe-in for the HOF.  He'd have two super bowl victories, an NFL MVP award, and multiple pro bowls.  Granted he wasn't a full time starter until age 29, but neither was Roger Staubach.  Maybe not first ballet, but he'd be in.  In fact, there's even an argument that he should be in anyway.  I've always believed that if a player in the NFL's MVP, that means he was the best player in the league at one point and that's an unbelievable accomplishment. Except for Mark Mosley.  And Sipe.

 

 

Joe also led the team to a league record number of points in that 83 season....a historic season that makes the Redskins one of the best teams ever not to win a SB.

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15 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

If Joe Namath is in the hall with one lucky SB win and a carrier where he threw more ints than touchdowns then Joey T should be in. 

But that one "lucky" SB win made the NFL take the AFL seriously and was a key part in the merger. I've always believed that the HOF isn't just the Hall of Stats. You need to make room for people who maybe aren't "elite" but had a major impact on the league anyway.

 

I fully believe that even if Doug Williams would have had subpar stats for his entire career, his major accomplishment of "First (and until Russell Wilson only) African American QB to win the Super Bowl" should have automatically earned him a spot for that accomplishment. I think Namath (between him being drafted #1 by both leagues, then the SB win) deserves his spot for his role helping make the NFL what it is. That's a major impact on "Pro Football" as a whole, don't you think?

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5 minutes ago, GhostofSparta said:

I've always believed that the HOF isn't just the Hall of Stats. You need to make room for people who maybe aren't "elite" but had a major impact on the league anyway.

I agree, it's the reason it's a near tragedy that Don coryell isn't in the hall of fame.

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16 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

If Joe Namath is in the hall with one lucky SB win and a carrier where he threw more ints than touchdowns then Joey T should be in. 

 

Namath changed the league forever.

 

Joey T had a few good years on a great team.

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3 hours ago, redskinss said:

I agree, it's the reason it's a near tragedy that Don coryell isn't in the hall of fame.

I mean, for crying out loud, how do you not put Air Coryell in? Not just based on how he changed the game, which is enough on its own, but what about the damn assistants he ended up leaving around the league?

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Theismann in the HoF? He wouldn't have a leg to stand on!

 

C'mon, nobody going there? Nobody?

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21 hours ago, 50yrSKINSfan said:

If Joe Namath is in the hall with one lucky SB win and a carrier where he threw more ints than touchdowns then Joey T should be in. 

 

That's not all the Hall of Fame is about. You can't tell the story of the NFL without Namath's legacy and famous guarantee, in many people's opinion. I agree that out of that context, he shouldn't be in. But the Hall is also about emotion in that regard. It's not JUST cold stats. 

 

The only reason you would need to talk about Joey T when telling the NFL's story, really, would be if you're talking about LT.

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37 minutes ago, LD0506 said:

Theismann in the HoF? He wouldn't have a leg to stand on!

 

C'mon, nobody going there? Nobody?

 

Well it was a “signature play”, like Lynn Swann

 

Ypu could also add his contributions in the broadcast booth

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There are people I'd choose before Joe even if Joe QBed two Super Bowl Champions. I think Jacoby is an obvious one, but I think that Gary Clark and Jim Lachey deserve nods, too. I even think Charles Mann deserves consideration and I don't think he's ever in the conversation. Mann was a consistent double digit sack guy who was equally strong against the run. In fact, he sacrificed sacks to make sure that guys like Barry Sanders and Eric Dickerson got squat against the Redskins. Think about it. None of the "great" runners of that era could run on the Redskins D.

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10 hours ago, Voice_of_Reason said:

Joe basically started like 4 good years.  No, he isn’t a HOFer.  
 

He’s a Redskin legend.  But gays different. 

Joe Theismann is gay?

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 I used to gush over the HOF possible inductees when I was a young whippersnapper, hoping one of my favorite team's players would get voted in.

But then I began to pay a little more attention to some of the people in, and its sort of tilted in certain teams' favor, like Green Bay.

 

They've for the most part inducted everyone except the towel boy!  Now, " th' Hogs " are the most achieved, popular and bulldozing offensive lines EVER in the NFL, yet only 1 guy has been voted in. Green Bay has pretty much their entire o-line in, and they weren't anything exciting; unless I missed it, I don't recall people bragging about how great their line was, it was their QB, coach, and a WR, who got them their championships, yet half their damn team is in the HOF!

 

So the HOF completely dropped off my radar when they first denied Art Monk. He was a more-then-achieved WR, a great man on and off the football field, set records, won Superbowls, and commanded double teams a lot. But because of a couple of haters on the HOF committee, they denied him, for no good damn reason, until it was widely mentioned how Monk had been denied year after year, and pressure was heating up big time, until the assholes caved in and said just let him in and get it over with.

 

Now, that's not the kind of response you'd like to hear from this committee, but they were a smug bunch of pricks who voted in players with more off-field issues than on-field accomplishments. IMO, Theismann should be in; he went to 2 Superbowls back-to-back, won one of them, led the team to a record-setting point scoring frenzy, and  left it on the field every time he played. Was he a motormouth? Sure, so what!  There's a number of players whose mouths were bigger than their accomplishments and never WENT to a Superbowl, yet they got the jacket and bust. They were not game-changers either, just players who played for a longer than average number of years { we now call these players wiley ol' vets } and slowly built up their numbers, and many times nowhere near enough more than others who are not in today.

 

So, yes! Joey T., Mark May, Joe Jacoby, Gary Clark, Jeff Bostic, ALL should be in the HOF. I'd even say Joe Bugel, being the coach of the o-line { if he isn't in already }.  Its not being a burgundy glass-wearing fan, but a realist, especially when you compare them to those in now who have much less in accomplishments...

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On 1/24/2020 at 6:29 PM, c slag said:

Both him and Joe Jacoby along with Frank Herzog should have already been enshrined in my opinion 

Herzog???  Yes he got some national time in media (some) but generally speaking he was just a local sports media guy.

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1 hour ago, nonniey said:

Herzog???  Yes he got some national time in media (some) but generally speaking he was just a local sports media guy.

There is a Pete Rozelle award for Radio-Television people, I think he would be deserving to at least be nominated for it someday, he was actually a great radio announcer, in my opinion 

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7 hours ago, skins island connection said:

 

  especially when you compare them to those in now who have much less in accomplishments...

Jason Taylor says hi.

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Every other QB with two SB rings is in. Joe would be, too, as will Eli in five years.

 

I think the grading was tougher when Joe first became eligible, and he is starting to be forgotten compared to newer retirees. Now, as is, I don't think Joe rates. He played on legendarily stacked teams and only got one trophy. Imagine what Marino would have done with a supporting cast like that (both sides of the ball).

Edited by profusion

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