RichmondRedskin88

Hypothetical- Cincy throws a curveball and take Chase. Would you take Joe Burrow?

Recommended Posts

I like this thread as I've said before the Bungles might just take Young. Only I never used the word hypothetical :ols:

 

No I wouldn't take Burrow.

 

With Haskins, Alex Smith and Cam Newton already on the roster it would be pointless.

 

Trade Back :bye:

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
42 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

If we hypothetically traded back to 5 for only a 2nd, and young, burrows, okudah, and Simmons are off the board, that could be the biggest hypothetical draft blunder I've ever heard of.  Hypothetically speaking.

Then we take Jeudy and an OL in the second and have the most potent group of receivers in the Nfl.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

I like this thread as I've said before the Bungles might just take Young. Only I never used the word hypothetical :ols:

 

No I wouldn't take Burrow.

 

With Haskins, Alex Smith and Tom Brady already on the roster it would be pointless.

 

Trade Back :bye:

Fixed

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm still convinced Cincy trades out of the spot to the highest bidder. They need a ton of help and drafting a QB won't turn that team around. 3 first rounds picks and a second may.

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hell NO! You are sitting on boat load of picks to trade for by Miami or someone else. Take the bounty and don't look back!!!!

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, MartinC said:

 

Hypothetically I can get a date with Katy Perry.

Hypothetically that is the best you can get? I mean she is cool but hypothetically you could have had her and Scarlett Johansson fighting over you. 

 

So I have been a big supporter of Haskins and all year wishing on my lucky star every night for Chase Young BUT if the Bangels mess up and draft Young I pray we run to the podium and draft Borrow. Let Haskins start all 2020 and then trade him hopefully for a couple high picks. Burrow is a more mobile Tom Brady. I dont care if we are offered 3 1st and a 2nd. Expecially cause I believe Haskins would play good next year and a team will give up a 1st and maybe even a second of he does play good.

  • Confused 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, HoggLife said:

Hypothetically that is the best you can get? I mean she is cool but hypothetically you could have had her and Scarlett Johansson fighting over you. 

 

So I have been a big supporter of Haskins and all year wishing on my lucky star every night for Chase Young BUT if the Bangels mess up and draft Young I pray we run to the podium and draft Borrow. Let Haskins start all 2020 and then trade him hopefully for a couple high picks. Burrow is a more mobile Tom Brady. I dont care if we are offered 3 1st and a 2nd. Expecially cause I believe Haskins would play good next year and a team will give up a 1st and maybe even a second of he does play good.

Why? We’d have no leverage. You would draft a QB, have no other pick until the Third round so you can’t improve your team. You now also have at least one first rounder that’s not gonna play (either DH or Burrow). If DH plays then you’ll at most get a second for him and you still don’t know whether or not Burrow will thrive in the NFL and teams will know that you can’t afford to hold onto both. 

 

Honestly, drafting another first round QB now may be the newest dumb argument on the board. 

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, PartyPosse said:

Why? We’d have no leverage. You would draft a QB, have no other pick until the Third round so you can’t improve your team. You now also have at least one first rounder that’s not gonna play (either DH or Burrow). If DH plays then you’ll at most get a second for him and you still don’t know whether or not Burrow will thrive in the NFL and teams will know that you can’t afford to hold onto both. 

 

Honestly, drafting another first round QB now may be the newest dumb argument on the board. 

 

This is where I am as well. Drafting a QB, even one that projects to be better than Haskins, doesn't improve the team very much. You still have an offensive line to rebuild and no difference maker on defense. Some of the other holes, such as TE, LB and secondary, you can fill in the later rounds. But as you say, you don't have another pick until the 3rd round to do so. The third round now becomes your first shot to fill the holes on the team and improve your weaknesses. We all think that if Burrow is there the Redskins should get a haul for that pick. But even if they only get 50 cents on the dollar for that draft spot, that still has a much better chance to improve your team than drafting a QB this year. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

I'm still convinced Cincy trades out of the spot to the highest bidder. They need a ton of help and drafting a QB won't turn that team around. 3 first rounds picks and a second may.

 

Good QBs fix almost any team. Not completely, but put Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees anywhere and that team can compete. That would be a huge step up for the Bengals. who perpetually suck. Not to mention Burrow is an Ohio guy. Not sure you'd ever live that down if Burrow was good elsewhere. Granted you don't pick Burrow on the fear he pans out elsewhere. But with a QB that well regarded, getting three picks and say a good WR, OT, and DT instead? Even assuming all the picks pan out, that's AJ Green, Andrew Whitworth, and Geno Atkins. They had all those guys and still won zero playoff games. You really want to sell hope with that?

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If this wasn’t an entirely new regime in charge, I’d agree that you don’t pull the plug one year after drafting a quarterback in the first round and then draft another.

 

But it is.

 

Their team. Their groceries. 
 

If they pick Haskins? Fantastic. We’ve already given the asset to get him and he’s got a year of adversity under his belt that can help mold him as a potential franchise player.

 

If it’s not him and they want a new guy? Great. 
 

I want the staff to be comfortable with whoever their quarterback is. 
 

 

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, PartyPosse said:

Why? We’d have no leverage. You would draft a QB, have no other pick until the Third round so you can’t improve your team. You now also have at least one first rounder that’s not gonna play (either DH or Burrow). If DH plays then you’ll at most get a second for him and you still don’t know whether or not Burrow will thrive in the NFL and teams will know that you can’t afford to hold onto both. 

 

Honestly, drafting another first round QB now may be the newest dumb argument on the board. 

We all have our own views and it's not like the Skins are banging on my door asking my opinion. But I've been a Skins fan since the 80s and we havent had our Franchise QB. Teams that have had Payton Manning, Brett Favre, Aaron Rodgers, Drew Brees, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger ext. have always had a better chance to always be in the playoff hunt. I have always been big on Haskins but he isnt for sure to be good let alone great. Burrow either but I really do think Burrow is special. And so you ask me why? Because in my lifetime I want to see us finally have our Joe Montana. If I'm wrong for wanting that then I'm sorry. But I'd be very satisfied if it happened. As long as we dont trade our pick I will be very excited. I only want 2 players. Burrow or Young. That is it. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I take Burrow and trade Haskins.  Haskins has improved, but there are red flags with the ball he throws, his accuracy, and his attitude and maturity.  Burrow is ahead in these aspects, and he can extend plays better.

 

But this would be the acid test for the degree of Rivera's authority now.  On the surface, this setup looks like a rebirth of the Schottenheimer deal, so I would be happy if Rivera did this.  But realistically, I would expect the team to pass on Burrow and trade down.

5 hours ago, Redskin4ever said:

 

This is where I am as well. Drafting a QB, even one that projects to be better than Haskins, doesn't improve the team very much. You still have an offensive line to rebuild and no difference maker on defense. Some of the other holes, such as TE, LB and secondary, you can fill in the later rounds. But as you say, you don't have another pick until the 3rd round to do so. The third round now becomes your first shot to fill the holes on the team and improve your weaknesses. We all think that if Burrow is there the Redskins should get a haul for that pick. But even if they only get 50 cents on the dollar for that draft spot, that still has a much better chance to improve your team than drafting a QB this year. 

 

Haskins was slated as a 2nd rounder last year by most teams and has shown some promise--maybe a lot.  So, why wouldn't we get a 2nd rounder for him?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, CharleyT said:

I take Burrow and trade Haskins.  Haskins has improved, but there are red flags with the ball he throws, his accuracy, and his attitude and maturity.  Burrow is ahead in these aspects, and he can extend plays better.

 

But this would be the acid test for the degree of Rivera's authority now.  On the surface, this setup looks like a rebirth of the Schottenheimer deal, so I would be happy if Rivera did this.  But realistically, I would expect the team to pass on Burrow and trade down.

 

Haskins was slated as a 2nd rounder last year by most teams and has shown some promise--maybe a lot.  So, why wouldn't we get a 2nd rounder for him?

You’d get at most a 2nd for him. Rosen was a top ten pick and all they could get was a second. Why? Because they had no leverage.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Easy.  You trade back with Miami for all 3 of their 1st rounders. With the first pick from Miami, you select Tua to sit behind Haskins until he's fully healthy for a great QB competition and you draft need with the other two. 

 

Duh, kids, Madden is easy. 

 

:::sarcasm:::

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately I don't believe this is a hypothetical.  I think the Bengals will take Chase Young at #1 and then go after one of the plethora of veteran QB's that are going to be FA's this year.  Hell the Bengals have so many holes to fill on their roster,  their O line sucks, they could roll with either Philip Rivers, or even an Eli Manning for a year, as they address other key issues.  They also desperately need a #1 WR.  It goes on and on for the Bungles.   

 

I think Miami is our best potential trade partner IF they want Burrow after the Bungles pass on him.   Right now they have the #5,  #19, and # 25 pick.  But the problem I see is the draft order.  The Giant's do not need a QB.  Neither do the Lion's.  So Miami could conceivably stay put and still get their guy.  I guess I can't imagine that guy being Tua anymore, but if, for some reason, it is they could roll with Fitzmagic for another year and allow Tua to continue his hip rehab, while they pick up some key players at #19, and #25.    

 

Okudah would be great but you know who's secondary gets beat like a drum as badly as ours?  The Lion's,  They are going to take him IMO. 

 

 But just to stay in the spirit of the thread I am going to go with the following scenario.  Miami wants Burrow.  So they trade their #5 and #19 pick to the Skins for the #2 pick.  I would choose to stick with Haskins for a year, and I would take Jeudy in the draft and instantly we have two feared WR's in Scary Terry and him.   Now at #19, I am simply BPA on the defensive side of the ball. 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my opinion if those in the organization believe Burrow is a franchise QB and Haskins is not you take him and don't look back.If 3 years down the road Haskins is Leftwich and Burrow is one of the top guys in the league who cares if we moved on from Haskins to quick.

QB is the most important position is the league and if believe you can get that franchise guy you take him.By Ron stating Haskins is going to have to earn the job I believe he has doubts about Haskins.If he and  those in the organization have no doubts about Burrow it would be in the teams best interest to take him and move on from Haskins regardless of Haskins being a first round pick last year.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 hours ago, KDawg said:

If this wasn’t an entirely new regime in charge, I’d agree that you don’t pull the plug one year after drafting a quarterback in the first round and then draft another.

 

But it is.

 

Their team. Their groceries. 
 

If they pick Haskins? Fantastic. We’ve already given the asset to get him and he’s got a year of adversity under his belt that can help mold him as a potential franchise player.

 

If it’s not him and they want a new guy? Great. 
 

I want the staff to be comfortable with whoever their quarterback is. 
 

 

 

This is where I am.  I want whatever they want.  It's not that I believe Rivera or whomever has a magic wand.  but if you hire someone and entrust them -- then you go full out.  If you don't trust them then its the wrong hire in the first place.  Play out your hand.

 

That said my guess is they wouldn't take Burrow.  I really doubt that the Bengals take Young.    I think the upshot will be Chase Young is a Redskin. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, skinsmania123 said:

Unfortunately I don't believe this is a hypothetical.  I think the Bengals will take Chase Young at #1 and then go after one of the plethora of veteran QB's that are going to be FA's this year.  Hell the Bengals have so many holes to fill on their roster,  their O line sucks, they could roll with either Philip Rivers, or even an Eli Manning for a year, as they address other key issues.  They also desperately need a #1 WR.  It goes on and on for the Bungles.   

 

 

I think they'd be crazy to do so.  Nothing harder than finding a franchise QB.  Once you do that the rest is much easier to find.  I've been on Chase Young for months, love the dude, but no way I'd take him if I were Cincy.  Now, I am sure we will hear rumors that they are waffling about what to do.  Every team with the first pick these days does so.  You want to increase leverage just to see if some team gives you a crazy haul.  So I bet we will hear some ties to Cincy to Young just like we heard in 2012 that the Colts might take RG3 and the Cards might not take Murray last year, etc but I am betting its all smoke.  But the smoke is certainly coming. 

 

1 hour ago, skinsmania123 said:

I think Miami is our best potential trade partner IF they want Burrow after the Bungles pass on him.   Right now they have the #5,  #19, and # 25 pick.  But the problem I see is the draft order.  The Giant's do not need a QB.  Neither do the Lion's.  So Miami could conceivably stay put and still get their guy.  I guess I can't imagine that guy being Tua anymore, but if, for some reason, it is they could roll with Fitzmagic for another year and allow Tua to continue his hip rehab, while they pick up some key players at #19, and #25.    

 

I think it's risky to sit because supposedly SD is hot for a QB, too.  Raiders and maybe Carolina.  Typically teams trade up. 

 

1 hour ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

 But just to stay in the spirit of the thread I am going to go with the following scenario.  Miami wants Burrow.  So they trade their #5 and #19 pick to the Skins for the #2 pick.  I would choose to stick with Haskins for a year, and I would take Jeudy in the draft and instantly we have two feared WR's in Scary Terry and him.   Now at #19, I am simply BPA on the defensive side of the ball. 

 

 

 

Love Jeudy, I like Lamb a hair over him but I wouldn't hate that.  I would though do the reverse.  I'd take Simmons or Okudah -- whomever is left at 5.  And take the best receiver at 19 -- Higgins or Ruggs whomever is left.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was the coaches who said that the difference between the Haskins who threw  3 interceptions in the first Giants game and the Haskins who threw 2 td's in the second Giants game was night and day.  The improvement was big time.  This is not debatable. If he weren't hurt, Haskins would have thrown maybe another td or so.

How do you know that Burrow will be better than Haskins in the final game?  

Burrow probably won't be.  You need to look at the statistics here.  The majority of QB's end up being busts or just mediocre.  If that weren't the case, all teams would have a good QB by now.

So in a situation like this, you trade down.

Daniel Jones with a PFF rating with 65.7.  Haskins at 67.6.

They also found that Haskins is one of the better young QB's when throwing from a clean pocket.  That's supposed to be a major data point that tells you whether a QB will be successful or not.

You also need to look at time to throw, where Haskins has showed major improvement. He ended up at 2.87.  He was in the 2.90's early on.  Now, I noticed that Daniel Jones made improvement in that regard as well.  Daniel Jones will be a good QB, but with fumbling problems.  Haskins will end up better.

Edited by redskins59
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think they'd be crazy to do so.  Nothing harder than finding a franchise QB.  Once you do that the rest is much easier to find.  I've been on Chase Young for months, love the dude, but no way I'd take him if I were Cincy.  Now, I am sure we will hear rumors that they are waffling about what to do.  Every team with the first pick these days does so.  You want to increase leverage just to see if some team gives you a crazy haul.  So I bet we will hear some ties to Cincy to Young just like we heard in 2012 that the Colts might take RG3 and the Cards might not take Murray last year, etc but I am betting its all smoke.  But the smoke is certainly coming. 

 

I agree here - the safest pick in the world is for CN to take Burrow. They will never be second guessed even if he turns out to Heath Shuler and Jamarcus Russell in one. Unless of course there is a massive trade they just cannot turn down. But i do not see that happening. So I agree this is a hypothetical - and fun! 

 

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think it's risky to sit because supposedly SD is hot for a QB, too.  Raiders and maybe Carolina.  Typically teams trade up. 

 

Once CN is out of the way - assuming the hypothetical, the flood gates would be open for us to get a massive haul as I could see 2 to 5 teams trying like hell to get Burrow. If you can get that kind of action going, that's when you end up with a franchise changing trade. I like our trade chances then. 

 

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

Love Jeudy, I like Lamb a hair over him but I wouldn't hate that.  I would though do the reverse.  I'd take Simmons or Okudah -- whomever is left at 5.  And take the best receiver at 19 -- Higgins or Ruggs whomever is left.

 

 

I am not sure why everyone thinks we need to go WR in the first. They are extremely risky and honestly i like our crew. Lot's of potential there. I would rather add an experienced vet in free agency to work with the young guys and see what thy can do. WR is so risky in the first. I would prefer we go oline twice in the first before drafting a WR Jeudy or not Jeudy. Not to mention WR is deep in this draft. No thanks, I want to no part of WR in the first, not for the Redskins anyway. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

I agree here - the safest pick in the world is for CN to take Burrow. They will never be second guessed even if he turns out to Heath Shuler and Jamarcus Russell in one. Unless of course there is a massive trade they just cannot turn down. But i do not see that happening. So I agree this is a hypothetical - and fun! 

 

Monday's game might have some bearing but I think he will play well.  You add that he's from Ohio and supposedly has intangibles that are through the roof -- I think he's borderline a shoo in to be the #1 pick.  But Cincy won't act like he is to keep everyone guessing and to see if someone offers an insane haul.

 

21 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

 

 

I am not sure why everyone thinks we need to go WR in the first. They are extremely risky and honestly i like our crew. Lot's of potential there. I would rather add an experienced vet in free agency to work with the young guys and see what thy can do. WR is so risky in the first. I would prefer we go oline twice in the first before drafting a WR Jeudy or not Jeudy. Not to mention WR is deep in this draft. No thanks, I want to no part of WR in the first, not for the Redskins anyway. 

 

This is coming from the dude that was probably the highest on the draft thread about both McLaurin and Harmon before we took them.  I am with Cooley on this thinking which is they need one more game breaking guy at that spot.  You typically need 4 receivers considering injuries-spread formations, etc.  I like Harmon and was practically begging here for them to draft him on draft day but i don't think he's a superstar in the making.

 

But all of that is aside the point, I am a BPA guy and I do think in that range the BPA likely might just be a receiver.  This is looking like a historic draft for that position.  I love a bunch of them.  I'd rather be part of the party at WR than skip the party.    In short, I do agree that its an historic draft for WR.  I want to have a slice of that buffet.  If it was an ordinary draft for the spot I'd feel differently

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One fact that we can only ignore at great peril is the following: Every draft pick is a gamble— this is even more so for prospective quarterbacks.

 

No matter the pedigree, the blood line, the athletic ability, the analytics or the gut feeling of the evaluator(s) when it comes down to it in the end it’s all nothing more than an educated guess. A multi-million dollar coin flip that takes years and millions of dollars to come up either heads or tails.

 

Even the best talent evaluator is only right a fraction of the time. Despite the best effort of scouts, GMs and coaches all too often QBs selected in the top 10 of the draft are out of the league or underperforming 5 years down the road while otoh forgotten misfits that were not considered worthy of an early selection end up making the pro bowl.

 

That said consider young Dwyane Haskins late of The Ohio State:

 

Stout of arm. Sturdy in size. More maneuverable than his 40 time would lead you to believe. Quite the junior year had he. Balls sailing through the air to wide open track stars. Touchdowns galore. Glorious it was to see.

 

Every now and again though...inexplicably, an errant ball seemingly sent off to no one in partcular.

 

Curious that. A real head scratcher.

 

No matter. That arm. That glorious arm. Rare it was. Rare indeed.

 

But did he have the “Schottenheimer gleem” that only the anointed ones have? (Even now we wonder)

 

Nevertheless. Enter the draft he decided. Good move. Strike while the irons hot, says I.

 

Scouts were sent a drooling. At least it seemed mostly that they drooled. A few others had their doubts but they mostly whispered while the talking heads on the vid sang his praises loudly and drowned out the dissenters.

 

And then he became a Redskin and from then on we mostly dreamed and hoped that the glories of college would be prelude to the glories yet to come.

 

Rough start. Many reasons why. Ill prepared, a desperate coach fighting for his job with no time for a rookie, an owner overriding the wishes of his coach, Bruce Allen (his name alone says it all) and on and on yada yada, Redskins luck, s.o.s, et cetera et cetera.

 

Finally he gets on the field. Terrible play we saw at first but slowly, resolutely, Simba got incrementally better. Not good, yet, but certainly better.

 

Then it happened.

 

A magical six quarters of football where he looked potentially as good as the best of them. You could feel it or did you just want to feel it?

 

Then, all too quickly he was injured and lost for the remainder of the year. Leaving us unfulfilled once again. On the precipice of climax. What the french call the little death.

 

Leaving us to ponder whether he had found the path (and us along with him) or whether it was a brief mirage that leads neither to oasis nor victory?

 

Who can say the outcome with certainty?

 

It’s all just an educated guess for now.

 

The coin is still spinning in the air—

 

XXXXXX

 

If given the chance we should take Burrow. Let them fight it out.  It’s worth the risk. If the goal is to get a franchise qb because you can’t win consistently without one and if any single draft pick you select is a crapshoot you only increase your probability for success by having more options.

 

 

Edited by SumTingWong
mult errors
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I think they'd be crazy to do so.  Nothing harder than finding a franchise QB.  Once you do that the rest is much easier to find.  I've been on Chase Young for months, love the dude, but no way I'd take him if I were Cincy.  Now, I am sure we will hear rumors that they are waffling about what to do.  Every team with the first pick these days does so.  You want to increase leverage just to see if some team gives you a crazy haul.  So I bet we will hear some ties to Cincy to Young just like we heard in 2012 that the Colts might take RG3 and the Cards might not take Murray last year, etc but I am betting its all smoke.  But the smoke is certainly coming. 

i know what your saying but consider this.  So did you catch the San Fran - Packer game during the regular season?  What the San Fran D line did to Rodgers O line, and to him because they could not hold up was crazy.  They made him look mediocre at best - plus no run game, I was thinking about that when I thought if I am picking at # 1 I may very well go for the game changer, an immediate impact player.  I just wouldn't pass him up.   That is just me in the hypothetical game.  Just not sure I wouldn't do it.

Quote

 

 

I think it's risky to sit because supposedly SD is hot for a QB, too.  Raiders and maybe Carolina.  Typically teams trade up. 

That is true but occasionally you have players you should not not pass on IMO.  It will be interesting to see what the Bengals do.  I agree San Diego needs a new QB, and needs to cut ties with River's.  He had decent protection and was INT machine this year.

Quote

 

 

Love Jeudy, I like Lamb a hair over him but I wouldn't hate that.  I would though do the reverse.  I'd take Simmons or Okudah -- whomever is left at 5.  And take the best receiver at 19 -- Higgins or Ruggs whomever is left.

 I don't think Okudah is going to be there.  I think he is going to the Lion's.  Boy do they need him in their secondary.    I will have to research on Lamb.  

 

It will be fun no matter what happens and Redskins football is becoming at the very least interesting again for me.

Edited by skinsmania123

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The only way this becomes a reality is if Burrow gets a significant injury before the draft. And if that happens, we’re not taking Burrow either. If no trade downs, it’ll likely be:

 

1. Chase Young

2. Whoever we have as OT1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

The only way this becomes a reality is if Burrow gets a significant injury before the draft. And if that happens, we’re not taking Burrow either. If no trade downs, it’ll likely be:

 

1. Chase Young

2. Whoever we have as OT1

 

All well and good and a nice starting point for a different discussion but of little consequence here.

 

This isn’t a thread based on reality or even for that matter likelihood. It is a thought experiment based on a specific supposition.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.