The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, RWJ said:

I was thinking more along the lines that the release of Kirkpatrick giving them more cap space increases the chances of them trading their #65, 1st pick in the 3rd round for TW. 

 

R. Walker on 980 just now, thinks the biggest hangup on a trade is Trent's contract demand.  I can't quite recall who said it yesterday because I was listening to a lot of stuff (I think it was Finlay but I could be wrong) and in that mix was that Trent's agent is pushing for an outright release and the Redskins refuse and won't do it.  And that beat guy asked around a source to a specific team who might have interest and they are wondering about Trent and his agent's antics and whether that's something to be concerned about if they acquire him.

 

I mentioned that possibility the other day.  That is, if Trent and or his agent seem like a handful to deal with it might also make him less attractive to another team. 

[Voice_of_Reason]

3 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Best case scenario for both sides is likely for Trent to come back and kill it and then perhaps they can trade him for higher value than they could now and likely to a contender to boot.  

That is the best case scenario.  However, it would appear as though the Redskins would "win" in that situation, and i doubt Trent, and specifically his agent, would allow that narrative at this point.

 

I think this is going to end up being protracted again.  It's not going to end until after the draft at the earliest, and probably not until well after that.  Which is unfortunate. 

[-9-]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Teams show no loyalty to players.  There is no loyalty in professional sports, you need to understand this. 

 

 

Just like private business.   You produce ... or they'll find someone else who can.  Preferably younger and cheaper.

 

As it should be.

[RWJ]

31 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

R. Walker on 980 just now, thinks the biggest hangup on a trade is Trent's contract demand.  I can't quite recall who said it yesterday because I was listening to a lot of stuff (I think it was Finlay but I could be wrong) and in that mix was that Trent's agent is pushing for an outright release and the Redskins refuse and won't do it.  And that beat guy asked around a source to a specific team who might have interest and they are wondering about Trent and his agent's antics and whether that's something to be concerned about if they acquire him.

 

I mentioned that possibility the other day.  That is, if Trent and or his agent seem like a handful to deal with it might also make him less attractive to another team. 

One thing I think is for sure.  He will never play again for the Skins.  In the end, I think we will get a draft pick of some kind for him and we recoup the money we have paid out for him.  It could be during the draft or afterwards.  JMO. 

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Yeah for the most part they added bodies to build depth and to create competition but they really haven't upgraded much at all.  Fans are overrating Fuller, he wasn't that good in KC and Fuller and Davis were really the only big acquisitions. 

 

I'm with you. But I also think Dunbar was overrated tremendously, so I still think we're net positive for a few reasons:

 

1) I don't think many here would say Dunbar was an A corner if PFF didn't tell us that. Most of us would have him in the B- range. Which is still an excellent player, but it's also where I'd kinda put Fuller. Fuller, though, is more versatile, and his flexibility can put him at FS for us, with Davis playing FS in Nickel situations and Fuller bumping down into the slot. 

 

2) Sean Davis brings a different kind of perspective into the fold at FS, so while we didn't really vertically improve, we may have on a horizontal level, if that makes sense.

 

3) Linebacker is kind of a mess still, but Thomas Davis and KPL improve our unit. Guys who were day 1 of camp starter type guys (Holcomb/SDH/JHC) are now likely backups or off the roster. At the very least, they'll have to compete for a starting role. And if they win it, they earned it. Still need a MIKE type guy. I'd love Kenneth Murray but don't see it happening. 

 

4) DL is net even right now.

 

5) OL is a worse at the moment. No Penn means our starting LT is a scary situation at the moment. But that can change when the Trent picture is resolved. I like Martin, so I'm okay with him at LG, but I have questions about depth on the interior. 

 

6) RB is a stronger overall unit adding McKissick, who is a weapon type of guy, and Barber.

 

7) Receiver is net even.

 

8 ) Tight end is net even

 

9) Quarterback is... who knows. That's still the major wild card for us. 

 

I think we have a better roster than we did a few months ago. But it's not by a high percentage. It's improved due to depth. 

[-9-]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

... we have a better roster than we did a few months ago. But it's not by a high percentage. It's improved due to depth. 

 

 

thoughts on overall team speed now?   

 

I guess primarily defense ...

 

has the gap been narrowed?  

[KDawg]

Just now, 09 said:

 

 

thoughts on overall team speed now?   

 

has the gap been narrowed?  

 

I don't know that we've made much of a dent in that department. The backers are mostly all athletic types. 

 

KPL is a 4.5 guy. 

 

SDH is a 4.7ish? guy.

 

Holcomb is a 4.48 guy.

 

So the addition of KPL over SDH is a bit more speed.

 

Sean Davis 4.46, Nicholson 4.42. So a tick's hair slower.

 

Kendall Fuller 4.48. Quinton Dunbar 4.44. So, again, a tick's hair slower.

 

How fast they play is a different story. But I don't think we've improved much on that front. In fact, other than KPL, we're probably slower.

 

[NYSkins21]

59 minutes ago, RWJ said:

One thing I think is for sure.  He will never play again for the Skins.  In the end, I think we will get a draft pick of some kind for him and we recoup the money we have paid out for him.  It could be during the draft or afterwards.  JMO. 

I'm not so sure about that. I think there is much more value in protecting our young franchise QB than getting "a pick of some kind" and it's in the best interest of ALL to do so. It's not just about getting fair value for Trent. It's about protection for our young franchise QB. And if that means moving forward with Trent as our LT for a year until something else becomes available, that's what will happen.

[Est.1974]

2 hours ago, SemperFi Skins said:

Have to wonder if Washington is one of the teams interested in a trade for DE Yannick Ngakoue with Jacksonville? Maybe a trade that would include TW? Yannick is a D.C. guy, and went to Maryland. Would open up that #2 spot fairly wide... 

 

FWIW, I am still on the Young bandwagon at #2...

 

posted that very scenario yesterday. Jax get Trent and take Young. We get Ngakoue and picks. Depends if want to drop down to #9...

[SemperFi Skins]

3 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

posted that very scenario yesterday. Jax get Trent and take Young. We get Ngakoue and picks. Depends if want to drop down to #9...

 

I wouldn't give them our 2 though... I meant TW and possibly a mid-late rounder for Ngakoue, keeping our #2 overall and trading it for a haul for a QB-needy team.

 

Again, though, I am still in favor of Chase Young at 2 as opposed to this trade, FWIW

 

Downside = cost, though it may even out for what TW wants.

 

upside = Ngakoue is like a mini Khalil Mack and already proven. Have to hope Chase Young is what we think he is.

[Est.1974]

11 minutes ago, SemperFi Skins said:

 

I wouldn't give them our 2 though... I meant TW and possibly a mid-late rounder for Ngakoue, keeping our #2 overall and trading it for a haul for a QB-needy team.

 

Again, though, I am still in favor of Chase Young at 2 as opposed to this trade, FWIW

 

Downside = cost, though it may even out for what TW wants.

 

upside = Ngakoue is like a mini Khalil Mack and already proven. Have to hope Chase Young is what we think he is.

Jax do have a couple of first rounders.
 

I was just throwing it out there as a random thought. But you get Ngakoue, you don’t need Young. You do get a first round LT, another first and likely a day two pick.

 

the talk of Miami to #1 is interesting. Feels like a couple of major moves could happen.

[Fresh8686]

 

[Master Blaster]

1 hour ago, 09 said:

 

 

thoughts on overall team speed now?   

 

I guess primarily defense ...

 

has the gap been narrowed?  

 

 

Defense overall will be faster simply due to removing one bigger body and replacing with a typical LB. 

[Koolblue13]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

2) Sean Davis brings a different kind of perspective into the fold at FS, so while we didn't really vertically improve, we may have on a horizontal level, if that makes sense.

 

 

8 ) Tight end is net even

I love how you put that about Davis and it makes perfect sense.

 

I also think having an experienced vet will add some swagger to the back of the defense and add a layer of comfort.

 

I think TE is improved just because we don't have the dark cloud of uncertainty. Yes, it's uncertain who starts and even who is on the roster, but we can game plan with a generic TE spot, without tailoring the offense to players who wont play. Blocking has also improved a lot.

[KDawg]

@Koolblue13 that’s my reason for net even. Good logic. There is a talent drop off from Reed/Davis to this, but these guys are mostly all reliable and we know what we have. 

[Malapropismic Depository]

Re : Speed 🚄

Still holding out hope that Apke improves.

That would be much-needed and much-improved speed on defense

[Koolblue13]

6 minutes ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

Re : Speed 🚄

Still holding out hope that Apke improves.

That would be much-needed and much-improved speed on defense

Same here. I don't know why I'm high on him, but I am. I know he flys and like to hit. 

[Fresh8686]

I think it's smart to evaluate speed in two lanes. There is the base level speed that @KDawg laid out for us and then there is also the projection of play speed in JDR's system. I think that lane gives this new group a slight edge when it comes to speed when it matters.

 

While S. Davis has problems with tackling, he is not the undisciplined player that Montae is. He is more likely to be closer to the correct position and hopefully take the correct angles to harness more of his speed (no guarantee on this though). Dunbar is faster than Fuller and probably still retains that edge in play speed, especially if we are talking about playing on the outside. But, we might be safe to project better use of Moreau's and Apke's speed in JDR's system compared to Manusky's, which is another plus.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Fresh8686 said:

I think it's smart to evaluate speed in two lanes. There is the base level speed that @KDawg laid out for us and then there is also the projection of play speed in JDR's system. I think that lane gives this new group a slight edge when it comes to speed when it matters.

 

While S. Davis has problems with tackling, he is not the undisciplined player that Montae is. He is more likely to be closer to the correct position and hopefully take the correct angles to harness more of his speed. Dunbar is faster than Fuller and probably still retains that edge in play speed, especially if we are talking about playing on the outside. But, we might be safe to project better use of Moreau's and Apke's speed in JDR's system compared to Manusky's, which is another plus.

I have a hard time projecting schematic speed when we haven’t seen the scheme in action yet. 
 

We’ve seen a JDR D. We’ve seen a Rivera D and we’ve seen a McDermott/Rivera D, but we haven’t seen this version yet. It’s probably a safe bet that they play faster in this D, but without mini camps and OTAs it may take some time to gel and come together. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

3 hours ago, carex said:

 

seems like you're underrating him, I've heard he was a key player on the defense

 

I've just heard from too many Chiefs guys, fans and reporters.  They all said Bree was better, much better to some. Fuller really struggled at times in KC while playing corner.  He's an upgrade at a very weak position but again he's not all that.  The guy from Philly Darby was flat out horrible, i actually called my best friend who is an Eagles fan to tease him about Darby.  

[Fresh8686]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I have a hard time projecting schematic speed when we haven’t seen the scheme in action yet. 
 

We’ve seen a JDR D. We’ve seen a Rivera D and we’ve seen a McDermott/Rivera D, but we haven’t seen this version yet. It’s probably a safe bet that they play faster in this D, but without mini camps and OTAs it may take some time to gel and come together. 

 

Yup, I feel you on that. I'm definitely projecting/guessing, but the thing I feel might be safest to hang my hat on is JDR having a much better marriage between his rush and coverage concepts compared to manusky, especially on 3rd down. I'm feeling like that alone will lead to better positioning and less false steps.

I don't know much about Darby though, other than his 40 time and a vague hope that he will play more like he did with the Bills than the Eagles in our system.

[CommandB11]

9 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I've just heard from too many Chiefs guys, fans and reporters.  They all said Bree was better, much better to some. Fuller really struggled at times in KC while playing corner.  He's an upgrade at a very weak position but again he's not all that.  The guy from Philly Darby was flat out horrible, i actually called my best friend who is an Eagles fan to tease him about Darby.  

Fuller was playing a lot of FS for KC. He was not a great safety. He is an excellent slot corner.

[Malapropismic Depository]

10 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I've just heard from too many Chiefs guys, fans and reporters.  They all said Bree was better, much better to some. Fuller really struggled at times in KC while playing corner.  He's an upgrade at a very weak position but again he's not all that. 

 

Seems like there is a lot of evidence to support that Fuller is simply better at slot.

People point out his versatility at the outside and at safety, but most people who analyze him, see that slot was his best performance

[Fresh8686]

Just now, panahoo said:

Fuller was playing a lot of FS for KC. He was not a great safety. He is an excellent slot corner.

 

Plus there was a period of time there where he was only tackling with one arm that could grab worth a damn, because his hand on the other arm had a fractured thumb.

[HTTRDynasty]