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The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby


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That is who I forgot.  Joe Berry.  He was horrible.  I think one of the biggest teams problem was Bruce Allen.  And it isn't necessarily that he was inept.  I think the game passed him by.  He was ruling like his dad ruled, how it was done in the 70'-90's.  Iron fist. pitting people against each other, secrecy.  You listen to Sonny and Billy talk, George Allen used to try to drive a wedge between them.  It was the tactic used regularly.  Bruce, you hear the stories now, didn't tell Jay Gruden he was trading for Alex Smith till it was done, and Jay heard in on the news.  Bruce thought that by keeping people on their toes it made them better.  But that tactic is long gone.   The game, the industry, the profession passed Bruce by some where.  He never changed.  Now he is a dinosaur, and his accomplishments in football will be trivialized, but reality is he ran 3 NFL franchises.  You don't do that.  Everyone on their couch can quickly say, he sucks should be fired.  I just find it a shame that his life's work is going to be trivialized.  He should have been fired.  I get it, I am not saying he did a great job.  As I said the game passed him by.  Happened to George Seifert, happened to Chuck Knoll.  Happened a lot of people over the years.  You have to adapt to keep current and at some point, Allen stayed the same and didn't adapt.  Snyder remembered the stories of Bobby Beathard and Joe Gibbs fighting it out and Jack Kent Cooke being the final vote.  They tried to create that again.  But the problem was that you don't do it that way any more.  Players were commodities, they couldn't move from team to team.  You controlled everything.  Now players and coaches have individual control.  So your best coaches are the ones who get the whole team to care about each other, and not to live in fear of the office.  

 

If you take his moves on an individual basis, they aren't generally that awful.  But when you see how Ron is doing things, how the organization changed the entire way of doing things.  How they are unifying the team, the organization.  There were tons of reports that the organization routinely went against the scouts recommendations.  How one hand didn't know what the other was doing constantly.  

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Shakazullo21 said:

I think one of the biggest teams problem was Bruce Allen.  And it isn't necessarily that he was inept.

 

No, he was inept.

7 minutes ago, Shakazullo21 said:

If you take his moves on an individual basis, they aren't generally that awful.

They were. The Alex Smith trade was awful. The Paul Richardson signing was awful. Terrell McClain and Stacey McGee were awful. He had 1 or 2 good signings (depending on who was actually in charge, Shanny, Him, McCloughan, etc) but generally he made awful moves in a vacuum and in the whole concept of team building.

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3 hours ago, Shakazullo21 said:

I don't want to be a Manusky Apologist.  But he doesn't deserve the level of criticism.  No he was not the best.  He was not the worst either.  Haslett was way worse.  Manusky struggled with personnel.  His schemed were okay, but he couldn't teach the players to execute them.  So no he was not great, but he wasn't inept either.  When we had the whole team we were competitive.  As people got hurt and were replaced by street free agents, rookies draft picks and UDFA's.  Then we went downhill fast.  

 

And as for him taking a job as an assistant at and SEC school.  Just think, he is most likely going to get paid by the Redskins for one more season.  So he doesn't have to work.  He can sit home and collect NFL money.  So you spend a year doing something fun for someone who you are friends with.  Recharge, reboot, and try again in 2021.  He will have to take a step back probably become an LB coach.

Haslett was by far the least worse DC we have had since 2009.   With the exception of the END of 2018 and 2019, Manusky had by far the most talented defense we have fielded this decade.  Heck, the defense we fielded at the end of 2018 was probably almost as good as anything Hasett had most years. Further, remember Haslett got Kerrigan into a more than decent 34 edge in the guy's rookie season while Sweat never really got the LB part. With what has come out recently and the fact that it happened multiple times, the narrative surrounding Norman, Swearinger, Breeland, Clinton-Dix and Cravens may need to be revisited.

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On 4/1/2020 at 2:24 PM, HTTRDynasty said:

 

“I don’t know why they had to give a fifth for Kyle Allen and then you give away a starting corner (Quinton Dunbar) to Seattle for a fifth,” an exec said. “Maybe the corner wanted a new deal, but at some point you should be able to sell guys on your culture and vision, although that is harder this offseason.”


haha yea maybe he did. Cmon man.

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3 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Jack Del Rio makes our defense a Top 15 just on his coaching ability.

 

We are adding Darby, Fuller and Davis to the secondary ... Davis and Rueben Foster (proving he's healthy) at LB ... and an all-world DE in Chase Young to the DL. Plus switching to a 4-3 schematically. I think we are going to make a huge leap, even with no "big name" CB. I think Fuller-Moreau-Darby-Moreland is a pretty decent 1-4 though certainly not top-heavy. But I think the front 7 will mask that.

 

I mean can you imagine if Foster is healthy? Him and Thomas Davis starting at LB would be light years ahead of what we started in 2019. SDH and Holcomb were forced into lots of playing time and both did okay, but I look forward to them continuing to grow and compete with some uber-talented guys in front of them.

We'd better make a huge leap....the defense is gonna be stacked with talent so there will be no excuses. I expect our defense to carry the team and make opposing offenses uncomfortable....find the weakest link on the other side and abuse it. Thomas Davis should lead the way and show the young guys how to get it done....he's already talked about how much talent there is and how frustrated the guys are. 

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On 4/1/2020 at 2:24 PM, HTTRDynasty said:

“Maybe the corner wanted a new deal, but at some point you should be able to sell guys on your culture and vision, although that is harder this offseason.”

 

This is why I always take reports with a grain of salt--he has been ****ing about a new contract since Rivera was hired. How much are these execs paying attention, if it doesn't directly affect what they're doing with their team? Clearly this guy wasn't. Bucky Brooks questioning Haskins work ethic? No ****. That was a report from several months ago--since Smith and Rivera have both credited Haskins work at Redskins Park. it seems a lot of these quotes are based on old information.

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I took it as him saying “ya man, maybe he wants that new deal as reported, but at some point you gotta sell the culture and vision”

 

Not as “Maybe the reason this didn’t work was the corner might have possibly wanted a new deal!

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2 hours ago, carex said:

 

bad NFL players don't last long enough to be unrestricted free agents

 

Sure they do. Plenty of "bad" players have NFL jobs. Not bad compared to the human population. Bad compared to the NFL. It's all relative. There is always a bottom population of players rotating in and out of the league. These types of players are bad by being markedly worse in comparison to their better peers, by definition. If you're one of those people who says "you can't call anyone who makes the NFL bad, they've all earned a roster spot as a professional", fine. It's just a word meant to convey a feeling.

 

If you prefer to call them bottom-tier studs or the worst of the world's best, whatever. It's semantics. They are bad compared to better players. They are still NFL players, better than most of the human population at their chosen sport, no one can take that away from them. And a lot are bad because they aren't developed properly or never get a chance to get better. But it is what it is. 

 

But you knew all this and are just nitpicking because you don't like that he used the word "bad" in relation to players we signed, when he clearly meant worse than average NFL players (which by any reasonable definition means "bad" compared to their peers). 

 

I'm not saying I agree completely with his point, just trying to shoot this particular argument dead because it's annoying. It's clear what he meant.

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34 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

We'd better make a huge leap....the defense is gonna be stacked with talent so there will be no excuses. I expect our defense to carry the team and make opposing offenses uncomfortable....find the weakest link on the other side and abuse it.

 

If this is how fans are thinking, this is going to be a long season. Sure, we should be better on defense. We have a potentially great front 7 and a very good, proven veteran DC. But our LB corps and secondary are in such trouble in comparison, it should keep our expectations in check. This post seems unrealistically positive to me. 

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3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I took it as him saying “ya man, maybe he wants that new deal as reported, but at some point you gotta sell the culture and vision”

 

Not as “Maybe the reason this didn’t work was the corner might have possibly wanted a new deal!

 

I see what you're saying--and you're probably right. But, if his culture and vision is "I want people who want to be here" there is no real selling that. As Mike Rizzo said "You're either 'in' or you're 'in the way.'" He's getting rid of any malcontent--something we've never really done under Snyder. Both players who said they wanted out have been granted just that. And it doesn't sound like it's an acrimonious "**** you" like it was with Allen. It's more of an emotionless "Ok, we will send you on your way."

 

As for the return for Dunbar--meh. Not great, but he's started just 25 games in his career, and 17 in the last 2. Darius Slay--who is much more reliable and had a better career--went for a 3rd and 5th, there wasn't a robust market.

 

I dunno, just seems out of touch.

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4 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

If this is how fans are thinking, this is going to be a long season. Sure, we should be better on defense. We have a potentially great front 7 and a very good, proven veteran DC. But our LB corps and secondary are in such trouble in comparison, it should keep our expectations in check. This post seems unrealistically positive to me. 

 

I don't expect a dominant defense right away--but I believe it'll be a drastically different defense, and not just the base formation. Remember how amazing our defense was the start of 2018? Elliot 15 Car 33 yrds, Barkley 13 car 38 yards. And then the Falcons, a mid-20s rushing team, put up 154 yards on the ground on us (I don't recall any significant injury) and we had no answer, no adjustment, we just got gashed. Repeatedly. And Mason Foster ripped Manusky, they cut Swearinger who bashed Manusky...seems like a common thread there. I am very interested to see how we do this year with JDR.

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1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

Sure they do. Plenty of "bad" players have NFL jobs. Not bad compared to the human population. Bad compared to the NFL. It's all relative. There is always a bottom population of players rotating in and out of the league. These types of players are bad by being markedly worse in comparison to their better peers, by definition. If you're one of those people who says "you can't call anyone who makes the NFL bad, they've all earned a roster spot as a professional", fine. It's just a word meant to convey a feeling.

 

If you prefer to call them bottom-tier studs or the worst of the world's best, whatever. It's semantics. They are bad compared to better players. They are still NFL players, better than most of the human population at their chosen sport, no one can take that away from them. And a lot are bad because they aren't developed properly or never get a chance to get better. But it is what it is. 

 

But you knew all this and are just nitpicking because you don't like that he used the word "bad" in relation to players we signed, when he clearly meant worse than average NFL players (which by any reasonable definition means "bad" compared to their peers). 

 

I'm not saying I agree completely with his point, just trying to shoot this particular argument dead because it's annoying. It's clear what he meant.

 

 

I said bad NFL players don't make it to unrestricted free agency, not the NFL.  They stick for a year or two then get replaced by the next cheaper wave of UDFA barely NFL caliber players. 

 

And no it's not clear what he meant because as far as I'm concerned this board is full of anti-homers, people who seem to think if we're interested in a player he can't actually be good.  I'm not accusing him in particular, but I've seen it around.

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2 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

If this is how fans are thinking, this is going to be a long season. Sure, we should be better on defense. We have a potentially great front 7 and a very good, proven veteran DC. But our LB corps and secondary are in such trouble in comparison, it should keep our expectations in check. This post seems unrealistically positive to me. 

If our line gets to the next level, like it should with better coaching, everyone will be better. I guess I'm not as concerned about our secondary as you are and I'm very excited about our linebackers, especially if Foster comes back at some point. I expect our young guys to step up with better coaching....I just can't judge guys like Moreau, Moreland, D. Johnson and Stroman based on the previous regime...Del Rio's track record is very good and he says he likes the talent we have on defense to work with. That's why I'm positive.

You know why else I'm positive; the NFC East may be worse next year than it was in 2019 so we should have a chance.

Edited by kingdaddy
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23 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

 

 

https://twitter.com/Jaankhan_/status/1245869500055994372/photo/1

 

I don't know if this will post, but the math is wrong in the above tweet. 

 

The bonus is 1 million per year-

 

So year 1 1mill base + 1 mill prorated signing bonus + 468,750 if he plays all 16. 

 

Year 2- 3.5 mill base + 1 mill prorated + 500K game bonus (5mill hit)

 

Year 3- 4.5 mill base + 1 mill prorated + 500K game bonus (6 mill hit)

 

If cut after year one there would be a 2 mill dead cap hit, not 200k.

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@jsharrin55


Yep,

 

He's pulling them from Over The Cap which is what most people seem to use, I typically use Spotrac because I can't stand OTC's interface but this is what Spotrac has and it seems to be correct.

 

1.thumb.png.143f4450f9b680fadb1fa9712d1dfbf7.png

Edited by JSSkinz
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I don’t see a big problem with the free agents signed. Sure they are lacking talent but we aren’t investing much so we can make easy cuts and play rookies and UDFAs if necessary.

 

What it is doing is giving the coaches a foundation of guys who will do things the coaches way, establishing a foundation to work on instead of unreliable players and complainers.

 

i think the running back signings are underrated, we’ve had problems there for years. Both McKissic and barber are pros. I also like having Kyle Allen on the team.

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7 hours ago, Darth Tater said:

Haslett was by far the least worse DC we have had since 2009.   

 

Hazlett > Berry > Manusky

 

It's like getting punched in the gut, then kicked in the nuts, then lit on fire.

Edited by DiscoBob
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  • Riggo-toni changed the title to The Official ES 2020 Free Agency Thread /Tracker... Kendall Fuller,OG Schweitzer, KP Louis, Thomas Davis, McKissic, TE Logan Thomas, OT Lucas, QB Kyle Allen (trd 5th Rd pick), RB P. Barber, LB Davis, Ronald Darby

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