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OC - Scott Turner incoming


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9 minutes ago, skeenzfan said:

 

How do you know how much rein he was given to run the offense his way? We know from multiple reports that Callahan wanted to run a conservative offense with a rookie QB so KOC prob worked under some constraints. You keep harping that he had the 2nd worst record in the NFL - last I checked one side of the team is not solely responsible for the record. 


You just made my point. The dude has not proven anything ever and his only year of experience as an OC was under the thumb of 2 offensive minded head coaches. 
 

An equivalent to Jack Del Rio as OC is what makes the most sense to me. A Jim Caldwell/ Norv Turner type of resume.

 

But it might work out great with KOC . We will see.

 

 

Edited by SoCalSkins
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One thing to keep in mind is that Rivera has had a few weeks to sit back and study this team. I’m sure he studied the offense intently. Thus, he was able to get a better feel for O’Connell. 
 

the unique advantages of the rookie interim OC coupled with him having nothing to do but twiddle his thumbs makes it likely that Rivera had strong opinions about the coaching staff before he signed on. 

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So Casserly (on Sheehan's show) was asked if KOC had a chance to stay. Casserly mentioned the Julie Donaldson tweet, but also kinda cut off Kevin and said "who wouldn't" when Kevin was asking him if Rivera would want him on his staff. And mentioned O'Connell's relationship with Haskins and his smarts. 

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2 hours ago, SoCalSkins said:


You want to ignore the most plausible explanation on why a proven defensive minded head coach In a brand new job would hand his offense over to guy who has been an OC for a single year under two offensive minded head coaches and produced the second worst record in the NFL.

This reads word for word what happened in 2018 when Grogg picked Freddie Kitchens to be his OC for the rest of 2018. Only difference was Freddie didn't even start the season with the "OC in name only" badge.

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The real question is if KOC was getting the kind of chatter on another team with the same resume and he was hired here, would socal be making the same argument that there has to be owner interference, he's not someone Rivera would hire on his own.  He's a young guy that may or may not be given a shot, someone has to do it.

 

I don't see hiring him any different than a a young mcvay, shanny, lafluer or even a guy like bieniemy who is oc but doesn't call plays and who knows how involved he really is.

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29 minutes ago, MariusVT said:

The real question is if KOC was getting the kind of chatter on another team with the same resume and he was hired here, would socal be making the same argument that there has to be owner interference, he's not someone Rivera would hire on his own.  He's a young guy that may or may not be given a shot, someone has to do it.

 

I don't see hiring him any different than a a young mcvay, shanny, lafluer or even a guy like bieniemy who is oc but doesn't call plays and who knows how involved he really is.


If you don’t have experience as an offensive coach you typically work under an offensive minded head coach to gain experience and work with the head coach to develop and grow. Name an example where a defensive head coach hired an OC with a single year of experience particularly one working under a head coach who called plays. KOC is simply not experienced enough.
 

Ron just said “if I ask you to draw a map don’t draw it unless you have been there.” He was explaining why Jack Del Rio was a priority and that he wants coaches with experience. 

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On the other hand, the press conference kind of confirmed my speculation. Rivera has been watching this team for weeks and studying it in detail. An interview with KOC isn't a matter of Rivera caving to a tweet from Haskins and a nudge from Dan. He has observed how the offense was growing and functioning under O'Connell and that is the predicate of his decision to keep or let go.

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Is there anything about KOC that makes us want to keep him aside from the fact that we are still feeling the shame of once having McVay on staff and if you squint really hard, you can see a resemblance?

 

Is there anything about KOC as a play caller/human being that makes keeping him essential? Or is this literally just, "We can't lose the homecoming queen again."

 

I say this, because the best play in our offense the last two years has been "Hand the ball to the old guy and hope something good happens."

Edited by Lombardi's_kid_brother
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2 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

Hope this works out but Rivera may just flat out have another philosphy on the offense he wants to run.

 

HigSkins, you and SIP are the best posters on this board.  I look forward to reading your post.  They 90% of the time include a tweet from a legit source.  Thank you and I thank SIP for his work.  It's appreciated.  :)

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1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:

Ron just said “if I ask you to draw a map don’t draw it unless you have been there.” He was explaining why Jack Del Rio was a priority and that he wants coaches with experience. 

He was talking about having somebody on his staff who's done it before, ala Jack Del Rio. He didn't say every coach needs to be a former head coach

 

He also said I don't need to have great big names, but I have to have great teachers. And he mentioned knowing the why. That was interesting because KOC talked about the great thing about playing with Haskins and getting to the why of the plays. 

Edited by Thinking Skins
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6 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

This thread should also make mention of other OC options, incase it's not KoC.

 

KOC has a great reputation, for whatever that's worth. To me, that means if we hire him and he succeeds, he'll be a head coaching candidate as soon as next year. I'd love to have him run the offense, but would prefer stability to be honest.

With that in mind, I think I want Pat Shurmur. Very successful OC who has failed twice as a head coach. He would be here until/unless he fails. He's essentially a little younger Norv Turner insofar as his HC days are behind him. That would give us the stability we need, perhaps without the exciting upside of a KOC.

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The only extrapolation working from the idea that Ron's top choice isn't available is to start a sifting process. And interviewing O'Connell in the simplest conclusion is due diligence. 

 

The person who Ron thinks is the best offensive mind in the game, which arguably could be Sean Payton if you asked Ron, but his otherwise ride or die guy who he'd like to work with for his redemption story, is just not available. 

 

If one starts the interview process with the existing OC, O'Connell, stands to reason that a master list also needs to be explored and informal interviews need to take place simultaneously. An official announced interview would be kinda window dressing, for like, the final stages once the list has been whittled down and trying to seal the deal. 

 

There are certainly several seasoned NFL coaches out there available who have had head coaching experience and OC experience for years in the league. And some of those same coaches are ones that Ron has coached against, respected opponents (which is another attribute I'd propose is of interest to Ron).

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1 hour ago, SoCalSkins said:


If you don’t have experience as an offensive coach you typically work under an offensive minded head coach to gain experience and work with the head coach to develop and grow. Name an example where a defensive head coach hired an OC with a single year of experience particularly one working under a head coach who called plays. KOC is simply not experienced enough.
 

Ron just said “if I ask you to draw a map don’t draw it unless you have been there.” He was explaining why Jack Del Rio was a priority and that he wants coaches with experience. 

@SoCalSkins - while I disagree with your assessment - your opinion is one to pay attention to.  However, I heard something last night from Bill Polian that needs to be considered - you can only hire guys who are available.  So, while there's a chance KOC isn't #1 on Rivera's list - he may end up having to go with him.  You certainly don't think Norv would come back as OC...... 

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1 hour ago, Burgold said:

On the other hand, the press conference kind of confirmed my speculation. Rivera has been watching this team for weeks and studying it in detail. An interview with KOC isn't a matter of Rivera caving to a tweet from Haskins and a nudge from Dan. He has observed how the offense was growing and functioning under O'Connell and that is the predicate of his decision to keep or let go.

From the presser I would say there's 80% chance O'Connell is our next OC. Exception being if some kind of great opportunity presents itself this month.

 

35 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

The only alternative meaning that Rivera interviewing O'Connell possibly says to me is that Ron's top offensive choice was not available.

Or is not yet available because it's coaching a playoff team? I'm not putting this possibility to rest, but right now, I believe O'Connell has the lead. And I could like it, the young guy, could learn a lot with guys like Rivera and Del Rio.

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3 minutes ago, jjpomeroy said:

@SoCalSkins - while I disagree with your assessment - your opinion is one to pay attention to.  However, I heard something last night from Bill Polian that needs to be considered - you can only hire guys who are available.  So, while there's a chance KOC isn't #1 on Rivera's list - he may end up having to go with him.  You certainly don't think Norv would come back as OC...... 

 

Jim Caldwell is one of the best offensive minds. He’s available. He’s a slam dunk. Ron as HC with Del Rio as DC and Caldwell as OC is a pretty formidable staff. 

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6 minutes ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

Jim Caldwell is one of the best offensive minds. He’s available. He’s a slam dunk. Ron as HC with Del Rio as DC and Caldwell as OC is a pretty formidable staff. 

 

I'll bite. Is Caldwell even available? Last I heard he was technically under contract with Miami, but on a leave of absence to address health issues. Even assuming his health was no longer an issue, you'd need Miami to grant permission. And you'd need Caldwell to be interested in the job.

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1 minute ago, Jericho said:

 

I'll bite. Is Caldwell even available? Last I heard he was technically under contract with Miami, but on a leave of absence to address health issues. Even assuming his health was no longer an issue, you'd need Miami to grant permission. And you'd need Caldwell to be interested in the job.


I would be surprised if they aren’t already talking. Ron said he was granted permission to speak to staff by another team during the press conference. 

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1 minute ago, SoCalSkins said:

 

Jim Caldwell is one of the best offensive minds. He’s available. He’s a slam dunk. Ron as HC with Del Rio as DC and Caldwell as OC is a pretty formidable staff. 

 

It isn't quite as simple as that - what's his relationship with Rivera?  Have they worked together?  Do they have the same philosophies? 

 

Again, I am a glass is half-full guy and will err on the side Rivera is free to make his own decisions.  Remember, he's coming in a position of power - Snyder needs him a whole lot more than he needs Snyder.  He has had options.

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5 minutes ago, Jericho said:

 

I'll bite. Is Caldwell even available? Last I heard he was technically under contract with Miami, but on a leave of absence to address health issues. Even assuming his health was no longer an issue, you'd need Miami to grant permission. And you'd need Caldwell to be interested in the job.

 

Chan Gailey has left Shady Acres Retirement Village to run Miami's offense. Caldwell is available and would be a tremendous hire. I guess it all depends on whether his offensive philosophy meshes with what Rivera wants. I'd be A-OK with Caldwell on staff.

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