Welcome to the Redskins Chase Young DE Ohio State

[Leonard Washington]

On 10/6/2021 at 9:54 AM, Morneblade said:

 

The fact that it's 3rd and 3 and the defenders drop 10 yards seems like the coaching issue.

We’ve have been employing  this technique for 10 years. 

[Morneblade]

2 minutes ago, Leonard Washington said:

We’ve have been employing  this technique for 10 years. 

 

I guess we keep hiring the wrong ones?

[Koolblue13]

If you press your corners, you need to have good safeties. We have not had good safeties. Otherwise, it's a TD not a first down.

[Darrell Green Fan]

On 10/6/2021 at 3:45 AM, Panninho said:

That is true for sure but it feels like opposing players are open within 1-2 seconds because our soft zone just sucks. How fast is that pass rush supposed to get home? Not arguing that they have been amazing but they also haven't been as bad as people claim. I read somwhere that we are 6th or so in pressure percentage. That doesn't translate to sacks though if the QB always has a guy immediately wide open somewhere.

Look at these pictures below. It's a 3rd & 3 in the RZ. We were showing blitz but every DB was lining up 7-8 yards deep and actually backpadelling as soon as the ball was snapped. Ryan got smoked on that play but not before he found his TE for an easy 6 or 7 yards completion because there was absolutely no one even in the area of that dude - and he had two other dudes wide open. That ball was out in under 2 seconds (look at the game clock, that ball was snapped at :27 and is almost there at :26). And I feel like that happens all the time and there is really nothing that the D-line can do about these things.

 

 

Those pictures are pretty damning, especially the 2nd one where you had 2 guys wide open and a 3rd  open in the next step. On 3rd and 3 in the red zone where you don't have to worry about getting beat deep.  This is incredibly frustrating.   

 

With that said this does not absolve the DL from their issue.  I  agree with the earlier poster.  We hear a good pass rush can help a secondary, we rarely hear of a good secondary needing to help the DL get home because that's not how it's supposed to work.  With that said one of my pet peeves is on a coverage sack they only credit the guy who got the sack on the telecast, they rarely mention the player whose coverage made the play.  That always bugged me. 

Edited October 8, 2021 by Darrell Green Fan

[Going Commando]

Our problems are coverage breakdowns.  On the play @Panninho posted, looks like cover 1 double A gap blitz where the Mike faked blitz then dropped into a middle zone where he had zero chance of being able to cover that TE running through that middle seam. And the safety is nowhere to be found even though he's the only one with a chance at covering that TE.  He'll of course be off somewhere uselessly covering grass.  A far dumber and less experienced QB than Matt Ryan could easily see them lined up in off man showing a double A gap blitz, see that no one is covering the TE pre snap, and know it will be wide open and an easy money conversion.

 

The DL isn't the problem.  Fitting the run hasn't been a problem and they are generating pressure.  The back seven have just been that bad.  William Jackson has been awful and an expensive bust so far.  The safeties have been horrendous. St Juste is getting a rough education.  Kendall Fuller has been very up and down.  McTyer finally got some run, played well, then promptly got knocked put for the year on a flukey collision defending a hail Mary.  And the linebackers are getting torched over and over again every game.  They're either blowing their coverages or being put in impossible situations, and they're not offering any value as blitzers.  The only blitzes we've had success with have been overloads from the slot.

[Darrell Green Fan]

39 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Our problems are coverage breakdowns.  On the play @Panninho posted, looks like cover 1 double A gap blitz where the Mike faked blitz then dropped into a middle zone where he had zero chance of being able to cover that TE running through that middle seam. And the safety is nowhere to be found even though he's the only one with a chance at covering that TE.  He'll of course be off somewhere uselessly covering grass.  A far dumber and less experienced QB than Matt Ryan could easily see them lined up in off man showing a double A gap blitz, see that no one is covering the TE pre snap, and know it will be wide open and an easy money conversion.

 

The DL isn't the problem.  Fitting the run hasn't been a problem and they are generating pressure.  The back seven have just been that bad.  William Jackson has been awful and an expensive bust so far.  The safeties have been horrendous. St Juste is getting a rough education.  Kendall Fuller has been very up and down.  McTyer finally got some run, played well, then promptly got knocked put for the year on a flukey collision defending a hail Mary.  And the linebackers are getting torched over and over again every game.  They're either blowing their coverages or being put in impossible situations, and they're not offering any value as blitzers.  The only blitzes we've had success with have been overloads from the slot.

 

There is little question that the back end is a major problem. But I have to disagree with you that the DL is getting pressure. They are not, certainly not at the level that was expected from the unit who was to be the key to this defense. And it can't all be blamed on quick throws, there have been countless instances of longer plays where only 1 DL gets through (if that) and he is avoided by the QB who then make a play against this terrible coverage.  

[Master Blaster]

Based on my observations of a few games now into the season, I think Chase is about 10-15lbs too heavy.

 

His explosiveness is not there, and neither is his conditioning.  He looks bigger and stronger but it's not translating into explosiveness on the field. 

 

He needs to play at a lighter weight.

[sprcr]

I just dont see a DL issue. I see a secondary issue that manifests in less pressure.  Turns out its a team game.

[Koolblue13]

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32176833/2021-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

 

Our defensive line is #11 in pass rush win rate and Payne is in the top 10 for pressures. Our Dline is doing pretty well.

 

Team Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Cleveland Browns, 59%
2. Carolina Panthers, 58%
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 52%
4. Philadelphia Eagles, 51%
5. Pittsburgh Steelers, 51%
6. Los Angeles Rams, 51%
7. New York Jets, 49%
8. Las Vegas Raiders, 49%
9. Los Angeles Chargers, 49%
10. Buffalo Bills, 48%
11. Washington Football Team, 47%
12. Seattle Seahawks, 47%
13. Tennessee Titans, 46%
14. San Francisco 49ers, 46%
15. Miami Dolphins, 44%
16. Arizona Cardinals, 44%

 

I meant to quote @Darrell Green Fan here with this " But I have to disagree with you that the DL is getting pressure. "

Edited October 8, 2021 by Koolblue13

[Warhead36]

Honestly you invest four first rounders including a #2 overall into a single position group they should be a lot better than just 11th.

[Die Hard]

2 hours ago, sprcr said:

I just dont see a DL issue. I see a secondary issue that manifests in less pressure.  Turns out its a team game.

It’s all 3 levels of the defence. Nobody is playing well. But 2 of those levels were expected to be performing at a high level. And if this defence is going to take a step forward, it’s going to require of those 2 to step up, but we’d prefer both. At the same time. Like yesterday already. This is year 2. And we have a decent offence right now to help.

[moondog]

30 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Honestly you invest four first rounders including a #2 overall into a single position group they should be a lot better than just 11th.

Honestly you invest $100M+ in db’s collins, fuller and Jackson they should be able to cover more than 2 seconds so someone on the dline can get home. 

[Warhead36]

5 minutes ago, moondog said:

Honestly you invest $100M+ in db’s collins, fuller and Jackson they should be able to cover more than 2 seconds so someone on the dline can get home. 

I don't disagree, but this defense was built under the principle that the DL would dominate, consistently collapsing the pocket and making life a living hell for opposing QBs.

 

How often has that happened? I can't recall even a single sack this year(the few that we've had)that weren't coverage sacks.

[Koolblue13]

57 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

Honestly you invest four first rounders including a #2 overall into a single position group they should be a lot better than just 11th.

I meant to quote @Darrell Green Fan and I don't disagree with you. That should be a top flight unit, but there are other factors and right now, the line is doing it's job. The back half isn't.

[PartyPosse]

30 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

I don't disagree, but this defense was built under the principle that the DL would dominate, consistently collapsing the pocket and making life a living hell for opposing QBs.

 

How often has that happened? I can't recall even a single sack this year(the few that we've had)that weren't coverage sacks.

Hard to get consistent pressure when the QBs have the ball out of their hands in 2.5 seconds. What do you want the guys to do, go through their blockers?

[Warhead36]

7 minutes ago, PartyPosse said:

Hard to get consistent pressure when the QBs have the ball out of their hands in 2.5 seconds. What do you want the guys to do, go through their blockers?

But that hasn't always been the case. I mean look at all our 3rd and long conversions. You don't convert 3rd and 10+ in 2.5 seconds. Many of those plays the QB has all day to throw.

[KDawg]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Our problems are coverage breakdowns.  On the play @Panninho posted, looks like cover 1 double A gap blitz where the Mike faked blitz then dropped into a middle zone where he had zero chance of being able to cover that TE running through that middle seam. And the safety is nowhere to be found even though he's the only one with a chance at covering that TE.  He'll of course be off somewhere uselessly covering grass.  A far dumber and less experienced QB than Matt Ryan could easily see them lined up in off man showing a double A gap blitz, see that no one is covering the TE pre snap, and know it will be wide open and an easy money conversion.

 

The DL isn't the problem.  Fitting the run hasn't been a problem and they are generating pressure.  The back seven have just been that bad.  William Jackson has been awful and an expensive bust so far.  The safeties have been horrendous. St Juste is getting a rough education.  Kendall Fuller has been very up and down.  McTyer finally got some run, played well, then promptly got knocked put for the year on a flukey collision defending a hail Mary.  And the linebackers are getting torched over and over again every game.  They're either blowing their coverages or being put in impossible situations, and they're not offering any value as blitzers.  The only blitzes we've had success with have been overloads from the slot.

 

The DL is A problem. Not THE problem.

 

I thought, on first watch, WJ3 played relatively well the first few games. But against the Falcons he looked awful.

 

Our secondary is bottom 5-10 in the league.

 

Our backers, prior to Davis being a full time player, were the worst in the league. The addition of Davis may bump them a couple of notches to bottom 3-4 (and no, this isn't an indictment of Davis, it's that he's inexperienced at the MIKE spot they are trying to get him to understand and he's thinking still and not playing)

[wit33]

In other news,

Chandler Jones has failed to register another sack after 5 in week 1. 

[Going Commando]

20 minutes ago, Warhead36 said:

But that hasn't always been the case. I mean look at all our 3rd and long conversions. You don't convert 3rd and 10+ in 2.5 seconds. Many of those plays the QB has all day to throw.

 

Third and longs are almost always going to be six man protections on our line and we use four man rushes because we have no confidence in our coverage or ability to blitz.  And we're still getting quick coverage breakdowns on these conversions.  11th in the NFL in pressure rate ain't bad and they've been good against the run.  We could be getting more pressure from our group, and we probably will as the season unfolds.  But the line is not getting smoked and dominated by their match ups.  The secondary is.  And the linebackers have been lost too, especially Bostic.  I don't understand why recognizing this has been so controversial, it's like this fanbase wants to scapegoat Chase Young for all of our problems.

[Going Commando]

12 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

The DL is A problem. Not THE problem.

 

I thought, on first watch, WJ3 played relatively well the first few games. But against the Falcons he looked awful.

 

Our secondary is bottom 5-10 in the league.

 

Our backers, prior to Davis being a full time player, were the worst in the league. The addition of Davis may bump them a couple of notches to bottom 3-4 (and no, this isn't an indictment of Davis, it's that he's inexperienced at the MIKE spot they are trying to get him to understand and he's thinking still and not playing)

 

They're not a problem.  They've been mildly disappointing, but they are still playing better than average by the standard of league DL play, and the IDLs have been playing legitimately well.  Jackson has been dog****.  Hopefully he settles in and plays well soon because his cap hit takes a huge jump next season.  Our corner play has been a disaster and so has our safety play.  Agreed that our LBers have been awful but that is a much easier fix than the secondary.  It's a two man group and we have a first rounder in development.  Change one linebacker and you've made a big potential gain.  There aren't any quick or obvious fixes for the secondary.  We just have to hope they can figure things out at some point this season.  It's not like we didn't spend money on them, they are an expensive group and shouldn't be getting killed like this.

[KDawg]

Just now, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

They're not a problem.  They've been mildly disappointing, but they are still playing better than average by the standard of league DL play, and the IDLs have been playing legitimately well.  Jackson has been dog****.  Hopefully he settles in and plays well soon because his cap hit takes a huge jump next season.  Our corner play has been a disaster and so has our safety play.  Agreed that our LBers have been awful but that is a much easier fix than the secondary.  It's a two man group and we have a first rounder in development.  Change one linebacker and you've made a big potential gain.  There aren't any quick or obvious fixes for the secondary.  We just have to hope they can figure things out at some point this season.  It's not like we didn't spend money on them, they are an expensive group and shouldn't be getting killed like this.

The entire defense is a problem. When you are as bad as they are the entire unit gets the blame.

 

They are the least of the problems. I will give you that.

[dyst]

4 hours ago, Master Blaster said:

Based on my observations of a few games now into the season, I think Chase is about 10-15lbs too heavy.

 

His explosiveness is not there, and neither is his conditioning.  He looks bigger and stronger but it's not translating into explosiveness on the field. 

 

He needs to play at a lighter weight.

That’s what I see also. Looks way less quick

[PartyPosse]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

don't understand why recognizing this has been so controversial, it's like this fanbase wants to scapegoat Chase Young for all of our problems.

People get so dug into their beliefs and opinions that they’ll create any narrative that reinforces them. With that said, the problem with the DL is that any elite defense needs one area that’s dominant. It was supposed to be the front 4 and while they’re not as bad as some claim, they’re also not as superior as they need to be.

[JSSkinz]

5 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/32176833/2021-nfl-pass-rushing-run-stopping-blocking-leaderboard-win-rate-rankings

 

Our defensive line is #11 in pass rush win rate and Payne is in the top 10 for pressures. Our Dline is doing pretty well.

 

Team Pass Rush Win Rate

1. Cleveland Browns, 59%
2. Carolina Panthers, 58%
3. Tampa Bay Buccaneers, 52%
4. Philadelphia Eagles, 51%
5. Pittsburgh Steelers, 51%
6. Los Angeles Rams, 51%
7. New York Jets, 49%
8. Las Vegas Raiders, 49%
9. Los Angeles Chargers, 49%
10. Buffalo Bills, 48%
11. Washington Football Team, 47%
12. Seattle Seahawks, 47%
13. Tennessee Titans, 46%
14. San Francisco 49ers, 46%
15. Miami Dolphins, 44%
16. Arizona Cardinals, 44%

 

I meant to quote @Darrell Green Fan here with this " But I have to disagree with you that the DL is getting pressure. "

I've seen the IDL flush the QB from the pocket quite a bit, especially against Buffalo.

 

I would be interested to see that % broken down between IDL and the outside rushers.

[Warhead36]

2 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Third and longs are almost always going to be six man protections on our line and we use four man rushes because we have no confidence in our coverage or ability to blitz.  And we're still getting quick coverage breakdowns on these conversions.  11th in the NFL in pressure rate ain't bad and they've been good against the run.  We could be getting more pressure from our group, and we probably will as the season unfolds.  But the line is not getting smoked and dominated by their match ups.  The secondary is.  And the linebackers have been lost too, especially Bostic.  I don't understand why recognizing this has been so controversial, it's like this fanbase wants to scapegoat Chase Young for all of our problems.

I'm not scapegoating Young, but he has not played up to the level of the investment in him. A #2 overall pick by this point needs to be a lot better than he's been. He is the foundational block of our D. He's been getting blocked one on one all year and sometimes by TEs.

 

No disagreement with you or anyone else on the LBs or secondary. They have sucked too. I'm not sure what the deal with Jackson and Fuller are. Fuller was pretty good last year and Jackson by all counts has always been a good man to man guy. Both have been getting roasted.