Next Day Thread: Redskins vs. Lions

[MartinC]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Well since I obviously am not smart enough to get it would you mind spelling it out to me?  I'm not being  snarky, I'd really like to understand the post.  If you are saying the questions were unfair I disagree. The guy missed the final play as he mugged with the fans. As nobody has ever seen this before as i said those questions were legit.

 

"Question 1 he gives a great answer, then from question 2 through question 7 his answers were concise and to the point?  Why?  I'd venture to guess that he was pissed that the 2nd and 3rd questions were about missing the kneel down and about missing throws.  Then Questions 8-12 were about football and he went back to expanded answers that were great for a 22yo rookie."

 

The point being made is that he responded with one word or short snarky responses to questions he deemed negative or that focused on the selfie incident - then opened with longer and more engaged answer on football topics.

 

Why do you need the actual answers to get that?

[Rex Tomb]

I actually feel like the questions show the fickleness of the Washington press corps in a  nutshell.  There was a great 1st question and then the negativity started. It's really unfortunate that the press corps decided to focus on what is likely just an immature action that won't happen again.   And to hammer on it for the next several questions is really unfortunate but then again the media in this town is always looking for a controversy. 

[KDawg]

All of you are a trip. 

 

Just wanted to let you know that I am thankful for you all.

[Darrell Green Fan]

8 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

"Question 1 he gives a great answer, then from question 2 through question 7 his answers were concise and to the point?  Why?  I'd venture to guess that he was pissed that the 2nd and 3rd questions were about missing the kneel down and about missing throws.  Then Questions 8-12 were about football and he went back to expanded answers that were great for a 22yo rookie."

 

The point being made is that he responded with one word or short snarky responses to questions he deemed negative or that focused on the selfie incident - then opened with longer and more engaged answer on football topics.

 

Why do you need the actual answers to get that?

 

And this is the defense? That he is allowed to act nasty if he didn't like the questions?  He got asked legit questions, just as Frerote was asked about the head butt, Chris Weber was asked about the timeout, Bill Buckner the ground ball and countless other athletes who have to answer tough questions.  No QB has ever missed the final play as they mugged with fans, it's crazy to think those questions were out of line and that gives him the right to turn nasty. Reporters were just doing their job and whether he likes it or not missing the final play to take a selfie is a story. Asking about his accuracy after going 13 for 29 while missing several easy TD passes are completely legit.  If this is how he reacts to the first series of tough questions, well that's yet another problem.

 

I wanted the answers to understand the context for his "i'm a closer" comment among his other answers.   

[MartinC]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

And this is the defense?  

Defense? 

 

Its an analysis. You can make whatever case from it you choose. But (unless you don't trust the explanation of the answers from the poster, in which case go check yourself) you don't need the answers to support the analysis.

[daveakl]

6 minutes ago, Rex Tomb said:

I actually feel like the questions show the fickleness of the Washington press corps in a  nutshell.  There was a great 1st question and then the negativity started. It's really unfortunate that the press corps decided to focus on what is likely just an immature action that won't happen again.   And to hammer on it for the next several questions is really unfortunate but then again the media in this town is always looking for a controversy. 

All. Of. This.

 

To some extent teams take on the personality of their town. And what's more DC then building someone up only to have someone else angle to take them down. 

[Darrell Green Fan]

7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

Defense? 

 

Its an analysis. You can make whatever case from it you choose. But (unless you don't trust the explanation of the answers from the poster, in which case go check yourself) you don't need the answers to support the analysis.

 

i get it all now. You guys think the big bad media was out of line for asking a question about something that none of us have ever seen before. They apparently are not allowed to ask of his inaccuracy or wrist injury after he missed throws all day long. No they are only supposed to ask the nice questions since they won and all. 

 

I just disagree strongly. This is the big boy league, he needs to stand up and handle all the questions without coping a 'tude and not just respond to the nice questions.  You guys think the DC media is tough, that's nonsense. It's pretty common knowledge that they are much easier on the athletes than in other major markets. 

[Rex Tomb]

6 minutes ago, daveakl said:

All. Of. This.

 

To some extent teams take on the personality of their town. And what's more DC then building someone up only to have someone else angle to take them down. 

Everyone has to be the next Bob Woodward of sports journalism.

[KDawg]

For the life of me, I can't figure out why people defend Haskins on everything he does that's not what you want to see from your quarterback. Cousins, Griffin, McNabb, Banks, Frerotte, Shuler, you name them... each have been criticized each and every time they did something that deserved it. And most of the time, rightfully so. 

 

Why is it, then, that Haskins does something (selfie) that is kinda meh but not too big of a deal, but then compounds it by saying he's a closer on a 2-9 team, that he shouldn't be rightfully chastised?

 

Some people are raking him over the coals, which is nuts, too.

 

Analysis of a situation doesn't mean damning someone. But a lot of you defending the "closer" line are the same people who get upset when a receiver celebrates a touchdown when their team is down 28 points. 

 

It's okay to get on him a little. 

 

Yes, there is overboard. Benching him? Overboard.

 

Saying that he has been immature and that's not what you want out of your franchise quarterback? Reasonable.

 

Let's draw the line in appropriate places.

 

[MartinC]

1 minute ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

i get it all now. You guys think the big bad media was out of line for asking a question about something that none of us have ever seen before. They apparently are not allowed to ask of his inaccuracy or wrist injury after he missed throws all day long. No they are only supposed to ask the nice questions since they won and all.  You guys think the DC media is tough, imagine if Brown did this in NY or Wentz in Philly.

 

I just disagree strongly. This is the big boy league, he needs to stand up and handle all the questions without coping a 'tude and not just respond to the nice questions.

 

I don't recall sharing my views on his press conference. 

 

You are really diving off the deep end on this - my only point to you so far is that you did not need the detailed answers from Haskins to support the point being made in that post - which wa simply that Haskins reacted badly to the questions about hs selfie incident and what he perceived as negative questions and was much more open to questions about football.

 

FWIW - I think he handled the conference badly. But I am a LOT less worried about that than his ability to hit a corner route.

[TradeTheBeal!]

I’m thrilled to see that some of us are finally starting to come around to how disgracefully slanted much of our local media coverage has been of late.  

[daveakl]

2 minutes ago, KDawg said:

For the life of me, I can't figure out why people defend Haskins on everything he does that's not what you want to see from your quarterback.

For me it's the first time defending him and its because I see little to no problem with the press conference. 

 

He just won his 1st game. The teams 1st win at home in over a year. The 2nd question is where were you on the last snap (kind of legit but also kind of snarky, a better question to be asked in front of a locker or not at a moment that should be celebrated) and the next one after is you missed a lot of throws today.  Those are ****ty questions to be asked when and where they were. 

 

The closer comment was in response to a question that asked (and I'm paraphrasing here) "you seem to get better as the game goes, particularly in the 4th with is on the line". I want my QB to feel hes the closer. That he wants the ball in his hands on the last drive to win the game. I want him to succeed doing that and I want him to feel all the feels that go along with it.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, daveakl said:

 

The closer comment was in response to a question that asked (and I'm paraphrasing here) "you seem to get better as the game goes, particularly in the 4th with is on the line". I want my QB to feel hes the closer. That he wants the ball in his hands on the last drive to win the game. I want him to succeed doing that and I want him to feel all the feels that go along with it.

 

I want my QB to feel that way. But I also want my QB to use his head and not bait the media into their narrative. He has been doing this to himself. Public relations 101. Don't say something that's going to put you in the crosshairs.

 

"I'm a closer!" - Sure you are, chief. How many touchdowns have we scored with you in the game? 

 

He opens himself up to it.

 

And the "its on me" stuff. C'mon man. It may sound heroic in your head... Like, "Yeah, I'm telling these guys I will carry us because I care so much!" And he may even mean it that way, but it comes across extremely brash. 

 

He would do well to fix that stuff very quickly. His on-field play hasn't warranted that kind of bravado in the media.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

8 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said:

I’m thrilled to see that some of us are finally starting to come around to how disgracefully slanted much of our local media coverage has been of late.  

 

Art Mills was right all along.

 

It's the media's fault that we are 2-9.

[Darrell Green Fan]

14 minutes ago, KDawg said:

For the life of me, I can't figure out why people defend Haskins on everything he does that's not what you want to see from your quarterback. Cousins, Griffin, McNabb, Banks, Frerotte, Shuler, you name them... each have been criticized each and every time they did something that deserved it. And most of the time, rightfully so. 

 

Why is it, then, that Haskins does something (selfie) that is kinda meh but not too big of a deal, but then compounds it by saying he's a closer on a 2-9 team, that he shouldn't be rightfully chastised?

 

Some people are raking him over the coals, which is nuts, too.

 

Analysis of a situation doesn't mean damning someone. But a lot of you defending the "closer" line are the same people who get upset when a receiver celebrates a touchdown when their team is down 28 points. 

 

It's okay to get on him a little. 

 

Yes, there is overboard. Benching him? Overboard.

 

Saying that he has been immature and that's not what you want out of your franchise quarterback? Reasonable.

 

Let's draw the line in appropriate places.

 

 

Well said. Again my original post had to to with his arrogance, the "closer" comment specifically. For some reason we got off track with all the selfie talk, mostly because the explanation I heard for his behavior in the presser was the result of the question about the selfie and the missed throws. Again I do not consider those questions to be unfair at all, he needs to be able to handle the critical questions and not just answer the ones he likes.  

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, Lombardi's_kid_brother said:

 

Art Mills was right all along.

 

It's the media's fault that we are 2-9.

Imagine if this was NY, team would be 0-16.

[sempre_victrix]

6 hours ago, KDawg said:

For the life of me, I can't figure out why people defend Haskins on everything he does that's not what you want to see from your quarterback. Cousins, Griffin, McNabb, Banks, Frerotte, Shuler, you name them... each have been criticized each and every time they did something that deserved it. And most of the time, rightfully so. 

 

Why is it, then, that Haskins does something (selfie) that is kinda meh but not too big of a deal, but then compounds it by saying he's a closer on a 2-9 team, that he shouldn't be rightfully chastised?

 

Some people are raking him over the coals, which is nuts, too.

 

Analysis of a situation doesn't mean damning someone. But a lot of you defending the "closer" line are the same people who get upset when a receiver celebrates a touchdown when their team is down 28 points. 

 

It's okay to get on him a little. 

 

Yes, there is overboard. Benching him? Overboard.

 

Saying that he has been immature and that's not what you want out of your franchise quarterback? Reasonable.

 

Let's draw the line in appropriate places.

 

 

Personally, I didn’t listen to his post-game comments. He sounds like an immature kid, which he is. He needs to be talked to by the players and coaches about this. 

 

Lets see if he learns and matures in the next 5 games. 

 

This team is such a ****show, his gaffes are minor distractions. I’m more worried about his lack of touch. 

[Thinking Skins]

9 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Maybe if you had supplied his answers instead of just the questions asked we can understand your point better.  If he was really pissed about the missed kneel down questions well that's another problem. Those were legit questions to ask seeing as no QB has ever missed the last play of the game as he mugged with fans. 

 

This story has a lot of the answers, minus the questions. It's on you to do the matching job. 

 

 

[Darrell Green Fan]

4 hours ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

This story has a lot of the answers, minus the questions. It's on you to do the matching job. 

 

 

 

Meh, doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know. A bit early to proclaim Haskins as in possession of the clutch gene.  If you guys can't see the reason for concern over a QB who has had about 4 minutes of good play in 5 games, well good luck with that.   

[KDawg]

2 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Meh, doesn't tell me anything I didn't already know. A bit early to proclaim Haskins as in possession of the clutch gene.  If you guys can't see the reason for concern over a QB who has had about 4 minutes of good play in 5 games, well good luck with that.   

 

I don't get it. 

 

It's almost like they are trying so hard to offset what they perceive to be media negative bias that they are purposely swinging the pendulum as hard as they can in the other direction. Reason, logic, etc. be damned. They are on a mission to prove that the media is evil and has it out for the Redskins. Aside from, you know, the articles they agree with. Those are solid.

 

And, to be quite frank, it goes the other way, too.

 

Not your takes, DGF. I'm pretty much lock-step with you on your Haskins takes. I don't think he's  "finished" yet. And as I have noted, his on-field play has continued to improve week to week from a mechanics point and command and decision perspective. Still not passable mechanically, but I've loved his decisions, pocket awareness, and arm strength. Where he needs significant improvement to be a franchise guy is maturity and accuracy. What's scary about both of those two items is that players in the NFL generally don't shake either one of those items.

 

Accuracy is kind of a "who you are" thing. But, with Haskins, his mechanics are so rough that he may actually be able to improve there. So I do think there is a glimmer of hope. But I don't know that I've ever seen a quarterback with the "immaturity" label turn it around with the franchise that they had the label with.

 

Haskins best hope with the Redskins: A new head coach and general manager. They are chosen based on their abilities, not for their desire to develop Haskins. And whether they roll with Haskins day one or decide they want him as a backup and a couple year project, they design a system around him to really exploit his strengths and limit his weaknesses to mesh with the team's. So far, Haskins has proven to be more mobile than anticipated, so a modified Baltimore system (without as much lean towards Lamar Jackson type stuff) would be a nice base. Whether he starts day one or he's a year 3 or 4 starter is irrelevant. I think he would benefit from developmental time where he is not even considered to be a candidate to be a starter. He's the backup, period. If he starts because of injuries or he's so good in practice they can't deny him? Excellent. But otherwise, you're not competing for the job - yet. Humble yourself. Develop. And let the process happen and you can make it. 

 

Haskins best hope in general: Going to a franchise that values his strengths and can coach him up on the PR side with a strong culture and veteran leadership that can reel him in, but most importantly, has people around him that he respects.

 

I'm not sold on Haskins, but you can't just give up on a young gun because of some mistakes early on.

 

So, back to my original point. The people on the outer edges of this whole debate need to reel it back in. Both sides. Haskins leaves a lot to be desired. He's also not yet a bust. Reign it in, folks. Reign it in!

[Koolblue13]

15 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

 

Some people are raking him over the coals, which is nuts, too.

 

 

Its bonkers. Reading the game day thread it seemed like any bad pass was a justification to define his entire career as a failure. 

 

And now we're back to every thread becoming a QB thread.

 

Hes hand a small handful of starts on a bad team, with short term coaches. Theres no reason to be firmly on either side.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

And now we're back to every thread becoming a QB thread.

 

Based on content alone this thread should be merged with the Dwayne Haskins thread.

 

There's almost no football talk on this forum this week. It's all stuff that happened in a press conference, or on the sideline.

 

Is this a testament to how desperate this fanbase is for a great QB?  We had a good one in Kirk, but that wasn't good enough.

 

[KDawg]

26 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Based on content alone this thread should be merged with the Dwayne Haskins thread.

 

There's almost no football talk on this forum this week. It's all stuff that happened in a press conference, or on the sideline.

 

Is this a testament to how desperate this fanbase is for a great QB?  We had a good one in Kirk, but that wasn't good enough.

 

 

Eh.

 

There's not a whole lot to talk about besides Haskins.

 

We could talk about Williams, if that's up your alley.

 

We made mention of McLaurin/Harmon. Not much to say beyond that they are looking like great picks at the moment and they personify what you want in a draft pick.

 

We could talk about how the OL is going to be decimated by free agency/Bruce Allen's ego... (Penn, Scherff, Flowers, all FA.... Williams likely gone or hold out again).

 

We can talk about how our running backs for next year under contract are Guice (has made it two games without injury, but limited action), Love (IR) and Peterson.

 

We can talk about how our top tight end that is around is Jeremy Sprinkle. 

 

We can talk about Tress Way being a free agent after this upcoming season. 

 

We can talk about Josh Norman getting benched and the D seeing a marked improvement. 

 

We can talk about the need for a FS or if Apke can adequately play the position.

 

We can talk about how our inside backers show a lot of promise but aren't guys you want to rely on every down -- yet.

 

We can talk about how we went another entire game without scoring an offensive touchdown.

 

We can talk about Callahan's running scheme isn't lighting the world on fire, but his friendship with Bruce Allen means he's a candidate to be the next HC anyways.

 

We can talk about how Bruce Allen isn't likely to get fired, and if he is, it's still Snyder hiring the new guy.

 

We can talk about tickets being $4. 

 

We can talk about being in third place in the division. Hooray.

 

We can talk about our continued reliance on injury prone players being a key driver in our franchise's issues.

 

We can talk about how the FO is likely to handcuff any new staff that comes in unless the prime player (Allen) is replaced, and his replacement gets Snyder's ear.

 

The premise of this thread is to talk about the game as well as anything that comes out of the game.

 

It's tough to re-watch these games. It's also extremely difficult to talk about guys who we aren't even sure are going to be around here after another 5 games.

 

The Haskins conversation is very relevant. And while it could be merged into the Haskins general thread, most of this commentary is in reply/reference to his game against the Lions and what came out of it. 

 

The Redskins haven't given us much to talk about besides headlines in these threads. Even the wins have been... lackluster. At best. 

[SkinFanInMinn]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

So, back to my original point. The people on the outer edges of this whole debate need to reel it back in. Both sides. Haskins leaves a lot to be desired. He's also not yet a bust. Reign it in, folks. Reign it in!

Keep it medium everyone.  Your post makes way too much sense for this team and this fanbase.  😋

[daveakl]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

Still not passable mechanically, but I've loved his decisions, pocket awareness, and arm strength. Where he needs significant improvement to be a franchise guy is maturity and accuracy. What's scary about both of those two items is that players in the NFL generally don't shake either one of those items.

 

Accuracy is kind of a "who you are" thing. But, with Haskins, his mechanics are so rough that he may actually be able to improve there. So I do think there is a glimmer of hope. But I don't know that I've ever seen a quarterback with the "immaturity" label turn it around with the franchise that they had the label with.

Decision making, pocket awareness, and arm strength are things that you either have or you don't imo.  

 

I'd argue that everything else (even accuracy) can be taught / learned.

 

I'll support my position with this article here:

 

http://insidethepylon.com/nfl/2016-nfl-draft/2016/03/17/quarterback-traits-the-attainable-versus-the-inherent/

 

Mike Leach would disagree though. lol

 

https://footballscoop.com/news/mike-leach-quarterback-isnt-accurate-shouldnt-recruit/