Next Day Thread: Redskins vs. Lions

[MartinC]

1 hour ago, Probos said:

 

The QB has to have the ultimate situational awareness and professionalism.  He deserves to be grilled for it by the coaches and the fans.  Fooking ridiculous man,.....I woulda been livid if I was the HC.  Ha,..he said he's "closer" -- yeah,...I don't see it. 

 

Apparently the stadium game clock was showing zero. He thought the game was over. He should have known better but frankly that's the least of my concerns with him.

 

His accuracy issues are the thing we should be concerned about. He made some clutch throws, lead a come from behind 4th quarter drive in which he showed good pocket awareness and arm talent. But he missed a wide open TD to Terry and another which was a tougher throw but which an NFL QB has to make. He also missed inside on the ball to Harmon that was picked.

 

His accuracy has to get a lot better if he's going to be a successful NFL QB - and I am in the school that thinks that accuracy is something that a QB largely has or hasn't by the time he gets to the NFL. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

32 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Sims. This guy is a playmaker. I would like to see him get the ball more. If its just screens and sweeps then fine but lets get him in space. I think he could easily replace Quinn as the slot guy, but I think Cal is going to make him do more first before giving it to him. 

 

I was optimistic for Quinn for awhile, but I'm ready for better play from the Slot position.  There are too many throws going Quinn's way that have to be perfect, he doesn't get much separation.  If Sims can work on his route running, he's got potential to be an upgrade there.

 

We bench Josh Norman, and suddenly the coverage looks better.  There was one big gaffe with a wide open TE catching a touchdown.  But besides that, their offense generally had to work for everything.  Unlike the week prior, where the Jets had player after player wide open from coverage breakdowns.

 

I'm wondering if this unit we have is something that can grow.  Can Moreau be far more comfortable on the outside than inside, or is it just 1 game?  Does Holcomb continue to develop, or is this who he is?

[Thinking Skins]

2 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

We bench Josh Norman, and suddenly the coverage looks better.  There was one big gaffe with a wide open TE catching a touchdown.  But besides that, their offense generally had to work for everything.  Unlike the week prior, where the Jets had player after player wide open from coverage breakdowns.

 

I think that gaffe was on Moreau getting a stinger and Simeon Thomas coming in for him that play. 

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

So a young QB, in only his third start, leads his team from behind, at home, on successive scoring drives of 54 and 33 yards, making big plays with both his arm and feet, the last 5 minutes or so of the game, to a win. 

 

He then has the boldfaced temerity to say closing is what he does, after, yanno, he lead his team to CLOSE- first tieing the game, then CLOSE out the win. After confusion in the stadium over the clock which was showing zero when he had the equal gal to indulge a fan in taking a selfie, at said fans behest, for said fans moby, when to all intents and purposes the game was over and he was ecstatic with joy at winning not only his first pro game. But his first one at home in front of friends and family. To then step up on the podium and praise his teammates and Mac in particular. (Sidenote- The one criticism I would have is some of his one-word answers to questions he patently doesn't like. He needs to learn to handle the media better and not make enemies out of them. But that will come with experience.). But have that blasted for the 'closer' remark. 

 

And he's now being branded an immature narcissist and such? 

 

Jeez. Tough, TOUGH crowd. 

 

Hail. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

So a young QB, in only his third start, leads his team from behind, at home, on successive scoring drives of 54 and 33 yards, making big plays with both his arm and feet, the last 5 minutes or so of the game, to a win. 

 

He then has the boldfaced temerity to say closing is what he does, after, yanno, he lead his team to CLOSE first tie the game, then close out the win. After confusion in the stadium over the clock which was showing zero when he had the equal gal to indulge a fan in taking a selfie, at said fans behest, for said fans moby, when to all intents and purposes the game was over and he was ecstatic with joy at winning not only his first pro game. But his first one at home in front of friends and family. To then step up on the podium and praise his teammates and Mac in particular. (Sidenote- The one criticism I would have is some of his one-word answers to questions he patently doesn't like. He needs to learn to handle the media better and not make enemies out of them. But that will come with experience.). But have that blasted for the 'closer' remark. 

 

And he's now being branded an immature narcissist and such? 

 

Jeez. Tough, TOUGH crowd. 

 

Hail. 

 

I'm surprised this take is coming from you, with your general standpoint on discipline.

 

But to answer your question, yes. And it's not a tough crowd. It's a poor look.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

3 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I'm surprised this take is coming from you, with your general standpoint on discipline.

 

But to answer your question, yes. And it's not a tough crowd. It's a poor look.

 

It would only be a 'poor look' to me if he'd done that with the game still in play. But to all intents and purposes, it was over. And the F up on the clock was suggesting that. 

 

I think it's being really pernickety to nark at him over that. 

 

This isn't directed at you, as I've no doubt you wouldn't, but if he'd ignored the fans, he'd then be getting slated for that. 

 

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. 

 

Hail 

[Cooleyfan1993]

So it’s a poor look that he assumed 0:00 on the game clock meant the game was, ya know, over? 😂😂😂 he saw 0:00, got excited, and a fan HANDS HIM his phone for a picture of the two of them (i doubt Haskins even takes a selfie if a fan hadn’t done that).

 

Yep, still silly that this is even a story 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

even Morgan Moses (his very own teammate) doesn’t think it’s a big issue 😂 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, Gibbs Hog Heaven said:

 

I think it's being really pernickety to nark at him over that. 

 

This isn't directed at you, as I've no doubt you wouldn't, but if he'd ignored the fans, he'd then be getting slated for that. 

 

Damned if you do. Damned if you don't. 

 

Hail 

 

Well, I disagree with it being nitpicky. In a vacuum, sure. But he doesn't live and nor has he operated in a vacuum. He has made some major maturity blunders that need to get cleaned up. Do I think his career is cooked? Absolutely not. But its an 85 degree angle going uphill. But he can fix it. And where I DO agree with you is he should be given some slack for the selfie thing given his excitement and emotion and what he's been through. 

 

I do not like his press conference. 

 

Had he not had those moments I'd be with you on selfie gate. 100%. 

 

I also completely agree some people would pick him apart for not taking the fan selfie. I think they're wrong. But it would have happened.

4 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

So it’s a poor look that he assumed 0:00 on the game clock meant the game was, ya know, over? 😂😂😂 he saw 0:00, got excited, and a fan HANDS HIM his phone for a picture of the two of them (i doubt Haskins even takes a selfie if a fan hadn’t done that).

 

Yep, still silly that this is even a story 🤷🏻‍♂️

 

even Morgan Moses (his very own teammate) doesn’t think it’s a big issue 😂 

 

I think you keep missing what most people that I've read post today have said. And it's like you're doing it on purpose.

 

The selfie thing is a drop in the bucket. The press conference is what made people turn on the selfie thing. *shrug*

 

To each their own with their beliefs. We're all entitled to 'em!

[Cooleyfan1993]

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I think you keep missing what most people that I've read post today have said. And it's like you're doing it on purpose.

 

The selfie thing is a drop in the bucket. The press conference is what made people turn on the selfie thing. *shrug*

 

To each their own with their beliefs. We're all entitled to 'em!

Nope, i just honestly think it’s silly to **** on the guy for this, when there are TONS of other things to **** on him for. Everything else he’s done, in my mind, deserve ALL the criticism. This? Not one single bit 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

[skinzplay]

If I'm the HC, he sits the next game. As a starting QB in this league, you need to lead and you need to be aware. He did neither with that selfie nonsense. It's complete immaturity. What a terrible, terrible display of look-at-me-ness. I get that the kid was excited for his first win, but it certainly wasn't because of the overthrown, lack-of-touch passes that sailed way too frequently, or were underthrown. He needs to learn that it's not all about him. I hope Callahan takes a strong stance on this. We've seen before an egotistical young QB who felt empowered because of his relationship with the owner, and we know how that turned out. Next coach could be in for quite a dynamic.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

2 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I think that gaffe was on Moreau getting a stinger and Simeon Thomas coming in for him that play. 

 

Maybe there was another one?  The one I was thinking of, is here.  If the timestamp doesn't work, it's at 5:29 in the video.

 

I think I see #53, #51, and #20 in the box.  #35 over the top with #23 as the only corner on the field.  4 down-lineman with Ryan Anderson and Ryan Kerrigan standing up on the LoS.

 

As the TE goes into motion on the right side, Dunbar gives a hand signal.  Nicholson sees the hand signal.  I don't know what the hand signal means, but I'm guessing it's a switch to man coverage.  It looks like both of our Edge's drop to shallow zones in the flat.  Dunbar takes the WR in man.  Nicholson takes the other TE, on the left side as he goes vertical to the end zone.  He seems to be the only one who could do that, so I don't think that coverage breakdown was Nicholson's fault.  Dion Hamilton seems to be in a run blitz.

 

That leaves the other TE, who caught the touchdown, as the responsibility of either Bostic #53 or Collins #20.  I'm going to guess that Bostic was the main culprit for the breakdown, but it also seems like neither Bostic nor Collins saw or heard the signal that Dunbar gave.  Not sure how it works, it's possible Dunbar/Nicholson need to communicate better with the linebackers when there's a coverage shift.  It's possible one of them should have realized they need to play the snap differently once a TE lines up close to where the WR is.

[KDawg]

4 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

Nope, i just honestly think it’s silly to **** on the guy for this, when there are TONS of other things to **** on him for. Everything else he’s done, in my mind, deserve ALL the criticism. This? Not one single bit 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

 

Boils down to personal taste, though, doesn't it? 

 

I'm not a fan of the way he carries himself. He's proven it time and time again. And that, in my opinion, is just as important as on-field ability when you're trying to be a franchise quarterback. Guys like Trent Dilfer didn't win because of how amazing they were on the field. They won because they were very well respected by their peers and people surrounding the organization for various reasons. That doesn't happen by mistake. Guys like Bridgewater don't step into the Saints starting role and win games because of his superior talent level... it's about how he carries himself. 

 

I live in a world where you earn respect and its not given. 

 

Dwayne can earn it. He is young and will make mistakes. That doesn't mean he can't be criticized for them. And while the selfie thing is kinda tame, the press conference was horrendous.

 

I didn't see the press conference until way later. After the game I really didn't even second guess the selfie issue... exact thoughts, "Well, Case being in there means Haskins didn't get there in time... not good but eh, let the kid celebrate a little..." - And then I heard the presser.

[Gibbs Hog Heaven]

3 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

If I'm the HC, he sits the next game. As a starting QB in this league, you need to lead and you need to be aware. He did neither with that selfie nonsense. It's complete immaturity. What a terrible, terrible display of look-at-me-ness. I get that the kid was excited for his first win, but it certainly wasn't because of the overthrown, lack-of-touch passes that sailed way too frequently, or were underthrown. He needs to learn that it's not all about him. I hope Callahan takes a strong stance on this. We've seen before an egotistical young QB who felt empowered because of his relationship with the owner, and we know how that turned out. Next coach could be in for quite a dynamic.

 

If you made a complete mountain out of a molehill over that, which this all is to me, and sat him, you'd risk losing him and members of the locker room who do support him. 

 

Like his bezzie McLaurin. 

 

That would be a very risky tightrope to walk. 

 

Hail. 

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

If I'm the HC, he sits the next game. 

 

I'd say this is a bit much. And I don't think it helps him in the future.

[skinzplay]

I definitely understand your reasoning on that @Gibbs Hog Heaven. I just think you nip that kind of behavior in the bud early by exacting some real discipline in response. I know how I would handle it, but then again, nobody has ever asked me to coach in the NFL (nor will they ever, that's for sure). Just eager to see how Callahan handles it. You can't just run off and start taking selfies when the game is not over. Neither Sims nor Moreau, and neither Dunbar were childish enough to go that route, and they arguably were the reasons the game was won. I want the kid to be successful. I don't follow college football as closely as I once did, so I can't say I was either for or against drafting him; or that I thought he would be a better pro prospect than the others who came out. I just don't like this look.

[Thinking Skins]

https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/doc-galdi/11-25-19-doc-and-galdi-joe-0MzC6wdU7SQ/

 

This is an interview with Doc Walker, Al Galdi and Joe Theisman. Joe talks about a lot of the Haskins stuff, but most notably from me he mentions rookie mistakes, like the touch on the deep balls, waiting too long for guys to get open, but really complimented his progressions. If I get a chance I'll transcribe some of what he said. 

 

 

EDIT: Ok here's a summary of a bunch of Joe's statements. 

- youthful enthusiasm
- celebrate victories with teammates first
- one of the greatest moment of QB is victory formation on 1
- showed his immaturity
- not that much. bill should handle it and Dwayne will say "yes sir"
- he knows he did something thats not right
- each week more comfortable in the pocket
- pass percentage wasn't good at all yesterday
- qb coaching tips
 - very obvious: typical college QB transitioning to the professional football
 - most of the time in college QBS wait to see a WR open then make the throw. 
 - not many college qbs can anticipate guys in route and give them the opportunity to run under it and run to it
 - throws the corner route flat and late because he's not anticipating. 
 - has seen improvement from the Giants game and the Minnesota game
 - communicating plays well
 - leaves huddle with confidence
 - mechanical issues are much easier fixed
 - gives KOC a lot of credit
 - giving him plays he can handle, instead of a full menu and each week he's expanding the playbook a bit more
 - the anticipation will come
 - any young QB should study Drew Brees. 
 - needs to work on touch. Doesn't have to throw a fastball all the time. 
 - thinks what he did at the end of the game was a sign of immaturity
 - guys will probably give him a hard time, but that's a good thing because when they bust you on something its a sign of acceptance and we're a family
 - the more he plays the more comfortable he gets
 - he likes things moving quicker
 - looked very comfortable those last two drives
 - knows when to flush
 - making plays when he has to with his legs, and quicker than people give him credit for
- for next week
 - build on what you've seen
 - get the ball out quicker on certain routes
 - relax when a guy is open
 - thinks he'll become more relaxed as we go forward
 - gameplan will expand
 - handles the movements well
 - looks comfortable under center
 - doesn't look bothered by any of that at all
 - a good performance 
 - a little late on the throw outside and a little bit behind the receiver
 - everybody throws the ball behind the receiver
 - misses people high 90% of his misses are high and thats a correctable fundamental part of throwing the football
 - kids never had the coaching to become what we want him to become
 - best thing that is happening is he gets to look at himself on film and tell me why you did this
 

[SkinFanInMinn]

3 minutes ago, skinzplay said:

I definitely understand your reasoning on that @Gibbs Hog Heaven. I just think you nip that kind of behavior in the bud early by exacting some real discipline in response. I know how I would handle it, but then again, nobody has ever asked me to coach in the NFL (nor will they ever, that's for sure). Just eager to see how Callahan handles it. You can't just run off and start taking selfies when the game is not over. Neither Sims nor Moreau, and neither Dunbar were childish enough to go that route, and they arguably were the reasons the game was won. I want the kid to be successful. I don't follow college football as closely as I once did, so I can't say I was either for or against drafting him; or that I thought he would be a better pro prospect than the others who came out. I just don't like this look.

I guess I'd also be on the one mulligan train.  Give the kid a little lee-way on his first win but definitely put the fear into him that he won't get away with it a second time.

[88Comrade2000]

1 hour ago, Wildbunny said:

What if Dan become enamored with one of those next QB like Tua and have a real option at drafting him?

 

Let the professionals decide that, not Snyder .

 

 

[88Comrade2000]

This wouldn’t happen on a professional football team.  

[daveakl]

1 hour ago, MartinC said:

His accuracy has to get a lot better if he's going to be a successful NFL QB - and I am in the school that thinks that accuracy is something that a QB largely has or hasn't by the time he gets to the NFL. 

So much of accuracy is built into how fast you are processing the game.  I've had games were the defense is flustering the crap out of me and I'm spraying throws all over the field, missing wide open targets, and not really seeing what is there.  I've had games where I could drop a ball into a 1x1 ft window past 3 defenders and hit my WR running full speed down the sideline.  The touch throws look "off" but he is 22 years old and has a cannon for an arm.  I think those will come and can be learned.  You can't "learn" to throw the ball harder.

 

Josh Allen went from 52% last year to 60% this year.  He has a strong arm like Haskins.

Newton was around 70% last year in a drop back offense before getting hurt after being a career high 50's guy.

 

I think Haskins growth will largely depend on everything around him.  

[Veryoldschool]

2 hours ago, Probos said:

 

You're right, not the "end of the world", but, the taking a selfie with a fan before the game was actually over is,...more than just a bad look.  I keep hearing how this kid wants to be seen and respected as a leader on the team.  First off, he can't manufacture this perception of himself as a "leader", it comes with time and experience.  It's your actions, how you perform and execute on and off the field that gain the respect of your teammates.  That includes every play,..even the simplest of them all -- the victory formation kneel down.  The QB has to have the ultimate situational awareness and professionalism.  He deserves to be grilled for it by the coaches and the fans.  Fooking ridiculous man,.....I woulda been livid if I was the HC.  Ha,..he said he's "closer" -- yeah,...I don't see it. 

 

I agree he seems to have a long way to go to prove he can fulfill his role and the early returns are not encouraging.  It might be a good thing our expectations for the team are so low now.  Some of us will be happy if we just see him start to make progress towards competence this year, the bar set as low as can be this year.

[Master Blaster]

HOW IS A ROOKIE WHO STARTED ONE YEAR IN COLLEGE NOT ALREADY ACTING AND PERFORMING LIKE BRADY/RODGERS ON HIS 3RD CAREER START!!!!!!
 

Ok boomer

[Catatonic]

Just watched the post game presser.  He makes it really hard to like him.  His response to any question that was not praising him was at best dismissive and juvenile, but IMHO they were outright disrespectful and petulant.  Not a good look from your rookie QB who has a long way to go in his development.  I can't help but think that this situation is going to go down in a flaming heap.   

[MartinC]

20 minutes ago, daveakl said:

So much of accuracy is built into how fast you are processing the game.  I've had games were the defense is flustering the crap out of me and I'm spraying throws all over the field, missing wide open targets, and not really seeing what is there.  I've had games where I could drop a ball into a 1x1 ft window past 3 defenders and hit my WR running full speed down the sideline.  The touch throws look "off" but he is 22 years old and has a cannon for an arm.  I think those will come and can be learned.  You can't "learn" to throw the ball harder.

 

Josh Allen went from 52% last year to 60% this year.  He has a strong arm like Haskins.

Newton was around 70% last year in a drop back offense before getting hurt after being a career high 50's guy.

 

I think Haskins growth will largely depend on everything around him.  

 

I'm hoping as well his accuracy gets better as the game slows down for him and he's not thinking about what he's doing as much.

 

But I do think he has mechanical issues which are part of the problem and may or may not be able to be fixed. His low elbow is why he misses high a lot for example.

[daveakl]

8 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

I'm hoping as well his accuracy gets better as the game slows down for him and he's not thinking about what he's doing as much.

 

But I do think he has mechanical issues which are part of the problem and may or may not be able to be fixed. His low elbow is why he misses high a lot for example.

 

This is a fun read if you are into a breakdown of him Pre combine.

 

https://medium.com/@thetim_dix/video-analysis-dwayne-haskins-arm-strength-release-time-and-decision-making-measured-14eb82d6ff6e