NickyJ Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 11 minutes ago, heyholetsgogrant said: What is there to talk about when your team goes 3-13??? The pronunciation of "crayon". Most people pronounce it as "cray-on", but there is a horrible, heathenish cult of people who pronounce it as "cranberry". I'm not even making this up, it's true. I've spoken to people across the U.S. and it seems like a Great Lakes thing. Kirk Cousins played ball in Michigan, I bet he pronounces it as cran too. I have many openly irrational reasons for enjoying seeing him flounder, but how he pronounces crayon is a very rational reason to hate him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 No one says that. Shut your *filthy lying mouth *Knows literally nothing about his mouth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Before last year, I thought they didn't either. But they do. It's like how people pronounce Nevada vs. Nevahda. Once you hear it, your ears will bleed. Here's a third rate website even talking about it: https://www.simplemost.com/theres-a-chance-you-are-saying-crayon-the-wrong-way/ It's a few limited cases, but they must be stamped out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 Why is one section white? What dont they have colored wax there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redd Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 43 minutes ago, heyholetsgogrant said: What is there to talk about when your team goes 3-13??? 1.The Draft 2. New Coaching Staff 3. Switch from 3-4 Players actually here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted January 16, 2020 Share Posted January 16, 2020 29 minutes ago, Xameil said: Why is one section white? What dont they have colored wax there? That's racist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 17 hours ago, KDawg said: You and I see so far apart on quarterbacks it's difficult to even begin to speak about. But no, they didn't win despite of him. He was what they needed to win. Again, people miss this in QB evaluations. A QB with the ability to inspire his teammates is invaluable. That's exactly what Dilfer did. The Ravens knew he would be prepared and do his best. Grbac, a "better" QB, did not. But people keep writing off this aspect of quarterback play in favor of arm strength and statistics in the Big 10 and Pac 12 in these evaluations. It's frustrating to see over and over again. It makes plenty of sense. Trent Dilfer is still the only QB in NFL history to be released after winning the Super Bowl as the starter. Why on Earth would he be released if he was "just what they needed to win"? He was then available to every team as their potential starter yet settled on the job of backup as that's all he was worth. Seeing as Ozzie Newsome, who was regarded as the top personal guy in the league at the time, as well as every other person who is paid to evaluate talent agreed with my position I think I'm good here. The Dilfer led offense failed to score a TD for an entire month, that'salso part of the QB evaluation process as well. They won with a record setting defense, they won despite Trent Dilfer just as the Redskins won despite Alex Smith and his check down offense that failed to make enough plays. People defending Trent Dilfer's play in Baltimore. LOL, just when I thought I'd read it all here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Trent Dilfer is still the only QB in NFL history to be released after winning the Super Bowl as the starter. Why on Earth would he be released if he was "just what they needed to win"? He was then availalble to every team as their potential starter to every team in the league yet settled on the job of backup for anyone yet signed as a backup. Seeing as Ozzie Newsome, who was regarded as the top personal guy in the league at the time, as well as every other person who is paid to evaluate talent agreed with my position I think I'm good here. People defending Trent Dilfer's play in Baltimore. LOL, just when i thought I'd read it all here. Yeah, and they sure did upgrade, huh? NFL teams, besides the Redskins, make mistakes. People thinking arm strength is the end all be all in quarterbacks... LOL! What a time to be alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 minutes ago, KDawg said: Yeah, and they sure did upgrade, huh? NFL teams, besides the Redskins, make mistakes. People thinking arm strength is the end all be all in quarterbacks... LOL! What a time to be alive. Damn man you are up early too, didn't expect this response so quickly. Look I'm not spending this morning arguing Trent Dilfer. If you can't see that he sucked, and everything in his resume before, during, and after Baltimore clearly shows it, there's no use continuing. Have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinsFTW Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Yet, that Ravens team won 1 SB with Dilfer and 0 without him. Kinda funny. Almost supports Allen's moronic idea of bringing in Smith except for the fact that our defense was the antithesis to the 2000 Ravens defense. Oh, and we had 0 2000 yard RBs either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Damn man you are up early too, didn't expect this response so quickly. Look I'm not spending this morning arguing Trent Dilfer. If you can't see that he sucked, and everything in his resume before, during, and after Baltimore clearly shows it, there's no use continuing. Have a good day. Okay, so let's have this conversation: What makes a QB good? What makes a QB suck? If your definition is statistics and talent, ya. You're right. Dilfer "sucked". If you want to argue Dilfer, for his career, wasn't a great quarterback... I'm with you. But let's look deeper. With the 2000 Ravens, a lot of people don't remember this, but Tony Banks was their starter in the beginning of the season. And you could argue, statistically, he was just as good as Dilfer (or not so good). Bank was 5-3 with a 54.7% completion rate, 1578 yards, 8 TD, 8 INT. Dilfer was 7-1 with a 59.3% completion rate, 1502 yards, 12 TD, 11 INT. Anyone who looks at Dilfer from a statistical standpoint and says, "man, he stunk" - I can't disagree with that take. He was not good statistically. And in that light, you can't blame the Ravens for looking at Trent Dilfer at the QB position and saying, "Jesus, our defense just won the Super Bowl for us with him at QB. Imagine what we could do with someone better than him?" And, to be clear, no one could blame them for that. He was pedestrian statistically at best. So the Ravens went and signed Elvis Grbac. 8-6, 56.7% completion rate, 3033 yards, 15 TD, 18 INT. Statistically, horrendous. You could say it was similar to Dilfer to be honest. Yet, they didn't win the Super Bowl. Why? Partially because of who they played. Partially because of a lack of Jamal Lewis. There's plenty of factors. Ironically, in 1999, with a similar defense to the 2000 team, Tony Banks, statistically, was very good. 17 TD, 8 INT. He took a lot of sacks though, and only a 52.8% completion rate. 6th ranked defense. 8-8. I'm not sitting here, which I think you have the belief, that Trent Dilfer was a good quarterback in a general sense. He wasn't. He wasn't a guy you jump up and down on the table for. But what I am arguing is that he was the right piece at the right time for the 2000 Baltimore Ravens. Similar to Keenum with the Vikings in 2017. Similar to Hasselbeck with the Seahawks. Similar to Peyton Manning with that Broncos Super Bowl Championship team (except, you know, Peyton Manning). Dilfer was also a free agent following that season. And because Newsome is a smart cap guy, he knew that Dilfer's value plummeted with the Super Bowl win. He wanted more money. Though, he went and signed Elvis Grbac for a 5 year, $30M deal... Which kind of goes against the "cap money label" I just gave him. In 2000, he made $450,000 base with a $550,000 signing bonus on a one year deal. He then signed a two year deal with Seattle worth nearly 6 times that. Which doesn't kill your cap as the numbers are still low, but its enough to give pause in signing a guy who probably wanted a bit more (conjecture) to stay with the Ravens after winning a title. His value, to his agents and likely to himself, sky rocketed despite the numbers. So why was Dilfer able to go 11-1 as the Ravens quarterback in the year 2000 and Elvis Grbac, a physically more talented quarterback, wasn't able to find his footing as the guy with roughly the same D? Well, Grbac didn't have Lewis. But Blake/Redman did the next season. They finished 7-9. Boller went 10-6 his rookie year. But they didn't win a title. So, why did Dilfer win? Well, obviously, the defense. And the two-headed monster of Lewis/Holmes in the backfield. But despite his numbers, the team liked and respected Dilfer. Second, he was perfect for a team with an electric special teams (Jermaine Lewis) and a ridiculous defense. He managed the game. He was an extremely smart quarterback. He made mistakes, but limited them in the biggest moments. Dilfer just knew how to do his job to win. And he did that. And that's where I think a lot of people miss on the quarterback stuff. And why quarterback's are so complicated. You see guys like JaMarcus Russell, Akili Smith, Heath Shuler and you see their talent levels. You see guys who are superior physically to many others. And you think how much better they could be than a game manager type. You fall in love with the measurable stuff. But what you can't measure is that spark. That ability to lead men. The belief that a guy was going to go out there and do his job for the good of the team. That he would be prepared. Manning is Manning, but that season with the Broncos he was plain old bad. 2249 yards, 7-2 record, 9 TD, 17 INT. Yet, he helped them get a Lombardi. Why? Not because of his ability at that point. But because of the non-measurable items he brought to the table. They had Peyton Manning on their side. To be clear, Dilfer isn't and never will be Manning. And that's why Manning made so much that season compared to Dilfer (well, inflation, too, but even in the modern era Dilfer wasn't worth a fraction of Manning). But the point I'm making is sometimes you don't need the flashiest toy to win. Sometimes you just need the guy who the team believes in to get the job done. Dilfer didn't need the spotlight. And nor should he have gotten it. He did his job. And there's something to be said for that. 11-1 and a Vince Lombardi trophy. And this is why I liked Alex Smith as this team's quarterback. And he was doing things I didn't think possible record wise until he was injured. Cousins is physically a better QB. But Smith closed when he had to and didn't make costly mistakes. The error with Smith was the contract. And we're still paying for that. And this is why Dwayne Haskins worries me. I'm not sure he's a leader of men. I'm also not sure he isn't. He deserves a chance to show it to the new regime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goskins10 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 51 minutes ago, KDawg said: Okay, so let's have this conversation: What makes a QB good? What makes a QB suck? If your definition is statistics and talent, ya. You're right. Dilfer "sucked". If you want to argue Dilfer, for his career, wasn't a great quarterback... I'm with you. Edit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Intangibles and football isn't played on paper. Easy example, everyone played harder with Ray Lewis around because they knew he could kill you and get away with it. Ok that was (kind of) a joke but the point remains, some guys are leaders and football is a sport where leadership and emotion does make a difference. A more realistic example is that KC comeback a few weeks ago. Yea they hard the horses to do it, but they also didn't let themselves get down mentally. Its a thing, its valuable, and it doesn't show up in stats. The coach up there can explain it to you better but basically this is what im getting from him. And actually, the stats back it up which is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Trent Dilfwr was not a good QB and the Ravens did not make a mistake any more than the Redskins, who ultimately moved on from Ryp, just as there Bears moved on from Grossman. Neither of those teams have returned to the Super Bowl either, that does not mean they were wrong for dismissing QBs who were not playing at the level they needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 Just now, Darrell Green Fan said: Trent Dilfwr was not a good QB and the Ravens did not make a mistake any more than the Redskins, who ultimately moved on from Ryp, just as there Bears moved on from Grossman. Neither of those teams have returned to the Super Bowl either, that does not mean they were wrong for dismissing QBs who were not playing at the level they needed. I'm not sure you actual read posts... I'm starting to think you just say the same things over and over to troll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 This is pretty funny at least to me. I am not among the Kirk haters. But I think some of this is true. 😀 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 3 hours ago, SkinsFTW said: Almost supports Allen's moronic idea of bringing in Smith except for the fact that our defense was the antithesis to the 2000 Ravens defense. Andy Reid gave a similar contract in regards to % of cap to less proven Smith in 2013 (roughly 11 to 8% throughout) and as we know led the Reid offense for 5 years. Not arguing Smith as player here (willing to at any moment ) but challenging the extreme of it being moronic. I mention Reid, due to him being revered as QB whisperer. I can understand an argument if Reid dumped him after a 1 or 2 seasons, but obviously Reid identified value with Smith over 5 years. Once again, arguing it being moronic, not if Alex is a Super Bowl QB, because the majority aren’t, but a playoff QB he is 100%. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Darrell Green Fan said: Trent Dilfwr was not a good QB and the Ravens did not make a mistake any more than the Redskins, who ultimately moved on from Ryp, just as there Bears moved on from Grossman. Neither of those teams have returned to the Super Bowl either, that does not mean they were wrong for dismissing QBs who were not playing at the level they needed. You know what, instead of just the snarky reply, I'll actually respond to this. Ignoring the "Dilfer sucks" take. Which is lame... "The Ravens did not make a mistake" - Your take is that signing Grbac, to a 5-year, $30M contract and then getting rid of him one year in wouldn't be considered a mistake? Even to Newsome? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 3 hours ago, KDawg said: I'm not sure you actual read posts... I'm starting to think you just say the same things over and over to troll. If your question is did I actually read a 32 paragraph post the anawer would be no but I got the jest. Life is too short to study 32 paragraph post when I honestly don't think you can make a more condensed version that would convince me that any team would be correct to re-sign a bad QB when they won despite his terrible play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 2 hours ago, KDawg said: You know what, instead of just the snarky reply, I'll actually respond to this. Ignoring the "Dilfer sucks" take. Which is lame... "The Ravens did not make a mistake" - Your take is that signing Grbac, to a 5-year, $30M contract and then getting rid of him one year in wouldn't be considered a mistake? Even to Newsome? I never said Grbac was not a mistake, and sorry but I did not think my reply was snarky. I just get so tired of Dilfer being propped up as the example of how you can win with a crappy QB. It's just as weak as using Tom Brady as the example when everyone knows for every Brady there are 500 late round QBs who didn't pan out. And Dilfer and the ring is no different, for each Trent Dilfer there are dozens of SB winning QBs named Staubach and Rothlisberger. Winning it all with a crappy QB is the hard road to take. The Ravens knew it, so did the Vikes when they cut Keenan loose. Hell every team knows it which is why they always reach on draft day in search of the all important Franchise QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 And then the grass isn’t greener. You’re proving my point for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 10 minutes ago, KDawg said: And then the grass isn’t greener. You’re proving my point for me. There are too many letters in this post. I cant be bothered to read it all...so I'm just gonna post something because obviously I know what you're talking about... So... Liar liar pants on fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 3 hours ago, KDawg said: And then the grass isn’t greener. You’re proving my point for me. You are making a very simple situation more complex than necessary. The bottom line is the Ravens decided to not sign a terrible player at the most important position in all of sports. It's crazy to be critical of that decisions regardless of what happened the following seasons. I honestly can't believe I am getting such pushback on an opinion that is so obvious. All the issues you cited for the Ravens after that title would have still been there had they signed Dilfer only they would have been worse had they gone with the inferior QB. Again Dilfer went an entire month without an offensive TD with all the advantages you described. He had J Lewis, he had the best defense of all time setting him up with constant 3 and outs and short fields. And he still couldn't get it done offensively. They won despite Trent Dilfer and there was nothing wrong with their decision to go in another direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted January 17, 2020 Share Posted January 17, 2020 On 1/16/2020 at 6:59 AM, volsmet said: Watson fell due to injury concerns... Tua could fall into the teens I suppose, this draft is loaded. I thought Watson fell mostly because the offense he ran at Clemson was so simple that he wouldn't have had the smarts to understand a more complex scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyKillerz Posted January 18, 2020 Share Posted January 18, 2020 How nuch Is TeddyB making this year? If I was a Vikes fan id be salty AF we overpaid Kirk and let Teddy walk.. There were options that didnt require giving up the farm for good ol kurt. This thread has kind of run its course... What would you give up for Diggs on the other side of McScorchin??? I think itd be fun, but we definitely could use a TE like Rudolph more IMO. TE is a BIG need esp for a young qb. All the top teams have ELITE TEs and I think itd progress the O further to have one over another stud at WR. Man Kirky is stacked with talent over there... As for the thread title? Still no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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