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Serious Question: Do you regret letting Cousins go?


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2 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

A  better two year stretch than our Snyderskins have ever managed.

 

For sure. And a winning record is a winning record. I wonder what they do to get better next season. And how they are gonna pay him. I would love to see him take a deal and prove the haters wrong. 

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17 hours ago, hatchetwound said:

No doubt he actually got it done under pressure in OT for the first time ever.  He gets credit for that.

 

But he has a TON of talent around him.  A TON.   And whats the best he can muster in those 4 quarters leading up to OT?  16/27, 179 yards (84 of those are Yards After the Catch (or YAC)) and 0 TDs.  No INT's but he twice hit  a defender right in the numbers.

 

He's the definition of choke

 

You don't think his O line has anything to do with his performance against the Niners?  The Vikings stacked up well against the Saint's, across the board, the only main difference being that they were able to run the ball which set up the passing game for Cousin's.  Bree's could not get that going. 

 

 What I am wiling to concede after thinking about this and watching mobile QB's like Mahomes, or like a Burrow last night for LSU is that they have the capacity to both throw the ball accurately and evade breakdowns in PI because of their mobility.  Kirk's style of play may have worked best in the 1990s, but not maybe not today.  So the only way that Cousins succeeds IMO in the league is if the team he plays for fortifies the O line.  Not a finesse sort of O line that he has now, which works well in the run game, but some stout, stronger, athletic guys that can stack up against a strong D line. 

 

Again week 12 Packer's vs. Niners was a carbon copy game, they looked just like the Vikings against the Niners Saturday.  Rodgers was fumbling, bumbling and only able to get 8 points on the board. I blame his line for that game.  In some games an O line can measure up or match, but other times they are overmatched.  You have to be quick enough at the QB position to evade the type of rush the Niners can bring.  They have four very strong, very young guys they picked up in the first round. 

 

All the successful QB's today have the capacity when the pocket breaks down with average O line play or overmatching to scramble, evade the rush to extend the play.  

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13 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

 What I am wiling to concede after thinking about this and watching mobile QB's like Mahomes, or like a Burrow last night for LSU is that they have the capacity to both throw the ball accurately and evade breakdowns in PI because of their mobility.  Kirk's style of play may have worked best in the 1990s, but not maybe not today.  So the only way that Cousins succeeds IMO in the league is if the team he plays for fortifies the O line.  Not a finesse sort of O line that he has now, which works well in the run game, but some stout, stronger, athletic guys that can stack up against a strong D line. 

 

All the successful QB's today have the capacity when the pocket breaks down with average O line play or overmatching to scramble, evade the rush to extend the play.  


This represents 90% of my issues with Kirk as QB when here and now watching from afar. If the game plan, script and talent matchup well Kirk won’t have an issue— there’s absolute value in this though.  

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4 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

But it wasn't a single mistake. It's as if you didn't even hear Gruden describe Griffin.  Gruden made it clear that it was a pattern, that the QB play was "not even close" as he described other issues like taking a 3 step drops when the play called for a 5 step drop. 

 

This excuse making for RGIII while Kirk gets criticized for how he reacted to a report that he drives his grandma's van is exactly what I've been talking about.   The hate for Kirk Cousins is over the top here and lets' be honest, if he had not thrown that pick against the Giants it would not be like this.   

 

Okay

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For those suggesting the OL was the big problem for the Vikes @ SF. 

 

Lifted right from a Vikes message board (their anguish sustains me), here we have a good argument to the contrary. Well maybe not contrary. No one is saying their Oline is good. Just that the QB (who yall tell me is supposed to make the oline better with quick reads and releases) had chances and didnt take them, missed, or otherwise sucked. Its a team game, as they say. 

 

edit - the formatting on that other site is trash compared to ES. It may take me a second to make it readable so hold tight. 

 

Sage Rosenfels broke down 8 plays on offense that were missed opportunities. I see good pass protection and open WRs. I’m not going to pretend the OL was good but I’m also not going to pretend Cousins wasn’t very much part of the problem Sunday.
Diggs is open, Cousins doesn’t see him:

https://twitter.com/sagerosenfels18/sta ... 53250?s=21
Deep cross open:
https://twitter.com/sagerosenfels18/sta ... 58725?s=21
Miss on an easy out route:
https://twitter.com/sagerosenfels18/sta ... 94086?s=21
Another deep cross open WR but he checks down:
https://twitter.com/sagerosenfels18/sta ... 73441?s=21
Under route:
https://twitter.com/sagerosenfels18/sta ... 51137?s=21

Edited by Llevron
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2 minutes ago, Llevron said:

For those suggesting the OL was the big problem for the Vikes @ SF. 

Listen go watch the week 12 of the Packers vs. Niners.   What they did to Rodgers O line and then to him is identical.  Packers O line could not contain the rush.  The Packers could not run.  Rodgers could not throw. A strip sack.  Multiple other sacks. Held them scoreless the whole first half.   The Packers scored 8 points the whole game.   

 

 The Vikings fans are all over the place with whose to blame like most fans.  My position is that Rodgers is a better QB then Cousins.  But the same thing happened to him 

 

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7 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Listen go watch the week 12 of the Packers vs. Niners.   What they did to Rodgers O line and then to him is identical.  Packers O line could not contain the rush.  The Packers could not run.  Rodgers could not throw. A strip sack.  Multiple other sacks. Held them scoreless the whole first half.   The Packers scored 8 points the whole game.   

 

 The Vikings fans are all over the place with whose to blame like most fans.  My position is that Rodgers is a better QB then Cousins.  But the same thing happened to him 

 

 

I understand your position and I don't want you to think i'm discounting it. I'm not. It has merit for sure. I'm just giving you the option to look at the other evidence that suggests the online was not the only issue in Cousins play. There are 8 plays above that show that he not only had a clean pocket to step into, he had open guys and the right play was called and he check down. This is exactly what his coach said after the game - they dialed it up and he didnt do anything with it. 

 

We dont have to agree and thats fine. You posted your opinion and what evidence you had to support it. Im just doing the same with mine. Im not suggesting you are wrong at all. 

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3 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

Again week 12 Packer's vs. Niners was a carbon copy game, they looked just like the Vikings against the Niners Saturday.  Rodgers was fumbling, bumbling and only able to get 8 points on the board. I blame his line for that game.  In some games an O line can measure up or match, but other times they are overmatched.  You have to be quick enough at the QB position to evade the type of rush the Niners can bring.  They have four very strong, very young guys they picked up in the first round. 

 

All the successful QB's today have the capacity when the pocket breaks down with average O line play or overmatching to scramble, evade the rush to extend the play.  


Kirk can get what the play is designed to get if the conditions are ideal. 

33 minutes ago, Llevron said:

For those suggesting the OL was the big problem for the Vikes @ SF. 

 

Lifted right from a Vikes message board (their anguish sustains me), here we have a good argument to the contrary. Well maybe not contrary. No one is saying their Oline is good. Just that the QB (who yall tell me is supposed to make the oline better with quick reads and releases) had chances and didnt take them, missed, or otherwise sucked. Its a team game, as they say. 

 

edit - the formatting on that other site is trash compared to ES. It may take me a second to make it readable so hold tight. 

 

Sage Rosenfels broke down 8 plays on offense that were missed opportunities. I see good pass protection and open WRs. I’m not going to pretend the OL was good but I’m also not going to pretend Cousins wasn’t very much part of the problem Sunday.
Diggs is open, Cousins doesn’t see him:

https://twitter.com/sagerosenfels18/sta ... 53250?s=21
Deep cross open:
https://twitter.com/sagerosenfels18/sta ... 58725?s=21
Miss on an easy out route:
https://twitter.com/sagerosenfels18/sta ... 94086?s=21
Another deep cross open WR but he checks down:
https://twitter.com/sagerosenfels18/sta ... 73441?s=21
Under route:
https://twitter.com/sagerosenfels18/sta ... 51137?s=21


Brutal.

 

6 hours ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I was simply explaining that unlike the Kirk haters who are simply making up reasons to hate him I was not an RGIII hater so my opinion was not biased with regard to his behavior.  i though that part was pretty clear.  


Hate is an emotion, making something up is a rational process.

 

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7 minutes ago, zskins said:

Does anyone have any regrets to Bruce being gone? No. Okay then. This means Kirk has done his job. We can close this thread and just move on. 

 

By the way, there is already a thread on Kirk in the ATN. 


I enjoy this thread in that it allows some discussion on philosophy/beliefs with regard to the QB position. Kirks history here is irrelevant to that conversation, he’s just a biped — how each person values the objective abilities of the bipeds is interesting. 

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5 hours ago, Llevron said:

 

I dont think you are dumb. And even if I did there a rules against me calling you that. Im allowed to attack your opinion (Griffin deserves fault, while Kirk does not). Im allowed to Attack your logic (I was a RG3 stan and I learned from that. I am now unbiased because I have moved on from my stanhood into perfect balance). And im allowed to attack the conversation (ANYTHING about RG3 v Cousins in 2020 in order to defend Cousins for some stupid ****ing reason). I dont think you are dumb. But I think your opinion, logic, and posts are. And I got tired of tiptoeing around it. I was hoping saying so flat out would end the conversation. I even said in the last post feel free to NOT talk to me, but here we are. Im not gonna respond after this. Feel free to yell into the heavens. I just want to be clear, im not calling you dumb. And your petty little rant about my inability to understand your super smart nuance will not change that. 

 

Yeah I'm about out of steam on this too. I apologize for my tone, as I said i went back to soften it but it was too late.

 

I'll just close by saying I don't think I made dumb arguments at all . RGIII's behavior was far worse yet he does not get nearly the hate.  Your claim that all he did was play hard and get hurt is simply not true.   He went crying to the owner, demanded plays be removed from the playbook, failed to work hard to learn the position and threw teammates under the bus by never taking the blame for his shortcomings.  The arguments I heard against Kirk included his reaction to a story about driving his mom's van (seriously? What does that even mean?), he was "greedy" when every professional athlete is greedy (as they should be), he was not loyal when there is no loyalty in professional football, and that he thought he was worth more than he was which is simply not true, the Vikes and Jets' offers proved Kirk was spot on with regard to his market value. 

 

Those 2 lists of behavior are not even close yet I''m the one accused of making dumb arguments, I'll never understand that.  

 

Peace. 

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6 minutes ago, volsmet said:


I enjoy this thread in that it allows some discussion on philosophy/beliefs with regard to the QB position. Kirks history here is irrelevant to that conversation, he’s just a biped — how each person values the objective abilities of the bipeds is interesting. 

 

In that case the OP needs to change the title of thread to: Cult of Kurt! lol

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9 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

I'll just close by saying I don't think I made dumb arguments at all . RGIII's behavior was far worse yet he does not get nearly the hate.  Your claim that all he did was play hard and get hurt is simply not true.   He went crying to the owner, demanded plays be removed from the playbook, failed to work hard to learn the position and threw teammates under the bus by never taking the blame for his shortcomings.  The arguments I heard against Kirk included his reaction to a story about driving his mom's van (seriously? What does that even mean?), he was "greedy" when every professional athlete is greedy (as they should be), he was not loyal when there is no loyalty in professional football, and that he thought he was worth more than he was which is simply not true, the Vikes and Jets' offers proved Kirk was spot on with regard to his market value. 

 

Those 2 lists of behavior are not even close yet I''m the one accused of making dumb arguments, I'll never understand that.  

 

Peace. 

Boy..I sure got under your skin..😋

 

AND to close too... RG3 paid dearly for his transgressions...Out of football...failed at Browns..out of football..backup in Ravens..EARNING diddly squat. I was VERY hard on RG3. *I* think he paid the price.

 

KC is still sucking millions at a CAP and producing NOTHING. Again, Keenam has a better Playoff record.

 

I just don't like grifters. So..lets take it to ATN as Cousins is NOT a Redskin. TG

Edited by The Hangman- C_Hanburger
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7 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Wonder if the Vikings extend him this off-season. I imagine Kirk will not attempt to leverage his situation again and just take a deal that requires him to work with the Vikings. 

 

You really think he'll be that humble? Everything with him is "If not for this, if not for that."

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11 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Wonder if the Vikings extend him this off-season. I imagine Kirk will not attempt to leverage his situation again and just take a deal that requires him to work with the Vikings. 

Since he is on another team, can the Vikings tag him next year?

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13 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Wonder if the Vikings extend him this off-season. I imagine Kirk will not attempt to leverage his situation again and just take a deal that requires him to work with the Vikings. 

I hope they franchise him simply because they don't know if he's the long-term answer.

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Does he have a no trade clause? I wonder...Vikes "could" trade him and some picks to move up and pick a QB in this quality QB draft. Vikes are in CAP hell. Talking 8-8 in the forums. Cousins could have a suitor (ex) Dallas with Dak asking 35Mil - Brady in NE what happens with him. I could see a trade and picks VS another 3 years of Kirk-ness value.

 

That Green Bay game did the same thing The Giant Game did you us but reverse. Gave *some* hope/plausibility that Kirk can win big consistently. (fools gold..eject..eject..eject)

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2 minutes ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Does he have a no trade clause? I wonder...Vikes "could" trade him and some picks to move up and pick a QB in this quality QB draft. Vikes are in CAP hell. Talking 8-8 in the forums. Cousins could have a suitor (ex) Dallas with Dak asking 35Mil - Brady in NE what happens with him. I could see a trade and picks VS another 3 years of Kirk-ness value.

 

That Green Bay game did the same thing The Giant Game did you us but reverse. Gave *some* hope/plausibility that Kirk can win big consistently. (fools gold..eject..eject..eject)

I honestly don't see him having much trade value. An underwhelming end to the season and so far has still done nothing to show he's capable of leading a team in clutch moments. Only one year left making 31 million against the cap and no signs of re-signing with whomever. He had a solid surrounding cast in Minny (with the exception of a poor OL) and still came up small. Minny is better off drafting someone this year and letting him sit on the bench ala what KC did with Mahomes.

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I'm late to this thread and won't pretend that I really know anything about football, but I don't regret letting Kirk go because it was totally out of our control.  This was the front office mishandling his situation. 

Despite his faults, Kirk is still arguably the best QB we've had here in a long time and he's better than most QBs in the league.  That said, IMO, he's missing that *it* factor where a QB can take control of a game and elevate the play of his team.  He's simply as good as what's around him.  He's one of those guys that is good when everything goes according to plan, but struggles to go "off-script" when a play starts to break down.  He'll occasionally give you some heroics, but no one should hold their breath. 

I would definitely not be sorry if he were still our QB.  Face it, there's worse problems to have...  (and we've had/have them!)

 





 

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29 minutes ago, Khun Kao said:

Despite his faults, Kirk is still arguably the best QB we've had here in a long time and he's better than most QBs in the league.  That said, IMO, he's missing that *it* factor where a QB can take control of a game and elevate the play of his team.  He's simply as good as what's around him.  He's one of those guys that is good when everything goes according to plan, but struggles to go "off-script" when a play starts to break down.  He'll occasionally give you some heroics, but no one should hold their breath. 

That's him in a nutshell.

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50 minutes ago, Khun Kao said:

I'm late to this thread and won't pretend that I really know anything about football, but I don't regret letting Kirk go because it was totally out of our control.  This was the front office mishandling his situation. 

Despite his faults, Kirk is still arguably the best QB we've had here in a long time and he's better than most QBs in the league.  That said, IMO, he's missing that *it* factor where a QB can take control of a game and elevate the play of his team.  He's simply as good as what's around him.  He's one of those guys that is good when everything goes according to plan, but struggles to go "off-script" when a play starts to break down.  He'll occasionally give you some heroics, but no one should hold their breath. 

I would definitely not be sorry if he were still our QB.  Face it, there's worse problems to have...  (and we've had/have them!)
 

 

I nominate this for best post of the thread!  This is spot on from start to finish!!  Well done!! 

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