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Serious Question: Do you regret letting Cousins go?


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3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

Teams understand the value of a good QB, they reach every draft to try to find that magic pill.  I would be shocked if Tua is not a top 5 pick.  Every mock draft i saw has him going there, one had the Redskins taking him at 2 LOL.  


Im not sure why that’s so funny...

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Didn't most mocks have Haskins going in the top 5 or 6 though? **** happens. These guys outsmart themselves all the time. 

 

I dont think the Vikes take him though. They need to address Oline regardless of what they do. And its seems to me contractually speaking they really have no choice but to re-up with Cousins and ride or die with him. Which again isnt the worst position to be in. You atleast have a chance if you give him some good pieces to work with. I might even consider letting some defensive FAs slip in order to sure up his line *if thats even possible.

 

 

 

*Again, no ****ing clue  

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8 minutes ago, KDawg said:


Im not sure why that’s so funny...

I think I am just coming to terms with the fact that mobile, accurate QB's that can extend plays when their PP breaks down are incredibly important in today's league.   i can tell you that right now a number of Viking fans are literally suggesting the packaging of Dalvin Cook, with a couple of picks, to the Lion's for the third pick in the draft to get Tua.  So yeah it is not funny because the guy is amazingly talented.

 

But @Llevron your right about the fact that the Vikings need to address their Oline no matter what.  But I don't know if the talent is there in the draft or in FA to be honest.  But hey I bet they would take Williams, and he would happily go there because he likes Cousins,  although I admit I want the Skins to keep Williams.  Obviously I am not as negative about Cousin's as many and I still do not think the story on him is completely written and honestly I would like to see the Vikings bring in an O coordinator that is more aggressive and challenges Cousin more to go downfield.  

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7 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

I think I am just coming to terms with the fact that mobile, accurate QB's that can extend plays when their PP breaks down are incredibly important in today's league.   i can tell you that right now a number of Viking fans are literally suggesting the packaging of Dalvin Cook, with a couple of picks, to the Lion's for the third pick in the draft to get Tua.  So yeah it is not funny because the guy is amazingly talented.

 

Can you imagine if Tua is drafted by them, and they dont address the line? AND they get rid of cook who is basically the offense? Not only are they done but when the eventual injury happens, they are all fired. Fans included. They are fired too. And Ragnarok or whatever his name is. 

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On the Vikings board the fans are talking about trading Diggs and their 1st round pick and next year's 1st round pick to move up to grab Burrow. 

 

They don't believe Kirk is the answer and would trade him if Cousins didn't have a no trade clause.

 

They sound like us over the years.  It's amusing really.

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15 hours ago, The Hangman- C_Hanburger said:

Like I said CAP HELL. The Vikes screwed the pooch on KC. It will go down as one of the stupidest moves ever at that price. 

 

Really?  Our team has made about five stupider moves at QB just in the last decade.

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3 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Really?  Our team has made about five stupider moves at QB just in the last decade.

Except our stupid QB moves came when we were a bottom feeder and were trying to get somewhere. There stupid move came when they reached the Championship game, one step away from the Superbowl, and caused their team to regress... or if I'm being kinder stall.

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6 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Except our stupid QB moves came when we were a bottom feeder and were trying to get somewhere. There stupid move came when they reached the Championship game, one step away from the Superbowl, and caused their team to regress... or if I'm being kinder stall.

 

Do you really think going back to Case would have been the correct move for them?  They were right on him, that was an easy call, he quickly turned back into Case Keenum.   So they tried someone else, not a totally unreasonable position to take.  What other options did they have?  

56 minutes ago, Llevron said:

Didn't most mocks have Haskins going in the top 5 or 6 though? **** happens. These guys outsmart themselves all the time. 

 

I dont think the Vikes take him though. They need to address Oline regardless of what they do. And its seems to me contractually speaking they really have no choice but to re-up with Cousins and ride or die with him. Which again isnt the worst position to be in. You atleast have a chance if you give him some good pieces to work with. I might even consider letting some defensive FAs slip in order to sure up his line *if thats even possible.

 

 

 

*Again, no ****ing clue  

 

Yeah no chance they try to get Tua.  While I agree with you on mocks we both know QBs go way earlier than they should every draft out of desperation,  

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9 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

Do you really think going back to Case would have been the correct move for them?  They were right on him, that was an easy call, he quickly turned back into Case Keenum.   So they tried someone else, not a totally unreasonable position to take.  What other options did they have?  

 

I do.

 

There are teams that have strange fits and when it works you ride it. I think the Ravens made a huge mistake getting rid of Trent Dilfer all those years ago. Dilfer was somehow the right QB for that team. Case was the right QB for the Vikings. More, his salary wouldn't have been the albatross on their cap that Kirk's is. Most importantly, if you think you are one piece away from the Super Bowl, that piece isn't one that can never win the big game.

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38 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Can you imagine if Tua is drafted by them, and they dont address the line? AND they get rid of cook who is basically the offense? Not only are they done but when the eventual injury happens, they are all fired. Fans included. They are fired too. And Ragnarok or whatever his name is. 

Yes, but my main point is clearly if the Oline protection breaks down, these mobile QB's coming into the league every year, more and more are able to extend the play.  

 

They can't get rid of Cook or Diggs.   It is ridiculous and it does not address what I see to be the main problem with the Vikings offense.

 

And frankly even the most versatile, mobile QB's are going to get boxed in, by a fast D that can take away the edge and they are not going to be able to avoid it to make up for the deficiencies in ****ty Oline play. 

 

  The one thing with Tua is clearly the injury history.  But I guess i am of the belief that with a good orthopedic surgeon and a good rehab program the player should be good to go. I just don't believe it is going to be a problem and he is going to go in the top 5 IMO.

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3 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Yes, but my main point is clearly if the Oline protection breaks down, these mobile QB's coming into the league every year, more and more are able to extend the play.  

 

Well yea If you cant control the line of scrimmage on O the majority of the time then you need a guy behind center to can make something happen when it breaks down. The Vikes have none of that and if they don't fix it it will be hard to do much of anything. I would say its impressive they got this far but looking at the cap situation its seems the mortgaged the future to do it in about as stupid a way that you can. They must have really believed Cousins was the last piece to the puzzle. 

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51 minutes ago, Tsailand said:

 

Really?  Our team has made about five stupider moves at QB just in the last decade.

We weren't a Superbowl Contender EVER in the last decade. Vikes WERE a serious contender 2017 that had a serviceable QB at low cost. They could gave brought in a GOOD vet as insurance and kept the band together and added in 2018. They went all in for 2018 when they kept the 2017 team pretty much intact and gambled on Cousins. It was a one shot deal given the CAP.

 

Strategically, it was pretty stupid...

 

 

52 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Except our stupid QB moves came when we were a bottom feeder and were trying to get somewhere. There stupid move came when they reached the Championship game, one step away from the Superbowl, and caused their team to regress... or if I'm being kinder stall.

Beat me to it..

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2 hours ago, Llevron said:

I dont even know if you are going to have to go that far up to get Tua to be honest. His injury *I would think would put doubt in alot of peoples minds

 

 

 

 

 

*Literally knows nothing


Watson fell due to injury concerns... Tua could fall into the teens I suppose, this draft is loaded. 

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11 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Well yea If you cant control the line of scrimmage on O the majority of the time then you need a guy behind center to can make something happen when it breaks down. The Vikes have none of that and if they don't fix it it will be hard to do much of anything. I would say its impressive they got this far but looking at the cap situation its seems the mortgaged the future to do it in about as stupid a way that you can. They must have really believed Cousins was the last piece to the puzzle. 

Which really does not make sense. No one player whether through the draft or FA is the "last piece" of a puzzle especially if that said piece is a drop back QB and your line is  inconsistent, and you did not address that when you were considering Cousins in the first place.  it does not hold up well against teams that have decent Dlines.  

 

For me it is always about all the guys on the team doing their job. It is ridiculous narrative to blame one player for you franchises failure.  

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1 hour ago, Llevron said:

 

Can you imagine if Tua is drafted by them, and they dont address the line? AND they get rid of cook who is basically the offense? Not only are they done but when the eventual injury happens, they are all fired. Fans included. They are fired too. And Ragnarok or whatever his name is. 


I wonder what *Dallas could get for Dak 🤨

20 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Well yea If you cant control the line of scrimmage on O the majority of the time then you need a guy behind center to can make something happen when it breaks down. The Vikes have none of that and if they don't fix it it will be hard to do much of anything. I would say its impressive they got this far but looking at the cap situation its seems the mortgaged the future to do it in about as stupid a way that you can. They must have really believed Cousins was the last piece to the puzzle. 


They had an incredible run game & screen game for a team with such a horrific O-line. 

5 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

Which really does not make sense. No one player whether through the draft or FA is the "last piece" of a puzzle 


Tell that to Brashaud Breeland. 

Edited by volsmet
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1 minute ago, skinsmania123 said:

Which really does not make sense. No one player whether through the draft or FA is the "last piece" of a puzzle especially if that said piece is a drop back QB and your line is  inconsistent, and you did not address that when you were considering Cousins in the first place.  it does not hold up well against teams that have decent Dlines.  

 

You wont catch me defending them or the move in anything more than a devils advocate type of way tbh. I thought it was dumb, and I thought the QB was not worth the money. I saw the cap stuff coming.

 

1 minute ago, skinsmania123 said:

For me it is always about all the guys on the team doing their job. It is ridiculous narrative to blame one player for you franchises failure.  

 

---Althouuuuuugh lol. I can see why they thought that AS AS FAN. But their FO should know more than a fan does. Conceivably it made sense that the Redskins were holding Cousins back. Lots of people thought that. Lots of people still do. And conceivably, the Vikes worst position in 2016? 2017? Whatever year that beat the Saints on a magical throw and catch....conceivably the Vikes worst position that year was QB. So I can see just off of that logic it makes sense to marry the two. 

 

But if thats as far as they looked into it is soooooo stupid. I thought Oline was a strength of theirs around that time, too. Could be wrong. But I believe it wasnt until Cousins got there that injuries started to kill the line, then they changed the coach, and its been down hill from there. 

 

I dunno. Im just talking now. No real point other than the Vikes really ****ed this up. I would have given anything to be in thier position 3 years ago. Now I personally think we have more upside than they do. Its a real ****ty situation they are in. 

 

8 minutes ago, volsmet said:


I wonder what *Dallas could get for Dak 🤨

 

You think they would trade him if they could get Tua? Eww I would hate that just cause if Tua is healed I would have to root against him. Thats fair tyo bring up though. Cause if hes just sitting there at your pick, why wouldn't you take him and sit him until Daks contract is up or it obvious you wont keep him? I hate that you brought this up. 

 

8 minutes ago, volsmet said:

They had an incredible run game & screen game for a team with such a horrific O-line. 

 

Thats a good point. They did have a mean screen game and the run game was their bread and butter so obviously the line did something right. Kirk had his chances. He didnt take them. Blaming it all on the line is a fallacy. 

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7 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

 

You think they would trade him if they could get Tua? Eww I would hate that just cause if Tua is healed I would have to root against him. Thats fair tyo bring up though. Cause if hes just sitting there at your pick, why wouldn't you take him and sit him until Daks contract is up or it obvious you wont keep him? I hate that you brought this up. 

 

 

Thats a good point. They did have a mean screen game and the run game was their bread and butter so obviously the line did something right. Kirk had his chances. He didnt take them. Blaming it all on the line is a fallacy. 


Trade Dak, save the money, put Tua behind that line. That’s the move Dallas should make, imo. Tua & Ruggs would make for an interesting round 1. 

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3 hours ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

But @Llevron your right about the fact that the Vikings need to address their Oline no matter what.  But I don't know if the talent is there in the draft or in FA to be honest.  But hey I bet they would take Williams, and he would happily go there because he likes Cousins,  although I admit I want the Skins to keep Williams.  Obviously I am not as negative about Cousin's as many and I still do not think the story on him is completely written and honestly I would like to see the Vikings bring in an O coordinator that is more aggressive and challenges Cousin more to go downfield.  


Thoughts on stretching the field vertically isn’t playing to Kirk Cousins strengths and doesn’t have the enough arm talent to consistently push the ball down the field without it being schemed up via play action? For a QB like Cousins to consistently threaten teams down the field it would require him to be much more cavalier with the football and really press the seams (think Drew Brees).This is why it’s paramount for the pocket QB to have an elite arm in today’s game and that’s barely enough, as you’ve pointed the game continues to trend towards the QB who can extend and create off schedule, IMO

 

2 hours ago, Burgold said:

I do.

 

There are teams that have strange fits and when it works you ride it. I think the Ravens made a huge mistake getting rid of Trent Dilfer all those years ago. Dilfer was somehow the right QB for that team. Case was the right QB for the Vikings. More, his salary wouldn't have been the albatross on their cap that Kirk's is. Most importantly, if you think you are one piece away from the Super Bowl, that piece isn't one that can never win the big game.


In the Vikings defense they were faced with going all in on two year contract worth 20 or so mil a year for Keenum, which eliminates his value to a franchise, IMO.
 

The Vikes should have looked for the next bargain veteran via trade or free agency to remain in a good cap situation, but this is uncharted territory without much history of proven success, but plenty of examples of over paying a QB. Only time we really see these kind of moves is if the organization is forced to for various reasons. 
 

**Case Keenum carried a cap charge of 

$2 million during the run with Vikings in 2017. Supreme value.

Edited by wit33
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3 hours ago, KDawg said:


Im not sure why that’s so funny...

 

I was laughing at a mock having the Redskins passing on a once in a generation defensive force for a QB at 2 with that injury history after they invested in Haskins. That is NOT going to happen  

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2 hours ago, Burgold said:

I do.

 

There are teams that have strange fits and when it works you ride it. I think the Ravens made a huge mistake getting rid of Trent Dilfer all those years ago. Dilfer was somehow the right QB for that team. Case was the right QB for the Vikings. More, his salary wouldn't have been the albatross on their cap that Kirk's is. Most importantly, if you think you are one piece away from the Super Bowl, that piece isn't one that can never win the big game.

 

The only part that I agree with is the part about the cap and how Kirk is not the guy to put them over the top. But the Vikes did not know that at the time, what they did know what Case Keenum was not the answer and that once in a career regular season was a fluke.   Once the playoffs started he reverted to, well, Case Kennum and absolutely killed their chances against the Eagles. The Vikes understood he was the road to nowhere so they tried the best QB option that was available. Then Keenum came here and showed once again who has been for the bulk of his career and that is a bad starting QB.  

 

The Ravens won despite Dilfer, they knew trying to win with an offense that went a month without scoring a TD (or whatever that stat was) was simply not sustainable. I'm actually stunned anyone would actually believe they should have kept a stiff like Dilfer.  

 

 

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11 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

 

The Ravens won despite Dilfer, they knew trying to win with an offense that went a month without scoring a TD (or whatever that stat was) was simply not sustainable. I'm actually stunned anyone would actually believe they should have kept a stiff like Dilfer.  

 

 

See, the thing is... and I admit it makes no sense. The Ravens sucked post-Dilfer. They couldn't even get to the playoffs despite still having that amazing defense. It took almost a decade for Baltimore to find a QB again. Dilfer made their engine run. It's sort of like the Alex Smith story. Watching the games, Alex Smith was terrible, but when the dust cleared we were 6-3. As soon as he went down, the team couldn't win a game to save its life.

 

Sometimes, the piece that doesn't make sense and is ugly and ill fitting and downright embarrassing is the one that gets the job done. That piece is often not appreciated and traded in for something pretty, but in cases like this you find, even though the replacement is a higher quality part, a better part, a more expensive and higher rated part... the car just doesn't run right anymore.

 

Case would love to get Kirk's stats. At the end of the day, the Vikings need their version of a Dilfer.

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26 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

The Ravens won despite Dilfer, they knew trying to win with an offense that went a month without scoring a TD (or whatever that stat was) was simply not sustainable. I'm actually stunned anyone would actually believe they should have kept a stiff like Dilfer.  

 

 

 

You and I see so far apart on quarterbacks it's difficult to even begin to speak about.

 

But no, they didn't win despite of him. He was what they needed to win.

5 minutes ago, Burgold said:

See, the thing is... and I admit it makes no sense.

 

Again, people miss this in QB evaluations.

 

A QB with the ability to inspire his teammates is invaluable. That's exactly what Dilfer did. The Ravens knew he would be prepared and do his best.

 

Grbac, a "better" QB, did not. 

 

But people keep writing off this aspect of quarterback play in favor of arm strength and statistics in the Big 10 and Pac 12 in these evaluations. It's frustrating to see over and over again.

 

It makes plenty of sense.

 

 

Edited by KDawg
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On 1/12/2020 at 11:57 AM, Redd said:

47 pages of nonsense.  Entertaining nonsense but arguing about a player 2 years removed from the team.  Last few pages are also about a player 4+ years removed from the team.

 

Let's gooooo. I keep coming back for the entertainment because that's all we're getting with this thread.


I disagree, yeah it’s largely the same discussion over 47 pages, but it’s one of the most impactful decisions the franchise has made in recent memory. Also, the discussion we are having in the last 47 pages, the Vikings are now starting to have - Is Kirk Cousins worth it?
 

What is there to talk about when your team goes 3-13???

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