FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[HTTRDynasty]

Ah, the old "gut" excuse.  Never fails.  That was part of the justification for the war in the early 2000s by our former president, if I recall correctly.  

 

At least he's not lying anymore and finally (begrudgingly) admitting his inconsistent messaging and decision-making.

 

 

[ExoDus84]

1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Ah, the old "gut" excuse.  Never fails.  That was part of the justification for the war in the early 2000s by our former president, if I recall correctly.  

 

At least he's not lying anymore and finally (begrudgingly) admitting his inconsistent messaging and decision-making.

 

I too, would have liked Rivera to tell the simple, unfiltered truth the day Haskins was benched.

 

"Yeah, he's been, you know, watching less film than Tress Way, and I think we've all seen him throw God knows how many uncatchable passes. I mean, I could probably throw a more accurate pass, wouldn't you guys agree? Let's be honest here: Jarvis Landry throws a better ball. Did you see his pass to OBJ a few weeks back? I just though Haskins' intangibles, such as the his grasp of social media and the expert way he takes selfies with fans when the game is still going on, just wasn't enough to maintain the starting job. We actually prefer decent QB play instead."

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

I too, would have liked Rivera to tell the simple, unfiltered truth the day Haskins was benched.

 

"Yeah, he's been, you know, watching less film than Tress Way, and I think we've all seen him throw God knows how many uncatchable passes. I mean, I could probably throw a more accurate pass, wouldn't you guys agree? Let's be honest here: Jarvis Landry throws a better ball. Did you see his pass to OBJ a few weeks back? I just though Haskins' intangibles, such as the his grasp of social media and the expert way he takes selfies with fans when the game is still going on, just wasn't enough to maintain the starting job. We actually prefer decent QB play instead."

 

I would have loved that.  Maybe certain people would stop hiding behind the anonymous work ethic reports as their justification for the Haskins benching if Rivera was straight up about his feelings from the start.

[KDawg]

14 minutes ago, Fat Stupid Loser said:

I shrugged a couple times actually.       His immaturity issues are why he isn't playing. He is not good and his immaturity issues/attitude will prevent him from ever being good.  Which is why he is practice team essentially. Coaches clearly see no point in wasting time on him.

This is my point.

[ExoDus84]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I would have loved that.  Maybe certain people would stop hiding behind the anonymous work ethic reports as their justification for the Haskins benching if Rivera was straight up about his feelings from the start.

 

Are the work ethic reports anonymous? Didn't Rivera himself mention frustration in the locker room, and insinuated that it was because of Haskins' play, and/or preparation?

[HTTRDynasty]

1 minute ago, ExoDus84 said:

Are the work ethic reports anonymous?

 

Yes.  The reports about his great work ethic all offseason were not.  These new ones are.

 

1 minute ago, ExoDus84 said:

Didn't Rivera himself mention frustration in the locker room, and insinuated that it was because of Haskins' play, and/or preparation?

 

No.  I haven't seen or heard anything from Rivera saying Haskins not working hard enough was the reason for his benching.

[Cooleyfan1993]

26 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Ah, the old "gut" excuse.  Never fails.  That was part of the justification for the war in the early 2000s by our former president, if I recall correctly.  

 

At least he's not lying anymore and finally (begrudgingly) admitting his inconsistent messaging and decision-making.

 

 

I dont think he’s admitting to being inconsistent at all, i think he was saying it looks and sounds (to fans) inconsistent. 
 

i dont think it was inconsistent at all, i think it was just simply him changing his mind once he knew just how truly awful the division is and how he thinks they could have an actual shot this year (i dont think they have any realistic shot, but as long as they’re 1 game out of 1st, i think they’re going to work as if they do)

[mistertim]

53 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Cooley, Sheehan, Bullock, etc. have been killing Rivera for his confusing flip-flopping and in-game decisions.  Are you willing to admit you've been wrong to defend him this season because they are down on him, and are citing examples as to why?  I know the answer is no.  

 

It's the same with Haskins for people who still support him.  People aren't going to completely give up on a QB they liked and still think can be good just because of negative reports about his immaturity and work ethic concerns (things that generally improve as a player ages).  If people think he was given a raw deal here from the moment he was drafted, and haven't seen enough of him to make a decision about what he is one way or the other, they aren't going to give up on him and "admit they were wrong".

 

I don't think those things need to be mutually exclusive. One can question some of the decisions that Rivera has made while still believing that he had valid reasons for benching Haskins, especially if it seems corroborated by other sources. The dude's not Jesus, but he's also not Hitler.

[Est.1974]

3 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

- Rivera then promptly benched Haskins for Allen after a nonsensical, token evaluation process full of little games and tests that no coach genuinely interested in developing a player would ever do.

You’re inability to recognise some widely noted issue with Haskins is very strange.

[HTTRDynasty]

16 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

I don't think those things need to be mutually exclusive. One can question some of the decisions that Rivera has made while still believing that he had valid reasons for benching Haskins, especially if it seems corroborated by other sources. The dude's not Jesus, but he's also not Hitler.

 

Which is my point about Haskins.  Those of us who support him can still do so, even after all the negative reports, if we don't think he was given long enough to prove what he is as a player.  This dude is also neither Jesus nor Hitler.

[wit33]

8 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said:

I dont think he’s admitting to being inconsistent at all, i think he was saying it looks and sounds (to fans) inconsistent. 
 

i dont think it was inconsistent at all, i think it was just simply him changing his mind once he knew just how truly awful the division is and how he thinks they could have an actual shot this year (i dont think they have any realistic shot, but as long as they’re 1 game out of 1st, i think they’re going to work as if they do)

How any coach goes into an NFL season not wanting to compete is beyond me, especially with how I thought Ron operates as a coach. I will admit my perceptions of Ron were baseless, so my expectations were unrealistic as I reflect. 

 

I get the approach of playing younger guys in a season and attempting to avoid expectations and focus on growth, just thought he’d go about it a bit differently and not outwardly communicate it so early in a season. Not a deal breaker or anything and will all be forgotten next year with some success. 

[CapsSkins]

I really thin this came down to 90% work ethic / maturity issues. And the other 10% is that Dwayne isn't good enough *at this point in time* to justify tolerating bad work ethic from your quarterback as you're trying to build a new culture.

 

If he's playing like Lawrence Taylor you can put up with Lawrence Taylor-level immaturity. And if he's busting his ass, you can bet on his growth potential bc you see him putting in the work to get better every day. But if he's playing like **** and rolling up to the facility like he's already got a gold jacket, then it's time to stop wasting your energy and give the reps to someone who might actually be in the team's long-term plans (Kyle as backup). 

[philibusters]

38 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Which is my point about Haskins.  Those of us who support him can still do so, even after all the negative reports, if we don't think he was given long enough to prove what he is as a player.  This dude is also neither Jesus nor Hitler.

 

That is how  I feel.  I thought it was a mistake to bench Haskins, but I can also acknowledge Haskins was playing at a below average level.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

50 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Which is my point about Haskins.  Those of us who support him can still do so, even after all the negative reports, if we don't think he was given long enough to prove what he is as a player.  This dude is also neither Jesus nor Hitler.

I don't think anyone is of the belief that Haskins is a bad person or really care if you still 'support' him.  You aren't alone in thinking he would have been given more time to prove himself.   It's the finger pointing as if the head coach is a terrible person who has set out to ruin Haskins career and the refusal to acknowledge where there is smoke there is typically fire in regards to his work ethic and maturity, that most of us take issue with.  I hope for Haskins sake he hasn't taken on the mindset of his biggest fans here, because if so - he's done.

[mistertim]

1 hour ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Which is my point about Haskins.  Those of us who support him can still do so, even after all the negative reports, if we don't think he was given long enough to prove what he is as a player.  This dude is also neither Jesus nor Hitler.

 

That's fair, though it feels sometimes like his biggest "supporters" in here (for lack of a better term...I think we all wish he was the answer at QB) refuse to admit that his own shortcomings may be a big reason Haskins was benched, as opposed to it being some sort of conspiracy and/or a coach out to get him because he wasn't "his" guy.

 

I wasn't a fan of drafting Haskins, but I fully supported him once he was here and I thought he should get this whole season, but if the stories about his maturity and work ethic issues have merit, then I can understand Rivera demoting him because that goes way beyond footwork/technique issues or fully understanding a playbook. 

[Conn]

5 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

Eh, I can't understand how anyone can have watched the nonsensical way Rivera has handled the QB position since he got here and still take everything he's said at face value.  Still have total faith in his honesty or competence.

Idk man. I get that you disagree because you really liked Haskins as a prospect—but I think if you start from a mental space that allows for the idea that Haskins might actually be bad and work and act poorly, and Rivera just doesn’t know how to move forward without saying that to the media, it all starts to make a lot of logical sense. It just requires believing it’s POSSIBLE that Haskins was not actually a great prospect at all and Snyder ****ed it up.

[SkinsFTW]

31 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

It just requires believing it’s POSSIBLE that Haskins was not actually a great prospect at all and Snyder ****ed it up.

 

 

And if that's hard to believe then 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Cooley, Sheehan, Bullock, etc. have been killing Rivera for his confusing flip-flopping and in-game decisions.  Are you willing to admit you've been wrong to defend him this season because they are down on him, and are citing examples as to why?  I know the answer is no.  

 

 

 

 My take on Haskins has just about zero to do with Rivera.  Rivera is just the kicker, the gravy.  I think Haskins doesn't have it, i'd be open to change my mind of this or the previous coaching staff was sold on him but alas they have not been.  My bigger point is I've heard enough to believe his intangibles at least in the present moment aren't good.   The intangibles part is the crux of my argument.  And yes I don't believe Rivera is lying about it.  That doesn't mean i think Rivera is perfect.  But hearing now from two different coaching staffs that he doesn't work hard -- yes i believe it.

 

Also  I disagree that its ok for Dan to interfere and make personnel calls.  It doesn't matter to me one iota if his favorite player in the draft happens to jive with my choice.  It's a process-structure question. It's not a case by case basis.  It should be never. 

 

The idea that I think Rivera or any coach is perfect and I'll never criticize them is silly.  Go do some searches and you'll find I've criticized Rivera and heck even my idol Gibbs when he was here.  My opinion about Haskins isn't based with Rivera.  Rivera is just the coup de gras for me. 

 

I don't idolize players or coaches.  But I support any coach, especially a new one, to make any decision they choose.  The chain of command is important IMO. I am not supporting ANY player if I hear numerous stories about them not working hard.  And if that's the case the coach can bench and should whichever player they please regardless of how I felt about them before the draft. 

 

4 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

It's the same with Haskins for people who still support him.  People aren't going to completely give up on a QB they liked and still think can be good just because of negative reports about his immaturity and work ethic concerns (things that generally improve as a player ages).  If people think he was given a raw deal here from the moment he was drafted, and haven't seen enough of him to make a decision about what he is one way or the other, they aren't going to give up on him and "admit they were wrong".

 

So are you here admitting that the reports about his immatury and work ethic might be on the money? If you have in the past and I missed it, sorry.  I thought you've been blowing off that narrative. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

To me this is 100% on Dan Snyder.  0% on Ron.

 

The only issue with Ron is how good of a public liar can he be on this issue?  That's it IMO.  If people want to accuse him for being a bad liar--politician on this, I'd agree.  I've had to lie on behalf of bosses before and cover up their crap.  There is an art to it that not everyone has or is that practiced in.   You have to sadly be uniquely skilled in damage control when you work for this organization.   

 

You are saddled with an owner who messed with personnel and apparently created some angst in that FO.  You got all the scandals. You got the name change.  Rivera has inherited a lot of garbage.  and in between that, he's dealing with cancer.

 

So yeah him benching a dude whose behavior is apparently rubbing some the wrong way, is considered immature and not working that hard -- seems on point to me as opposed to crazy if you are trying to right a messed up culture.

 

If people want to give him a bad grade for essentially doing a bad job publicly about communicating how he really feels about Haskins -- OK.  i don't think Rivera wants to publicly blast him but maybe the honesty of doing it would be refreshing.  But personally, I don't care.  I am not going to give Rivera a bad grade for cleaning up Dan's messes.  He has been very good IMO dealing with the name and scandals.

 

As for Haskins, I suspect Ron is holding his tongue and on occasion things slip out and then on occasion you hear standard BS coach speak where he's trying to come off like Haskins really has a chance.  And the back and forth bothers people.  For me, the issue is he shouldn't have to bother with this in the first place.  But my top thing with a coach is not how well they explain the benching of a player.  I can care less.  They don't need to explain it at all in my book.

 

This isn't a Rivera special.  This is a Dan Snyder special.  Dan is the dysfunction not the people working under him save Bruce and Vinny.  Looked at how clunky it was for Kyle Shanahan and Mike Shanahan responding to the McNabb situation.  Look how it was for Jay with RG3 when he blasted him.  

 

None of these coaches were celebrated at the time for their handling of it.  We had similar conversations then like we are having now about those coaches.  What's the common denominator?  Dan.  Dan had his hand in those QB decisions.  I used to ignore that dynamic but I think/hope I learned from that. 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

My take on Haskins has just about zero to do with Rivera.  Rivera is just the kicker, the gravy.  I think Haskins doesn't have it, i'd be open to change my mind of this or the previous coaching staff was sold on him but alas they have not been.  My bigger point is I've heard enough to believe his intangibles at least in the present moment aren't good.   The intangibles part is the crux of my argument.  And yes I don't believe Rivera is lying about it.  That doesn't mean i think Rivera is perfect.  But hearing now from two different coaching staffs that he doesn't work hard -- yes i believe it.

 

Also  I disagree that its ok for Dan to interfere and make personnel calls.  It doesn't matter to me one iota if his favorite player in the draft happens to jive with my choice.  It's a process-structure question. It's not a case by case basis.  It should be never. 

 

The idea that I think Rivera or any coach is perfect and I'll never criticize them is silly.  Go do some searches and you'll find I've criticized Rivera and heck even my idol Gibbs when he was here.  My opinion about Haskins isn't based with Rivera.  Rivera is just the coup de gras for me. 

 

I don't idolize players or coaches.  But I support any coach, especially a new one, to make any decision they choose.  The chain of command is important IMO. I am not supporting ANY player if I hear numerous stories about them not working hard.  And if that's the case the coach can bench and should whichever player they please regardless of how I felt about them before the draft. 

 

So are you here admitting that the reports about his immatury and worth ethic might be on the money? If you have in the past and I missed it, sorry.  I thought you've been blowing off that narrative. 

 

 

 

You're missing the point of my post.  You're completely entitled to your opinion on Rivera.  But people are also entitled to their opinion on Haskins, as well as how much credence people are willing to give to these reports about his intangibles.  Personally, I believe some of it is true, but I'm not buying into every rumor or anonymous report I hear, especially after the amount of positive stories we heard and saw this offseason as it relates to his work ethic.

 

I think there is a large difference between "blowing off" that narrative and not buying into it all.  I think the latter is where most Haskins supporters are at.  Additionally, even if you did buy into it 100%, people are entitled to their opinion that it shouldn't mean Haskins should be benched and demoted to 3rd string/inactive, especially given the lack of true support he's been given since being drafted.

 

 

1 hour ago, mistertim said:

 

That's fair, though it feels sometimes like his biggest "supporters" in here (for lack of a better term...I think we all wish he was the answer at QB) refuse to admit that his own shortcomings may be a big reason Haskins was benched, as opposed to it being some sort of conspiracy and/or a coach out to get him because he wasn't "his" guy.

 

I wasn't a fan of drafting Haskins, but I fully supported him once he was here and I thought he should get this whole season, but if the stories about his maturity and work ethic issues have merit, then I can understand Rivera demoting him because that goes way beyond footwork/technique issues or fully understanding a playbook. 

 

I think most people are willing to admit Haskins has played below average, some of it due to his own shortcomings and some of it due to the situation he was thrown into.  I think a lot of us just differ on how much weight we give the former vs the latter in the way we mentally frame the fairness of his benching and whether it was justified.  And like I said before, not everyone is fully buying in to every story about his maturity and/or work ethic.

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

You're missing the point of my post.  You're completely entitled to your opinion on Rivera.  But people are also entitled to their opinion on Haskins, as well

 

You are missing my point.  It's not about Rivera.  I am not picking ANY player over a coach.   I did it once and in retrospect I was wrong.

 

34 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

But people are also entitled to their opinion on Haskins, as well as how much credence people are willing to give to these reports about his intangibles.  

 

This is where you lose me as to the credence of those reports.  IMO you'd have to be incredibly locked into a player to blow off all of those reports.  My love for a player before the draft doesn't supersede like 15 reports coming from everywhere about their work ethic and maturity.   I loved Guice.  When the stories came out this summer I believed it. 

 

If I read all those stories about Antonio Gibson, a dude I loved before the draft, I'd believe them, its way too much smoke.  Galdi and Sheehan like you loved Haskins and were jazzed about him as a player -- they believe these stories too, their opinion changed. 

 

These players aren't my pals where I can personally vouch for what kind of people they are.  It would be one thing if it was one off obscure story.  But there are a ton from all over the place.  No way, i'd blow off that type narrative about any player.  

 

34 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

people are entitled to their opinion that it shouldn't mean Haskins should be benched and demoted to 3rd string/inactive, especially given the lack of true support he's been given since being drafted.

 

You are entitled of course to any opinion.  But my only point about how Haskins should be supported is I don't see how people blow off Dan's dynamic in this and how that variable is a key one here as opposed to it not existing.  It's like saying falling in love and getting married is exactly the same as being stuck with an arranged marriage.  if you are stuck with an arranged marriage and you have an opportunity to get out of it -- its not crazy to actually do it. 

 

Is Haskins partly a victim in that?  Sure.  Is he the victim of Dan or Ron?  it's Dan not Ron.  it's Dan who created the odd arranged marriage.

[SoCalSkins]

5 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

I think most people are willing to admit Haskins has played below average, some of it due to his own shortcomings and some of it due to the situation he was thrown into.  

 

 

He’s way worse than “below average”. He is historically bad. One of the biggest busts ever. That’s why he is done here forever. He will never play again for Washington. It’s done. You can keep whining about it but that’s the reality. Dude will go down on the list of biggest first round busts ever. His NFL career is effectively over. He might bounce around a year or two before his career is officially euthanized.
 

 

[Kelvin Bryant]

On 10/21/2020 at 2:16 PM, SoCalSkins said:

I don’t think you can name a single person on this board who has said Allen is a long term answer or a potential franchise QB. 

In that case, what the heck.

I think Allen might be a franchise QB. 
There's no downside. If he is, I will forever point back to this thread as unassailable evidence of my profound football insight. If not, I will quietly slip into the mist.
Remember, you heard it here.

[SoCalSkins]

2 minutes ago, Kelvin Bryant said:

In that case, what the heck.

I think Allen might be a franchise QB. 
There's no downside. If he is, I will forever point back to this thread as unassailable evidence of my profound football insight. If not, I will quietly slip into the mist.
Remember, you heard it here.

Be more definitive man! “Kyle Allen is the next Tom Brady”. If it doesn’t work out blame Snyder for meddling  and cutting what would obviously otherwise be a hall of fame career short. 

[Skins199021]

8 hours ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

It's clear now in hindsight that he was lying when he said this.  This is what I think happened:

 

- Rivera really wanted this job.  He failed up by taking it.  Nobody else would have given him anywhere close to this much power.

- Rivera misled Snyder about his interest in working with Haskins and Kevin O'Connell during the interview process in order to make sure he got the job.

- Rivera promptly moved on from O'Connell after a token interview process and brought in his guy in Scott Turner.

- Rivera then promptly traded for Kyle Allen because Allen is Turner's guy.

- Rivera then promptly benched Haskins for Allen after a nonsensical, token evaluation process full of little games and tests that no coach genuinely interested in developing a player would ever do.

 

Rivera has been playing little power games since he got here, to assert his control over the team and get all of his own guys in here.  It's been to the detriment of the team and many of the players who were here, particularly Haskins.  He's probably alienating ownership already.  He'll have carte balnche for this season, but if he doesn't start winning next year I bet he'll get fired.

Bro you can't be serious....

 

Yeah I rather have Rivera's fingerprints all over this team, then the nasty ones that have been on this team over the last 25 years. You are acting like we were the patriots and Rivera is dismantling the team

 

Rivera came to take charge of a team that just had the 2nd pick in the draft. With a very bad QB. He inherited a really ****ty team, and organization as a whole.

 

I don't get why people can't face reality sometimes.