FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Darrell Green Fan]

3 minutes ago, philibusters said:

 

I don't think Haskins sucked quite as much as you do and that probably somewhat shades our view.  

 

i am still hopeful for Rivera, though I thought he benched Haskins too quickly.   Haskins only threw interceptions in 2 out of his last 8 starts so for the most part he was protecting the ball.  he definitely left some plays on the table, but I think he was still learning the system which given there was no preseason and Haskins is not a book worm was going to take some time.  It is what it is, I didn't like the decision, but I have reconciled with it.

 

Yeah I don't see how anyone can watch those 4 games and come to any other conclusion than Dwayne Haskins sucked.  It's mind boggling actually.  Again with his cement feet the only way he will succeed is to have really good accuracy and an understanding of what is happening in front of him.  He has neither.

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

12 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

So is there a similar cutoff for Allen? Does he stop seeing the faces of the other 52 guys who are trying their hardest? Do they not matter any more? Its what frustrated me initially with the benching. Its not that Haskins was playing lights out. Its that Ron threw him under the bus. 

 

People say that the whole win stuff if fluff to not embarrass Haskins, but dude literally threw him under the bus and painted a picture of 52 against 1 as if Haskins was the ONLY problem on the team. Thay's why so many jumped to his defense. And especially when we're getting the same results out of Allen. 

 

Its so funny because a lot of the same people who were poking holes in the "Haskins had a decent game today" arguments weeks 1-4 are the same ones defending Allen's mediocre game as if he parted the Red Sea on Sunday. 

 

 

Players' on-field production and coaches' decisions and explanations require the same thing:

 

 

 

 

The one thing I still value highly from Rivera is his ability to change the culture of the team. Look at how the Cowboys' locker room is imploding with the player leaks to media members about coaches not knowing what they're doing--it's like they have a roster full of DJ Swearingers lol...no WFT players are complaining to media members about coaches or schemes, which I chalk up to Rivera's presence. It's yet another reason I think Haskins' agent's tweet soured him on Dwayne...nobody else on the team came close to having something like that occur.

 

My hope is that Ron is being far more consistent with the players than he is with the media...if he is then things will get turned around sooner rather than later.

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, Califan007 said:

 

My hope is that Ron is being far more consistent with the players than he is with the media...if he is then things will get turned around sooner rather than later.

 

Well, I'm kinda waiting for somebody to get cut. We saw a guy retire yesterday. I think that's where we may start hearing more about the locker room. For all we know it could be the players keeping it together "for Ron" because he doesn't know what's going on. They could be having daily "players only meetings"

[ExoDus84]

Just now, Thinking Skins said:

So if we're still losing games, Allen's putting up 2TOs a game (or 1.5 cause I think that's his average), we;re OK with that? I don't want Ron to throw him under the bus but he literally just acted like he didn't throw Dwayne under the bus

 

Why are you asking me if we're ok with bad QB play? Of course we shouldn't be ok with it. We have 3 subpar options at QB right now, there's no getting around it. However, we have 2 QB's who work their asses off, and one who apparently does not. The one that does not, who was also playing very poorly, got benched.

 

I don't know why it's such a shock that the worst rated passer in the NFL, who has by all accounts not been putting in enough work, would get benched. Some posters are acting like we just benched Patrick Mahomes.

[SoCalSkins]

8 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

So is there a similar cutoff for Allen? Does he stop seeing the faces of the other 52 guys who are trying their hardest? Do they not matter any more? Its what frustrated me initially with the benching. Its not that Haskins was playing lights out. Its that Ron threw him under the bus. 

 

People say that the whole win stuff if fluff to not embarrass Haskins, but dude literally threw him under the bus and painted a picture of 52 against 1 as if Haskins was the ONLY problem on the team. Thay's why so many jumped to his defense. And especially when we're getting the same results out of Allen. 

 

Its so funny because a lot of the same people who were poking holes in the "Haskins had a decent game today" arguments weeks 1-4 are the same ones defending Allen's mediocre game as if he parted the Red Sea on Sunday. 

Haskins is done in Washington. Ron said “he has seen enough”. It’s over for Haskins. 
 

Kyle will likely be the backup going forward. His version of Colt McCoy to Gruden. 

 

I don’t think you can name a single person on this board who has said Allen is a long term answer or a potential franchise QB. 
 

Haskins is absolutely not one and with his crap attitude will be out of the NFL shortly. it’s not a difficult concept dude. Haskins sucks and has no commitment to put in what it takes. His career is effectively over. Comparing him to Allen is not going to change that fact.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

Just now, Thinking Skins said:

 

Well, I'm kinda waiting for somebody to get cut. We saw a guy retire yesterday. I think that's where we may start hearing more about the locker room. For all we know it could be the players keeping it together "for Ron" because he doesn't know what's going on. They could be having daily "players only meetings"

 

Something tells me if that were happening we would have heard about it in one way or another. Players-only meetings aren't exactly a secret or a sign about a coach, they happen regularly over the years.

[GOATFrerotte]

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

Well, I'm kinda waiting for somebody to get cut. We saw a guy retire yesterday. I think that's where we may start hearing more about the locker room. For all we know it could be the players keeping it together "for Ron" because he doesn't know what's going on. They could be having daily "players only meetings"

 

Now that's extreme speculation, lol

[Thinking Skins]

Just now, GOATFrerotte said:

 

Now that's extreme speculation, lol

I have my sources

[yoshibob]

29 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

Hailey: Do you have a cutoff point like you did for Dwayne? 

Ron: I never had a cutoff point for Dwayne

 

rewind to week 4. 

Reporter: Do you have a cutoff point for Dwayne? 

Ron: At some point you have a cutoff because you don't see the faces on the sideline....

This doesnt seem contradictory to me.   Week 4 was the week that he gave Dwayne the challenge to peform or be benched.     It was public and we all knew this.   

 

People can get caught up in the symantics of the word "never",   But when answering a question on the fly, i can understand why he would say this.

 

 

[ExoDus84]

4 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

I have my sources

 

By all means, tell us more Adam Schefter.

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

Snyderism never dies.  New regime, same old stuff.  20+ years later, here we are - still having civil wars amongst the fan base over the QB position.  

 

This thread had the juice there for a while, but all this word parsing about what Ron said is just Snyderism in a nut shell.  20 some odd years later.  God help us.

[ILikeBilly]

I have an answer to why Ron did what he did that I haven't seen mentioned.  Ron realized that if Haskins kept playing, we would win 2-3 games during this "easy" stretch.  That would ruin our tank for ???.  So, bench Haskins, allow Allen to lose some games.  Then, with Haskins weeping in his pillow, he can become the starter later in the season, and give us a few more losses.  Thus, our genius coach has tanked the season, given both qbs a "chance" and kept the other players happy.  GENIUS!!!

[Califan007 The Constipated]

6 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Snyderism never dies.  New regime, same old stuff.  20+ years later, here we are - still having civil wars amongst the fan base over the QB position.  

 

This thread had the juice there for a while, but all this word parsing about what Ron said is just Snyderism in a nut shell.  20 some odd years later.  God help us.

 

Should we ignore contradictions by the head coach, then? I mean, there are extremely valid reasons why we should not. But those reasons seem to be flushed down the toilet a lot in service of maintaining an "In Ron I Trust" view on things. I don't agree with anyone who says Rivera should be fired...that's ludicrous. But I also don't agree with anyone who claims the only reason people are criticizing Rivera is because of their love for Haskins. I know this is ExtremeSkins but we don't always have to break every discussion and debate into the polar opposite extreme stances lol...(not saying you were doing this, by the way)

 

 

3 minutes ago, ILikeBilly said:

I have an answer to why Ron did what he did that I haven't seen mentioned.  Ron realized that if Haskins kept playing, we would win 2-3 games during this "easy" stretch.  That would ruin our tank for ???.  So, bench Haskins, allow Allen to lose some games.  Then, with Haskins weeping in his pillow, he can become the starter later in the season, and give us a few more losses.  Thus, our genius coach has tanked the season, given both qbs a "chance" and kept the other players happy.  GENIUS!!!

 

That's been mentioned lol...

[Darrell Green Fan]

10 minutes ago, ILikeBilly said:

I have an answer to why Ron did what he did that I haven't seen mentioned.  Ron realized that if Haskins kept playing, we would win 2-3 games during this "easy" stretch.  That would ruin our tank for ???.  So, bench Haskins, allow Allen to lose some games.  Then, with Haskins weeping in his pillow, he can become the starter later in the season, and give us a few more losses.  Thus, our genius coach has tanked the season, given both qbs a "chance" and kept the other players happy.  GENIUS!!!

 

If Ron's plan was to tank for the high pick he would have simply kept trotting Dwayne out there, problem solved.  

[ILikeBilly]

3 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

If Ron's plan was to tank for the high pick he would have simply kept trotting Dwayne out there, problem solved.  

I firmly believe we would have won the giants game if Haskins had never been bench.  Without Dak and a giants rematch, 2 or 3 wins was possible.  Just my opinion.

[GOATFrerotte]

2 minutes ago, ILikeBilly said:

I firmly believe we would have won the giants game if Haskins had never been bench.  Without Dak and a giants rematch, 2 or 3 wins was possible.  Just my opinion.

 

I firmly believe we would have lost if Haskins was qb. He's the worst qb in the nfl and all his 3 and outs would have just gave the Giants more possessions. 

[ILikeBilly]

1 minute ago, GOATFrerotte said:

 

I firmly believe we would have lost if Haskins was qb. He's the worst qb in the nfl and all his 3 and outs would have just gave the Giants more possessions. 

FYI, he had ONE 3 and out versus the ravens.

[GOATFrerotte]

3 minutes ago, ILikeBilly said:

FYI, he had ONE 3 and out versus the ravens.

 

Yea, and he had 8 against Arizona and Cleveland combined (with his turnovers). 

[CapsSkins]

Apparently Pat McAfee said on his show today something along the lines of "if the real story about why Haskins was benched gets released, it will be big” and he was alluding that he hears that a story may be coming out... 

 

Anybody listen to the show and hear that?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

55 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

Should we ignore contradictions by the head coach, then? I mean, there are extremely valid reasons why we should not. But those reasons seem to be flushed down the toilet a lot in service of maintaining an "In Ron I Trust" view on things. I don't agree with anyone who says Rivera should be fired...that's ludicrous. But I also don't agree with anyone who claims the only reason people are criticizing Rivera is because of their love for Haskins. I know this is ExtremeSkins but we don't always have to break every discussion and debate into the polar opposite extreme stances lol...(not saying you were doing this, by the way)

All i'm saying is this is Snyderitis, Snyderism, whatever we want to call it in a nutshell.  Somehow as a fanbase we always find ourselves in this very place.  Head coach/QB drama, fan civil war, etc.  And it always ties back to moves that Snyders fingerprints are on.

 

As for me personally, I'm not a huge 'In Ron I Trust' guy as far as believing he's the end all-be all of head coaching and is immune to criticism.  That said, I give him enough credit as a human being and a leader, based off what I do know about him - to not be an evil dick that delegates Haskins to 3rd string all willy nilly, without having good reason to do so.  What he says to who and when and the semantics of it all just doesn't mean much to me.  And I think the only reason why some here appear to care about it so much is because their motive is to discredit what Ron's doing because they are emotional about what he did to Haskins.  

[88Comrade2000]

11 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Apparently Pat McAfee said on his show today something along the lines of "if the real story about why Haskins was benched gets released, it will be big” and he was alluding that he hears that a story may be coming out... 

 

Anybody listen to the show and hear that?

Whatever it is, it’s par for the course.

 

I don’t care about the 3rd stringer. He earned that slot.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

8 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

All i'm saying is this is Snyderitis, Snyderism, whatever we want to call it in a nutshell.  Somehow as a fanbase we always find ourselves in this very place.  Head coach/QB drama, fan civil war, etc.  And it always ties back to moves that Snyders fingerprints are on.

 

As for me personally, I'm not a huge 'In Ron I Trust' guy as far as believing he's the end all-be all of head coaching and is immune to criticism.  That said, I give him enough credit as a human being and a leader, based off what I do know about him - to not be an evil dick that delegates Haskins to 3rd string all willy nilly, without having good reason to do so.  What he says to who and when and the semantics of it all just doesn't mean much to me.  And I think the only reason why some here appear to care about it so much is because their motive is to discredit what Ron's doing because they are emotional about what he did to Haskins.  

 

So you fall into the "only reason people are criticizing Rivera is because of their love for Haskins" camp? Well, for some people anyway?

 

For me, designating Rivera's  seemingly contradictory and confusing explanations as "semantics" removes any nuanced discussion about him as a coach, and declares what he's been saying as irrelevant. We end up keeping the extreme opposing views as the main discussion points, which rarely leads to anything worthwhile.

[Thinking Skins]

All I'm saying is that these things are going to be sound bytes for years to come when this is all over. This is on Zorn and Spurrier levels of incompetence. 

 

[wit33]

 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Thanks for posting that game, its what I needed to be sworn off from Haskins completely unless Rivera is resold based on practices, etc.  I was hanging on that game as maybe this dude has got it. It was his best one.  But rewatching it, it was a lot of dink and dunk - short-intermediate -- YAC, YAC, YAC.  He has three really nice intermediate type throws, one of which was McLaurin was open by a mile.  

 

YAC? Didn’t see much YAC at all.
 

Outside of Mcclaurin TD, which was aided by Haskins’ arm talent and safety appearing to not think the ball would get there as quick as it did and took a bad angle. 

 

I’m not hear to detest YAC or discredit a player because of YAC. The game I posted was full of completions that limit his exposure to touch throws and a planned attack to take advantage of his arm strength. Before we go to an extreme, I’m not saying it was a great or elite game, but made a lot of promising throws.
 

Seemed like a scheme built around Haskins, not the other way around. You can certainly argue Haskins must learn Turners scheme and excel, but it doesn’t make the side untrue either. I think this is consistent with the message from Ron all off season and during the season, he must learn the system versus we want to build his strengths and create a system Haskins can do well in, or a compromise of both. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I'll say it was one of his best dink and dunk games in one sense.  The dink and dunk aspect of it was often 3-6 yards or so off the line of scrimmage versus screens right at the line of scrimmage and also it was one of his better games as for throwing in the flat outside the numbers -- he typically struggles with throws outside the numbers but had a good rhythm for it in that game.
 

 

The flat throw designs in the clip I thought were even designed to limit exposure of needed touch. I’m not savvy enough with RB route names,  but there are some that are more timing based and those the RB is getting to a spot to the sideline past the line of scrimmage. It seemed he was able to still throw with force on the RB routes available in that game is my point. 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I made this comment about Haskins before the draft which is the stuff he isn't good at, you can almost always find an exception.  For example he struggles with intermediate out routes but once inawhile, he will throw a beauty.  He struggles with throws in the flat outside the numbers but on occasion he is good at it and finds some rythmn. i'd guess his inconsistent footwork is why he is a streaky-up and down QB.  Arians in his book talks about the good QBs are consistent in part because their footwork is consistent.  
 

 

I would challenge you to find 7 QBs in the NFL that consistently throw intermediate out routes in the NFL. Intermediate we’re saying 8-20 yards? It’s just not a throw consistently used in the NFL today, totally based off my on the spot reflection. I will take my medicine if this is wrong. 
 

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

One takeaway is also I think he had games where he really flung it much deeper than that one?  I recall his Air-Yards number last year was good.  Or that game it ended well on average because there werren't really much straight screens right at the line of scrimmage?  So maybe what worked the best in this game for him is it was heavy on the short stuff-YAC. 
 

 

His short game is throwing a rope between 2 zone defenders or at a target posting up. Sooo different than what’s being asked of the QB in the Turner scheme, IMO. 
 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

The biggest misperception some have about Haskins IMO is because he has a strong arm he's good at stretching the field.  But he isn't IMO.  PFF showed that via stats before the draft. Mark Bullock who was a big Haskins fan before the draft, not sure where he is now about him, agrees he doesn't throw a good deep ball.

 

 

Very little to judge him on but I thought once KOC took over he showed great willingness to stretch a defense and a desire to make intermediate throws. He has a cannon and that’s combined with an ultra quick release. 
 

This year he played in an offense that values sinking and dunking, hard to hold that against him. 
 

With all that said, if it proves he’s a knucklehead off the field, it’s all good. Also,

I was trending in direction of bad with Haskins during the season. After watching Turner and Ron handle things I’m back to neutral.  

[SoCalSkins]

25 minutes ago, CapsSkins said:

Apparently Pat McAfee said on his show today something along the lines of "if the real story about why Haskins was benched gets released, it will be big” and he was alluding that he hears that a story may be coming out... 

 

Anybody listen to the show and hear that?

Does it involve the dead dog? 

 

1 minute ago, Thinking Skins said:

All I'm saying is that these things are going to be sound bytes for years to come when this is all over. This is on Zorn and Spurrier levels of incompetence. 

You were pretty high on Zorn. So maybe save the predictions because you don’t have a winning percentage when it comes to those?