Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: All I'm saying is that these things are going to be sound bytes for years to come when this is all over. This is on Zorn and Spurrier levels of incompetence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said: All I'm saying is that these things are going to be sound bytes for years to come when this is all over. This is on Zorn and Spurrier levels of incompetence. It's kind of ridiculous to compare lying/spinning to the media w/ Zorn & Spurrier's actual on-field disastrous-ness. If the team is winning and competing in the playoffs by 2021/2022 nobody will care about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thinking Skins Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, CapsSkins said: It's kind of ridiculous to compare lying/spinning to the media w/ Zorn & Spurrier's actual on-field disastrous-ness. If the team is winning and competing in the playoffs by 2021/2022 nobody will care about this. No, I'm talking about all the sound eff ups they had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Are we really now scrutinizing him to the point we're arguing over what he means by cutoff point all because he benched Haskins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapsSkins Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Just now, Thinking Skins said: No, I'm talking about all the sound eff ups they had. When I think about Zorn and Spurrier, I don't think about their media flubs. I think about Swinging Gate and Osaka, lol. Okay, okay - "Maroon and Black" is up there. 😂 But regardless, if the team starts winning Ron could pull a Jeff Toobin on the post-game Zoom conference for all I care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 5 minutes ago, Califan007 said: So you fall into the "only reason people are criticizing Rivera is because of their love for Haskins" camp? Well, for some people anyway? For me, designating Rivera's seemingly contradictory and confusing explanations as "semantics" removes any nuanced discussion about him as a coach, and declares what he's been saying as irrelevant. We end up keeping the extreme opposing views as the main discussion points, which rarely leads to anything worthwhile. I'm not saying that every person criticizing everything about Rivera is butthurt about Haskins. I'm saying a large contingent of those people just so happen to be people butthurt about Haskins. Personally, I'm just not really worried about what coaches say for the most part. Rivera certainly isn't the first nor will he be the last to offer head scratchers to the media. If we start hearing rumblings out of the locker room similar to what's going on in Dallas, I'd be more inclined to care a little bit more. In the last 10 months the dude has been dealt the Trent Williams and Dunbar situations, a crap roster, a project QB handpicked by the owner, Covid and cancer. I guess I'm just willing to give the guy a bit more rope than to start worrying about the message he's conveying to the media. If the message he's conveying to the team becomes an issue, I'll be all ears. But at this point, that's simply an assumption being made by folks who have other motives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scstand Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Allen needs to work on the turnovers to be sure lets see if he can clean that up over next couple weeks. For overall game performance though, I saw a lot of big time clutch plays on 3rd and 4th down. Converting 8/15 on 3rd and 2/2 on 4th. 10/17 is pretty ****ing insane. Definitely could get use to see that stat line each week. Don't think we saw that much when DH was in. I also saw clutch passes dropped in bucket with touch. Heck even that moon shot to Gibson coming out of flat was a thing of beauty even though the play itself didn't gain many yards. Why does it feel so much like twilight zone when I come in here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 7 minutes ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said: I'm not saying that every person criticizing everything about Rivera is butthurt about Haskins. I'm saying a large contingent of those people just so happen to be people butthurt about Haskins. Personally, I'm just not really worried about what coaches say for the most part. Rivera certainly isn't the first nor will he be the last to offer head scratchers to the media. If we start hearing rumblings out of the locker room similar to what's going on in Dallas, I'd be more inclined to care a little bit more. In the last 10 months the dude has been dealt the Trent Williams and Dunbar situations, a crap roster, a project QB handpicked by the owner, Covid and cancer. I guess I'm just willing to give the guy a bit more rope than to start worrying about the message he's conveying to the media. If the message he's conveying to the team becomes an issue, I'll be all ears. But at this point, that's simply an assumption being made by folks who have other motives. 1) Yeah, that's why I said "Well, for some people anyway?"...although saying a "large contingent" seems to indicate that you feel most criticism is rooted in little more than love for Haskins. That's rather dismissive in my eyes, and underscores my earlier point. 2) Me personally, I've never experienced a new coach have as many confusing and contradictory statements so early in their tenure as I've experienced with Rivera. I was actually motivated to see if this is how he was while coaching the Panthers but then ordered a pizza instead lol... 8 minutes ago, GOATFrerotte said: Are we really now scrutinizing him to the point we're arguing over what he means by cutoff point all because he benched Haskins? Add another example to the "You're just criticizing Rivera because you love Haskins" pile lol... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico926 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, GOATFrerotte said: I firmly believe we would have lost if Haskins was qb. He's the worst qb in the nfl and all his 3 and outs would have just gave the Giants more possessions. Fact is we lost to the 0-5 Giants with Allen at the helm running the Scott Turner "dink and dunk" offense. There is no disputing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, wit33 said: YAC? Didn’t see much YAC at all. Outside of Mcclaurin TD, which was aided by Haskins’ arm talent and safety appearing to not think the ball would get there as quick as it did and took a bad angle. lol, you made me rewatch it now and chart it, 7 YAC plays, among them 2 really nice ones from Peterson, 1 from Thompson and a TD from McLaurin. My main point is though its Haskins wheel house, either short throws without resulting YAC, or short throws that can become explosive because of YAC. In general, he's not that accurate typically when he had to throw the ball down the field. As i mentioned, he had three really nice throws that were impressive. It is weird for a righty Qb like him to be so much more accurate rolling to the left versus the right, but i liked that intermediate out route to McLaurin to the left. I don't think Haskins is a disaster. To me the best analogy I can think of is Keenum. they are different kind of players but I think they will have similar caliber careers. I don't see Haskins as a future bust, I more see him as just a guy who will bounce around the league, decent #2, marginal #1 type. Campbell, Ramsey type. 1 hour ago, wit33 said: I would challenge you to find 7 QBs in the NFL that consistently throw intermediate out routes in the NFL. Intermediate we’re saying 8-20 yards? It’s just not a throw consistently used in the NFL today, totally based off my on the spot reflection. I will take my medicine if this is wrong. Haskins is one of the worst at it because he's not good either with short out routes. I don't care how much anyone argues with me about it, I am rock solid in this opinion at least in my own mind because I saw the dude throw about 300 short out routes like that in camp. Keenum wasn't hot at it but much better than Haskins. Colt ironically was the best of the three -- too bad Colt doesn't do much else good. Haskins was wild. 1 hour ago, wit33 said: Very little to judge him on but I thought once KOC took over he showed great willingness to stretch a defense and a desire to make intermediate throws. He has a cannon and that’s combined with an ultra quick release. I don't think he has a cannon. He has a strong arm ala a Ramsey or Campbell. It's not a Mahomes or Josh Allen type arm, now they got cannons. We can't really debate this. I have my opinion from watching most of his Ohio State games, watching a ton of him in camp, and all of the games here. You are entitled to your take, I got mine. It's tough to argue with words about opinions that are formed visually. And the reason why I think he ends up just a guy at QB is for these reasons: A. Crappy accuracy with intermediate out routes. Inconsistent accuracy with intermediate in routes -- throws high. B. Inconsistent accuracy at best with short out routes in the flat C. Poor touch D. Throws a poor deep ball E. He doesn't step into his throws enough to showcase his arm F. Throws off of his backfoot too much G. His footwork gets screwed up when he has to turn his body to throw, when he's chased H. I buy the poor work habits hit that multiple sources have expressed I. His mobility in the pocket can be clunky J. Doesn't throw with anticipation well outside of his confort zone throws -- slants, digs, shallow crosses, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 This convo is getting sorta wild now. We're getting into semantics about whether one bad QB who was benched actually was told he had a cut-off point by the coach vs whether the other bad QB we have who's starting should be benched for sucking if the first one was. Or whether the first bad QB was benched not just for play but because of attitude and work ethic issues as well. Oh, and we have a 3rd bad QB who is barely back from almost losing a leg. I feel like it's probably safe to say that: Haskins isn't a long term answer Allen isn't a long term answer Smith isn't a long term answer Our future QB isn't on the team right now. Why are we twisting ourselves into knots over this? The Haskins benching is done and probably for good, regardless of the reasons and what Ron said in the past. Allen is what he thought he was...a mediocre QB and decent backup who can make some plays but is turnover-prone. Alex is an inspiring comeback story but simply isn't a good QB and isn't a good fit for this system anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOATFrerotte Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Califan007 said: Add another example to the "You're just criticizing Rivera because you love Haskins" pile lol... Well I hate to break it to you but it's mostly true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrypticVillain Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, mistertim said: Why are we twisting ourselves into knots over this? Because people get too emotionally attached to players and since some feel like Haskins didn't get a fair shot, they'll complain about it. You still have bammas complaining about RG3 and Cousins... So you KNOW they're going to have something to say about Haskins. At the end of the day though... In today's NFL, if this is on your scouting report: 24 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: A. Crappy accuracy with intermediate out routes. Inconsistent accuracy with intermediate in routes -- throws high. B. Inconsistent accuracy at best with short out routes in the flat C. Poor touch D. Throws a poor deep ball You can't play QB in this league and be successful. And it sucks because he did look better towards the end of the year. But I saw him play more like he did in the first three quarters of the Lions game instead of looking like the QB in the first half of the Giants game. He regressed, it is what it is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spearfeather Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 3 hours ago, pico926 said: Everyone knows this and to suggest that him throwing two TD's makes up for gifting the defense 14 points is well... you know the rest. Come on man. You can't be serious. I'm acknowledging that his turnovers cost us points. I'm also acknowledging his two TD's put us in a position to win the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrell Green Fan Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 hour ago, mistertim said: This convo is getting sorta wild now. We're getting into semantics about whether one bad QB who was benched actually was told he had a cut-off point by the coach vs whether the other bad QB we have who's starting should be benched for sucking if the first one was. Or whether the first bad QB was benched not just for play but because of attitude and work ethic issues as well. Oh, and we have a 3rd bad QB who is barely back from almost losing a leg. I feel like it's probably safe to say that: Haskins isn't a long term answer Allen isn't a long term answer Smith isn't a long term answer Our future QB isn't on the team right now. Why are we twisting ourselves into knots over this? The Haskins benching is done and probably for good, regardless of the reasons and what Ron said in the past. Allen is what he thought he was...a mediocre QB and decent backup who can make some plays but is turnover-prone. Alex is an inspiring comeback story but simply isn't a good QB and isn't a good fit for this system anyway. Exactly. All this parsing of every single word Ron has uttered is taking away from the real point. And that point is this team doesn't have a quarterback Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 lol. It’s year 1 under Rivera with a stable of bad QB’s that he can’t wait to erase from football existence with a draft pick. Nobody is ever going to treat his media crap this season in a way that makes them “sound bytes for years to come”. It will be a footnote in our history whether Rivera ever gets us the playoffs or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wit33 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 1 minute ago, ConnSKINS26 said: lol. It’s year 1 under Rivera with a stable of bad QB’s that he can’t wait to erase from football existence with a draft pick. Nobody is ever going to treat his media crap this season in a way that makes them “sound bytes for years to come”. It will be a footnote in our history whether Rivera ever gets us the playoffs or not. What percentage would you attach to the likelihood the team selects a future franchise QB next year?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalSkins Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 50 minutes ago, wit33 said: What percentage would you attach to the likelihood the team selects a future franchise QB next year?? Less than 5%. If we draft one in the first probably 95% or greater chance he is a bust and that’s the end of Ron’s tenure here in that scenario. I think he goes after Cam hard instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 2 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said: lol. It’s year 1 under Rivera with a stable of bad QB’s that he can’t wait to erase from football existence with a draft pick. Nobody is ever going to treat his media crap this season in a way that makes them “sound bytes for years to come”. It will be a footnote in our history whether Rivera ever gets us the playoffs or not. Right. The only way these become “sound bytes for years to come” is if Haskins actually ends up a top QB in the league. I see that being the only way anyone cares at all about this years from now. Heck, most people won’t care about this in two weeks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Mexican Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 2 hours ago, wit33 said: What percentage would you attach to the likelihood the team selects a future franchise QB next year?? 100% Ron may be a HC with managerial duties (at least on paper), but we all know who's really calling the shots. Cam is another one of those devise players with inconsistencies. Even if we get him, I'm guessing the FO goes for a new QB in the draft. Other than a HC change, that's the only thing that seems to revive any interest in the franchise. At the rate we're going in 2020 we could be picking #1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scstand Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 9 minutes ago, El Mexican said: At the rate we're going in 2020 we could be picking #1. Nah......as long as general EyeGasze is at helm, JETS are front runners on #1. If he's dealt with, jets win some games bettering our chances at it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurgeh Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 7 hours ago, SoCalSkins said: Less than 5%. If we draft one in the first probably 95% or greater chance he is a bust and that’s the end of Ron’s tenure here in that scenario. I think he goes after Cam hard instead. Why on earth would Cam want to come here? The chances of us winning anything next year are minute, he'd be playing for the worst owner in the league, behind one of the worst lines in the league and with one good receiver to throw to. Now sure if you gave him a mountain of cash he might think about it, but if he did turn up I'd give him 3 games tops before he got injured playing behind this OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Est.1974 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 13 hours ago, CapsSkins said: Apparently Pat McAfee said on his show today something along the lines of "if the real story about why Haskins was benched gets released, it will be big” and he was alluding that he hears that a story may be coming out... Anybody listen to the show and hear that? Rivera was committed to Haskins. Something significant changed that. Whether that was a complete drop off the cliff scenario with Haskins attitude and application we don’t know. Heck, it’s all gone very quiet, even from Haskins. There has to have been a major breach of trust involved, in my opinion. For new head coach Ron Rivera, naming Haskins the starter reminded him of a situation he was in with the Carolina Panthers when he was a rookie head coach. Rivera had to choose between Jimmy Clausen, Derek Anderson or rookie Cam Newton as his new starting quarterback. He ended up going with the former No. 1 overall pick, and it was a decision that eventually took him to the Super Bowl and won him AP NFL Coach of the Year twice. Rivera decided to ride with his youth, and it paid dividends. "I made a commitment 10 years ago to another young quarterback and just told him: 'Hey, you know what, I'm choosing you because I believe in you,'" Rivera said, via ESPN's John Keim. "That's really how I feel about Dwayne. He's lived up to his part of our conversation in January. Because of that, I'm living up to mine. "He deserves the opportunity. He's going to get my support. Hopefully we can ride it as long as I rode it with Cam. You want to be able to have that guy and have that guy in place." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 12 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said: lol. It’s year 1 under Rivera with a stable of bad QB’s that he can’t wait to erase from football existence with a draft pick. Nobody is ever going to treat his media crap this season in a way that makes them “sound bytes for years to come”. It will be a footnote in our history whether Rivera ever gets us the playoffs or not. Reminds me some of the Rex-Beck year, 2011 and a little of 2010. Where people again took the coach litertally. In that case in the mix it was Shanny praising Beck. The leaks that Kyle really liked Rex. The leaks the previous year about McNabb for his benching. Sheehan who knew Shanny well said Shanny told him privately it was just coach speak to build up confidence and coaches sometimes say things different publicly then what they mean. The net of it was they didn't love either QB and moved on the next year. And yeah the message felt mixed and messy in real time. Rivera ditto on this has some coach speak cooking on the QBs heck even with Kyle Allen as to his comment that he had "limited" success. Some hammered the Shannys for the comments about Beck or the drill the season before that they benched McNabb in part because some said Kyle was a Rex guy. Leaks might have been driven by justifying to Dan why his guy, McNabb, was being benched. Different rap, different story, but in a similar way rhetoric wise it felt messy. I think the reason why it is messy is they simply didn't feel like they had the right QB in house and its not the easy point to communicate delicately. When you don't have the right QB, and you got to deal with a Dan selection in the soup, it gets messy, comes with the turf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 3 hours ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said: Rivera was committed to Haskins. Something significant changed that. Whether that was a complete drop off the cliff scenario with Haskins attitude and application we don’t know. Heck, it’s all gone very quiet, even from Haskins. There has to have been a major breach of trust involved, in my opinion. According to Les Carpenter (and not just him), no mystery as to what happened. https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2020/10/08/dwayne-haskins-benched-washington/ Rivera’s benching of Haskins, the once-presumed quarterback of the future, after just four games was a surprise, given the seeming commitment the coach had made to playing Haskins the whole season. But inside the team’s practice facility, momentum for the move had been growing, a person with knowledge of the situation said, in part because Haskins had fallen into poor study and practice habits. The person said Haskins’s lack of preparation was hurting him in games, leading to overthrown passes and missed opportunities to hit open receivers. The concerns represented a departure from the effort Haskins had shown in winning the starting job during training camp, for which he had drawn praise from Rivera. Something seemed to happen to Haskins after he won the job, the person familiar with the situation said, and his work habits deteriorated. Another person who has seen Haskins at practice this season noticed Haskins being sloppy during pregame warmups, while Allen worked diligently in those same drills even though he was unlikely to play in the game. Players seemed to notice as well. The Washington Post reported Wednesday that one Washington player had pushed Haskins to work harder, pointing out that Alex Smith — who hasn’t been active on game days but was promoted to the backup job as part of this week’s quarterback switch — had been arriving at the facility earlier than Haskins and preparing better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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