FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Our OL was real bad (minus Moses) but I feel confident that Scherff and Roullier's average level of play is higher than that.

 

Giants OL catastrophe was not just pressure, it was how they were against the run.  The Steelers defense was living in Saquons face at the handoff.

 

Our OL was awful.  Their OL was awful.  Why compare and try and find differences between who is better when both were so bad it doesn't matter.

 

 

Unless i am forgettng I am pretty sure the gist of your point before the season when we debated this is you think the Redskins O line was average and we were too harsh on Christian.  I recall saying there were some who said they heard Christian didn't play with the intensity they'd like to see, and you questioned whether that was true.  Then I posted Keim saying it and you thanked me for that post. 

 

I am bringing this up because I do recall what solicited some of the debate was you not really thinking our O line wasn't that bad, if I recall correctly?  

 

So I brought up the Giants since they have historically (in recent years) have had a bad O line and said I think they've added some youth and better players to their O line and I think they potentially will be if anything above average.  And our O line is likely below average.   Will the Giants O line be above average based on game 1?  I can't say definitively one way or another.  Will the Redskins O line be bad as I thought it would be?  Can't definitively say one way or another.

 

But correct me if I am wrong but the overall point you are making now is more or less you wouldn't trade the Giants O line for ours because its equally bad.  If so, I think you are wrong and its not really even that close.  But will see. 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, Riggo#44 said:

 

So, question about the PFF grades, and I'm not bashing them per se, just trying to understand. The Giants just got gashed by the Steelers on the ground, giving up 149 yrds, and had 3 sacks. This is their DL and OLBs:

 

We had an dominating game, against a beat up line admittedly, everyone knows 8 sacks, 57 total yards rushing. And this is ours:

 

I'm curious how they came to this conclusion.

 

Don't know.  But if you deep deeper there is more from them.  The grades indicated that our DEs were much better than the Giants DEs in that game.  But the Giants interior was better.

 

But Ionnaidis got a better grade then both Allen and Paybe by the way.  The Giants secondary with the exception of Bradberry got really low grades.  Our secondary sans Apke got really good grades. 

[HTTRDynasty]

Can we honestly blame Dwayne for having poor footwork/mechanics for the rest of the game after what he saw from his OL on his first passing rep?  

 

 

 

The answer is yes, we can demand better.  But it's definitely understandable why he felt he needed to get the ball out as fast as humanly possible after this.

[Malapropismic Depository]

I wish we had better receivers, at least for the sake of knowing just how good Haskins really is, professionally.

I will say though, that I'm impressed with how he's performed with a poor O-Line.

[HigSkin]

Yikes!

 

 

[zCommander]

Just now, HigSkin said:

Yikes!

 

 

Not sure why yikes. We are not going to the playoffs this year. New coach with a 2nd year QB and whole lot of other young players. It will take time. It is also possible if Haskins doesn't work out then Ron is getting himself a different QB. 

[HigSkin]

Just now, zskins said:

 

Not sure why yikes. We are not going to the playoffs this year. New coach with a 2nd year QB and whole lot of other young players. It will take time. It is also possible if Haskins doesn't work out then Ron is getting himself a different QB. 

 

Yikes because he's saying next year.  One would hope getting better as the season went on but this makes me feel better.

 

 

[Riggo#44]

Haskins ability to read defense and make quick decisions are impressive, especially for someone so inexperienced.

[Malapropismic Depository]

5 minutes ago, zskins said:

 

Not sure why yikes. We are not going to the playoffs this year. New coach with a 2nd year QB and whole lot of other young players. It will take time. It is also possible if Haskins doesn't work out then Ron is getting himself a different QB. 

 

3 minutes ago, HigSkin said:

 

Yikes because he's saying next year.  One would hope getting better as the season went on but this makes me feel better.

 

 

I could be wrong, but there might be a couple other possible intentions for him saying that.

He could be talking down our team, so other teams take us lightly, and we take them by surprise.

Or maybe it's to motivate his players to rise to the challenge.

[zCommander]

1 minute ago, Malapropismic Depository said:

 

 

I could be wrong, but there might be a couple other possible intentions for him saying that.

He could be talking down our team, so other teams take us lightly, and we take them by surprise.

Or maybe it's to motivate his players to rise to the challenge.

 

Even if that was the case, but in reality it will take a year and the offseason to know how well your team is. Getting a new coach doesn't mean success that very same year, imo. If somehow we get to the playoffs this year than that would be a plus. I will be happy.

 

[HigSkin]

2 minutes ago, Riggo#44 said:

Haskins ability to read defense and make quick decisions are impressive, especially for someone so inexperienced.

Yup...

 

 

[FuriousD]

Not impressed with Haskins half-hearted attempt at play action on the throw to Sims.  The play was a success but so important to really "sell it" for PA to consistently work well..  Add to the list of things needing work.

[Skinsinparadise]

The more touch on the ball was one of my comments during the game.  His ball on some throws had so little arc to it, that it was hard for a receiver to get underneath them.  Cooley commented the same on a podcast.

 

 I am still not totally sold on Haskins being a franchise QB.  It's still hard for me to tell.  It wouldn't shock me if years from now, we are talking about him being like Ramsey and Campbell and we kept banking on potential from his flashes but it never came together.  It equally wouldn't surprise me that he's up there or a peg higher than Kirk, Alex and the rare competent QBs we've had here.  I recall the other young QB threads well, and for the most part early on there was optimism about them all, which faded over time.

 

At the moment, I like Haskins as a dude.  He has sneaky mobility.  I like his competitiveness. He is a gamer.  Strong arm.  Quick release.  My concerns are touch, deep ball accuracy, accuracy with throws around the numbers, footwork -- especially throwing on the move. 

 

I do agree with anyone who says he has it tough with this supporting cast.  I think of all young QBs, no one has it harder than this dude.  A porous O line.  Not much as for a weapons.  And the running game might be suspect, too.  That's a lot to put on any young QB's plate.

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

Not a great look for that Giants OL...

 

 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Unless i am forgettng I am pretty sure the gist of your point before the season when we debated this is you think the Redskins O line was average and we were too harsh on Christian. 

Yup, well, I had 2 points. 

 

I thought our OL was going to likely be average.  C - RG - RT were all solid to pretty good.  I thought Martin was a step down from Flowers, but shouldn't be too bad...but that was an awful game he played Week 1.  And I thought there wasn't much of an overall difference between Penn and Christian.  Christian's better reps last season were better than the best from Penn.  Penn's average rep quality was poor, and some stuff he simply didn't have the legs for anymore.  Speed rushers made him look silly.  There were some relief appearances from Christian where he came in and played better than Penn did in the same game.  Not talking great like Trent Williams here, but rather Christian had a few more high quality reps in pass pro than Penn did.

 

Second point was I did not see the Giants o-line as better than us, and definitely not better than average.  I think you and a few others were talking about the Giants o-line making a leap to good-great.  And I just didn't see it with their journeyman at C (now RT as well) and the declining play of their LG.

 

Turns out I was wrong twice.  It's just 1 game, but both OL's are far worse than I thought.

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I recall saying there were some who said they heard Christian didn't play with the intensity they'd like to see, and you questioned whether that was true.

Yup, it was news to me.

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Then I posted Keim saying it and you thanked me for that post. 

 

Of course.  Why wouldn't I?

 

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

But correct me if I am wrong but the overall point you are making now is more or less you wouldn't trade the Giants O line for ours because its equally bad.  If so, I think you are wrong and its not really even that close.  But will see. 

 

You're not wrong.  I think both o-lines have some serious issues.  It's hard to envision an o-line that run blocks worse than ours did in Game 1, yet the Giants accomplished that unsavory feat.

 

The Giants had when running to which side:

To the left, 2 carries for -1 yard

Inside, 6 carries for 5 yards

To the right, 8 carries for 3 yards

0 first downs picked up

 

We were only slightly better.  But still awful.

 

P.S.  I heard that the Dolphins rookie LT (Austin Jackson) had a pretty good 1st game against the Patriots.  There's something even more positive to be said for Ereck Flowers now.  I recall some times last season he bailed Penn (and he must have Christian) out of a failing block.  Quality OLineman makes things easier for the guys next to them.

 

Having both Christian and Martin next to each other is a disaster unless one (or both) start improving.

[HTTRDynasty]

7 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

P.S.  I heard that the Dolphins rookie LT (Austin Jackson) had a pretty good 1st game against the Patriots.  There's something even more positive to be said for Ereck Flowers now.  I recall some times last season he bailed Penn (and he must have Christian) out of a failing block.  Quality OLineman makes things easier for the guys next to them.

 

Having both Christian and Martin next to each other is a disaster unless one (or both) start improving.

 

On that note, I wonder how much playing next to Martin hurt Roullier's PFF grade Week 1.  He had some good moments from what I've seen.

 

 

 

I think we should call it quits on the Christian/Martin experience if they look as bad Week 2 as they did last week.  We risk our QB getting killed.

 

I would try the Charles/Schweitzer combo or go Charles/Roullier/Ismael.

[TheShredder]

17 minutes ago, FuriousD said:

Not impressed with Haskins half-hearted attempt at play action on the throw to Sims.  The play was a success but so important to really "sell it" for PA to consistently work well..  Add to the list of things needing work.

AGREED.  Look no further for an example than Goff.  His fakes are identical to his hand offs.

[TheShredder]

20 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

The more touch on the ball was one of my comments during the game.  His ball on some throws had so little arc to it, that it was hard for a receiver to get underneath them.  Cooley commented the same on a podcast.

His footwork is instinctive.  Throwing off the back foot on a line causes misses to be high.  If he has not matured enough to know when to calm down and take a little off the velocity and add some air, then his accuracy would need to be far better just to complete a strong majority of his attempts. One thing is clear, Haskins is a progressing work in progress.  There's no reason to consider bailing on him until the progression stops.

 

[KDawg]

Well, the Giants started a rookie at LT that didn’t have a preseason. And they went against one of the top 3 DLs in football... 

 

If I’m comparing notes and trying to figure who’s going to have a better season up front, the Giants make sense.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Second point was I did not see the Giants o-line as better than us, and definitely not better than average.  I think you and a few others were talking about the Giants o-line making a leap to good-great.  And I just didn't see it with their journeyman at C (now RT as well) and the declining play of their LG.

 

For the Giants I know I didn't say their O line would be great.  But good -- yeah.  I do like some of their young talent including ones who haven't played yet like Shane Lemieux.   I'd give them time, its a young O line with upside.  Sadly, I don't think our O line can be defined the same way as for the young with upside combination.  For example, Will Hernandez was a beast in college, Wes Martin not so much.  Andrew Thomas is a top 5 pick.   Zeitler is regarded as one of the best guards in the game.  Maybe the unit will under achieve.  Will see.    But I don't think too many teams wouldn't trade for their O line over ours. 

 

2 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

 

Second point was I did not see the Giants o-line as better than us, and definitely not better than average.  I think you and a few others were talking about the Giants o-line making a leap to good-great.  And I just didn't see it with their journeyman at C (now RT as well) and the declining play of their LG.

 

 

They got potentially a franchise LT.  Zeitler is typically very good.  Hernandez is a mauler but for some reason inconsistent but I'd take him easily over Martin.   Their C is so so.   RT is so so.

 

I would trade their O line for ours.  Moses is decent but nothing special.  I don't buy that the Giants right side of the line is weak just because Zeitler had a rare bad day.  Scherff will have a rare bad day, too.  There is a reason why LTs are paid the most of any position on the O line.   It's not just one of 5 positions on the line, its the top one.

 

2 hours ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

Of course.  Why wouldn't I?

 

I just mentioned that because I was explaining how I recalled it.  You seemed skeptical that someone would say that about Christian.  But you backed off when I showed it to you, which was cool.   But that's how I recall that we even debated Christain because there are so many debates here on so many topics so its hard for me to recall them all.  😀

 

But like I said, it all remains to be seen.  Maybe that was just an off game for Christian.  Maybe Thomas ends up a bust.  Who knows.  Will see how it plays out.  But to me i would easily trade the Giants O line for ours. 

 

As I said weeks back, S. Charles to me is a wildcard here.  I did like him before the draft albeit having concerns about his character. 

 

 

[DCranon21]

Sounds like Charles is back to practice. Over/under on what week he starts? I think it's imperative he starts sooner than later for Dwayne's sake. Wes Martin was brutal last Sunday. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 minutes ago, DCranon21 said:

Sounds like Charles is back to practice. Over/under on what week he starts? I think it's imperative he starts sooner than later for Dwayne's sake. Wes Martin was brutal last Sunday. 

 

He could also start at LT.  He doesn't have long arms like the typical stud LT but really quick feet.  I'd take him over Christian or Martin but obviously we won't know until it plays out. 

[Dark Acre]

Take 2 types of young QBs:  1) decent-to-good mechanics (at least for a rookie/2nd year player) but poor at reading defenses and decision making under pressure; 2) the opposite -- good at reading Ds and making decisions under fire but poor mechanics.  Historically, which type has panned out better in the long run?

[redskinss]

22 minutes ago, GothSkinsFan said:

Take 2 types of young QBs:  1) decent to good mechanics (at least for a rookie/2nd year player) but poor at reading defenses and decision making under pressure; 2) the opposite -- good at reading Ds and making decisions under fire but poor mechanics.  Historically, which type has panned out better in the long run?

I have no idea the answer to this question but my money would be on the latter.

[AlvinWaltonIsMyBoy]

Glad Charles is back to practice. Hoping we can catch a break or two and get another W this week.

 

I hope Haskins will settle down some this week. He didn’t turn the ball over last week, but he had plenty of “what the hell was that?” kinda throws.  I’ve seen him be less erratic, so hopefully just a little rusty.