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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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15 hours ago, PeterMP said:

I don't know if he'd sign it, but today I'd offer to tear up the last 2 years of his contract (so he has to finish this year with they pay he has).  Give him $8 million a year for 5 years with $15 million signing bonus and the next two years guaranteed.    That would make him if not the least non-rookie starting QB contracts one of them.  I think he's going to be an ok, but not great QB.  And if you can lock in an okay, but not great QB in long term on a reasonable deal, then you might be able to put a winning team around them.

 

And if you happen come up with a great QB, it isn't an awful amount to pay a backup, and you might be able to move Haskins.  It's a pretty low deal for a starting QB, but after the next 2 years if nobody thinks he's a starting QB, it would be more than he'd likely make as a backup.  And it gives him financial security in case of an injury or whatever.  He might believe in himself and laugh at it, but I'd raise it.


Love this! Was going to post something similar a few days ago. I think there’s something to this, but the QB free agency market must continue trend downward a bit more financially for the risk/reward to make sense. Right now, Haskins puts up a 25-30td season he’s almost guaranteed 25mil a season. 

 

6 hours ago, dc1 said:

I didn't know Alex Smith was also Steve Young! 
 

 

They both won a lot of games, but the comparison ends there (you made the comparison, not me). 

 

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Alex smith is 14 year vet who in his first year played 9 games throw 1 TD and 11 interceptions. He became a sold but mid tier QB.  I'm also glad we have him.
 

 

I agree with all of this. 
 

But, I care very little about stats like yours above to make a point and actually feels there’s close to zero value in doing so. 
 

Smith mentally in his first few years was incredibly weak and worried about perception and most QBs cave, especially when a high draft pick. Smith’s difficult journey his first few years contributed greatly to callousing his mind  later on to the outside distractions and just do him. That paired with Harbaugh led him to being a middle tier QB with legs (a critical factor, as all his teams are top running teams). He’s not a middle tier pocket QB. 
 

Haskins appears light years ahead of Smith from a mental and self esteem level in year two versus Smith in year two. Haskins also was given a huge boost with Rivera coming in as his coach, as Rivera is that dude when it comes to supporting his players and providing them all they need to succeed. 

 

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So, while no one is equating Haskins to a 14 year vet in real time, we can project and extrapolate based on what we have seen over the body and circumstances of his first 8 games.

 

I’m with you in hoping Haskins can achieve a similar level play to a Smith/Cousins during his rookie deal and think it’s possible. 

 

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We can keep things in perspective and enjoy the hopes of the stratosphere 😉

 


Okay, “stratosphere” was me engaging in a bit of hyperbole lol

 

Disclaimer: I’m pro Haskins. 

Edited by wit33
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3 minutes ago, wit33 said:


Love this! Was going to post something similar a few days ago. I think there’s something to this, but the QB free agency market must continue trend downward a bit more financially for the risk/reward to make sense. Right now, Haskins puts up a 25-30td season he’s almost guaranteed 25mil a season. 

 

Which is why there is zero chance he would sign a low ball extension at this point. Not a snowball in hells chance of that happening.

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7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Which is why there is zero chance he would sign a low ball extension at this point. Not a snowball in hells chance of that happening.


The poster made an extreme case offer, but I can see teams being more aggressive with rookie QBs early in their contracts for a win/win for both sides.

 

The trend of giving any top 20 type QB big money is already reversing. The QB market is changing.  

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1 minute ago, wit33 said:


The poster made an extreme case offer, but I can see teams being more aggressive with rookie QBs early in their contracts for a win/win for both sides.

 

The trend of giving any top 20 type QB big money is already reversing. The QB market is changing.  

 

If you have a highly drafted second year QB who take a below market deal in just his second year and first year as the starter - you have the wrong QB. Any QB who does not believe in himself enough at this stage to show he's a franchise level starter who should be in the high 20's/30+ million a year range is not the guy you want as your QB.

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1 minute ago, MartinC said:

 

If you have a highly drafted second year QB who take a below market deal in just his second year and first year as the starter - you have the wrong QB. Any QB who does not believe in himself enough at this stage to show he's a franchise level starter who should be in the high 20's/30+ million a year range is not the guy you want as your QB.


Yes, the market of the top 20 QB would have to continue more of a downward trend a bit more. 
 

Haskins has 8.5mil guaranteed after this season. What if Skin said we will give you a guaranteed contract of $50mil over 4 years, making just over 12mil per season. Or something like that, you know. Haskins would still be young when a free agent and team secured a top 20 guy at good price. 
 

Just some fun. Never has happened. 

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50 minutes ago, NeverSurrender said:

Agree; after watching a ton of highlights I cant find a play where Christian didn't get destroyed.  Wes Martin wasn't much better either.  We need to get Jeron out before he gets Dawyne Killed. It was atrocious, on multiple occasions he didn't even look like he was playing football.  You could tell Dwayne was being rushed from the left side heavily.  

 

 Saadiq Charles needs to get healthy fast.

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1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 

If you have a highly drafted second year QB who take a below market deal in just his second year and first year as the starter - you have the wrong QB. Any QB who does not believe in himself enough at this stage to show he's a franchise level starter who should be in the high 20's/30+ million a year range is not the guy you want as your QB.

 

The nearly equivalent thing happening baseball.  Teams are extending guys just starting their major league career or even in the minors to bigger longer term deals.  And those players, in some cases, are turning into real good players and the teams are benefiting.  There's no reason it can't work in football.  

 

You control Haskins for 2 more years after this.  There's good economic reasons to take the money now vs. waiting 3 more years to get the money.  Plus the issue of injury, and if he's really good and healthy, he'll easily get another contract that will pay him big money.  The idea that well if he'll sign such a contract he isn't a guy we want is an attitude that will hold you back.  People take money up front for a variety of reasons that have nothing to do with their confidence.

 

And Winston threw 33 TDs last year.  He's playing for $1.1 million this year.  Mariotta put up 26 TDs in 2016, and he's making $7.5 million.  And you can go further back and look at what happened to somebody like Brees.  Even if Haskins has a good year next year, he's still got another year to play before he's a free agent.  If we force him back that last year on the cheap and even if he's "good" but there are issues with OL and/or WR, it isn't hard to imagine he'll cost himself millions of dollars.  

 

Maybe I'm a little off about where the dollars have to be (though, there's no way I'd pay Haskins $20 million a year based on what he's shown.  I'd go looking for another QB before that, and I doubt IMO he'll ever be worth $20 million a year).  But the approach makes sense.

1 hour ago, wit33 said:

Just some fun. Never has happened. 

 

The equivalent idea in baseball for teams that have constrained budgets on any sort of large scale is relatively recent.  If NFL GMs aren't looking at what's happening in baseball and saying, hey that's working and might make sense with the constraints of the cap, their stupid.  I suspect we'll see it start to happen.  There is the greater injury risk in football than baseball, but with modern medicine and surgeries that's at least declined some.  I suspect you'll see the next wave of smart NFL GMs be trying to identify positions of relatively low risk of injury (where QBs are heavily protected) and start trying to get those players to sign longer term costs saving deals while they still have control.

 

There is a reason it is happening in baseball.

 

(Baseballs a little different because the teams have control longer so more incentive for the players to sign those kinds of contracts, but that has to be offset some by the increased injury risk in football.  I guess I don't know where the dollar figure is and that would depend on the player, but there is a point where it makes sense.)

Edited by PeterMP
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Wes Martin displays elite balance and coordination in managing to stay on his feet while falling backward.

 

The way he utilizes his patented “whirleybird” hand maneuver to stay upright should be taught in football textbooks.

 

You just don’t see line play like this every day.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by TrancesWithWolves
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We need to move on from the Christian experiment. He's not a gamer. Put Charles in. Ditto Wes Martin. Stick in any warm body. 

 

Daniel Jones with 2 picks and the loss. Lock looked ok while surrounded by elite weapons. Kyler Murray didn't look particularly special through the air, but is a special runner. I swear, if we could get Dwayne some weapons...Imagine Dwayne with the weapons they have in Cleveland...

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Just now, Anselmheifer said:

We need to move on from the Christian experiment. He's not a gamer. Put Charles in. Ditto Wes Martin. Stick in any warm body. 

 

Daniel Jones with 2 picks and the loss. Lock looked ok while surrounded by elite weapons. Kyler Murray didn't look particularly special through the air, but is a special runner. I swear, if we could get Dwayne some weapons...Imagine Dwayne with the weapons they have in Cleveland...

 

 

The experiment is over for me too.

 

Cut bait and give the next man up a chance. Dwayne will get killed if this continues.

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1 minute ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

The experiment is over for me too.

 

Cut bait and give the next man up a chance. Dwayne will get killed if this continues.

I wouldn't say killed, he has a quick enough release that he can make up for the holes in the line for now until Charles is ready et al. Give the line a few weeks to gel, remember they didn't really have an offseason nor a preseason as well.

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1 minute ago, ZarG3 said:

I wouldn't say killed, he has a quick enough release that he can make up for the holes in the line for now until Charles is ready et al. Give the line a few weeks to gel, remember they didn't really have an offseason nor a preseason as well.

 

 

Patience is a virtue I get it. I might be inclined to give Martin another half to prove himself knowing his job was on the line.

 

OTOH we have had years to evaluate Christian. He has never impressed me that he is anything more than a below average backup swing tackle. Certainly not the left tackle you need protecting a young qb.

 

All it takes is one missed blind side hit and our season is done.

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6 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

Patience is a virtue I get it. I might be inclined to give Martin another half to prove himself knowing his job was on the line.

 

OTOH we have had years to evaluate Christian. He has never impressed me that he is anything more than a below average backup swing tackle. Certainly not the left tackle you need protecting a young qb.

 

All it takes is one missed blind side hit and our season is done.

I agree with you on the Christian experiment shouldn't continue as soon as Charles is healthy. If Charles can fix his character concerns (looking at Rivera on that approach) and mature I can see him ala David Bakhtiari.

 

 I'm holding out hope though that Martin can be serviceable until we can either pluck a LG from another team, or draft one.

Edited by ZarG3
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1 hour ago, PeterMP said:

 

This is happening baseball.  Teams are extending guys just starting their major league career or even in the minors to bigger longer term deals.  And those players, in some cases, are turning into real good players and the teams are benefiting.  There's no reason it can't work in football.  

 

I don't follow baseball at all> are the guys being extended early in premium positions (pitcher?) or high draft picks?

 

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And Winston threw 33 TDs last year.  He's playing for $1.1 million this year.  Mariotta put up 26 TDs in 2016, and he's making $7.5 million. 

 

 

Winston also threw 30 interceptions and was coming off the end of his rookie deal - after the team took the 5th year option for just over $20M for last year. It took the team 5 years to decide if Winston was their guy - or not. Mariotta also was at the end of his rookie deal and coming off a 5th year option exercised by the team - his strong play in 2016 earned him $20M last season.

 

No way Winston or Mariotta would sign a lower than good starting QB deal after or during their second year IMO. No way any first round QB would. With the rookie wage scale a guy like Drew Lock or especially Minshew - now that might be a conversation, but they are on 4 year deals only, no 5th year option there.

 

It's way too early to be having any conversation about what a deal for Haskins looks like to replace or extend his rookie deal for me - he's had 8 starts.

 

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7 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

But apart from that we are golden ...

 

Yeah that's clearly atrocious.  I wonder about D. Penn.  He wasn't that bad last year.  Maybe Charles?  I don't know how long of a leash I'd give.  If Haskins is going to have a real shot, its obviously going to be a bear with what PFF grades as the worst left side of the O line in the NFL last week.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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39 minutes ago, TrancesWithWolves said:

 

 

Wes Martin displays elite balance and coordination in managing to stay on his feet while falling backward.

 

The way he utilizes his patented “whirleybird” hand maneuver to stay upright should be taught in football textbooks.

 

You just don’t see line play like this every day.

 

 

 

 

 


The amount of times I was crossed over in hoops provides me perspective and understanding. When you engage in competition, stuff happens. Keep it moving and take the W.

 

1 sack allowed and the oppositions Dline was not the story of the game, in part to a serviceable effort by all. 
 

Keep it moving, Wes! 

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Among others I had serious fears about the left side at the start of the season and the O line in general.  D line has been as good as advertised, that's awesome.  Sadly the O line was conversely as bad as any of our fears, maybe worse.  Granted just one game.  Will see. 

 

 

 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Among others I had serious fears about the left side at the start of the season and the O line in general.  D line has been as good as advertised, that's awesome.  Sadly the O line was conversely as bad as any of our fears, maybe worse.  Granted just one game.  Will see. 

 

 

 

 

Resigning Flowers should have been more of a priority (instead of wasting money on a guy like Sean Davis).  Flowers at least was a youngish o-line guard who punished people in run-blocking,.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Im hoping that the Eagles DL is good and our OL does better against lesser lines moving forward. Otherwise we are in trouble with the blindside being awful.

 

Josh Sweat had 4 sacks last year.  Malik Jackson is a decent albeit not elite DT.   Alas I think the left side of the O line will mostly have if anything tougher challenges ahead than that duo. 

Edited by Skinsinparadise
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  • TK changed the title to FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State
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