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FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State


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LOL, just got blocked by a haskins hater (only 2 followers) on twitter after a 10 minute debate, on whether or not haskins is a “diva piece of ****”. I asked for an example, and his example was haskins being a “diva piece of ****” by taking a selfie (newsflash, he was handed a phone by three fans that asked him to take a picture with them, oh man what a DIVAAAAAAA!!! How DARE he!!! Being polite to fans instead of taking a kneel down? such a diva. LOL. 
 

yeah, I believe i won that debate :D 

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3 minutes ago, mhd24 said:

 

Resigning Flowers should have been more of a priority (instead of wasting money on a guy like Sean Davis).  Flowers at least was a youngish o-line guard who punished people in run-blocking,.

 

 

 

I agree. We should have resigned Flowers. Honestly, I think that would have been a better investment than Scherff. Flowers is 2 years younger and Scherff is hurt every year. And there is no reason we had to choose. 

 

Also, Christian should get no leash. I've seen enough. It's been years. He just never had it. Time to pull the plug. As soon as Charles isn't limping, stick him in there. I'd bet almost anything he's way better as a rookie than Christian is as a 3rd year player. 

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24 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Im hoping that the Eagles DL is good and our OL does better against lesser lines moving forward. Otherwise we are in trouble with the blindside being awful.

 

Eagles don't have an edge rusher like Chandler Jones from the Cardinals. Him against Christian is an accident waiting to happen.

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49 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

But apart from that we are golden ...

Eveb Gandy-Golden if you will

15 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Eagles don't have an edge rusher like Chandler Jones from the Cardinals. Him against Christian is an accident waiting to happen.

 

Josh Sweat was the top edge rusher this week. I have a feeling we'll be facing the top rusher a lot.

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1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 

I don't follow baseball at all> are the guys being extended early in premium positions (pitcher?) or high draft picks?

 

 

Winston also threw 30 interception and was coming off the end of his rookie deal - after the team took the 5th option for just over $20M for last year. It took the team 5 years to decide if Winston was their guy - or not. Mariotta also was at the end of his rookie deal and coming off a 5th year option exercised by the team - his strong play in 2016 earned him $20M last season.

 

No way Winston or Mariotta would sign a lower than good starting QB deal after or during their second year IMO. No way any first round QB would. With the rookie wage scale a guy like Drew Lock or especially Minshew - now that might be a conversation, but they are on 4 year deals only, no 5th year option there.

 

It's way too early to be having any conversation about what a deal for Haskins looks like to replace or extend his rookie deal for me - he's had 8 starts.

 

 

Right, they both made money.  But in the end, they are on low value contracts.  And the fact that they made money was due to their contracts and when they performed.  Hawkins has a different contract and if he gets paid will depend on when and if he performs well.  If Hawkins has a good year next year, we have him for another year.  If he's bad the next year, (whether because he's bad or the offense around him falls apart or he gets hurt), it isn't hard to imagine that he'll end up taking a relatively low contract.  People aren't going to care about a good 2021 in 2023 if 2022 isn't good.

 

Obviously, if you have a guy that has a big option for the 5th year that would have to pay that person more.  You can't buy a guy that has a $20 year sitting in his contract out for $11 million.  But that isn't Haskins situation.  Haskins has 2 more years after this making about $2 million a year and then a year as an RFA.

 

Also Haskins isn't really a high draft pick for a QB.

 

To my knowledge, this was first done with Tim Anderson.  Tim Anderson was a mid first round pick.  In 2017, 99 MLB games into his career he signed a 6 year extension for ~25 million dollars.  Today he's the starting short stop and lead off hitter for the Chicago White Sox who have the best record in the AL.  He's 11th over all among position players for WAR and 3rd for short stops.  But only the 18th highest paid shortstops.

 

Because the White Sox were willing to gamble and pay him more for years where he wouldn't have made much, and he was willing to take the money sooner rather than wait the years to make more money.  It still isn't being done much.  There are a few young pitchers where there have been similar moves, but none of them have developed (yet) into top tier starters.

48 minutes ago, Nerm said:

I think there is a rule that players on rookie contracts can not be extended until after their third year is completed.

 

You are right.  Didn't know that.  Well, never mind.  (It is 3 for draft picks.)

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12 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

  Obviously, if you have a guy that has a big option for the 5th year that would have to pay that person more.  You can't buy a guy that has a $20 year sitting in his contract out for $11 million.  But that isn't Haskins situation.  Haskins has 2 more years after this making about $2 million a year and then a year as an RFA.

 

 

 

Haskins has a 5th year option as well as a first round pick. Not exactly sure how much - probably around the $15M mark.

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You aren’t tricking a young QB into signing a contract that he’ll be happy to outplay for years, and then just coasting...a QB will always win in a holdout situation if they’re actually good enough to effect the fortunes of the team they lead. It’s why they’re all overpaid in the first place, it’s the highest-leverage position in professional sports. 

Edited by ConnSKINS26
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43 minutes ago, MartinC said:

 

Eagles don't have an edge rusher like Chandler Jones from the Cardinals. Him against Christian is an accident waiting to happen.


Corey Peters and Jordan Phillips aren’t slouches inside, either.

 

Zach Allen, their other end, had a sack against SF as well.

 

This will be a good test. The gameplan has to be to get rid of the ball. Quick.

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Just now, Mr. Sinister said:

 

Your Celtics are going down, buddy.


Bring it. This is all gravy right now. But they are playing well as a unit. Love the way the team is put together. Hayward would help against you guys though. 
 

Oh, and Haskins not turning the ball over in the conditions that game was played (no protection to speak of) should be viewed very positively.

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7 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

You aren’t tricking a young QB into signing a contract that he’ll be happy to outplay for years, and then just coasting...a QB will always win in a holdout situation if they’re actually good enough to effect the fortunes of the team they lead. It’s why they’re all overpaid in the first place, it’s the highest-leverage position in professional sports. 


The league seems to be trending in direction of not overpaying for average. The formula would be for the average to above guy in a rookie deal. Obviously, a QB trending in direction of top 10 or elite wouldn’t do it. 

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7 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

You aren’t tricking a young QB into signing a contract that he’ll be happy to outplay for years, and then just coasting...a QB will always win in a holdout situation if they’re actually good enough to effect the fortunes of the team they lead. It’s why they’re all overpaid in the first place, it’s the highest-leverage position in professional sports. 

 

I think that is a key point.  I certainly understand the desire to sign a guy early and hope that it looks like a huge bargain in a couple of years.  However, you also have to factor in that if the player does become a franchise QB,  will they be content being paid much less than their peers?  Outside of Tom Brady (who has a wife that makes twice as much as him), not many players accept that.

 

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Dwayne Haskins got rid of the ball fast. Like, quicker-than-every-other-quarterback fast. Like, quicker-than-every-other-quarterback-since-Week-10-last-season fast. Haskins held the ball for 2.25 seconds per attempt, according to NFL Next Gen Stats, and the league average for Week 1 was 2.64. This is in stark contrast to last season, when Haskins’s 2.87-second average was ninth slowest in the league.

There are plenty of plausible explanations for the quick trigger: game plan, defensive pressure, rapid decision-making. It’s tempting to pick just one, but the truth is probably some combination of them. In Rivera’s mind, quick passes came with quick decisions — and nerves. Haskins sometimes forced throws to where a receiver was instead of where he was going to be. Yet Rivera remains unfazed because, as he has said since he was hired, the 22-year-old Haskins is young and growing.

“[The good decisions were] really pleasing,” the coach said. “Even though he may have missed a couple throws, those throws were headed where they were supposed to, to the right receivers.”

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Haskins showed some good things, chief among them the leadership qualities, a good scramble, getting the ball out quick, not turning the ball over (some close calls though), and engineering clutch scoring drives (of course they’re all arguably clutch).

 

I liked that virtually all of his throws were close, even though he was definitely off on too many. Lack of protection and separation are going to make life hard on him (not necessarily blaming those two things for the accuracy issues).  
 

Plenty to improve upon, but converting off turnovers, the late 1st half drive, improving as the game went on as well as the above points... that’s a nice feather in the cap.  
 

Going to the macro view, I don’t see Haskins having any of the common issues (as of yet) that often get young qbs in trouble.  Namely, arm talent, processing speed, decision-making, poise, recognizing and dealing with pressure, inability to take coaching, off field issues and work ethic.  
Of course, accuracy (and the usually attendant sound mechanics) needs to improve, need to become more consistent. However, that can certainly be improved with time/experience.  

In other words, he has shown the traits of a franchise level qb, IMO.  
 

Leadership and work ethic were the two main lingering question marks for me after last season.  While I’m not ready to call them strengths, or to check them off completely, I’m closer to neutral (ie not negative) on those points.  Those points are also trending the right direction and could potentially become major positives before the season is over.  


This was a good game for Haskins, IMO.  Not necessarily a good game in relation to a franchise qb, but a good one for him.  

Edited by skinny21
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Haskins was absolutely antsy and he didn’t play a great game. He led, though. Which is huge from a second year quarterback.

 

He also avoided taking sacks with that anxious quick trigger. There were a few plays he could have held it longer, but on the one he double clutched he got crushed. So... I’m sure he realized he had to read and go with quick hitters. 
 

The offensive scheme can help him by using more motion, misdirection, chips and schematic things to make the OL look more competent. 
 

But I’m having a hard time criticizing Haskins too harshly this week. Our line was not good. And Gibson made a lot out of nothing. 
 

Even a mild improvement in the OL would be significant for this team.

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35 minutes ago, KDawg said:

H

But I’m having a hard time criticizing Haskins too harshly this week. Our line was not good. And Gibson made a lot out of nothing. 
 

 

 

Just talking run game. It was disappointing that we didn't see much of this pass catching shock and awe (built up by the media) McKissic and Gibson 2 back set keeping the Eagles on their heels.  I get why they got rid of Peterson in that context.  Granted just one game.  Gibson looked decent in short spurts.  McKissic was a nonfactor.  But I'll just say if Haskins has to contend this season with a bad O line AND a bad running game, it will be a long season.  And if in converse Peterson has a monster season including in our head to head match up later in the season, that move we might end up regretting.  Though I was cool with at when it happened albeit I was surprised. 

 

Having said that the media did warn that the offense struggled to move the ball in practice.   They also said the left side of the line got blown up a lot.  I recall saying and it might have been on this thread that if the left side of the line is blown up so much how is Christian making so much progress as others have said?  The two points didn't add up. 

 

 

 

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Just read in the Washington Post that Haskins led the league in passing speed last Sunday. More specifically, he led it in quickest trigger. He got the ball away on average in 2.25 seconds. That's almost half a second faster than the league average. Given our line and Rivera's focus on fast decision making, that's a good step forward. Last year, he was among the worst in terms of how long he kept the ball in his hand.

6 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

Interesting stat here. Slowing down a bit should improve his accuracy. On the other hand, will Christian and Martin give him the time to slow down enough to make a difference?  I doubt it. 

 

 

Interesting spin here, but I remember for years, one of the first bits of praise that Brady or Marino got when people spoke about their strengths was their quick release and how fast they got the ball out. The writer above is trying hard to make Haskins' release sound like a negative.

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Peterson wasn’t released just because...

 

He was released to give him a shot to find a spot where he’d be the primary ball carrier/backfield option in the twilight of his career.

 

He was not going to be that here given the offense, and if he was, I can’t wrap my head around all the people that give full credit for a running game to the back... Peterson behind this line isn’t doing what he did for Detroit here. He’s also likely not seeing the touches he will in Detroit as the season rolls on. 

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21 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Peterson wasn’t released just because...

 

He was released to give him a shot to find a spot where he’d be the primary ball carrier/backfield option in the twilight of his career.

 

He was not going to be that here given the offense, and if he was, I can’t wrap my head around all the people that give full credit for a running game to the back... Peterson behind this line isn’t doing what he did for Detroit here. He’s also likely not seeing the touches he will in Detroit as the season rolls on. 

 

I get the point and later I might dig up the stat but Peterson had one of the better rates of breaking tackles and other measures that correlated with blocking that wasn't that hot.   It was posted at the time.  Peterson didn't have the red seas parted for him here.   I forgot what the metrics were but I recall multiple ones that showed he was even more impressive than he looked considering the run blocking for him wasn't that hot.

 

Like I said I was ok with letting him go but if the running game drags without him there is a chance we might appreciate what he did here even more.  He had a really big game last week. 

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  • TK changed the title to FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State
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