FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

This is a leap that so many people are making, that doesn't at all feel true or obvious to me.  The obvious disconnect is between the fans and the team itself on Haskins, not between Gruden and the FO.  The fanbase and Redskins media just do not understand what the team is doing with Haskins and can't seem to compute a patient approach with the kid.  Finlay's article is making his leap based on general comments that Gruden made during bull**** season, which is sports journalism malpractice.

 

It's never been clear that Jay had a problem with drafting Haskins.  Never.  That has been something that people have run away with based on rumors.  Every statement he's made about Haskins has been rational and stressing patience with him is absolutely the correct and appropriate approach to take with him.  In fact any clear-eyed look at Jay's job situation here made it obvious that the ONLY chance Jay had at keeping his job was for us to get him a quarterback in that draft.  Why the **** would he be against us getting him one?  It's a dumbass narrative.

 

Just to clarify anyone reading your post, you are quoting Finlay there not me.

 

As for Jay and Haskins.  If Jay had an issue with drafting a player I doubt it would come out publicly.  So rumor stuff would be all we'd have in just about any situation like this.    Based on rumors, what's been said includes:

 

A.  Jay didn't want to take Haskins at 15, not so much based on what he felt about Haskins (just about every beat guy has said that including John Keim who is pretty conservative and he repeated the point as recent as this week) but in a win now season he wanted a win now type player and didn't see that as Haskins. 

 

B.  Multiple beat guys said they heard that the Redskins had a 2nd round grade on him.  Not just Jay but Kyle, too.  They liked his college tape but didn't love it.   Maybe they were grading him based on whether he's pro ready right away?  Or again this rumor could be wrong.

 

C.  Multiple reporters have said that Jay liked the compromise made behind the scenes when they took Sweat who gave them a win now type player in the first round after all.

 

D.  Multiple have said they heard Jay-FO really likes what they've seen from Haskins tool wise  but just think he needs time.    So they are optimistic about his future.  And have no regrets now or something like that. 

 

Is all of it true?  You got me.  But I tend to believe things that Keim says and he converges on most of it.     Even if all of these narratives are true, they don't bother me.  It makes sense.  If Jay is in a win or bust season, i can see him not wanting a rookie QB without a lot of college reps and instead prefer one who can hit the ground running.   If they liked but weren't blown away by his college tape but have liked him a lot now that they have him in the building but want to give him more time -- all sounds OK with me.  So whether it was a bit of a soap opera (as some purport) or not behind the scenes leading to this pick -- I think they are in a good place now about it.  

 

[Going Commando]

On 9/25/2019 at 9:30 AM, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He's flirted with hinting that he's more than cool with not playing.  He hyped up multiple times having no issues being a backup and waiting his turn in Ohio State.  But to me the bigger hint was he multiple times said he wants to kill it when he does finally play and said it in the context it of waiting for that right time.  Also in that same conversation he talked about how he's still learning.   So it painted a picture to me of give me some time to better prepare myself which will improve my chances of success.  He didn't flat out say it that explicitly but that's the impression it gave me at least. 

 

He's smart and he knows what he wants to get out of football, and he know what's best for himself.  But in this case, he's not going to get what he wants.  It's not going to be like Ohio State.  We're a bad team and we don't have a JT Barrett in front of him that can win games and hold down the fort until he's ready to come in and star.

 

Dwayne is going to have to come in before he's ready.  It's a bad situation and he's just going to have to sink or swim.  It sucks, but we'll lose the locker room and half our coaching staff if we have to keep rolling with Case and he keeps killing us like he did Monday.

[CommDownMan]

1 hour ago, ntotoro said:

 

I'd suddenly come up with a sprained eye or something janky.

 

Watching the skins really does hurt. 

[Llevron]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

"No, I'm happy for those guys," Haskins said on Friday. "It's easy to look at the rookie class and be like, 'Rookies are playing, why am I not playing?' I want to be like Tom Brady and Drew Brees and that's something that doesn't happen overnight. Tom didn't play at first; Aaron Rodgers didn't play at first."

 

..."There's a difference between being patient and not working," he said. "I'm hungry. I want to play. As a competitor that's how you want to operate. But you want to be in the best position to succeed and that's what I'm waiting for. ... I feel good, I feel I can help the team win. I'm ready in case anything happens."

 

Dude says all the right things. As long as we support him he can be good. Honestly, with a prospect like this, if we fail with him I have not much hope left. Not because I like him so much, but because HE has the correct mindset and skill set. If we cant help him atleast be a decent starting QB we have failed him at that point. 

Also, I may actually **** myself the first time he throws a long TD to Scary Terry 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

I don't understand what there is to disagree with.

 

Backup QBs, especially young guys, usually run scout team. That's kind of the way it is and has to be.

 

But that doesn't mean he can't also be getting some reps with the ones from time to time. The two are not mutually exclusive. 

 

This being Keenums first year, it would be difficult to get Haskins snaps with the 1s - but with Col at startert, it’s a different story. 

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, volsmet said:

 

This being Keenums first year, it would be difficult to get Haskins snaps with the 1s - but with Col at startert, it’s a different story. 

 

I don't buy it. 

 

5 reps isn't hard to get. And it's at least familiarity. Where there's a will, there's a way. But I digress.

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

In fact any clear-eyed look at Jay's job situation here made it obvious that the ONLY chance Jay had at keeping his job was for us to get him a quarterback in that draft.  

 

 

Just now, KDawg said:

 

I don't buy it. 

 

5 reps isn't hard to get. And it's at least familiarity. Where there's a will, there's a way. But I digress.

 

Talk to an OC or a QB coach & I suspect you change your tune. There is nothing more intense or competitive. There are no humans who work harder to find ways to get the most out of each hour. There is no more scrutinized profession.   Each snap is important, you don’t throw a few away when you have a starter trying to get acclimated to the system. Daniel Jones was getting 5-10% of the snaps in a system Eli could run in his sleep. Peyton would shank a backup qb stepping in for one of his reps. It’s a different world.

 

[volsmet]

1 hour ago, RandyHolt said:

 

I agree. It seems rare to go from no injury, to faux goal line vault fail, to a walking boot.  I do think he is injured because its no big deal to proclaim Colt the starter as he was first on the depth chart, and Case had 5 turnovers. The injury does afford Haskins to be the backup without any fan fare. Keep Dan happy. Fan's fares do keep him happy, heh.

 

But hey, Redskins, and so bizarre injury situations go hand in hand with life in Raljon.

 

 

 

 

There isn’t any chance Case Keenum is in on some plan to fake an injury. You guys are crazy, but that’s one of the reasons I love the ES.  

[KDawg]

9 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

 

Talk to an OC or a QB coach & I suspect you change your tune. There is nothing more intense or competitive. There are no humans who work harder to find ways to get the most out of each hour. There is no more scrutinized profession.   Each snap is important, you don’t throw a few away when you have a starter trying to get acclimated to the system. Daniel Jones was getting 5-10% of the snaps in a system Eli could run in his sleep. Peyton would shank a backup qb stepping in for one of his reps. It’s a different world.

 

 

I’ll do ya one better... I’ve coached in it. Somehow I’ve never seen a team, in HS or college, not get its second or third team QB reps. 

 

The NFL is different. Sure. But I’ve also talked to more than a few NFL coaches. 

 

It can be done. The priority wasn’t put there. Fine. If Belichick was calling the organizational shots I’d be okay with it. But he’s not. 

[RandyHolt]

5 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

There isn’t any chance Case Keenum is in on some plan to fake an injury. You guys are crazy, but that’s one of the reasons I love the ES.  

 

Welp, something just seems a little fishy. Forced to guess, I suspect most would say its more likely that Colt is being rushed back (if even by mere days), vs. random luck Jay's starting QB was suddenly healthy the exact day his real starting QB was, seemingly out of no where, unable to go. 

 

[volsmet]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

 

I’ll do ya one better... I’ve coached in it. Somehow I’ve never seen a team, in HS or college, not get its second or third team QB reps. 

 

The NFL is different. Sure. But I’ve also talked to more than a few NFL coaches. 

 

It can be done. The priority wasn’t put there. Fine. If Belichick was calling the organizational shots I’d be okay with it. But he’s not. 

 

A priority to get a rookie snaps, with the first team? You know someone who has called plays and coached the position? I would love to hear how easy they think it is to get first team reps for rookies in their new system. I remember when Tavaris Jackson was drafted by the Vikings & they had the best QB coach on the planet, I’ll ask how easy it was to get him snaps during the season.

 

4 minutes ago, RandyHolt said:

 

Welp, something just seems a little fishy. Forced to guess, I suspect most would say its more likely that Colt is being rushed back (if even by mere days), vs. random luck Jay's starting QB was suddenly healthy the exact day his real starting QB was, seemingly out of no where, unable to go. 

 

 

 

There isn’t anything random about a qb being injured after what happened Monday night, there isn’t something random about an injury to a QBs on a team that always has injured QBs. You guys underestimate what it is to take a hit in the nfl, these guys are always banged up, nobody cares about what the fans think after a bad start on Monday night ... no one has put a second of thought into creating a narrative for the remaining 17 redskins fans. 

[megared]

18 minutes ago, volsmet said:

There is nothing more intense or competitive. There are no humans who work harder to find ways to get the most out of each hour.

 

In general, I'd agree. 

 

This organization?  No way.  They need the pressure of being down 2-3 scores in the 3rd Q in order to have urgency.  

[Boss_Hogg]

So Colt McCoy is QB1 if Keenum can't go. Something tells me he would be QB1 if Keenum is healthy too. 

 

Burn it all down Colt, throw 5 picks, fumble, get sacked, take a knee on 3rd and short, just blow it up.

 

Hopefully a huge ass beating by the giants sends Jay back to Trampa 

 

 

[megared]

As much as I'd like to see it blow up in Gruden's face, I truly hope Colt is ready, and bringing him back now doesn't expose him to further risk.  

[NewCliche21]

16 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

I’ll do ya one better... I’ve coached in it. Somehow I’ve never seen a team, in HS or college, not get its second or third team QB reps. 

 

The NFL is different. Sure. But I’ve also talked to more than a few NFL coaches. 

 

It can be done. The priority wasn’t put there. Fine. If Belichick was calling the organizational shots I’d be okay with it. But he’s not. 

 

The last sentences are the most important.  This thread is completely different if the person running the show has any credibility.  Incompetence still grossly impacts even the right decision.

It's like, "I think this is the answer, but the dumb kid in the class thinks it's the answer, so now I don't think it's the right answer." Vs. "I'm not sure if this is the right answer, but the smart kid thinks it is, so I'll go with it anyway."

There's really little confidence in the competence to make the right decisions when they're perceived to be unorthodox.

[volsmet]

1 minute ago, megared said:

 

In general, I'd agree. 

 

This organization?  No way.  They need the pressure of being down 2-3 scores in the 3rd Q in order to have urgency.  

 

Teams like NE tend not to value scout team reps, others do, we are an embarrassment, but getting Haskins 5 snaps a week...or a practice... isn’t going to change much. I bet Stidham gets nearly as many snaps as Brady in NE...it’s a different job with guys who have done it v guys in a new system. Unless the starter is Peyton Manning, he’s a beautiful psychopath.

 

Just now, NewCliche21 said:

 

The last sentences are the most important.  This thread is completely different if the person running the show has any credibility.  Incompetence still grossly impacts even the right decision.

It's like, "I think this is the answer, but the dumb kid in the class thinks it's the answer, so now I don't think it's the right answer." Vs. "I'm not sure if this is the right answer, but the smart kid thinks it is, so I'll go with it anyway."

There's really little confidence in the competence to make the right decisions when they're perceived to be unorthodox.

 

So, nothing Jay does is credible. Had he been giving Haskins snaps, that would be criticized more harshly. It’s an interesting world to make a living in.

[ExoDus84]

7 minutes ago, Boss_Hogg said:

Hopefully a huge ass beating by the giants sends Jay back to Trampa

 

More like send Jay to Oakland. I could see him joining his brothers staff when he's canned. 

[volsmet]

 

*We live in a world where real life humans think Washington is faking an injury to Keenum to alleviate the wrath of 17 fans. 

 

 

 

2 minutes ago, ExoDus84 said:

 

More like send Jay to Oakland. I could see him joining his brothers staff when he's canned. 

 

Jay may not want to work with his brother, his brother tried to give Jay a 3rd for Doctson last year but... Jay was denied the opportunity to pull on over on his brother. Instead, we lost Doctson for nothing, Bruce Allen style.

 

[NewCliche21]

5 minutes ago, volsmet said:

So, nothing Jay does is credible. Had he been giving Haskins snaps, that would be criticized more harshly. It’s an interesting world to make a living in.

 

Yes to the former; the latter is impacted by the former.  If he has a bad record, then you don't trust his decision-making abilities, so his decisions have less credibility.

If he did what someone with high credibility did, then he would be criticized less harshly, but he doesn't have an impeccable record to buffer the poor outcome. 

Lose Week 17 when you're 13-2?  Meh, ya gotta lose some time.

Lose Week 17 when you're 2-13?  W. T. F.

[megared]

3 minutes ago, volsmet said:

 

Teams like NE tend not to value scout team reps, others do, we are an embarrassment, but getting Haskins 5 snaps a week...or a practice... isn’t going to change much. I bet Stidham gets nearly as many snaps as Brady in NE...it’s a different job with guys who have done it v guys in a new system. Unless the starter is Peyton Manning, he’s a beautiful psychopath.

 

 

I just don't understand what Jay's rationale is...unless he's tired of this mess himself, and is looking forward to a free year of salary.  The one thing he could do to save his job is prepare Haskins to play, and have him play well.  There's no other path. 

 

Nobody is as enamored with McCoy as he is. 

Keenum is Keenum.  

 

Maybe it's my fault for assuming Jay had a strategy here...

[profusion]

No need to overreact based on one week of Daniel Jones and Gardner Minshew. Opponents are going to have adequate film on those guys in a couple weeks, and those fairy tales will come crashing down.

 

I think Jay has done the right thing with Haskins, so far. Maybe the situation changes later this season.

[KDawg]

1 minute ago, megared said:

 

I just don't understand what Jay's rationale is...unless he's tired of this mess himself, and is looking forward to a free year of salary.  The one thing he could do to save his job is prepare Haskins to play, and have him play well.  There's no other path. 

 

Nobody is as enamored with McCoy as he is. 

Keenum is Keenum.  

 

Maybe it's my fault for assuming Jay had a strategy here...

 

There are a ton of variables at play, though.

 

Haskins could be awful. And Jay doesn't want him anywhere near the game.

 

Haskins could be doing exactly what Jay thinks is productive: Scout team reps.

 

Haskins could be working on physical skills as the scout team QB and Jay doesn't think he's ready for snaps with the first team.

 

Haskins could be working on reading defenses with the scout team and Jay doesn't feel the need to toss him in with the 1s yet.

 

There's so many different reasons why it could be going down the way it is. Many I didn't even list. 

 

I don't like the strategy simply because I don't think McCoy or Keenum are the long term answer and I'd give some reps to Haskins to make sure he was ready. But I'm sure Jay has his reasons.

[volsmet]

7 minutes ago, NewCliche21 said:

 

Yes to the former; the latter is impacted by the former.  If he has a bad record, then you don't trust his decision-making abilities, so his decisions have less credibility.

If he did what someone with high credibility did, then he would be criticized less harshly, but he doesn't have an impeccable record to buffer the poor outcome. 

Lose Week 17 when you're 13-2?  Meh, ya gotta lose some time.

Lose Week 17 when you're 2-13?  W. T. F.

 

So, what’s to talk about, if nothing he does is right. 

 

Plenty of great coaches haven’t given first team reps to rookie QBs. 

 

 

[sportjunkie07]

I was on the sit haskins for a year side of things early on. 

 

But with performances like keenum had against the bears, it makes me wonder if we might be better off playing haskins. 

 

I have questions regarding haskins maturity. I think he has a ways to go not concerning everything mental in the nfl. 

 

The biggest problem imo is the coaching. 

 

I dont think they did a good job regarding keenum vs. The bears defense. I don't think theyve done a good job with haskins. 

 

Gruden is pretty straightforward concerning players and I don't think he has confidence in haskins nor the desire to make him improve into a starting nfl qb... it doesn't align with Grudens goals. 

 

We should've never drafted a qb with a coach on the rocks. 

 

When gruden gets fired this year well have to find a coach who wants to develop haskins instead of choosing his own guy. That's going to be a problem. 

[volsmet]

8 minutes ago, megared said:

 

I just don't understand what Jay's rationale is...unless he's tired of this mess himself, and is looking forward to a free year of salary.  The one thing he could do to save his job is prepare Haskins to play, and have him play well.  There's no other path. 

 

Nobody is as enamored with McCoy as he is. 

Keenum is Keenum.  

 

Maybe it's my fault for assuming Jay had a strategy here...

 

His rationale for not starting Haskins or for not getting him a 5 reps in practice? 

 

Gruden is arrogant, he thinks his team will score on 75% of their drives if the QB gets the ball where he wants it to go. He, like many, will give a QB a failing grade on a play that ends up as a TD if they missed an open read that should have been the priority. Andy Reid used to be the same way. Gruden cares about one thing, getting the ball where he wants it to go when he wants it to get there — literally, nothing else. He thinks Colt is the best option, not because anyone else thinks he’s better than Keenum, but because he sees Colt as an extension of himself when he’s in the game & the playbook is deepest with Colt. It’s Jay’s job to lose, he just wants to see his vision put on the field ... ball out on time, where he wants. That’s it. Haskins getting snaps makes it less likely Keenum will do it. Haskins can’t do it yet. 

 

This is his one opportunity to live out his dream, he didn’t love Rg, he lost his QBs last year, he just wants a guy he trusts to run his scheme ... it’s not crazy, it’s what he’s worked for. 

12 minutes ago, profusion said:

No need to overreact based on one week of Daniel Jones and Gardner Minshew. Opponents are going to have adequate film on those guys in a couple weeks, and those fairy tales will come crashing down.

 

I think Jay has done the right thing with Haskins, so far. Maybe the situation changes later this season.

 

Recovering from the hits & chaos of being a starter is tough ... bye weeks are a big deal for many reasons, we should play DH & give him bye weeks between each start, but, I digress, for now.