RWJ Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 No to Haskins at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Llevron said: Yea I think what you are missing is context. There is a lot more good he does that Haskins doesn't have the savvy to do yet. Football IQ to not take a sac in certain instances. The football IQ to not dick around with taking a knee and almost get your squad into a fight at the end of a game you won. The football IQ to maybe or maybe not take the ball with you forcing the refs to stop the clock. The most obvious thing should have been coming back down 14 against the Steelers. Its takes savvy, experience and patience to do that. None of that resides within Haskins. He could have put up similar numbers, but he wouldn't have lead the same way and that makes s difference. Numbers mean so little for a QB. Its sad to have to keep saying numbers need context in this argument and the cousins one like its some foreign concept. So when they came back from 17 against the Eagles, what was that...luck? Or does that argument only work when you are using it to prop up the other guy because the Steelers are a better team than the Eagles? I understand that numbers need context. Like the team's record. Just like in 2018, outside of maybe 2 games out of the 7 he's appeared in, the team is winning in spite of Alex, not because of him. I am far from a Haskins apologist, but football IQ, leadership qualities, patience, etc. being used as a knock against a guy who has yet to start in 16 games (who was also voted a captain by his teammates) seems unfair. Alex is better than Haskins. But it ain't by much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 All I have to say is what a bummer it would be to go on this run, and have it go to crap, by having to start Haskins down the stretch. We'll end up with a middling record and draft choice, with no playoff spot to enjoy for a moment. I get where DJHJR86 is coming from, in the respect that Alex has been quite pedestrian and without the 2020 Skins D, we'd be worried about how high of a draft pick we can get right now vs. making the playoffs. That said, I take Alex Smith all day, every day, on a bum leg over Dwayne Haskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zCommander Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 At this point Haskins is 1st round bust. He is going to to go the way of JaMarcus Russell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Just now, BatteredFanSyndrome said: That said, I take Alex Smith all day, every day, on a bum leg over Dwayne Haskins. I would too. I'm just baffled at the people who think we have the starter for next year already on the roster. Because I don't think we do. The way this team has responded to Rivera, especially the young players, tells me that they aren't as far off as previously thought. Can you imagine what this team would do with decent quarterback play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wunderhill Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 I think the biggest difference between Haskins and Smith is that the team feels more confident in Alex and he motivates them to play harder even when he's struggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, Llevron said: Yea I think what you are missing is context. There is a lot more good he does that Haskins doesn't have the savvy to do yet. Football IQ to not take a sac in certain instances. The football IQ to not dick around with taking a knee and almost get your squad into a fight at the end of a game you won. The football IQ to maybe or maybe not take the ball with you forcing the refs to stop the clock. The most obvious thing should have been coming back down 14 against the Steelers. Its takes savvy, experience and patience to do that. None of that resides within Haskins. He could have put up similar numbers, but he wouldn't have lead the same way and that makes s difference. Numbers mean so little for a QB. Its sad to have to keep saying numbers need context in this argument and the cousins one like its some foreign concept. I think the biggest thing that you didn’t even mention: if the team doesn’t believe in you, regardless of numbers, and they think you’re going to let them down... the team doesn’t play as well. There is no hard data to look at. It’s not empirical. I’m sure it could be explained psychologically... but if your team doesn’t believe, you can’t achieve ****. The 2000 Ravens won because of their D, but if they didn’t think Dilfer would at least make it so the D gave them a chance to win it, they wouldn’t have won games and the D would probably have played worse. Same with Manning’s Broncos. Ditto this team. And, to be honest, RG3 year one is an example, too. The guys believed in the first year. Not so much the second. Look at Jackson last year. Not as much this year. Look at the Chiefs in every game they’ve fallen big in... even when Mahomes wasn’t playing well... they knew Mahomes would give them a chance and they all played like it. The way the play picked up when Haskins went to the bench, and the way the team played with Haskins at the helm (including body language) has been different than with Allen but especially Smith. There’s something to be said about that. Its clear that the guys don’t believe in Haskins in my opinion. And that’s more damning than anything else for his career in DC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mistertim Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: So when they came back from 17 against the Eagles, what was that...luck? Or does that argument only work when you are using it to prop up the other guy because the Steelers are a better team than the Eagles? I understand that numbers need context. Like the team's record. Just like in 2018, outside of maybe 2 games out of the 7 he's appeared in, the team is winning in spite of Alex, not because of him. I am far from a Haskins apologist, but football IQ, leadership qualities, patience, etc. being used as a knock against a guy who has yet to start in 16 games (who was also voted a captain by his teammates) seems unfair. Alex is better than Haskins. But it ain't by much. I think Alex is light years ahead of Haskins from a mental standpoint. But unfortunately Alex's physical limitations, age, and injury history prevent him from moving beyond being anything more than a mediocre QB IMO. The offense runs more smoothly with Alex in there (even if it isn't moving the ball well) but I also think that sometimes we let the amazing feat of him even playing again overshadow the fact that he's really nothing special back there from a pure playing standpoint. I really hope we can find the answer at QB within the next year or two. Because we have a young and ferocious defensive unit and with a few upgrades (WR, TE, OL) we could also have a really good young offensive core. It would be awful to waste all that potential over the next 5+ years by having crappy to mediocre QB play that never helps us get over that "decent but not great" hump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprcr Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Indeed. Reasonably QB play and a schedule against the NFC East- would have generated a 10 win season this year. Haskins isnt the answer, Smith I "like" but isnt the answer beyond maybe 1 year. My sense is you sign any professional QB vet. I dont love the idea of Prescott, but he's light years better than what we have on the roster at the moment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: So when they came back from 17 against the Eagles, what was that...luck? Or does that argument only work when you are using it to prop up the other guy because the Steelers are a better team than the Eagles? I understand that numbers need context. Like the team's record. Just like in 2018, outside of maybe 2 games out of the 7 he's appeared in, the team is winning in spite of Alex, not because of him. I am far from a Haskins apologist, but football IQ, leadership qualities, patience, etc. being used as a knock against a guy who has yet to start in 16 games (who was also voted a captain by his teammates) seems unfair. Alex is better than Haskins. But it ain't by much. It was week one and the team believed anything was possible. There’s a big mental thing at play here that I think you may be discounting a little bit. 1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said: I would too. I'm just baffled at the people who think we have the starter for next year already on the roster. Because I don't think we do. The way this team has responded to Rivera, especially the young players, tells me that they aren't as far off as previously thought. Can you imagine what this team would do with decent quarterback play? I don’t think people want Smith or Allen to be the QB necessarily. It’s more like “well, unless we do something astronomically stupid... these guys and a mid round QB are going to be our options” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: I am far from a Haskins apologist, but football IQ, leadership qualities, patience, etc. being used as a knock against a guy who has yet to start in 16 games (who was also voted a captain by his teammates) seems unfair. Alex is better than Haskins. But it ain't by much. So your argument is what? This is literally what i 7 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: So when they came back from 17 against the Eagles, what was that...luck? Or does that argument only work when you are using it to prop up the other guy because the Steelers are a better team than the Eagles? The Steelers are a much better team then the eagles. Especially when you are comparing the Eagles at the start of this season to the undefeated Steelers at 11-0. Both comebacks are impressive. If you go back and look you will see I was impressed by Haskins comeback then. More so than I was with Smith, actually. So again, not sure what your argument is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 Just now, sprcr said: Indeed. Reasonably QB play and a schedule against the NFC East- would have generated a 10 win season this year. Haskins isnt the answer, Smith I "like" but isnt the answer beyond maybe 1 year. My sense is you sign any professional QB vet. I dont love the idea of Prescott, but he's light years better than what we have on the roster at the moment. Problem with Prescott is the cap space he’d eat. I’d be... more on board... with signing him for that if he wasn’t coming off of a massive injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BatteredFanSyndrome Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said: The way this team has responded to Rivera, especially the young players, tells me that they aren't as far off as previously thought. Can you imagine what this team would do with decent quarterback play? I agree on that front, but we only have but so many options. I can see a scenario where we draft a QB that plays behind Alex next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprcr Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 We have a QB coming off a massive injury who is expensive and Old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Llevron said: So again, not sure what your argument is. My argument is that Smith is better than Haskins but it isn't by as wide a margin as you believe it to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bakedtater1 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 11 minutes ago, zskins said: At this point Haskins is 1st round bust. He is going to to go the way of JaMarcus Russell. I wanted to say this exact same thing but I said something a little different something along the lines of him being a bust Haskins that is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justice98 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 I was disappointed to basically see the same guy that got benched. Or at least, not enough of a different guy. Even the throw that folks say Sims shoulda caught, it was still needlessly more difficult a catch than it needed to be. Clean pocket, make a good throw and it's first down. About the only asset he brings that intrigues me is the big arm that could open up the downfield passing game. Everything else about him is real "meh". He could last a nice long time as a backup QB. Franchise guy to build around, no thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 6 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: I would too. I'm just baffled at the people who think we have the starter for next year already on the roster. Because I don't think we do. You are arguing with yourself lol 7 minutes ago, KDawg said: I think the biggest thing that you didn’t even mention: if the team doesn’t believe in you, regardless of numbers, and they think you’re going to let them down... the team doesn’t play as well. There is no hard data to look at. It’s not empirical. I’m sure it could be explained psychologically... but if your team doesn’t believe, you can’t achieve ****. The way the play picked up when Haskins went to the bench, and the way the team played with Haskins at the helm (including body language) has been different than with Allen but especially Smith. There’s something to be said about that. Its clear that the guys don’t believe in Haskins in my opinion. And that’s more damning than anything else for his career in DC. Without a doubt. I find it hard to quantify that as well as you do, but its a visible difference in just the way the attitudes on the sideline are. Easiest example in my mind is the way Chase barks on the sideline now versus week 3-4 ish. I dont really know how to point it out, but I understand exactly where you are coming from here. 2 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: My argument is that Smith is better than Haskins but it isn't by as wide a margin as you believe it to be. Please tell me how wide a margin I believe it to be again oh Llevron reader. 12 minutes ago, KDawg said: I don’t think people want Smith or Allen to be the QB necessarily. It’s more like “well, unless we do something astronomically stupid... these guys and a mid round QB are going to be our options” Perfect time to ask you about this - no other vets you like? Had a buddy come to me about a 2 year deal for Stafford and it made me go hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeken24 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 After watching the replay again, I think DH did ok. He had the one over-throw as a result of that bad habit of throwing the ball with his arm and not stepping into it. He'll see it. Hopefully, he works his way through that. Other than that, he was good. Didn't try to do too much. I can't say I'm confident that he's ready yet, but he did ok. I think Alex leaving the game caused some panic. You couple that with the 49ers seeming to gain momentum after they score to make it a 8 point game. Then the bad series with Haskins in the game (the crazy screen play attempt and the over throw) caused us to panic even more. And we know when we panic, we tend to blame somebody. Again, all in all, DH had one bad throw. I think at this point, I expect one or two inaccurate throws from Haskins until he gets that corrected. Otherwise it doesn't bode well for him since this offense is predicated on the underneath/crossing routes (get the ball out of your hands and let the skill players do their thing). Work it out DH. I admit, I feel more confident with Alex in the game. Especially since the players feel that way. Stop at 5 seconds. WTF is this. Linemen are 7 yards behind the line (?) Cam is running wide open and Payton is not even looking. Bad play call? Or bad translation delivered in the huddle? IDK weirdplay.mp4 badhabit.mp4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, Llevron said: Easiest example in my mind is the way Chase barks on the sideline now versus week 3-4 ish. I dont really know how to point it out, but I understand exactly where you are coming from here. It probably has something to do with the fact that Chase Young was out for weeks 3 and 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradeTheBeal! Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 I believe a full week of reps/gameplan as the starter could result in a pretty good outcome for young Mr Haskins against the Seahawks. Not easy to be optimistic but I choose to do so anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: It probably has something to do with the fact that Chase Young was out for weeks 3 and 4. Aww **** you did the google thing again. You are really getting to the heart of it now lol. I cant believe I wasn't taking you seriously until this post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJHJR86 Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 18 minutes ago, TryTheBeal! said: I believe a full week of reps/gameplan as the starter could result in a pretty good outcome for young Mr Haskins against the Seahawks. Not easy to be optimistic but I choose to do so anyway. The Giants beat them with Colt McCoy. I do think our defensive line will be able to contain Wilson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 3 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said: The Giants beat them with Colt McCoy. I do think our defensive line with be able to contain Wilson. Based on yesterday's game...I think McCoy is better then Jones right now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkMissoula Posted December 14, 2020 Share Posted December 14, 2020 38 minutes ago, zskins said: At this point Haskins is 1st round bust. He is going to to go the way of JaMarcus Russell. Byron Leftwich seems like a better comp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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