FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

[HTTRDynasty]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I like the Orlovsky posts on Haskins.  And all the positive vibes about Haskins this off season is putting me in a really good mood about him and the season coming up.

 

Though I wish Orlovsky wasn't also selling Daniel Jones on twitter, too. 🤨  I hate the Giants. 

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, he's not wrong here about Jones.  Jones was very good against man coverage, and his accuracy has never been a problem.  It's zone coverage he really struggles against,  which is an indictment on how well he can read coverages.  And obviously, the turnover-worthy plays were his biggest issue last year.

[Llevron]

Just now, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I mean, he's not wrong here about Jones.  Jones was very good against man coverage, and his accuracy has never been a problem.  It's zone coverage he really struggles against,  which is an indictment on how well he can read coverages.  And obviously, the turnover-worthy plays were his biggest issue last year.

 

Realistically speaking I dont think fumbles are something he can keep up at that rate forever. Maybe he will do us a favor and keep it up. But if not thats half his turnovers right there isnt it?

[GhostofAlvinWalton]

fumblers, they gonna fumble...

 

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

I feel like Haskins is either going to go ALL Pro this season or complete bust, no in between for this kid. Basing this on nothing more than a gut feeling .

[HTTRDynasty]

8 minutes ago, Llevron said:

 

Realistically speaking I dont think fumbles are something he can keep up at that rate forever. Maybe he will do us a favor and keep it up. But if not thats half his turnovers right there isnt it?

 

Carson Wentz has been top 10 in QB fumbles every year since he's been in the league.  They're nowhere near as easy to fix as most Giants fans seem to think.

 

And I said "turnover-worthy" plays for a reason.  He had a number of passes that should have been intercepted, but were dropped.

[Anselmheifer]

10 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

I wonder what he would have looked like with a competent OL and receiving options. I think he has a high ceiling if we can protect him and get some weapons. Still need a TE1 and a WR2, and a LT and RT. That's a lot of needs, unless AGG and Saahdiq Charles really pan out quickly. 

[HTTRDynasty]

28 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I wonder what he would have looked like with a competent OL and receiving options. I think he has a high ceiling if we can protect him and get some weapons. Still need a TE1 and a WR2, and a LT and RT. That's a lot of needs, unless AGG and Saahdiq Charles really pan out quickly. 

 

I think we're set at RT if Cornelius Lucas starts, and I like Harmon at WR2, especially with the chemistry that he and Dwayne have developed.

 

Agreed we badly need a starting caliber TE1 and LT.  I'd add LG to that list.  We do have potential at all of these positions at least.

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

I mean, he's not wrong here about Jones.  Jones was very good against man coverage, and his accuracy has never been a problem.  It's zone coverage he really struggles against,  which is an indictment on how well he can read coverages.  And obviously, the turnover-worthy plays were his biggest issue last year.

 

He went beyond that point and said Giants fans should be excited about Daniel Jones' future.   Not saying he's wrong on that -- I don't know.  But as I've posted on this thread before I got something vested on Jones not working out.  Plus I grew up hating the Giants, still do. 😀

[HTTRDynasty]

Just now, Skinsinparadise said:

 

He went beyond that point and said Giants fans should be excited about Daniel Jones' future.   Not saying he's wrong on that -- I don't know.  But as I've posted on this thread before I got something vested on Jones not working out.  Plus I grew up hating the Giants, still do. 😀

 

They should be excited, mostly because they were able to move on from Eli with a seemingly competent QB.  But I bet they're not as excited as I am that Mara was too stupid/racist (w/e the reason) to listen to his former HC and draft Mahomes. 😂

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

9 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

They should be excited, mostly because they were able to move on from Eli with a seemingly competent QB.  But I bet they're not as excited as I am that Mara was too stupid/racist (w/e the reason) to listen to his former HC and draft Mahomes. 😂

 

 

 

Wow.  As I've mentioned before, a lot of my in laws are Giant fans.  And I know too many Giant fans among friends, work associates.  Plus I've had to battle with my in laws to keep my kids Redskins fans -- so far I've been miraculously successful in winning that battle during these down years albeit its helped that the Giants have been down, too. 

 

If the Giants ended up with Mahomes, my life would be miserable. 😀

 

Even though I wasn't a Jones guy before the draft and loved playing the youtube videos of Giant fans going crazy when they drafted him, I grudgingly admit he looked better than I expected last season.   And I think he has two traits that Eli lacked.  The dude is mobile.  He can run.  He's not a burner but he's above average on that front -- I'd compare him to Alex Smith in that regard.  The other is he's tough in the pocket.  Eli folds under pressure, Jones doesn't.

 

But some of my criticism of his college play thus far has translated including his propensity for turnovers and sketchy accuracy outside the short game.   

[Skinsinparadise]

I admit, its hard to not to drink the Rivera Kool Aide.   Seems like a great guy.  Good coach.  

 

 

 

[sportjunkie07]

Jones may be an ultimately limited qb, but the good traits he has shown, namely accuracy and mobility, can get you a long way in the nfl. 
 

I wasn’t impressed with Haskins last season and I’d take jones straight up at the moment.

 

haskins probably has a higher ceiling and getting in shape early this year is a good start to getting there.

[joeken24]

Might have been mentioned somewhere, but Kyle Allen was chosen directly by Scott Turner...not Ron. And this was when they were in Carolina. Scott brought him over to the Redskins as well. Of course Ron could have said no. But looks like he's allowing the coordinator to pick the groceries, which is a good thing IMO. He allowed Scott to choose Anthony Gibson. Who knows what other players was a Scott pick, but I hope they all work out. I do think Haskins will light things up this year as the starter. But I like Kyle as a backup. Particularly since he's got experience and the confidence of the coaching staff.

[Anselmheifer]

9 hours ago, GhostofAlvinWalton said:

fumblers, they gonna fumble...

 

Jones has ball security issues in college. This isn’t a one off. 

[goskins10]

5 hours ago, sportjunkie07 said:

Jones may be an ultimately limited qb, but the good traits he has shown, namely accuracy and mobility, can get you a long way in the nfl. 
 

I wasn’t impressed with Haskins last season and I’d take jones straight up at the moment.

 

haskins probably has a higher ceiling and getting in shape early this year is a good start to getting there.

 

Accuracy and mobility? His comp % was less than 62%, close to worst in the league for starters. And it's not like he finished well. His last 4 gms: 58%, 54%, 67% (against us) and 59%. 

 

Mobility? His 38 sacks was 9th worst and that's against players with 16 gms. His sack rate of 2.9/gm is 7th worst. Also, he had 18 fumbles, losing 11. That is 23 TOs in 13 gms, almost 2 a gm. Also, he had 24 TD but 13 of them were against 3 very bad Ds - Redskins, LIons, Jets. The other 10 gms? Just 11 TD with all 12 of his int. And again, he mostly got worse as the season went on as Ds started to see more of him. 

 

Haskins had a horrific start. Then an Ok middle then finished strongly. I would take Haskins over Daniels without a doubt. He totally has bust potential, I get that. But he also has a much higher ceiling. Jones is never get you but so many wins. 

 

Not saying you, but so many people watched those first games for both and formed opinions. Anyone who did has a very skewed view of both and are missed the most relevant data. 

 

I am not saying Haskins is for sure a better player. They finished with both needing I think a good TC and better year to see if they have a real chance at being the franchise QB.  But I am taking Haskins easily as Jones is very unlikely to take you anywhere is terms of playoffs where Haskins has the potential. He has a lot to learn. But it's within his grasp. I believe Jones has shown you his best in terms of athleticism and it's a bit rough. He may get a little better but I think he about. Haskins appears to have just scratched the surface. 

[Skinsinparadise]

To me, this is one of the more intriguing things about Haskins season this year.  One of my issues with Haskins as a prospect pre 2019 draft is his mobility.  He ended up looking more mobile than I expected.  But now he seems to be in great shape -- you'd figure it will improve his mobility even more. 

 

 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

The weight loss to me also says a lot about work ethic and professionalism. He’s taking things seriously. Doesn’t mean he’ll be successful, but it’s a good sign. 

[Skinsinparadise]

3 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

Accuracy and mobility? His comp % was less than 62%, close to worst in the league for starters. And it's not like he finished well. His last 4 gms: 58%, 54%, 67% (against us) and 59%. 

 

Mobility? His 38 sacks was 9th worst and that's against players with 16 gms. His sack rate of 2.9/gm is 7th worst. Also, he had 18 fumbles, losing 11. That is 23 TOs in 13 gms, almost 2 a gm. Also, he had 24 TD but 13 of them were against 3 very bad Ds - Redskins, LIons, Jets. The other 10 gms? Just 11 TD with all 12 of his int. And again, he mostly got worse as the season went on as Ds started to see more of him. 

 

 

 

I never thought I'd be writing posts defending Daniel Jones.  😀   I was arguably the lead band leader trashing him before the draft.  I was openly begging that we don't draft him.  I was thrilled when the Giants took him.  But watching all of his games but two last season, I was more impressed than I expected.   It's not that i am now sold but I am also not unsold. 

 

62% completion rate.  2:1 TD-INT ratio.  And he did it with garbage and often under duress.  Their O line was garbage.  He was missing weapons, their offense was ravaged by injuries.  I do think some NFL pundits are getting carried away by labeling him as an emerging star.  It's possible IMO but I am doubtful so I am relatively speaking not high on Jones.  But I do think he ends up a top 10-15 type starter.  Before that draft, I compared him to Keenum.  I didn't think he'd be a bust but I thought he'd be a marginal starter type 25-32 range.

 

The top 3 QBs who took sacks were D. Watson, R. Wilson and K. Murray.  Arguably the three most mobile and fastest QBs in the league.  Alex Smith also in his prime was considered mobile yet was sacked a lot.  Sometimes the dudes that move get sacked more in part because they hang or move in the pocket more because they trust their legs. 

 

I watched almost every Jones' game.  The dude could move.  You could see that in his college tape.  A QB who runs in the 4.6's (In his pro day) relatively speaking is fast.   If he played the full season he was on pace to rush for about 350 yards.  

 

What I like the most about his game is his touch on his throws in the flat where he hits his receivers almost perfectly in stride.  I was watching our guys in camp and they struggled with throwing the ball to the receivers in stride in the flat to set up YAC.   I commented about it at the time.  Jones is like Robocop level almost perfect at doing that.  That and his mobility and toughness in the pocket are his strengths IMO.  His weaknesses (same as college) is downfield accuracy, general consistency and fumbles.

 

I am somewhat uncertain about Daniel Jones' future as i am to a degree about Haskins, too.  I lean optimistic on Haskins.  I grudgingly admit that I do lean optimistic too though on Jones and it pains me to say, I hope am wrong about him.  I'd bet on Haskins over Jones.  But I do get those that say the reverse, there are arguments that can be made for either one over the other for different reasons.  It should be interesting to see how this all shakes out.  

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/59512/giants-make-right-move-heres-where-daniel-jones-mobility-mattered

"The biggest thing is the mobility of Daniel," Arians said during a conference call with Giants reporters during the week.

 

https://www.patspulpit.com/2019/10/10/20907685/new-england-patriots-new-york-giants-daniel-jones-mobility-5-questions-nfl-week-6-thursday-preview

If he gets outside of the pocket, he can cause a lot of damage with his speed and his ability to extend plays,” said Belichick, essentially painting the same picture as Ed did about the highly drafted Duke product. “But, he’s a very accurate quarterback and has good poise. He’s shown good toughness in the pocket. He’s been hit a few times, but he just stands in there and can keeps ripping it. He’s been impressive.”

[Skinsinparadise]

44 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

The weight loss to me also says a lot about work ethic and professionalism. He’s taking things seriously. Doesn’t mean he’ll be successful, but it’s a good sign. 

 

Agree.

 

I liked aspects of Haskins game last year.  And as I mentioned, watching Haskins a number of times interact with fans including my kids -- I thought he was a super nice guy.  He and Guice are amazing with fans.  Really generous, super nice dudes.  I've heard he's a smart dude and he's liked in the locker room. 

 

Yet, I was bothered by some of the stories (and yes I believed them, since it was coming from everywhere including reporters who are typically gun shy to report stories like that) about him not being a preparation hound.  Ironically, I just posted about Daniel Jones, and I recall a NY reporter during the season touted that the dude is a maniac as for work ethic, in the building in 4 am, etc. 

 

The Haskins stories reminded me some of Josh Rosen.  Similar stories about him in Arizona I recall.   And Rosen has yet to live up to his potential.  Cooley likes to say from what he saw in the locker room 70% of his teammates didn't love football and 30% of them did and he liked to say if he were a GM he would try to ferret out the ones who loved football.   

 

But all these off-season stories makes it look like he's done a complete metamorphosis on this.  He looks to be working like a maniac.  And that more than anything has made me optimistic about him because I don't have that pause anymore on that issue.  Reading Arians' book about QBs he talks about for that position you have to be a workaholic because like a golfer you have to keep honing the swing so to speak otherwise you will never be consistent and during the season you got to cram in the playbook in a short span of time. 

 

Arians among others expressed plenty of QBs who tried to make it in the league didn't have that hunger to work hard enough at it but those who did often made it.  So all of that has been floating in my mind about Haskins as for how it plays out for him. That's been my main reservation because otherwise I think he has a lot going for him.   But this off season, it comes off like there should be no worries on Haskins on that front.   Not to jinx it but I am drinking the Kool Aide on the weight loss, constant practicing, etc. 😀

[Conn]

The interesting thing about Jones is that most of those mobile, high sack guys are more careful with the ball in the air. So they throw less INT but take more sacks as they have confidence moving around behind the LOS waiting for plays to develop. This applies to Russ, Watson, hell even Rodgers. Murray is still a work in progress obviously as is Jones. But interestingly Jones suffered in BOTH the sacks/fumbles AND INT category as a rookie. With lots more interceptable passes besides that ending up on the turf.

 

That's hard to compensate for as an offense and completely undermines the things that ARE his strengths--mobility and accuracy between 0-15 yards, which is usually a recipe for an efficient and "safe" offense, but it's tough to play from behind that way and that's the hole you have to dig out of, with an ill-fitting skill-set, when you have tons of combined turnovers.

 

So if we're lucky he keeps flashing that proper NFL accuracy and efficiency in the underneath game while never getting  much smarter with the ball. That's a recipe for QB purgatory in this league as you keep hoping he takes that next step. A wildcard win near the end of his rookie contract and maybe they'll tie themselves down for a few more years. 

 

Doubt it plays out that way but it would be nice for us if it does.

[goskins10]

14 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I never thought I'd be writing posts defending Daniel Jones.  😀   I was arguably the lead band leader trashing him before the draft.  I was openly begging that we don't draft him.  I was thrilled when the Giants took him.  But watching all of his games but two last seasons, I was more impressed than I expected.   It's not that i am now sold but I am also not unsold. 

 

62% completion rate.  2:1 TD-INT ratio.  And he did it with garbage and often under duress.  Their O line was garbage.  He was missing weapons, their offense was ravaged by injuries.  I do think some NFL pundits are getting carried away by labeling him as an emerging star.  It's possible IMO but I am doubtful so I am relatively speaking not high on Jones.  But I do think he ends up a top 10-15 type starter.  Before that draft, I compared him to Keenum.  I didn't think he'd be a bust but I thought he'd be a marginal starter type 25-32 range.

 

The top 3 QBs who took sacks were D. Watson, R. Wilson and K. Murray.  Arguably the three most mobile and fastest QBs in the league.  Alex Smith also in his prime was considered mobile yet was sacked a lot.  Sometimes the dudes that move get sacked more in part because they hang or move in the pocket more because they trust their legs. 

 

I watched almost every Jones' game.  The dude could move.  You could see that in his college tape.  A QB who runs in the 4.6's (In his pro day) relatively speaking is fast.   If he played the full season he was on pace to rush for about 350 yards.  

 

What I like the most about his game is his touch on his throws in the flat where he hits his receivers almost perfectly in stride.  I was watching our guys in camp and they struggled with throwing the ball to the receivers in stride in the flat to set up YAC.   I commented about it at the time.  Jones is like Robocop level almost perfect at doing that.  That and his mobility and toughness in the pocket are his strengths IMO.  His weaknesses (same as college) is downfield accuracy, general consistency and fumbles.

 

I am somewhat uncertain about Daniel Jones' future as i am to a degree about Haskins, too.  I lean optimistic on Haskins.  I grudgingly admit that I do lean optimistic too though on Jones and it pains me to say, I hope am wrong about him.  I'd bet on Haskins over Jones.  But I do get those that say the reverse, there are arguments that can be made for either one over the other for different reasons.  It should be interesting to see how this all shakes out.  

 

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-giants/post/_/id/59512/giants-make-right-move-heres-where-daniel-jones-mobility-mattered

"The biggest thing is the mobility of Daniel," Arians said during a conference call with Giants reporters during the week.

 

https://www.patspulpit.com/2019/10/10/20907685/new-england-patriots-new-york-giants-daniel-jones-mobility-5-questions-nfl-week-6-thursday-preview

If he gets outside of the pocket, he can cause a lot of damage with his speed and his ability to extend plays,” said Belichick, essentially painting the same picture as Ed did about the highly drafted Duke product. “But, he’s a very accurate quarterback and has good poise. He’s shown good toughness in the pocket. He’s been hit a few times, but he just stands in there and can keeps ripping it. He’s been impressive.”

 

You sent that entire comment basically saying the same thing i did if you read mine to the end. I am not saying Jones is a dog. WHat I was responding to was the comparison to Haskins where the comment was -the would take Daniels flat out over Haskins.

 

Fast is not mobile on it's own. The results are still the results. I mean so now getting sacked is good thing? Means you are a better runner? I think it means you overestimate your abilities and get caught - that is not mobility. That is getting caught. Those guys have problems with their games that they need to fix. And that's not getting sacked so much. And why are we not making the same excuses for Haskins as Jones? Was our Oline better than the giants? We were playing guys off the street and missing the very best player on our team (thank ytou BA!). Our WRs had one guy that was legit. No TE. And our D was ass, pure ass. Not to mention Callaghan's offence was to run as much as possible and hope to make it to the end of the game - meaning he would not even let Haskins throw much so he could not develop. Even with that the change in Haskins from the 1st gm to his last was exponential. Where with Jones actually got worse. And we can blame it all on bad players and injuries but Haskins had the same drawbacks - you could easily argue it was worse. We had more injuries in more key spots including end especially on our o-line and TE. And also Haskins was showing much better mobility as he learned the Offence - his second one in the same year.  

 

Back to the point - what I am tired of is seeing people claim that Jones is head and shoulders above Haskins and that's what I was responding to. Haskins is not a finished product by any means. I said before - and you agreed 100% if I remember - they are about even. Both have things they need to work on and both will need some help from their coaches to get better quality players around them - hence the 2 new HCs. I could seeing giving a slight edge to either one if you wanted to but to claim Jones is head and shoulders better than Haskins is where i draw the line. and i am not changing that until I see more football from both of them. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

 

 

So if we're lucky he keeps flashing that proper NFL accuracy and efficiency in the underneath game while never getting  much smarter with the ball. That's a recipe for QB purgatory in this league as you keep hoping he takes that next step. A wildcard win near the end of his rookie contract and maybe they'll tie themselves down for a few more years. 

 

 

My interest on Jones is threefold.  I studied him a lot pre draft.  I watched his Duke games multiple times.    Because my wife is a Giants fan, I ended up watching most of their games, either taped or often they were on a different time than the Redskins.  I saw more Jones than Haskins last year because naturally Jones played more games.  The last thing for me is I have a lot vested in him failing.   

 

The biggest difference with Jones versus his college play for me was he was a ballsy thrower down the field with the Giants.  I wonder if that was pushed by Shurmur?  One of my beefs with him at Duke was he was too conservative as for taking shots.  It's part of the reason why I called him a poor man's Alex Smith.  I said he was Alex Smith but with turnovers.  And if so that takes away Alex's niche which is avoiding turnovers.  So that was intended as a shot from me.  But with the Giants, he had a little Rex Grossman in him at times -- he took mega chances.  And like Rex he was hit and miss at it.  But that was a big change in my view from his style in college.

 

The one thing I admire about Jones that I didn't previously when I watched his college tape is his short field accuracy.  And I learned to admire it more after watching Redskins training camp.  Jay had his QBs throw to death in exercises short throws in the flat.  Before watching those exercises, I just assumed those throws are easy to make.  And really the only QB who consistently hit the receivers in stride was Colt.  Haskins and Keenum mostly threw the ball either right to the receiver or slightly behind them.   Jay was trying to get them to throw the ball slightly ahead of the receiver.

 

I liked a lot of what i saw from Haskins in the last 2 games.  But yeah I did see some of those same issues from camp as to Haskins hitting receivers in stride in the flat.  Daniel Jones on the other hand was textbook at it in the games I watched.  His ability to hit receivers in stride in the flat was hard to miss.  And normally that would be yawn for me.  But I realized it's actually a skill that not every QB has mastered and it's not as easy as it looks.   

 

Having said that I did like Haskins over Jones before the draft and i still like him better than Jones now.  But all QBs have strengths and weaknesses, and IMO Jones is really good at hitting playmakers in stride.  If It were me, I'd load Jones with YAC type hybrid receiver types because I think throwing the ball in the flat (west coast style) to playmakers is likely going to be his niche.

 

As for not being smarter with the ball, I think he needs to cool it with taking chances like he did.  That's one thing I never thought I'd say about him after watching Duke where he was too conservative for my taste. 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

40 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

You sent that entire comment basically saying the same thing i did if you read mine to the end. I am not saying Jones is a dog. WHat I was responding to was the comparison to Haskins where the comment was -the would take Daniels flat out over Haskins.

 

Sorry my point directed to your post was squarely on the mobility issue.  The rest was a sidebar with me just pontificating about the player nothing to do with your post.

 

40 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Fast is not mobile on it's own. The results are still the results. I mean so now getting sacked is good thing? Means you are a better runner? I think it means you overestimate your abilities and get caught - that is not mobility. That is getting caught. Those guys have problems with their games that they need to fix. And that's not getting sacked so much.

 

 

 

i get the logic behind the point.   But I do think mobility and sacks ironically often converge.  Russell Wilson for example is a dynamo with his legs.  You pay a price with that at times and take more sacks.  The two can often go hand and hand when the tendency of the player is to extend plays and by extension since he's not dumping the ball fast, there is a greater chance he will get sacked more.

 

I think mobility is obvious when you see it.  Hence Arians, Belichick among others went out of their way to single out Jones' mobility.  He moves well IMO especially for a dude that size.

 

40 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

And why are we not making the same excuses for Haskins as Jones? Was our Oline better than the giants?

 

Speaking for myself, I was talking about Jones.  I haven't ignored Haskins' weak supporting cast.    All off season, I talked about needing to upgrade it.  I think now the Giants have the better O line ironically, IMO they surpassed us on that front after this off season.  Their LT was their big issue IMO and A. Thomas I think will more than fix that. 

 

I wouldn't consider myself a Haskins critic aside from one issue.  I've said numerous times, I am unsure about him, lean optimistic.  That's my take on Jones, too.  And I said I'd take Haskins over Jones.  But i totally see why some would have the opposite take.  It's a debatable conversation IMO.   I get you agree on this. 

 

40 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Back to the point - what I am tired of is seeing people claim that Jones is head and shoulders above Haskins and that's what I was responding to. Haskins is not a finished product by any means. I said before - and you agreed 100% if I remember - they are about even. Both have things they need to work on and both will need some help from their coaches to get better quality players around them - hence the 2 new HCs. I could seeing giving a slight edge to either one if you wanted to but to claim Jones is head and shoulders better than Haskins is where i draw the line. and i am not changing that until I see more football from both of them. 

 

 

 

I've made the same point multiple times.  Heck anything could end up true so who knows?  But for example, I was listening to Kiper on a podcast go on and on like Jones is going to be the next Peyton.  It was way over the top.  Then he debates McShay on it and Kiper goes if you watched how Jones played last season often under duress and still made plays, you'd see what i am talking about.  When Kiper says it, I have some of that same vibe of recalling being impressed with his play under duress but he takes it too far.  I admit I watched Jones last year and wanted to see him fail.   My mind was predisposed to look for the bad.  But I was surprised by his play in spite of that.  

 

My gut is Haskins ends up the better player.  As for Jones' ceiling. I don't think it's high or low.  Medium?    He doesn't have a rocket arm but its strong enough.  He's got good size.  He can move.  He's really tough in the pocket.   Supposedly works like a maniac.  My take right now about him is i am backing off my pre draft prediction that he's another Case Keenum.  I think he ends up better than that.  But I'd love to be wrong and for him to fail.   

 

 

 

[Going Commando]

Jones panics and doesn't see the coverage well.  That's why he puts the ball up for grabs so much, plus he just doesn't have the arm to drill throws into coverage at the second level and win.  He's gotten his ass beaten up too much.  It's hurt his decision making capacity.

 

He's alright.  Like an Eli with wheels.  He was over drafted but he'll probably work out.  There has never been a moment where I've doubted that Haskins is better than him.  Haskins is a much bigger talent than him and has the potential to be a high end starter if we don't ruin him first.