FAREWELL to the NFL Dwayne Haskins QB Ohio State

[KDawg]

7 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

 

While I have no way of proving this, I firmly believe that Haskins would have been getting better each week over that same timespan.

 

Yeah, I'm not sure why you believe that.

 

His play against the Giants looks exactly the same as his play in preseason. Almost completely identical. Same mistakes. Same mechanical issues. Same bright spots. Almost a complete and total carbon copy.

 

The only argument for this, thus far, is that we haven't seen him get consistent and constant game reps. So perhaps he's a guy who needs a lot of reps to start to see daylight. That's entirely possible. 

 

I could also see the argument that @volsmet presents: Daniel Jones is basically what he is going to be. There's not much higher for the guy to climb. He's almost at his apex. Haskins CAN still develop and his upside is far higher than Jones'. But his downside is also far lower. Which way he goes is up to the franchise and Haskins.

[DJHJR86]

16 hours ago, CowboyKillerz said:

A lot of damning things being written about DH... Just for the damn of it  imo

These same defenses were made for RG3 when multiple sources were saying how entitled he was because of the owner.  Turns out, the sources were right.  Where there is smoke, there is always fire with this franchise.  

[KDawg]

Just now, DJHJR86 said:

These same defenses were made for RG3 when multiple sources were saying how entitled he was because of the owner.  Turns out, the sources were right.  Where there is smoke, there is always fire with this franchise.  

 

Without a doubt, but I think @CowboyKillerz point is also valid. I think with all of these rumors we have to put a good amount of stock in them, but also remember that the Spin Doctor is in DC, and some people dislike HIM so much that they try to spin stuff the opposite direction.

 

So I'd imagine there is some truth to all of these rumors. The level of truth could be slightly embellished. Or it may not be. 

 

I know you're not saying otherwise. I just think it's prudent for people to keep that in mind with all of this stuff.

[DJHJR86]

1 minute ago, KDawg said:

I know you're not saying otherwise. I just think it's prudent for people to keep that in mind with all of this stuff.

 

If this were the Bengals or the Dolphins you could chalk up talk like that to everything falling apart because of a terrible, winless team.  But because it's the Redskins, and because people love to pile on the organization (rightfully most times) when things go south, they usually turn out true more often than not.

[RandyHolt]

With nothing more than personal preference as evidence, I think its a mistake to not play Haskins this week.

 

Colt's a mess and probably crying in the corner somewhere.  Case is pretending like he really doesn't have an ankle. And is pretending like all his turnovers are because of it, if anyone is inquiring what the hell happened to him. Who wears a boot for 1 day? I wonder if he is hiding a low grade high ankle - he IS playing for his next contract, so his eyes are probably watering in pain running around in drill sarge Cally's sprints.

 

With the coaching change, our "starting" QBs reaffirming they are journey ducks (™) and likely injured, playing THE greatest cupcake opponent likely in a decade, Coach Cally telling the world he will run AP 25 times no matter what, a rookies best friend, it just seems the perfect time to play him.  If even for just 1 week. Let Colt and Case heal up.

 

And best of all run risk of Miami logging a W. Teach them a lesson for others to learn.  Don't try to be more feeble than us. You'll never win, for we don't even have to try.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[JSSkinz]

We should have our 9th loss no later than week 11 (Could be before the Bye week in week 10)  so at that point, I cant see them do anything other than playing Haskins and that gives us 6 to 7 good starts to figure things out.  That's a decent enough sample size to take into the offseason so we can make the correct personnel decisions for the 2020 season, if we have one.

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

 

And for the record, Jones has been getting worse each week for the past 4 weeks:

 

4 weeks ago - 336 yds, 112.7 QB rating

3 weeks ago - 225 yds,  78.0 QB rating

2 weeks ago - 182 yds, 65.9 QB rating

This week - 161 yds, 35.2 QB rating

 

 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

 

I could also see the argument that @volsmet presents: Daniel Jones is basically what he is going to be. There's not much higher for the guy to climb. He's almost at his apex. Haskins CAN still develop and his upside is far higher than Jones'. But his downside is also far lower. Which way he goes is up to the franchise and Haskins.

 

I agree with this, my take as well on the draft thread.  Low ceiling, high floor.  I saw Daniel Jones as Alex Smith but who does turnovers.  So far that's what he's looked like.  Though more aggressive than Alex.  That part has surprised me.   I don't think he will be a bust but I also don't think he will ever be a top 10 QB.  Will see. 

[Skinsinparadise]

As for the Mike Lombardi stuff, I found the coaching point more interesting than Haskins.   He mentioned sources on the coaching stuff.   It was mentioned just now on 980 the 3 coaches connected to Lombardi (based on past work experience) would be Rob Ryan, Ray Horton, Bill Callahan. 

 

Sheehan just said he's heard Haskins is likable and coachable.  Others have also said he's a likable dude.  Like I mentioned I thought he came off very likable in camp.    The only criticism Sheehan got about him as a guy is that he's not the first to arrive or last to leave type.  He said he's not the other extreme either where he doesn't work hard.  But he's average on that front -- not a more guy, not a less guy.  But he among others have said they are spending extra time on prepping him and he's a willing student. 

 

Definitely a lot of noise cooking about Haskins' development.  I've never been the type that just thinks they all just make it up -- especially a dude like Keim.   So I think there is some genuine smoke.  Hopefully all the fears are unfounded.  And i am with Hoffman's implication where if its practice stuff that's concerning -- then play him.  Portis wasn't a great practice player.  Supposedly Cooley wasn't either.   

 

I am ok with waiting 2-3 weeks or whatever but then get him to play.   Like I've been saying if one of Haskins past QB coaches is OK with the idea and feels it would be telling then I don't think its that crazy.  

[RandyHolt]

Lombardi speaking about our disastrous organization trumps anything he said negatively about Haskins. No player especially a rookie QB can be expected to thrive in this toxic environment.  We are lucky if people merely survive here.

 

Random theory:  Any players that aren't pushing back at the insanity in some way, are merely accepting there is nothing they can do, and are punching out going home - just give me my ****ing check; just waiting to become a free agent.

 

DJ got axed trying to push back at the insanity. The number of current/former players speaking out against the Skins, almost seems unprecedented. Like our stadium being overrun.  Soon Bruce will feel compelled to include non disclosure agreements in all his players contracts.

 

Kirk refusing to sign here is the beginning of an exodus. Kirk, Trent. Ryan Grant. Haha. And Haha yes even taking less money to get out of our hell hole. Next up is Brandon Scherff.

[DJHJR86]

19 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

Definitely a lot of noise cooking about Haskins' development.  I've never been the type that just thinks they all just make it up -- especially a dude like Keim.   So I think there is some genuine smoke.  Hopefully all the fears are unfounded.  And i am with Hoffman's implication where if its practice stuff that's concerning -- then play him.  Portis wasn't a great practice player.  Supposedly Cooley wasn't either.   

 

Ben Standig was on Sheehan's podcast and he alluded to several players being mildly annoyed with the notion to "just play" Haskins for the sake of it, because in their minds there are 52 other guys on the roster who are prepping to play too.  I thought that was an interesting answer when Sheehan brought up why not just let Haskins play the rest of the season.

[CjSuAvE22]

Guys lets stop being delusional here theres no reason to compare haskins to jones... jones looked bad last night so what....he took over for a 2x super bowl winning quarterback and has flashed signs of being good at his position...our guy can barely hold on to a 2nd string role and has flashed zero signs of being good in limited play right now jones has a much higher ceiling until haskins can show that he can even play the game because its apparent to anyone with football knowledge on a professional

level associated with this team

he cannot yet so im done with this imagination of haskins ceiling being so high...right now the bar is low and its can he even play the game at the nfl level.

[Going Commando]

This thread is an embarrassment.

[Skinsinparadise]

30 minutes ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Ben Standig was on Sheehan's podcast and he alluded to several players being mildly annoyed with the notion to "just play" Haskins for the sake of it, because in their minds there are 52 other guys on the roster who are prepping to play too.  I thought that was an interesting answer when Sheehan brought up why not just let Haskins play the rest of the season.

 

If they think they need to wait for a few weeks or so, that's cool.  But if Colt and Case keep playing like this, I doubt the veterans would be that upset.    Haskins has a mile more talent than either QB. 

[skinsmania123]

38 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If they think they need to wait for a few weeks or so, that's cool.  But if Colt and Case keep playing like this, I doubt the veterans would be that upset.    Haskins has a mile more talent than either QB. 

 Colt and Case are not the answer but is Haskins?  You can't say he has more potential and talent because this has yet to be determined.  It has to translate from the collegiate level  onto an NFL field to be true. That potential is why Danny drafted him at 15.  If it is not true then it is just another fantasy of Danny's that did not bear out. And we don't know a damn thing because he is not ready to be on the field.  

 

  But the Skins have to see what they have with Haskins in the last 5-6 games of the season because of where he was drafted and because we don't have a QB.  Surely they can put a modicum of plays together that Haskins feels comfortable running and then get him out there.  To listen to Josh Norman it sounds like he is struggling with the playbook and other nuances of being an NFL QB.  

 

I don't care who likes Haskins or does not like Haskins.  The discussions about his personality is just noise and distraction. IMO he seemed well received by his O line when he stepped on the field against the Giants.   But I also noticed he looked bored as **** sitting on the bench when the OC was trying to help Case in a game he wound up being put into. That starts the rumors because it is not a good look. 

 

Easy to take shots at Jones, who I hope has reached his ceiling - better for us - but I don't think that is true.  He is playing just like a rookie.  I will wait until next year to determine that what he has. If he does not correct on some of his accuracy yeah he will not make it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

12 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 Colt and Case are not the answer but is Haskins?  You can't say he has more potential and talent because this has yet to be determined.  It has to translate from the collegiate level  onto an NFL field to be true. That potential is why Danny drafted him at 15.  If it is not true then it is just another fantasy of Danny's that did not bear out. And we don't know a damn thing because he is not ready to be on the field.  

 

 

Being talented and good aren't always the same thing.  Watching the three play in camp, you can see that Haskins was more talented than the other 2.  He can make throws that the other two could not.  He has a really live arm -- the other 2 IMO not so much.    But the other 2 played better on the aggregate.

 

I agree we don't know because we haven't seen him hit the field.  That's actually my point.  Let's see him at some point.   And I am just looking for flashes, I don't have a high bar where I am looking for excellence right away.  Just progress.  Ups and downs come with the turf. 

 

12 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

 

  But the Skins have to see what they have with Haskins in the last 5-6 games of the season because of where he was drafted and because we don't have a QB.  Surely they can put a modicum of plays together that Haskins feels comfortable running and then get him out there.  

 

Yep.  And to me hearing one of his ex-QB coaches say the same thing was the kicker for me on this point.

 

12 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

I don't care who likes Haskins or does not like Haskins.  

 

I only care about it on one front.  I don't want a divide in that FO leading through the next draft.  IMO they need to figure it out before that.

 

12 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

Easy to take shots at Jones, who I hope has reached his ceiling - better for us - but I don't think that is true.  He is playing just like a rookie.  I will wait until next year to determine that what he has. If he does not correct on some of his accuracy yeah he will not make it. 

 

I don't think anyone is saying Jones is boom or bust based on these 4 games   But people (me too) had some strong opinions about him before the draft.    Will see.  

[KDawg]

6 minutes ago, skinsmania123 said:

 

 

Easy to take shots at Jones, who I hope has reached his ceiling - better for us - but I don't think that is true.  He is playing just like a rookie.  I will wait until next year to determine that what he has. If he does not correct on some of his accuracy yeah he will not make it. 

 

So my biggest thing with talent evaluation, and where I think a lot of people miss the boat, is that it's not a one time thing.

 

You can't say, "yup, I graded him to be a bust before the draft, and I'm going to stick to that even though he's playing so much better now... because I have pride and an ego to preserve!"

 

Or "I have this guy graded as an absolute stud, but he's not showing it so far. I'm going to stubbornly stick to it because I want to be right!"

 

The biggest thing with talent evaluation isn't whether you get the initial eval. correct. It's that talent evaluation is a constant process. The best organizations are constantly evaluating their talent at every level of sport. 

 

Especially for those of us that don't have insider knowledge, right?

 

So I sat and graded out Haskins pre-draft. I thought he had tremendous upside. Was worried about his footwork. Liked his mobility. A bit of a project but based on my thought that he was heralded as a hard worker and a guy who put in large amounts of time to hone his craft, I didn't think it was far fetched we'd be seeing pretty significant strides.

 

Based on reports so far, my thoughts on his work ethic are off. Maybe not completely. But partially. He may not be the hardest worker in the room, but he's not lazy. But given my OWN thoughts on him pre-draft, that changes where I view him talent wise. He becomes a 2nd or 3rd round guy with that mindset. And a very long term project instead of a guy who reminds me of a well made chicken noodle soup... Like the soup tastes amazing, but it can use some salt. Based on what I knew of Haskins, he was that bland soup that needed some salt. 

 

That changes my outlook. 

 

And I still could be wrong, either way. My initial take was my initial take and I own it. Completely. But the guys who are at the top don't always get it right the first try, either. So if those professionals have that approach to things, I think it's important I try to model my mindset a little off of theirs.

 

So my take on Jones: Hasn't changed since the draft. Mechanicially sound, smart, has some burst but nothing special. Two key differences in my pre-draft thoughts: More risks, more turnovers. Didn't see that coming. 

[skinsmania123]

11 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Being talented and good aren't always the same thing.  Watching the three play in camp, you can see that Haskins was more talented than the other 2.  He can make throws that the other two could not.  He has a really live arm -- the other 2 IMO not so much.    But the other 2 played better on the aggregate.   I think he has a better arm but I am not sure about the accuracy. One of the things I agree that @KDawg posted is that he made the same mistakes in the Giants game that he did in preseason.  That was so true. Never would have thought about that if he had not brought it up. 

 

  I would have to go back and listen more closely but I think this is what Norman was saying during his interview.  The whole catching on and correcting things.

 

I think "talent" equals potential.  And then someone is good if not great if it translates onto the field. 

 

 I think it is of key importance that he gets on with his teammates and the new coach coming in. Some people are going to have issues with guys just to have issues.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Sonny9TD]

20 hours ago, CowboyKillerz said:

 

After watching that highlight reel I, for one, am excited to see DH and Mclauren on the field at the same time!

Purdy def put some nice throws out there- but #18 impressed me more. Kid is big fast and strong. Some poor throws were brought down due to his athleticism. Butler? Have to keep an eye on his stock

 

Only 1 throw was behind him the others were put where only he could get them pretty well placed. A lot more like the one at 1:38 and he is only a sophomore. Poor throws  were more common place for Haskins. This kid doing better with less of an arm and is a playmaker.

[DJHJR86]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

If they think they need to wait for a few weeks or so, that's cool.  But if Colt and Case keep playing like this, I doubt the veterans would be that upset.    Haskins has a mile more talent than either QB. 

 

I've been banging the drum of play Haskins immediately all year, so no argument from me on this front.  I just found it interesting that there was more than the whole "Gruden hates Haskins" narrative and that maybe Gruden didn't want to lose the locker room by starting a guy who was nowhere close to being ready.  

[Califan007 The Constipated]

4 hours ago, KDawg said:

 

Yeah, I'm not sure why you believe that.

 

 

I thought he improved as the preseason went along. He was also said to have improved significantly as his college year went along. I didn't see anything in his 1/2 a game against the Giants that would indicate that's the level of play he would bring to the field week in and week out.

[volsmet]

4 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

because of the owner. 

 

[Hooper]

Yeah, Jones has looked rough recently. Even against the Skins, he was throwing the ball up for grabs. Had a third pick dropped that game, but it was all overshadowed by how bad the Skins looked.

 

I don't think anyone has looked worse than Baker Mayfield at times this year. He looks like a slow RG3 or something. Holds on to the ball, then runs into pressure. Brutal!

 

All this is good for Haskins. Maybe lowers expectations a bit!

[volsmet]

2 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Guys lets stop being delusional here theres no reason to compare haskins to jones... jones looked bad last night so what....he took over for a 2x super bowl winning quarterback and has flashed signs of being good at his position...our guy can barely hold on to a 2nd string role and has flashed zero signs of being good in limited play right now jones has a much higher ceiling until haskins can show that he can even play the game because its apparent to anyone with football knowledge on a professional

level associated with this team

he cannot yet so im done with this imagination of haskins ceiling being so high...right now the bar is low and its can he even play the game at the nfl level.

 

[JSSkinz]

2 hours ago, DJHJR86 said:

several players being mildly annoyed with the notion to "just play" Haskins for the sake of it

Once we get our 9th loss it no longer matters, the players know the season is lost at that point so I'm not sure why they would be annoyed.

[Mr. Sinister]

3 minutes ago, JSSkinz said:

Once we get our 9th loss it no longer matters, the players know the season is lost at that point so I'm not sure why they would be annoyed.

 

They shouldn't be now, frankly. They are done. If they're so broken up about it then they should've played better football.