volsmet Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, skinsmania123 said: I don't care who likes Haskins or does not like Haskins. Even people who like or dislike Haskins, as a guy or a player, shouldn’t care if they like or dislike him, new information is never far away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, volsmet said: Seems doom and gloomy on my part but its the sad truth....there no evidence to think otherwise outside of haskkns one year of dominant football in college on a team where the next guy behind haskins is doing about the same as he did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 21 minutes ago, Hooper said: Yeah, Jones has looked rough recently. Even against the Skins, he was throwing the ball up for grabs. Had a third pick dropped that game, but it was all overshadowed by how bad the Skins looked. I don't think anyone has looked worse than Baker Mayfield at times this year. He looks like a slow RG3 or something. Holds on to the ball, then runs into pressure. Brutal! All this is good for Haskins. Maybe lowers expectations a bit! If you look at the QB's drafted over the last years, you can't really say any of them are lighting the world on fire, at least not by what we've seen thus far. You could argue that Gardner Minshew (LMAO) is creating the most buzz. It just doesn't appear any of them are really "paying off" so I've definitely lowered my expectations on all of them, including Haskins! Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, Josh Rosen, Mason Rudolph, Kyle Lauletta, Luke Falk, Gardner Minshew, Kyler Murray, Drew Lock, Dwayne Haskins, Daniel Jones, Will Grier, Ryan Finley, Jarrett Stidham, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 33 minutes ago, Califan007 said: I thought he improved as the preseason went along. He was also said to have improved significantly as his college year went along. I didn't see anything in his 1/2 a game against the Giants that would indicate that's the level of play he would bring to the field week in and week out. Agreed. We learned two things about DH in his lone appearance this season: Jack & 🤫 29 minutes ago, Hooper said: Yeah, Jones has looked rough recently. Even against the Skins, he was throwing the ball up for grabs. Had a third pick dropped that game, but it was all overshadowed by how bad the Skins looked. I don't think anyone has looked worse than Baker Mayfield at times this year. He looks like a slow RG3 or something. Holds on to the ball, then runs into pressure. Brutal! All this is good for Haskins. Maybe lowers expectations a bit! Baker looks like happy feet heath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veryoldschool Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said: Being talented and good aren't always the same thing. Watching the three play in camp, you can see that Haskins was more talented than the other 2. He can make throws that the other two could not. He has a really live arm -- the other 2 IMO not so much. But the other 2 played better on the aggregate. I am not sure I agree with you about being talented and good aren't the same thing. It depends on how one defines talent. Having a great arm is helpful but shouldn't be the yardstick on whether a QB is talented in my opinion. A QB's real talent, the one that is most important and hardest to measure is how fast can they accurately process the field. Without the capacity to process quickly a big arm is useless. Of course, a QB has to good throwing arm to achieve significant success but a smart guy with a mediocre arm can contribute but a clueless guy with a big arm is a useless sitting duck in the NFL. We have all seen that Haskins has a strong arm what we don't know is can he learn to process the field well enough to productively use his strong arm. The Redskins invested a great deal of effort trying to teach this skill to Griffin without success. Let's hope the negative talk drifting out of Ashburn about Haskins's sense of entitlement and work ethic is nonsense and he perseveres and he masters the system and how to process the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said: Seems doom and gloomy on my part but its the sad truth....there no evidence to think otherwise outside of haskkns one year of dominant football in college on a team where the next guy behind haskins is doing about the same as he did Well, Justin Fields was the 2nd best HS player in his class, next to Trevor Lawrence on rivals & 247. The fact that DH beat out Joe Burrow, a guy being touted as a Heisman front runner & a potential top 15 pick, should mean more than what Fields is currently doing, if we’re extrapolating from we’ve seen in college football this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CjSuAvE22 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, volsmet said: Well, Justin Fields was the 2nd best HS player in his class, next to Trevor Lawrence on rivals & 247. The fact that DH beat out Joe Burrow, a guy being touted as a Heisman front runner & a potential top 15 pick, should mean more than what Fields is currently doing, if we’re extrapolating from we’ve seen in college football this year. your point is well taken only reason I brought college football into this is because many are basing haskins ceiling on what he did in college, so my point being that the guy next in line is doing just as fine and maybe we should temper expectations since anyone who watches the NFL knows college success has nothing to do with NFL success, basically im leaning toward being more cautious then optimistic at this point especially since with all that success haskins had in college the pro game is proving to be a formidable task for him, im ready to see results on the field for this team not just haskins im tired of merit based past success being a string of hope for players on the team you are only as good as what u bring to the table and that's how good teams are built (by knowing that at least the guy next in line is ready) in this league and right now if haskins can only bring a clipboard and learning to this team then its not good enough from a first round pick unfortunately and until I see something and believe me I will eat crow (if haskins becomes a legitimate player) I have eaten crow in the past supporting laron landry countless times only for him to be a flame out, but for now my expectations for him are seriously hampered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 2 hours ago, KDawg said: So my take on Jones: Hasn't changed since the draft. Mechanicially sound, smart, has some burst but nothing special. Two key differences in my pre-draft thoughts: More risks, more turnovers. Didn't see that coming. The more risks is new. He seemed reluctant to throw in tight windows in college (though granted he had an arocious supporting cast, then) -- heck even in the senior bowl practices. But the turnovers aren't new. That was my main issue with him -- for a dude who was really conservative with the ball, he still threw his share of INTs, led the draft eligible QBs in fumbles, tipped balls, etc. Jones to me had a Colt-Keenum type turnover gene in him. Maybe he grows out of it. But yeah he certainly looks the part, compact delivery, consistent mechanics. I am sticking to i doubt he's a bust but he ends up a middle of the pack at best Qb. Will see. And I agree with your point about evaluating talent is an ongoing process and it's a mistake to be stuck on your first impression. So that would pertain to Haskins, Jones, everyone. 1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said: I've been banging the drum of play Haskins immediately all year, so no argument from me on this front. I just found it interesting that there was more than the whole "Gruden hates Haskins" narrative and that maybe Gruden didn't want to lose the locker room by starting a guy who was nowhere close to being ready. Yeah the irony is digesting all the narrative about Haskins of late -- Gruden if anything was one of the nicest. He really went to town with the he's going to be a great QB rhetoric. I hope he's right. But Keim, Sheehan, Paulsen and others have made it clear that are other people in that building that aren't sold just, yet. 2 hours ago, skinsmania123 said: I am not sure about the accuracy either. And I've been detailed about that on this thread via the 5 practices I watched. Others who watched him in camp have said the same. But I'd still like to see it in games. I am totally fine with the idea of not rushing him out there now. But I'd play him after the bye week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 @Veryoldschool I agree with your point about the ability to process the field quickly is key. Arians talks about it in his QB book saying almost every Qb he has had in his QB room can dissect a defense but only the best and franchise QB types can do it quickly. But as to Haskins, I presume he needs more time on that front. I can see rookies struggling on this front. It's actually another reason why I'd like to play him soon. I'd presume nothing beats developing a real visual mapping memory on that front from just seeing different coverages repetitively in the heat of the battle. I get some here are totally sold on Haskins. And some aren't. I think that's fine since we are fans. But I've heard enough noise to think that same mixed sentiment exists in the FO. If everyone seemed sold, I'd be more chilled about it. But if the nicest way for me to put it there is mixed opinion in that building and we got arguably a really good draft for QBs in the offing -- I want to see more data points for the FO to make up their mind about Haskins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ggarriso Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 4 hours ago, DJHJR86 said: Ben Standig was on Sheehan's podcast and he alluded to several players being mildly annoyed with the notion to "just play" Haskins for the sake of it, because in their minds there are 52 other guys on the roster who are prepping to play too. I thought that was an interesting answer when Sheehan brought up why not just let Haskins play the rest of the season. I think this is a key point that the fans need to take in. Some fans want to throw this dude in there, who by all accounts, isnt ready (those that know my posts know I will argue he will never be the guy) to "see what hes about". You have 52 players on that team playing who still want to win, and some are playing for their careers and futures. Sacrificing even a lost season for the sole purpose of "seeing what you got" is not going to fly with the team this day in age. This is compounded by the coaches telling us day in and day out in not uncertain terms that they know what they got at this moment in time, and its not a competitive quarterback. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, ggarriso said: I think this is a key point that the fans need to take in. Some fans want to throw this dude in there, who by all accounts, isnt ready (those that know my posts know I will argue he will never be the guy) to "see what hes about". You have 52 players on that team playing who still want to win, and some are playing for their careers and futures. Sacrificing even a lost season for the sole purpose of "seeing what you got" is not going to fly with the team this day in age. This is compounded by the coaches telling us day in and day out in not uncertain terms that they know what they got at this moment in time, and its not a competitive quarterback. Why must fans take that in? Some guys are annoyed, that doesn’t seem like something a fan needs to worry about when discussing things they’d personally like to see. Some fans are annoyed by the lousy performances of our starters, perhaps that’s a key point they need to take in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dissident2 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, volsmet said: Why must fans take that in? Some guys are annoyed, that doesn’t seem like something a fan needs to worry about when discussing things they’d personally like to see. Some fans are annoyed by the lousy performances of our starters, perhaps that’s a key point they need to take in. It doesn't make any sense to not start playing him consistently by at least Week 8. There is nothing whatsoever to lose. Let the other 52 guys concentrate on doing THEIR jobs for once. It's not like we've even been close in any of these games, and we MUST see what we have in Haskins on some level before the season is over. Otherwise, with a likely high draft pick, could be another QB controversy carousel. Sheehan is also right when he says that it would be virtually unprecedented for a QB to be taken that high in the draft, play on a terrible, losing team and not get in there during the season to show what he can do. It rarely has ever happened in the NFL. Which means it's the norm here, of course. He's also right when he says how red of a flag this is for Haskin's future and Lord Snyder's overreaching on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CowboyKillerz Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Any links to any of Callis pressers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 14 minutes ago, Dissident2 said: It doesn't make any sense to not start playing him consistently by at least Week 8. There is nothing whatsoever to lose. Let the other 52 guys concentrate on doing THEIR jobs for once. It's not like we've even been close in any of these games, and we MUST see what we have in Haskins on some level before the season is over. Otherwise, with a likely high draft pick, could be another QB controversy carousel. Sheehan is also right when he says that it would be virtually unprecedented for a QB to be taken that high in the draft, play on a terrible, losing team and not get in there during the season to show what he can do. It rarely has ever happened in the NFL. Which means it's the norm here, of course. He's also right when he says how red of a flag this is for Haskin's future and Lord Snyder's overreaching on him. Agreed. Players being annoyed should be slightly less influential than the next deposit Cliff Clavin makes into the commode at Cheers. The franchise needs to assess what it’s got moving forward, Case & Colt are who they’ll always be, we need to prepare the young guys & evaluate them. The incompetence of DH is being drastically oversold, Imo. I don’t care what reports say, he can throw a football. The game is easier for QBs than its ever been, you can call 25 throws to backs like others do, like NE constantly does, DH just needs to see the speed & play. It’s a QB driven league, when our players become coaches, they can make their own decisions, right now they all need to get better & the organization needs to evaluate DH based on something more significant than hearsay. * Our best offensive player has taken snaps with DH for 3 years, let’s see how that looks & not worry about speculation. Prepare him, play him, assess him. It’s just football, not not football Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinsinparadise Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 minute ago, volsmet said: The incompetence of DH is being drastically oversold, Imo. I don’t care what reports say, he can throw a football. The game is easier for QBs than its ever been, you can call 25 throws to backs like others do, like NE constantly does, DH just needs to see the speed & play. It’s a QB driven league, when our players become coaches, they can make their own decisions, right now they all need to get better & the organization needs to evaluate DH based on something more significant than hearsay. I agree with all of this. Call a conservative game plan -- let DH see the speed and play. If he needs two weeks or the bye, cool. Then let it ride. And give the dude a break through the process, he will have up and downs -- look for the flashes and progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FuriousD Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 2 hours ago, JSSkinz said: Once we get our 9th loss it no longer matters, the players know the season is lost at that point so I'm not sure why they would be annoyed. Agreed. Every coach and player on this team needs to be busting butt auditioning for a job next year, whether it's here or somewhere else.. By the Jets game that should include Haskins on the field and under center Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HigSkin Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I agree with all of this. Call a conservative game plan -- let DH see the speed and play. If he needs two weeks or the bye, cool. Then let it ride. And give the dude a break through the process, he will have up and downs -- look for the flashes and progress. Maybe Callahan will wait to see if he can get the running game going. It would help DH a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 2 hours ago, CjSuAvE22 said: Seems doom and gloomy on my part but its the sad truth....there no evidence to think otherwise outside of haskkns one year of dominant football in college on a team where the next guy behind haskins is doing about the same as he did Like Kyler Murray? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PartyPosse Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 It still makes sense to me to keep Haskins on the bench. You play him now, you’re simplifying the schemes, essentially dumbing it down to help evaluate him. You play a vet with a better grasp of the nfl then you’re evaluating the rest of the offense. Rather be able to get a good idea of what the other 25-30 rostered offensive players are capable of than what DH can do right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 6 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I agree with all of this. Call a conservative game plan -- let DH see the speed and play. If he needs two weeks or the bye, cool. Then let it ride. And give the dude a break through the process, he will have up and downs -- look for the flashes and progress. Michigan & Washington will prepare a QB about as well as any college defenses can, he saw the best man to man team & the best zone team in 2018; he improved as the year went on, he needs experience. Haskins was very slow in processing what Nebraska was doing defensively, but by years end he picked apart Michigan’s zone despite preparing for them to play man & then found some success v Washington, including his most impressive throw of the year, moving a lb & dropping a ball between levels v the most disciplined defense in the country. He needs to see the speed, he needs to see what he’s got to work on as well as what he’s processing correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 19 minutes ago, volsmet said: The incompetence of DH is being drastically oversold, Imo. I don’t care what reports say, he can throw a football. The game is easier for QBs than its ever been, you can call 25 throws to backs like others do, like NE constantly does, DH just needs to see the speed & play. It’s a QB driven league, when our players become coaches, they can make their own decisions, right now they all need to get better & the organization needs to evaluate DH based on something more significant than hearsay. I mean,at this point, we just don't know if it is or isn't being oversold. I think exaggerated is definitely an option... because some of the **** I read makes it sound like the guy who put together a damn good collegiate season last season can't even chew gum while walking. But we have no way of knowing for sure. That's why I want to see him. But the people in the building DO see him. I have a hard time believing he can't at least go out there and do something of note, though. He's got too much talent. But I'm not there so I digress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 3 minutes ago, PartyPosse said: It still makes sense to me to keep Haskins on the bench. You play him now, you’re simplifying the schemes, essentially dumbing it down to help evaluate him. You play a vet with a better grasp of the nfl then you’re evaluating the rest of the offense. Rather be able to get a good idea of what the other 25-30 rostered offensive players are capable of than what DH can do right now. On offense, the guys we need to evaluate, other than TM, will probably each be working with limited packages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Llevron Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 35 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said: I feel like they would have been doing this from the start had Gruden not had his pet project out there trying to get it together for one last ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickyJ Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 33 minutes ago, CowboyKillerz said: Any links to any of Callis pressers? Yo @Califan007 , do us a favor and put one up, can ya? Just a phone recording will do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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