Next Coach?

[Skinsinparadise]

1 hour ago, Koolblue13 said:

I guess Rivera is a good hire. Hopefully he wants to move on from a lot of our older vets and since we have an incredibly young team, the "ole Coach" figure is a great strength to build around. I also like the defensive coach. 

 

I was initially lukewarm about Rivera but diving into him deeper, I think he'd be a good hire.  He's a big culture, motivational, discipline guy and is a really good X-O defensive mind.  I don't think he's an elite coach or even a great one.  But I think he stands out among the pack of the ones they are considering,

[Andre The Giant]

On ESPN, Schefter and Mort said they’re hearing Rivera most prominently, and hearing Marvin as well.

[86 Snyder]

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

I was initially lukewarm about Rivera but diving into him deeper, I think he'd be a good hire.  He's a big culture, motivational, discipline guy and is a really good X-O defensive mind.  I don't think he's an elite coach or even a great one.  But I think he stands out among the pack of the ones they are considering,

 

Posted this in the #firebruceallen thread, but all the reports after his firing were about what a great guy and class act he is.  I'm all for this organization collecting those kinds of people.  We need it desperately. 

[Skinsinparadise]

5 minutes ago, 86 Snyder said:

 

Posted this in the #firebruceallen thread, but all the reports after his firing were about what a great guy and class act he is.  I'm all for this organization collecting those kinds of people.  We need it desperately. 

 

Yeah I made similar comments on this thread.  He has the reputation of being a class act.  I agree with your sentiment on this. 

[wit33]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Yeah I made similar comments on this thread.  He has the reputation of being a class act.  I agree with your sentiment on this. 

Struggling to get behind Rivera, but like what I’m reading about his intangibles. Like some have mentioned, the team is starving for high character guys who value to their core the culture of the team. I was always a Luke warm supporter of Jay, due to team experiencing average to above success in some years and his involvement in developing Kirk, but never did he appear to be a dynamic leader that valued culture. 
 

Any have some knowledge on Rivera or thoughts on what his elite traits are, or if they exist at all? I from afar credit much of his Panthers success to Cam Newton and the unique run offense and the trickle down that type of offense has on defensive numbers. This is an opinion without much evidence to support, so feel free to blast or contest it. 

[Skinsinparadise]

8 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Struggling to get behind Rivera, but like what I’m reading about his intangibles. Like some have mentioned, the team is starving for high character guys who value to their core the culture of the team. I was always a Luke warm supporter of Jay, due to team experiencing average to above success in some years and his involvement in developing Kirk, but never did he appear to be a dynamic leader that valued culture. 
 

Any have some knowledge on Rivera or thoughts on what his elite traits are, or if they exist at all? I from afar credit much of his Panthers success to Cam Newton and the unique run offense and the trickle down that type of offense has on defensive numbers. This is an opinion without much evidence to support, so feel free to blast or contest it. 

 

Let me preface it by saying I like Rivera, don't love him.  but I love him compared to some of the other candidates being considered.

 

Attributes

Really good X and O's guy on defense

Would probably be cool with O'Connell so would keep continuity with Haskins

Motivator-discipline guy (if you search on twitter and you tube, you'll find some good expletive-angry talks)

Is conscious of the need to change culture wherever he goes

Classy dude-integrity

[drowland]

So looks like Dan is going for the veteran defensive guy so they can keep KOC as OC and then if Haskins and offense shines he'll fire that guy and promote KOC to HC before another team comes for him.  Tampa's done this type of thing twice and it failed both times.  But makes sense with all the former Tampa people in the building that they'd be selling this to Dan as a good idea.  

 

I'd rather Dan just go for it if they think KOC is another McVay and stop with the Tampa two-stepping.  

[BRAVEONAWARPATH]

Just now, drowland said:

So looks like Dan is going for the veteran defensive guy so they can keep KOC as OC and then if Haskins and offense shines he'll fire that guy and promote KOC to HC before another team comes for him.  Tampa's done this type of thing twice and it failed both times.  But makes sense with all the former Tampa people in the building that they'd be selling this to Dan as a good idea.  

 

I'd rather Dan just go for it if they think KOC is another McVay and stop with the Tampa two-stepping.  

I don't know about the Tampa stuff but yeah, I'd prefer they "be bold" and go with KOC.

[veteranskinsfan]

I am forced to listen to Eagles sports radio based on where I live and these two veteran sports guys today said they saw on Profootballtalk.com that Skins

are probably hiring Marvin Lewis.  They started laughing at this news.  They said he is 0-8 in playoff games.  They were suprised we did not consider Matt Rule

from Baylor.  They said the Panthers plan to interview him.   The other negative comment about Lewis was :  RETREAD.  Ugh.  Hope Profootballtalk.com is wrong.

[Andre The Giant]

4 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I am forced to listen to Eagles sports radio based on where I live and these two veteran sports guys today said they saw on Profootballtalk.com that Skins

are probably hiring Marvin Lewis.  They started laughing at this news.  They said he is 0-8 in playoff games.  They were suprised we did not consider Matt Rule

from Baylor.  They said the Panthers plan to interview him.   The other negative comment about Lewis was :  RETREAD.  Ugh.  Hope Profootballtalk.com is wrong.

Who cares what Philly radio hosts say.  Marvin is a proven coach.  Skins could do much worse.

[drowland]

1 minute ago, BRAVEONAWARPATH said:

I don't know about the Tampa stuff but yeah, I'd prefer they "be bold" and go with KOC.

 

I'm referring to when the Bucs fired Jon Gruden and promoted DC Raheem Morris to HC because Raheem was a hot name.  And then when they fired Lovie and promoted OC Kirk Koetter because Winston had a good year and they were afraid a team would come for him. 

 

If Ron or whoever is smart they'll ask for at least 5 years on their deal.  

[HigSkin]

20 minutes ago, wit33 said:

Struggling to get behind Rivera, but like what I’m reading about his intangibles. Like some have mentioned, the team is starving for high character guys who value to their core the culture of the team. I was always a Luke warm supporter of Jay, due to team experiencing average to above success in some years and his involvement in developing Kirk, but never did he appear to be a dynamic leader that valued culture. 
 

Any have some knowledge on Rivera or thoughts on what his elite traits are, or if they exist at all? I from afar credit much of his Panthers success to Cam Newton and the unique run offense and the trickle down that type of offense has on defensive numbers. This is an opinion without much evidence to support, so feel free to blast or contest it. 

 

Here's some good insight in to him back when he was fired early December.  I, like you and others am luke warm on Rivera.  He's definitely old school.

 

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/12/4/20994826/carolina-panthers-ron-rivera-cam-newton-old-new-nfl

 

The Panthers–Ron Rivera Divorce Is the Rare NFL Split That Benefits Both Parties

 

Team owner David Tepper wants to overhaul the team and modernize its operations. Rivera, meanwhile, will become the most sought-after coach on the market after his successful tenure in Carolina went stale.

 

Both of these things can be true: Ron Rivera is a very good coach. And Ron Rivera was probably not going to be a very good coach for the 2020 Carolina Panthers.

 

Rivera, fired Tuesday after nine years with the Panthers, including one Super Bowl appearance, four playoff berths, and any number of great GIFs, instantly vaults to the top of the list for teams in need of a head coach this offseason. Seventy-five percent of the NFC East should consider him a top candidate for their jobs—Washington now, and New York and Dallas if and when those jobs become available.

 

Rivera’s departure was inevitable, and so, too, is his eventual hiring by another NFL team in a few months. The reason Rivera probably can no longer be a good coach for the Panthers is that the franchise is trying, under new owner David Tepper, to be aggressively modern and analytics-driven and, as he said on Tuesday, Rivera “accepted it to a certain extent. He knows where it is, but he also has 35 years in the game of doing things a certain way. That would take a lot of time.”

 

In a way, this works for everyone: Rivera gets to go to a new team, improve it, and run it the way he wants. Tepper gets to improve his team by getting ultramodern. Rivera is a good coach, but he is not ultramodern.

 

For my first story for The Ringer in 2016, I wrote about friction between coaches, front offices, and the league office caused by the spread of analytics and technology. It included a bit on the debate among coaches about how much and what kinds of technology they wanted to implement in the game. In the reporting process, I’d heard that Rivera had given an impassioned plea at a league meeting against technology—specifically increased video technology on the sideline during games. I asked him whether he wanted to comment on what I’d heard—he got on the phone within about an hour and not only confirmed what he said but repeated it verbatim to me for use in the article. Rivera told me he thought it was unfair to have live video and other technological mechanisms on the sideline because it would minimize the value of the work coaches put in. He told me: “Where does it end? Can you get text messages or go out there with an iPhone and figure out where to go? What are we creating? I know there are millennial players, but this is still a game created 100 years ago. … I want to get beat on the field. I don’t want to get beat because someone used a tool or technology.”

 

I talked to a lot of coaches for that story, and almost none of them would speak on the record about this stuff. Rivera, who was far from the only coach who felt this way, was comfortable talking about it because he is unusually honest for a football coach and he’s unapologetically himself when it comes to the old-school elements of his approach. Rivera was not going to become the “How do you do, fellow kids” meme on the sideline by forcing a persona that wasn’t him. Rivera and I have talked a lot about analytics and where the game is headed. I’ve always been higher on analytics than he was in those conversations (this is, it should be noted, pretty typical of my conversations with NFL coaches), but he wasn’t totally resistant: Remember, Rivera became Riverboat Ron because he went for it on fourth down when it was wildly unpopular to do so. He told me he was influenced by two things to become the fourth-down guru: a banker he met at an awards dinner years ago who gave him data on fourth down, and The New York Times’ Fourth Down Bot.

 

But Rivera was never going to become Billy Beane. I think what happened Tuesday is probably going to happen inside a lot of teams: Ownership pushes for a new-school approach, and older-school coaches lose their jobs. In September, Tepper sounded like a certified member of NFL Twitter, discussing the value of first-down passes. “I just want to make sure analytics are applied,” he said. “I don’t want human biases to alter what we think is correct or not correct. There is an openness to it here, which is good. I want a tough mentality, I like grittiness, but this is a new age.”

The new age, in this case, will not include Rivera, a very good coach for a team that is not trying to do what the Panthers’ new ownership wants to be doing.

 

The NFL moves quickly: Just four years ago, the Panthers looked like they had the best team in the sport, reaching the Super Bowl after a 15-1 regular season with a young, dynamic quarterback, a deep defense, and a talented head coach. Cam Newton, banged up all season before being placed on the injured reserve last month, may have played his last snap with the team. Rivera is gone. Dave Gettleman, the general manager of that 2015 team, has since been fired and might be on his way to getting fired from his current job with the Giants. Cornerback Josh Norman, that team’s star cornerback, had his franchise tag revoked by the team and departed for the Redskins, where he’s playing his way out of town despite generally productive seasons before his current campaign.

 

Rivera accomplished something few coaches ever do: He built a great team, the 2015 Panthers. They won the NFC in an absolute destruction against the Cardinals in the conference title game, then suffered a weird defeat in the Super Bowl—a listless performance against a historically great Broncos defense.

 

It doesn’t matter to this particular discussion, of course, but I’ll note that Rivera is universally considered one of the nicest coaches in the sport. 

But, of course, they lost that game. I think a lot about what Super Bowl losses do to teams. When you talk to people in the NFL, losing a Super Bowl comes up a hell of a lot more than winning a Super Bowl. The Panthers and Falcons have both suffered tough losses in that game this decade. The Rams have been in a funk since getting dismantled by the Patriots last February. It’s impossible to say what Rivera’s legacy (and Newton’s) would have been had they limited their mistakes that day and won. All we can say for certain is what we know now: Rivera will have his pick of jobs to try again.

---

It is very easy to sound like a good owner but significantly harder to be one. So it’s impossible to say, based on his comments Tuesday, that Tepper, a billionaire hedge fund legend, is a good owner, but he really sounds like one. “I have great respect for old-school toughness and discipline. Given my background, I lived in an analytical world. A stats world. It’s about innovative processes. Process management,” Tepper said. “A guy can do old-school process management too, but innovative process management. Modern and innovative techniques.”

 

Click on the link to read the entire story.

 

 

[Est.1974]

8 minutes ago, veteranskinsfan said:

I am forced to listen to Eagles sports radio based on where I live and these two veteran sports guys today said they saw on Profootballtalk.com that Skins are probably hiring Marvin Lewis.  They started laughing at this news.  They said he is 0-8 in playoff games.

 

He'd still be 0-8 when Dan fired him in 3 years time. 

 

I'd prefer Rivera but am hesitant based on the talk he is waiting on the other scenarios to unfold in NY and Dallas.

[Skinsinparadise]

He earned the moniker Riverboat Ron for going for it on fourth downs early in his tenure in Carolina (though he always preferred the nickname Analytical Ron.) Having one of the most physically dominant quarterbacks in NFL history in his prime sure did make going for it on fourth-and-short a lot easier in the early 2010s, though.

But I know that Rivera has been buying into advanced analytics for some time. For example, we spoke privately last season about going for the two-point conversion after scoring a touchdown down 14 to make it a six-point game in the fourth quarter, and he did that against the Packers in Week 10 this year.

In 2013 against the Dolphins, the Panthers faced a fourth-and-10 from their own 20 with 2:33 left in the game down 16-13. A conservative coach possibly would have punted there understanding the risk of a turnover on downs that deep in your own territory and asked his defense to get a stop with the ability to stop the clock twice with the final timeout and 2-minute warning. Instead, Rivera believed in his players and the flow of the game, and Cam Newton hit Steve Smith for a 19-yard pass on the way to the game-winning touchdown.

Later that season in Week 16, at home to the Saints in a game for the division crown down 13-10 with 2 minutes left at his own 36, Rivera punted on fourth-and-7 believing the defense would get a stop on the other side of the 2-minute warning. He gave the ball back to Drew Brees in a game for the division crown and got it right. The Panthers got the ball back with 55 seconds down 3 and scored the game-winning touchdown 27 seconds later.

The point I'm making here is, Rivera does make sense to me when he says he uses analytics as a tool. I feel he's gotten unfairly bashed for saying what analytics don't do when he's right. And perhaps playing in this league and coaching in it for three decades does account for something that the numbers simply can't — and that's OK.

 

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/ron-rivera-has-a-preference-for-what-his-next-head-coaching-job-has-to-offer-a-challenge/

[Panninho]

So Browns and Giants are also in the market for a new HC. Will be interesting, have to believe coaching here is one of the worst jobs out there.

[Thinking Skins]

I would not be against the Ron Rivera signing at all, but one thing that worries me is that his schemes defensively were primarily zone based. I don't know what that means in terms of blitzes and stuff but I wonder if we would ever change our DBs playing 7 yards off on third and 5, or the fact that it seems like we have a bunch of press man corners. Is it ideal to adapt a scheme that doesn't utilize that talent? 

 

This is probably being nitpicky because its nowhere near the red flag I see as far as Marvin Lewis bringing in Hue Jackson. I respect Jackson a lot but I think that Haskins should stick with KOC for the sake of his development. I don't want another Alex Smith or Jason Campbell thing going on where a guy has to learn from a bunch of different coordinators simply because the front office and ownership flys by the seat of their pants. 

[KillBill26]

8 minutes ago, Thinking Skins said:

 

This is probably being nitpicky because its nowhere near the red flag I see as far as Marvin Lewis bringing in Hue Jackson. I respect Jackson a lot but I think that Haskins should stick with KOC for the sake of his development. I don't want another Alex Smith or Jason Campbell thing going on where a guy has to learn from a bunch of different coordinators simply because the front office and ownership flys by the seat of their pants. 

Having a QB going through different coordinators and schemes is frustrating, but I think the converse is worse: judging a candidate based on whether he will inherit subordinates already in place.  Not only does it limit the HCs effectiveness by bringing in his guy to carry out his true vision, but it also creates an unhealthy dynamic where the subordinate is loyal to the owner for making his new boss keep him on, as opposed to the subordinates loyalty being to his head coach, where it belongs.  That type of arrangement invites going over your supervisors head, leaks, etc. All the toxicity that the Redskins have had since snyder has been here.  Forcing assistants onto a head coach will only continue the nonsense.  Conduct a thorough interview process, and pursue the best candidate.  Do not ask him to retain anybody. If he wants to bring in his own staff, let him, even if we lose a KOC.  If he decides KOC is who he wants, perfect, now the proper dynamic is in place.

[Thinking Skins]

14 minutes ago, KillBill26 said:

Having a QB going through different coordinators and schemes is frustrating, but I think the converse is worse: judging a candidate based on whether he will inherit subordinates already in place.  Not only does it limit the HCs effectiveness by bringing in his guy to carry out his true vision, but it also creates an unhealthy dynamic where the subordinate is loyal to the owner for making his new boss keep him on, as opposed to the subordinates loyalty being to his head coach, where it belongs.  That type of arrangement invites going over your supervisors head, leaks, etc. All the toxicity that the Redskins have had since snyder has been here.  Forcing assistants onto a head coach will only continue the nonsense.  Conduct a thorough interview process, and pursue the best candidate.  Do not ask him to retain anybody. If he wants to bring in his own staff, let him, even if we lose a KOC.  If he decides KOC is who he wants, perfect, now the proper dynamic is in place.

I agree, thats why ideally KOC gets a good opportunity to interview and can impress Rivera, Lewis or whoever himself. But I doubt that happens with Lewis because the rumors are that he wants Hue Jackson. I don't doubt Jackson's abilities  because of what he did in Oakland with Jason Campbell, but I did notice that Lewis's worse stretch as a head coach came with Jackson as OC. He couldn't get Dalton to where Gruden had gotten Dalton

[Thinking Skins]

I'll take back what I was saying about Hue Jackson and Dalton.

 

 https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/6/14/17444228/comparing-andy-dalton-during-jay-gruden-hue-jackson-eras-coaching-quarterback-play-bengals

 

Obviously, the two coaches have very different roles, so this comparison is not apples to apples. A better way to look at this is Dalton’s performance with each of three conditions; with Gruden as offensive coordinator, then Jackson as offensive coordinator, and with neither as offensive coordinator.

Dalton certainly meshed well with Gruden as his coordinator in his first three NFL seasons, and continued to thrive under Jackson in the following two seasons. In the time since, the Bengals have had troubles offensively.

In 2016, they not only lost Jackson who became the Browns’ head coach, they lost key receiving threats Mohamed Sanu and Marvin Jones Jr. to free agency and later A.J. Green to injury. In 2017, they lost their two best offensive linemen, Andrew Whitworth and Kevin Zeitler, to free agency.

 

Despite these personnel issues and the instability at the offensive coordinator position over the past two seasons, Dalton has seen a major drop off in his personal performance in one measurable category, but it is a big one.

Dalton had the highest completion percentage of his career in 2016 under offensive coordinator Ken Zampese, but this past season, he had the second lowest mark of his career in that category.

 

Clearly, there is some inconsistency there, but over the past two seasons his completion percentage was 62.3 which falls right in between the 60.8 he posted in three seasons with Gruden and the 65.2 he produced in two seasons with Jackson. He threw for an average of 237 yards per game under Gruden, 229 yards per game under Jackson, and 235 yards per game in the past two seasons showing no major difference between the three time periods.

 

Early in his career under Gruden, Dalton averaged 1.02 interceptions per game, which stands to reason because he was still developing. This number dropped to 0.83 under Jackson and dropped again to 0.63 over the past two seasons.

 

The troubling number is touchdowns per game. Dalton threw 1.7 touchdowns per game in his three seasons under Gruden, 1.5 in two seasons under Jackson, and 1.3 over the past two seasons.

 

These are Dalton’s numbers. He owns them and he should receive both the blame and the credit for them, but free agent losses and the changes at offensive coordinator certainly had an effect on the statistics.

 

It seems like Jackson wasn't the problem with Dalton, maybe Zampese, or maybe he wasn't that good of a QB to begin with. 

 

[Hogs86]

I wonder if Ron Rivera gets the job.  Who will he bring with him?

 

Head coaches Interim Head coach/Secondary – Perry Fewell Special Assistant to the Head Coach – Norv Turner Offensive coaches Offensive coordinator/Quarterbacks – Scott Turner Running game coordinator – John Matsko Running backs – Jake Peetz Wide receivers – Jim Hostler Assistant wide receivers – Jerricho Cotchery Tight ends – Pete Hoener Assistant offensive line – Travelle Wharton Offensive quality control – Drew Terrell

Defensive coaches Defensive coordinator – Eric Washington Defensive line – Sam Mills III Linebackers – Steve Russ Assistant linebackers - Everette Brown Safeties – Richard Rodgers Defensive Quality Control – Vincent Rivera Special teams coaches Special teams coordinator – Chase Blackburn Assistant special teams – Ben Jacobs Strength and conditioning Strength and conditioning – Joe Kenn

[Est.1974]

Arthur Smith from the Titans...did nothing further materialise with that chatter. I know the Titan are still technically in the playoff hunt. Maybe his name circles back around if we get jilted by the current hot names for the job.

[veteranskinsfan]

Watching the 1 pm Redzone games.  Other teams have no problems scoring.  If we do not improve our scoring ability next season we will have

another dismal season.  Haskins really needs to improve in the off-season along with our receivers.

[xxprodigyxx]

1 minute ago, veteranskinsfan said:

Watching the 1 pm Redzone games.  Other teams have no problems scoring.  If we do not improve our scoring ability next season we will have

another dismal season.  Haskins really needs to improve in the off-season along with our receivers.

...

[HigSkin]

 

[Burgold]

22 minutes ago, Hogs86 said:

I wonder if Ron Rivera gets the job.  Who will he bring with him?

 

Head coaches Interim Head coach/Secondary – Perry Fewell Special Assistant to the Head Coach – Norv Turner Offensive coaches Offensive coordinator/Quarterbacks – Scott Turner Running game coordinator – John Matsko Running backs – Jake Peetz Wide receivers – Jim Hostler Assistant wide receivers – Jerricho Cotchery Tight ends – Pete Hoener Assistant offensive line – Travelle Wharton Offensive quality control – Drew Terrell

Defensive coaches Defensive coordinator – Eric Washington Defensive line – Sam Mills III Linebackers – Steve Russ Assistant linebackers - Everette Brown Safeties – Richard Rodgers Defensive Quality Control – Vincent Rivera Special teams coaches Special teams coordinator – Chase Blackburn Assistant special teams – Ben Jacobs Strength and conditioning Strength and conditioning – Joe Kenn

Not sure about that, but the coach I most want to keep is not O'Connell. It's Hilliard. He did a heckuva job with the rookies this year. Want to keep that going.