2020 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

Kiper Q & A, the dude is so in love with Daniel Jones is nauseating.  Jones was better than I thought he would be.  But if you listen to Kiper's podcasts, the Giants got a top 10 QB, he goes way too far about him IMO.  I do agree with him about Antonio Gibson, I like him a lot.

 

https://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2020/insider/story/_/id/28997194/2020-nfl-draft-mailbag-mel-kiper-answers-15-questions-prospects-teams-picks

Where would Daniel Jones and Kyler Murray rank in this quarterback class? (via @11423_80917)

 

This is a tough one. Really tough. Because where would Murray have been picked last year if Kliff Kingsbury wasn't the coach in Arizona? That's an interesting hypothetical, which makes him the wild card. I had Murray ranked No. 6 overall on my final Big Board, while Jones was my fourth-ranked quarterback at No. 23 overall (Dwayne Haskins was No. 7; Drew Lock was No. 21).

OK, I'll take a stab at ranking them, based on my pre-draft grades:

1. Joe Burrow, LSU

2. Tua Tagovailoa, Alabama

3. Kyler Murray, Oklahoma

4. Justin Herbert, Oregon

5. Daniel Jones, Duke

6. Jordan Love, Utah State

This is not an exact science, but I'm basing this list on how I thought of Murray and Jones going into the 2019 draft.

 

...Which wide receiver is the Terry McLaurin of this draft? (via @Big305Country)

You're talking about a midround steal, right? Here's a name for you: Antonio Gibson. He is a former junior college star who spent two seasons at Memphis and really emerged in 2019, averaging 19.3 yards per catch, 11.2 yards per carry and 28 yards per kickoff return. At 6-foot, 228 pounds, Gibson is not a traditional receiver, but he could be used in several ways by a smart coaching staff, on jet sweeps and screens and quick-game concepts while he develops as a route runner. And he is extremely explosive after the catch -- he ran a 4.39 40-yard dash at the combine. Gibson's versatility makes him a perfect third-round target with upside.

 

....Which prospect could surprise us and drop to the third day of the draft (via @dubydavis)

I'll give you two names again. Colorado wide receiver Laviska Shenault Jr. had a tremendous 2018 season, then was let down by poor quarterback play last season. His numbers dropped significantly. Then, he got injured and couldn't do all of the drills at the combine, before having surgery to repair a core muscle injury in March. I just don't have a good handle on his draft range yet; he looks like a first-rounder on his 2018 tape, but he could fall if teams don't have a handle on his injury and rehab. I don't think he lasts to Round 4, but I wouldn't be completely shocked. He's a wild card.

The defender is outside linebacker Curtis Weaver, who had 23 sacks over the past two seasons at Boise State. I thought he might be a top-20 pick in November, but he didn't test well at the combine, and he has dropped to No. 8 in my OLB rankings. He's a solid prospect, just not elite.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I admit though I am mildly surprised at that.  I've been a champion of the depth of the TE class albeit agree with the idea that it lacks headliners.  But in my mind, I've been thinking the first run of TE's happens in the third round.  Sounds like Paulsen and Standig's sources are telling them its going down in the 2nd round.  I guess will see. 

 

I see the first tier of TE being Kmet and Trautman. I could definitely see them going in the 2nd. Trautman at 66 is far from a guarantee. I could also see Albert O., one of the Bryants, or even Pinckney go in the 2nd if a team loves them, but I can't see all of them being gone by 66.

 

Bryant, Bryant, Albert O. and Pinckney strike me as that 2nd tier of guys that could go anywhere between late 2nd and early 4th. Thaddeus Moss could slide into that group too, but I see him more as a R4 guy.

Then there's a slew of TEs that could go in the R4-6 range ... guys like Dalton Keane, The UCLA TE, Stephen Sullivan, Moss, etc.

 

I think we'll get one of the TEs by Round 5 or 6. IF we miss on any of the 1st/2nd tier guys at either 66 or our first pick in R4, I could see us waiting until the end of R4 or our 5th round pick to take someone like Dalton Keane or Thaddeus Moss.

 

But because of this class's depth, I am not going to freak out if Kmet, Trautman and Albert O are gone by 66.

 

I also wouldn't be opposed to going OT and WR with our 3rd and 4th and waiting until the end of the 4th or 5th to go TE, even if Trautman is there at 66. Matt Miller has Trautman as his #81 overall player. So taking him at #66 would not be BPA and would be a need-based pick ...which you shouldn't do in the 3rd or 4th round even. So I could see us passing on Trautman and Albert O. etc. at 66 just because they aren't BPA. Go WR, OT or even somewhere on the defense, and come back to TE when it makes a bit more sense to match up need and value, and that very well could be someone like Dalton Keane in Round 5.

[skinny21]

4 hours ago, DWinzit said:

The is such an incredible WR group. The Redskins would negligent if they didn't draft one.

I like Pittman by a hair over Mims in my second tier.  

When you say Jefferson if you are talking Justin Jefferson, I have him at 4 like Ledyard and at the bottom of my first tier.

The third tier I have a small crush on Antonio Gibson and have liked Van Jefferson late

Admittedly, my rankings are still fluid, I need to rewatch some guys, and some I’ve barely watched.  I expect Justin Jefferson to go ahead of Pittman because 1) that’s the way most of the draft community has it and 2) it’s where I am at the moment too.  Same with you - Pittman has been the top of my tier two for a while now.  
My point was, if teams see Pittman as more of a back of tier one guy though... that’s where I see JJ slotted too, so maybe he could go first.  Ditto Higgins and Mims IMO.  If teams weigh the analytics fairly heavily, Pittman could go before Ruggs as well.  

 

For me, Ruggs is a tough one because you’re going against the analytics if you have him tier 1, but that speed (along with other attributes) is easily 1st round worthy.  
Higgins has some questions about speed/burst (not having participated in the combine) and route tree.

Mims put up a solid combine IIRC, and answered his route tree concerns at the Senior Bowl.  
I have (again, still fluid for me)

Tier 1

Lamb

Jeudy

Justin Jefferson/Mims

Higgins/Ruggs (Ruggs belongs 3rd, but the analytics knock him down for me).  

Tier 2

Pittman

Bryan Edwards/Tyler Johnson

Etc.

 

Haven’t decided:  Shenault, Raegor, Hamler.  

 

48 minutes ago, stoshuaj said:

Apparently (per Dan Patrick) the Steelers have petitioned the league to add 3 rounds to the draft.  This will allow players that otherwise would be in their own to get seen as an udfa the opportunity to get drafted and come to camp.  

This is fascinating...

[JamesMadisonSkins]

2 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

 

This is fascinating...

 

Oh man. Make Rounds 8-10 go on Sunday. Or maybe even go another week let the dust settle on who was drafted, and then host a post-draft Rounds 8-10 the following weekend. GIve teams a week to assess their draft and look toward who is available. Basically try to eliminate the front-half of the UDFA cycle a bit by adding 3 picks per team? I love the idea. The players might not though. I know there are multiple agents that have said in the past that players prefer to be UDFA than drafted in R7 if they feel good about a team situation that they could be an UDFA in. I don't know how that would factor in here.

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

...Which wide receiver is the Terry McLaurin of this draft? (via @Big305Country)

You're talking about a midround steal, right? Here's a name for you: Antonio Gibson.

....Which prospect could surprise us and drop to the third day of the draft (via @dubydavis)

I'll give you two names again. Colorado wide receiver Laviska Shenault Jr. had a tremendous 2018 season, then was let down by poor quarterback play last season.

 

Interesting takes. I think Gibson would be really fun to watch. Could make him a Deebo Samuel type player. And since there's talk of Scott Turner loving Shenault ... I would think that if he's there at #66 the Skins run to the podium. I know he had an injury, but he's probably worth the risk there at #66. But double-dipping at WR in that scenario would be SUPER interesting to me. Add Shenault at #66 and then come back and add someone that falls into the 5th round or trade up in the 6th to get someone (ala Harmon) that falls.

 

Also, add Bryan Edwards to my love list. He's someone that, had he proven to be healthy in the off-season and been able to participate in the combine would likely be in the late 1st or early 2nd round discussion. Get that guy at #66 if he's there. I hope he is.

 

I don't suspect Edwards or Tyler Johnson would truly fall past R3 or R4. But could you imagine leaving this draft with Shenault and Edwards or Tyler Johnson? Your WR core would be young, dynamic, cheap ...

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, Koolblue13 said:

 

It would have to be a draft like that. If they announced that now, the Bengals would definitely take Young this year.

 

It would also mean that the college season is canceled. So, that's a double draft class. I suppose they could push this draft back a few months. 

 

Man, they could do a small 7 on 7 league with a small group of players that stay in a quarantined area for a few months and it would make bank being the only sport. 

 

Go contact the xfl guys about a potential 3 month quarantine and reality show. If this virus stuff lasts, it'll be the most watched televised thing ever!

 

Yeah I was thinking the same thing. It would be pretty unfair for the rest of the league if they just carried it over because there's almost zero chance that the same teams would have the same top spots if the season is held this year. The Bengals suck but if they have a decent new QB and add a couple more pieces I doubt they'll be as bad this year as the last one one. We sucked last year but we were basically playing with all rookies on offense, a makeshift line, and a lame duck coaching staff. With upgrades and hopefully Haskins and our young WRs taking a step forward I seriously doubt we'll be at #2. 

 

But if the NFL cancels this season, CFB would almost be certain to do the same. So then it would be a weird situation because you'd have guys in the draft who hadn't played in a year so you couldn't really do any true scouting on them or know how they would have developed this season. The only real locks would be guys like Lawrence and Sewell since they were already so clearly dominant that they would have been top 3 picks if they'd been able to declare this year anyway. 

 

I kinda doubt the season(s) get totally cancelled though. I could see them being pushed back by a month or two. But if this virus ends up being seasonal and it comes back in a second wave once fall gets here and things get bad again I could see them possibly cancelling. 

 

Gonna be a really weird situation.

[KDawg]

I don’t mind Jones over Jordan Love. I’d agree with that. Haskins right before Jones. 

[KDawg]

I love the idea of a 10 round draft. I’d like that to become the new norm. Teams add a ton of guys post draft. So doing 10 rounds wouldn’t be that bad. Make it a 5 day event. Wed- Sun.

 

Wed round 1, Thurs round 2, Fri round 3/4, Sat 5-7, Sun 8-10

[JamesMadisonSkins]

20 minutes ago, KDawg said:

I don’t mind Jones over Jordan Love. I’d agree with that. Haskins right before Jones. 

 

I assume Kiper left Haskins out because the question didn't include Haskins and Lock because the question only referred to Murray and Jones? Still, he references Haskins and Lock in his response so strange not to include them in the ranking.

 

If he had 2019 ranked:

#6 Murray

#7 Haskins

#21 Lock

#23 Jones

And he has Murray at 3 and Jones at 5 in this year's class ... probably safe to assume Haskins would be 4 and Lock might be 6 and bump Jones to 7?

#1 Burrow

#2 Tua

#3 Murray (#6 overall last year)

#4 Haskins (#7 overall last year)

#5 Herbert

#6 Lock (#21 overall last year)

#7 Jones (#23 overall last year)

[KDawg]

11 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I assume Kiper left Haskins out because the question didn't include Haskins and Lock because the question only referred to Murray and Jones? Still, he references Haskins and Lock in his response so strange not to include them in the ranking.

 

If he had 2019 ranked:

#6 Murray

#7 Haskins

#21 Lock

#23 Jones

And he has Murray at 3 and Jones at 5 in this year's class ... probably safe to assume Haskins would be 4 and Lock might be 6 and bump Jones to 7?

#1 Burrow

#2 Tua

#3 Murray (#6 overall last year)

#4 Haskins (#7 overall last year)

#5 Herbert

#6 Lock (#21 overall last year)

#7 Jones (#23 overall last year)

Personally I’d have it (based on last years prospectus and not with knowing the way each QB played)

 

1. Burrow

2. Tua

3. Murray

4. Herbert

5. Haskins

6. Lock

7. Jones

[JamesMadisonSkins]

9 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Personally I’d have it (based on last years prospectus and not with knowing the way each QB played)

 

Current ages of the prospects to get a feel for where they might be in their developmental process/curve:

 

1. Burrow (23.3)

2. Tua (22.1)

3. Murray (22.6)

4. Herbert (22.1)

5. Haskins (22.9)

6. Lock (23.5)

7. Jones (22.9)

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

[Est.1974]

5 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

no **** Sherlock 

[Fresh8686]

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I see the first tier of TE being Kmet and Trautman. I could definitely see them going in the 2nd. Trautman at 66 is far from a guarantee. I could also see Albert O., one of the Bryants, or even Pinckney go in the 2nd if a team loves them, but I can't see all of them being gone by 66.

 

 

I can see that including maybe a Bryant or both of them.  Pickney would shock me if he went that early.  I like him more than most.  But he had an abysmal combine.  A TE doesn't have to be fast but a 5.0, is really stretching that.

 

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

 

But because of this class's depth, I am not going to freak out if Kmet, Trautman and Albert O are gone by 66.

 

 

I wouldn't freak out either.  As I've said recently my top desire from a value stand point at TE would be Asiasi in the 4th.  I assume he will be there.  I don't mind either of the Bryants or Hopkins in the 4th or 5th.  Going further down in the draft -- Breeland, Keene or Sullivan is fine with me.

 

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

Also, add Bryan Edwards to my love list. He's someone that, had he proven to be healthy in the off-season and been able to participate in the combine would likely be in the late 1st or early 2nd round discussion. Get that guy at #66 if he's there. I hope he is.

 

I don't suspect Edwards or Tyler Johnson would truly fall past R3 or R4. But could you imagine leaving this draft with Shenault and Edwards or Tyler Johnson? Your WR core would be young, dynamic, cheap ...

 

Bryan Edwards was my first infatuation among the 2nd tier types.  Though I admit I got a lot of man crushes on receivers this time.  I'd think with his injury he will almost for sure be there at 66.  I don't love Shenault as much as the typical mock drafter but in the third round I can dig it.   I like Tyler Johnson, too.  the mystery with him is his speed -- I guess ditto Edwards. 

 

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

 

I

I also wouldn't be opposed to going OT and WR with our 3rd and 4th and waiting until the end of the 4th or 5th to go TE, even if Trautman is there at 66. 

 

I am ok with that.  It all depends on who is there.  For months my suspicion is they go CB in the 3rd maybe after a trade down.    Like WR there is a good depth at the spot and i think there is a decent chance there is a surprise faller -- someone like Arnette, Jaylon Johnson, etc. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Est.1974]

Rivera would love a whole load of picks AND Young  Can’t have both....

[skinny21]

@Skinsinparadise

  Tentatively (and I’m missing a bunch), I think I’d tier the TEs

Kmet

Trautman

Albert O

 

Hopkins

Asiasi

Bryant

Deguara

Harrison

Wilcox

 

Keene

Sullivan

Woerner
Moss

Pinckney

Breeland
Magnifico

 

I think there’s a good chance that some of the tier 3 guys belong higher, and are likely to out produce many of the others ahead of them, but I’m lacking tape on them or they didn’t have much/enough of a role to get a real feel for them.  
 

I’m a fan of Bryan Edwards.  I think the Deebo Samuels lite comparison is pretty fitting.  I could see picking him at 66, but with the depth of the receiving class... maybe not.  Rd 4 should have one or more guys I like available - Edwards, Johnson, Jefferson, DPJ, Hodgins, etc, but who knows how the FO rates these guys.  
 

As for our Rd 3 pick, I could see trading back, taking a corner or OT that falls, linebacker or going with IOL.  Less of a chance they go TE or WR in my mind, but they could have a guy they really like there.  

[Skinsinparadise]

42 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

Rivera would love a whole load of picks AND Young  Can’t have both....

 

Recently, you've been on the train that they keep hinting or their actions hint they are trading back.   I'd bet though that they don't. 

 

Every beat guy's impression for months has been they are likely staying at #2.  And like I said the Dolphins beat guys also keep saying that they aren't giving away the store to trade up to #2.  

 

So it would have to be well orchestrated smoke screen on both ends if a big trade down is happening.   

30 minutes ago, skinny21 said:

@Skinsinparadise

  Tentatively (and I’m missing a bunch), I think I’d tier the TEs

Kmet

Trautman

Albert O

 

Hopkins

Asiasi

Bryant

Deguara

Harrison

Wilcox

 

Keene

Sullivan

Woerner
Moss

Pinckney

Breeland
Magnifico

 

Mine's a little different but that's pretty close to mine. I posted mine here yesterday.

[Skinsinparadise]

New DJ mock, the Dolphins pass on Tua interesting.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108489/article/daniel-jeremiah-2020-nfl-mock-draft-30-packers-pick-a-qb?campaign=Twitter_nfl_cfb

 

 

[Est.1974]

21 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Recently, you've been on the train that they keep hinting or their actions hint they are trading back.   I'd bet though that they don't.

I have, although the whole situation has me completely conflicted..

 

Young looks truly amazing....

 

I love the draft, love the talent available picks through rounds 1-3....

 

We don’t have enough God damn picks....

 

I’d wager Rivera wants more picks....and loves Young....and wants someone to bite on a Trent for a second rounder....

 

 

[JamesMadisonSkins]

@UK SKINS FAN 74 my hope ... no my dream ... is that the OT run ends with the Browns, the Jets take one of the WRs, and call us to offer both 3rds for Trent.

 

If we went into the draft with #2 (Chase) ... 3/3/3/4/4/5 I would be soooo happy. 3.2, 3.4 and 3.15 would be very valuable picks in this draft. To move up, down, or stand pat.

[stoshuaj]

3 hours ago, KDawg said:

I love the idea of a 10 round draft. I’d like that to become the new norm. Teams add a ton of guys post draft. So doing 10 rounds wouldn’t be that bad. Make it a 5 day event. Wed- Sun.

 

Wed round 1, Thurs round 2, Fri round 3/4, Sat 5-7, Sun 8-10

Unless you are that 10th round draft pick that gets stuck on a team that is loaded at your position and you have relatively no shot at anything other than the practice squad instead of being a udfa that can pick the team where you may see weakness at your position and put yourself in the best position to take said shot.(?)

[KDawg]

2 minutes ago, stoshuaj said:

Unless you are that 10th round draft pick that gets stuck on a team that is loaded at your position and you have relatively no shot at anything other than the practice squad instead of being a udfa that can pick the team where you may see weakness at your position and put yourself in the best position to take said shot.(?)

Nope. UDFAs shouldn’t have any more ability to pick their teams than the “better“ prospects. Of course, there will be some element of UDFA, but a 10 round draft really pushes the limits of UDFA and forces teams to do their homework in more prospects and potential gems in the smaller schools. 
 

It adds a lot to the college environment for that side. 
 

They face a similar issue if they sign somewhere versus getting drafted there.  Just can’t pick. But if they impress they’ll get invited elsewhere after being cut anyways.

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

7 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

New DJ mock, the Dolphins pass on Tua interesting.

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000001108489/article/daniel-jeremiah-2020-nfl-mock-draft-30-packers-pick-a-qb?campaign=Twitter_nfl_cfb

 

Jesus Christ. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. Herbert's last 3 games were 14/20 138 yards 0 TD 1 ITN, 14/26 193 yards 1TD 0 INT, 18/30 174 yards, 1TD 0 INT. Herbert over Tua?

The draft is insanity. Herbert isn't a gamer. Never mind Herbert over Tua. Herbert over Simmons is insanity. I'd take Simmons, Jeudy, Andrew Thomas, and Wirfs over Herbert without blinking. Jeudy and Eason or any replacement level QB are more valuable than Herbert.

 

I was pretty harsh about Daniel Jones last year. That guy is like Eli Manning lite. Not worthy of a high pick. But at least nobody picked Daniel Jones over Tua or Simmons. Herbert is Josh Allen. Imagine the Bills if they had any replacement level QB and Minkah Fitzpatrick, Derwin James, or Jaire Alexander, right? They might not win the super bowl, but they would be better. I'm starting to fall in line with Volsmet. Don't spend 100 million on a QB unless he's Deshaun Watson caliber. Don't spend a top 10 pick on one either. Take a shot on a QB with a chance to be elite, or spend your high end dollars elsewhere. 

 

Also, this year's draft looks so strong compared to 2019 and 2018. Looking back at 2019, we made out. Should McLaurin have been a top 10 pick?

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2019/draft.htm

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/draft.htm

[Skinsinparadise]

36 minutes ago, UK SKINS FAN 74 said:

 

 

I’d wager Rivera wants more picks....and loves Young....and wants someone to bite on a Trent for a second rounder....

 

 

 

I've been listening to death to podcast after podcast, and they are all practically scream to me they are sticking to #2.  

 

Keim who pretty much nailed what they'd do in advance as to FA has been pretty hardcore that he'd heavily bet they are sticking to #2 and the only way they'd trade down is for a major haul but they don't expect a major haul offer coming.  And then I'd add the Dolphin reporters have been practically screaming that what they are hearing is the Dolphins have some pause about Tua and won't trade the farm to land him but might trade the farm for Burrow. 

 

I'd go as far at the moment that i'd be stunned if they trade down. Not just surprised but stunned at last based on the current smoke around the situation.  Now if that smoke changed in the next 2 weeks I'd feel differently. 

[HTTRDynasty]