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CBSSports.com: Jay Gruden not consulted about FA moves, reportedly heard about Landon Collins signing through media

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Danny never changes; he runs the team into the ground, blames the coach, allows the next regime to start bringing in talent, once that happens he takes back over and send us whirling back into the abyss!!! 

I thought our last 2 drafts showed us turning the corner in talent evaluation, they weren't perfect, but comparing them to the Vinny/Bruce talent evaluations...they were phenomenal, but it sure looks like Danny is jumping back in, we shall see??? 

 

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4 hours ago, THE HAMMER'IN HOG said:

Danny never changes; he runs the team into the ground, blames the coach, allows the next regime to start bringing in talent, once that happens he takes back over and send us whirling back into the abyss!!! 

I thought our last 2 drafts showed us turning the corner in talent evaluation, they weren't perfect, but comparing them to the Vinny/Bruce talent evaluations...they were phenomenal, but it sure looks like Danny is jumping back in, we shall see??? 

 

 

 

That's where we look at someone like Kyle Smith, who is the Director of College Scouting.  I believe his role increased greatly with the dismissal of Scot, or at least that's how the timeline is working out in my head.  

 

Where we will see if Dan is meddling, is if there is a splash at the top of the draft.   If we move up to get Haskins....  I'd borderline guarantee it means Dan's back in the fold, after seemingly falling back.  I don't think Dan is going to run the whole draft, and he'll likely on care to have his fingerprint on the top pick.  rounds 2-7, likely will still be valuable picks like the last two drafts have been..   but if no. 1 is a swing for the fences, instead oriented move.... 

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50 minutes ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

That's where we look at someone like Kyle Smith, who is the Director of College Scouting.  I believe his role increased greatly with the dismissal of Scot, or at least that's how the timeline is working out in my head.  

 

Where we will see if Dan is meddling, is if there is a splash at the top of the draft.   If we move up to get Haskins....  I'd borderline guarantee it means Dan's back in the fold, after seemingly falling back.  I don't think Dan is going to run the whole draft, and he'll likely on care to have his fingerprint on the top pick.  rounds 2-7, likely will still be valuable picks like the last two drafts have been..   but if no. 1 is a swing for the fences, instead oriented move.... 

Dans the one that pushed for the Alex Smith trade he never left...

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3 minutes ago, CjSuAvE22 said:

Dans the one that pushed for the Alex Smith trade he never left...

 

 

we didnt draft Alex Smith... I was referencing the draft specifically because that's what the post i quoted mentioned.

 

I also think Bruce was more of the coordinator of the trade for Alex... not necessarily Dan.   Now i'm not dense enough to understand that Bruce is presumably an extension of Dan, but we didn't see the Dan / player connection with Alex... not like we've already seen with Collins.  Public dinner at a top Ashburn steakhouse.  Public mention of the Jersey (although it was Collins twitter that broke that story, not the Redskins directly).   That is more the concern that I have with Dan getting involved.   I'm GLAD we got Collins, but that dinner was right up there with Bowling with RG3, or partying with Portis.  The type of thing we all thought was unnecessary.... albeit this instance was a nice gesture.   I don't have info on how many free agent / trade acquisitions Dan Snyder takes out to dinner, so that could be a regular thing... but it's few and far between that it's made to be that public.  

 

That all said, I do think that Snyder has backed away from player personnel moves, and if Alex was picked up on Dan's order... it likely was the first one in a LONG time.  Norman MAY have been, but the days of the Dan Snyder, Redskins one, fuel up the jets, you're not leaving here til you sign a contract days were gone for the most part.  He hasn't appeared to meddle, ESPECIALLY in the draft.  And if he has meddled in the draft, we've had a very good last 2 drafts.    

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

That's where we look at someone like Kyle Smith, who is the Director of College Scouting.  I believe his role increased greatly with the dismissal of Scot, or at least that's how the timeline is working out in my head.  

 

Where we will see if Dan is meddling, is if there is a splash at the top of the draft.   If we move up to get Haskins....  I'd borderline guarantee it means Dan's back in the fold, after seemingly falling back.  I don't think Dan is going to run the whole draft, and he'll likely on care to have his fingerprint on the top pick.  rounds 2-7, likely will still be valuable picks like the last two drafts have been..   but if no. 1 is a swing for the fences, instead oriented move.... 

Hopefully so? Although from what I remember from the last couple of the drafts Jay had some say with the draft, and the fact that he's being moved aside just smells like a Danny move. Couple that with the fact that we are scouting Haskins hard (who I would stay far and away from) sounds like Danny is evaluating talent again, hopefully I am very wrong!!!! 

A number 1 pick can really set a team back if it's a QB, especially if Danny is insistent on forcing a square peg of a QB through a round hole of 4 years of failure in an attempt to justify his pick, blaming everyone and everything but himself!!! 

Edited by THE HAMMER'IN HOG

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On 3/22/2019 at 8:50 AM, CjSuAvE22 said:

Dans the one that pushed for the Alex Smith trade he never left...

Lol that sh*t was all Bruce my friend. Dan only goes after household names.

 

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Posted (edited)

So Doug, Bruce and Kyle walk into Jay's office.....

 

Doug: "Hey Jay, we've got this player we think you'll be interested in. We think he can help the team".

 

Jay: "Let me get back to you, I've been focusing on the X's and O's". I'll look at film on him tonight and let you know in the morning".


Bruce and Kyle: "There's a couple teams that are interested in him, so lets be mindful of that"

 

Jay: "I got it. Damn Bruce, relax"

 

Next morning, the Jay wakes up, grabs his morning coffee and clicks on ESPN........

 

duh duh duh....duh duh duh...

 

"Top news......ESPN reports that one of the players the Redskins had their eyes on, just got picked up by another team. Reportedly Jay (who gets paid to coach) didn't get to the film in time to evaluate and approve the player"

 

What's say you uninformed NFL pundits?

 

NFL Pundit #1: I suppose the guys in player personnel who evaluate and construct the financing to get the players need to run it by Jay first (??). ha ha ha

NFL Pundit #2: You would think, Jay has already outlined the type of player he wants in certain position, right?

NFL Pundit#1: Inquiry minds want to know. We'll follow this closely as the world turns in Ashburn.

 

duh duh duh.....duh duh duh

 

Commercial: Do you suffer from irritable bowl syndrome?......

 

Me watching this bull****: "Fart"


 

Edited by joeken24
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On 3/22/2019 at 9:06 AM, OVCChairman said:

 

 

we didnt draft Alex Smith... I was referencing the draft specifically because that's what the post i quoted mentioned.

 

I also think Bruce was more of the coordinator of the trade for Alex... not necessarily Dan.   Now i'm not dense enough to understand that Bruce is presumably an extension of Dan, but we didn't see the Dan / player connection with Alex... not like we've already seen with Collins.  Public dinner at a top Ashburn steakhouse.  Public mention of the Jersey (although it was Collins twitter that broke that story, not the Redskins directly).   That is more the concern that I have with Dan getting involved.   I'm GLAD we got Collins, but that dinner was right up there with Bowling with RG3, or partying with Portis.  The type of thing we all thought was unnecessary.... albeit this instance was a nice gesture.   I don't have info on how many free agent / trade acquisitions Dan Snyder takes out to dinner, so that could be a regular thing... but it's few and far between that it's made to be that public.  

 

That all said, I do think that Snyder has backed away from player personnel moves, and if Alex was picked up on Dan's order... it likely was the first one in a LONG time.  Norman MAY have been, but the days of the Dan Snyder, Redskins one, fuel up the jets, you're not leaving here til you sign a contract days were gone for the most part.  He hasn't appeared to meddle, ESPECIALLY in the draft.  And if he has meddled in the draft, we've had a very good last 2 drafts.    

 

 

 

 

i am all in for dan bashing when he deserves it. But I think the reports of spending individual time with specific players is blown out of proportion. All owners do this. Dan is not unique. Maybe he was over the top with Robert but outside of that the rest is pretty normal. Most owners have personal relationships with their top players. It's part of why they own a team. 

 

Also, all owners have final say in player moves - especially major moves like signing a high priced FA. Where i think dan goes to far is that he provides input on who to a point it's an order not a suggestion. 

 

Only the guys in the room know for sure how much dan is involved. But if the people around the team are to be believed, it's less than it was but he still likes to make some decisions. For me, the dinners and personal relationships are not a problem. Him deciding to play GM, even if it's just from time to time is where he goes awry. 

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I know some on here are responding to this with " jay is part of the FA process, but he might not know every detail" or "L Collins is a defensive guy, jay doesn't need to be privy to that side of the ball", but my problem with this situation is why does jay feel the need to announce he didn't know until he heard it through the media.  How does he not realize the criticism and negativity that remark would lead to?  Or is that what he wants bc he is legimately upset with the lack of communication?  In that case, whining to the media is not a constructive way to handle it.  

 

It's kind of like when Doug found out about the smith trade and told the world how he was told to keep his phone off until the morning.   Do we need all these negative announcements that lead everyone to wonder if dysfunction exists behind the scenes?  Can't they keep it in house and articulate to your co workers why you disagree with such an approach?  And if it's a "cry for help" and nothing is done about it, I guess we are stuck in a situation where there is no hope for a constructive working relationship as long as Snyder and Allen are here.  It just proves Snyder and Allen are going to do it their way without any care with how their employees / the world react to it (very likely), and that only proves their extreme incompetence.  

 

But my main takeaway is how moments like these reflect how everyone involved is handling the situation in a poor manner, and that's why our front office is/will be a laughingstock.

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Posted (edited)

I don't think it was Gruden who complained to the media.   My read is that it was other internal sources who were leaking to the media about Gruden's internally expressed dissatisfaction with how Allen & Co. were conducting free agency. 

 

While I'm sure Gruden was amenable to the idea of Collins replacing the departed Swearinger... I suspect he WAS caught off-guard by the size of the contract and how it dried up most of the remaining funds needed to bring in decent help at WR, linebacker(s), O-line help, and other areas of need. 

 

I suspect while his opinion is asked about the talent and fit of potentially new personnel, Gruden doesn't have much say in how much is spent on actually acquiring players targeted as roster-worthy.  .... So, would Jay have been willing to pay that much for Collins if it meant there'd be no additional FA help at the other trouble spots?

Edited by Wyvern
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22 hours ago, goskins10 said:

 

i am all in for dan bashing when he deserves it. But I think the reports of spending individual time with specific players is blown out of proportion. All owners do this. Dan is not unique. Maybe he was over the top with Robert but outside of that the rest is pretty normal. Most owners have personal relationships with their top players. It's part of why they own a team. 

 

Also, all owners have final say in player moves - especially major moves like signing a high priced FA. Where i think dan goes to far is that he provides input on who to a point it's an order not a suggestion. 

 

Only the guys in the room know for sure how much dan is involved. But if the people around the team are to be believed, it's less than it was but he still likes to make some decisions. For me, the dinners and personal relationships are not a problem. Him deciding to play GM, even if it's just from time to time is where he goes awry. 

 

 

I have no issue with the relationships at all.  I'll freely admit that I'd likely do similar things if i was in his position.  Like i said in my post, it very well could be a regular thing.   What I don't want to see is Dan's relationships with top players, becoming a distraction. 

 


What I don't want to see is an RG3 situation where it was clear he had a relationship, then the writing on the wall pointed to Dan forcing him onto the field, and undermining the coach.... which i guess would fall into the 'deciding to play GM' part of the conversation.  You're right, i don't care what he does.  The Landon Collins dinner was a nice gesture.  It's also likely that Collins is going to be one of the hardest working players in the locker room, and far and away our best safety, so preferential treatment won't be apparent.  As long as Dan's relationship doesn't dictate who plays, I don't care.  

 

I wasn't trying to blow it out of proportion, just putting a notch in the bedpost.  That's not saying anything inflammatory, that now that he and Collins went to dinner, that Collins is going to become a problem, because I don't think he will...  In fact, Ryan Anderson was at the dinner, Collins referenced him as part of the story getting the jersey.  Anderson is not a top free agent, a top draft pick, or even a captain on the team.   I also believe there were other players there, which  mitigates the favor factor even further.   Who knows, all his college teammates from Alabama could have been there.  (man If i could get a hold of the server / manager on duty that night and dig into who was at the table that would be great!).  

 

Dan's allowed to do whatever he wants, and I'm not gonna stop him... I just hope when it comes to business, the business makers are making business decisions.. thats all.  

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Posted (edited)

Morning Zoo makes easy radio.

 

At the time of the 'scoop', we had made 2 signings.

 

Front Office: "Hey Jay, what do you think about us giving DRC a one year throwaway contract so he can give us some depth and mentor these young kids?"
Jay:"Huh? Why do you need my approval on this?"

 

Morning Zoo "reporter": Say, what did Jay think about signing DRC?
Source: Man, they don't bother him with small potatoes stuff like that. he's busy on other stuff.

 

Morning zoo guy: Hey guys, i have a SOURCE telling me Jay Gruden is a cuckolded clown!

Morning zoo producer; Sounds like easy radio all day long for the station! All Clown Sports radio!

Local toxic media gleefully plays along, runs stories all day with obligatory hang-dog picture of Gruden, insuring fan hysteria.

 

 

(OR.. January: hey Jay, we're going to move on Collins, then nobody else except a couple of 1 yr camp fodder and depth guys, ok? 

Jay: Sounds good.)

 

OR...  and this is the one too many fans believe..

FO: (early January)  Hey we should fire Jay. Lots of good coaches out there.

...  NO,, let's not fire him, lets slice off his balls and hang them on the locker room door 6 weeks later by dropping a devastating story on the Morning Zoo.

The only question that remains.... should we drop the bombshell and shade our coach after their "did you bang your wife this weekend" segment, or before?

 

 

There's no way this still has any legs, right?

 

~Bang

 

 

Edited by Bang
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1 hour ago, OVCChairman said:

 

 

I have no issue with the relationships at all.  I'll freely admit that I'd likely do similar things if i was in his position.  Like i said in my post, it very well could be a regular thing.   What I don't want to see is Dan's relationships with top players, becoming a distraction. 

 


What I don't want to see is an RG3 situation where it was clear he had a relationship, then the writing on the wall pointed to Dan forcing him onto the field, and undermining the coach.... which i guess would fall into the 'deciding to play GM' part of the conversation.  You're right, i don't care what he does.  The Landon Collins dinner was a nice gesture.  It's also likely that Collins is going to be one of the hardest working players in the locker room, and far and away our best safety, so preferential treatment won't be apparent.  As long as Dan's relationship doesn't dictate who plays, I don't care.  

 

I wasn't trying to blow it out of proportion, just putting a notch in the bedpost.  That's not saying anything inflammatory, that now that he and Collins went to dinner, that Collins is going to become a problem, because I don't think he will...  In fact, Ryan Anderson was at the dinner, Collins referenced him as part of the story getting the jersey.  Anderson is not a top free agent, a top draft pick, or even a captain on the team.   I also believe there were other players there, which  mitigates the favor factor even further.   Who knows, all his college teammates from Alabama could have been there.  (man If i could get a hold of the server / manager on duty that night and dig into who was at the table that would be great!).  

 

Dan's allowed to do whatever he wants, and I'm not gonna stop him... I just hope when it comes to business, the business makers are making business decisions.. thats all.  

 

I agree 100% with everything you said, especially the last statement. I think we are very much aligned. I also realize after re-reading, it appeared I was saying you were blowing it out of proportion. I was more talking about the media and some parts of the fan base. Was not directed at your personally. Sorry for not making that clear. I typically try to. 

 

This goes to the larger issue I have with the team in general. If people would just stay in their lane, I believe it would work better. But it seems like Bruce and Dan like all this chaos and people being responsible for things that are not their strong suit, including them at times. Make the roles clearly defined and let people do their jobs. But Bruce, and Dan by proxy do not seem to want that. For Bruce it means shelter for his mishandling of the team. He can always find a scapegoat. Not sure what Dan gets out of it. Maybe feeling lie he is a "football"? If I owned the team I would rather win and have people think I know nothing about football, than to try and be a "football" guy and lose. Sorry, I know I am making sense. No place for that in this organization. 

It's just like raising kids. Give them very specific guidelines so they know what's expected of them. With the Redskins FO, at least from the outside it is not clear who is doing what. Maybe that's just my perception and the reality is in the building people know exactly what thier responsibilities are. If that's the case, considering how much of an utter failure the FO has been for the most part, that is more frightening. I prefer to think they lack structure than to think they have structure and still fail miserably. 

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"Fan hysteria" 🤣

 

Perhaps their used to be, but I find it difficult to call what's going on over the past several years "hysteria".  You saw the crowds last season.  You'll see less this upcoming season.  It's fan apathy.  And when fans hear stuff like Jay not being involved with FA, it's just something to talk about that seems believable based on what we know of this current configuration of the organization.  

 

The only way hysteria is coming back is if a morning DJ puts out there that Dan is selling the team, Bruce is being removed entirely, or something of that nature.  You know, something that might actually bring folks back into the fold.

 

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On 3/26/2019 at 9:54 AM, goskins10 said:

 

I agree 100% with everything you said, especially the last statement. I think we are very much aligned. I also realize after re-reading, it appeared I was saying you were blowing it out of proportion. I was more talking about the media and some parts of the fan base. Was not directed at your personally. Sorry for not making that clear. I typically try to. 

 

This goes to the larger issue I have with the team in general. If people would just stay in their lane, I believe it would work better. But it seems like Bruce and Dan like all this chaos and people being responsible for things that are not their strong suit, including them at times. Make the roles clearly defined and let people do their jobs. But Bruce, and Dan by proxy do not seem to want that. For Bruce it means shelter for his mishandling of the team. He can always find a scapegoat. Not sure what Dan gets out of it. Maybe feeling lie he is a "football"? If I owned the team I would rather win and have people think I know nothing about football, than to try and be a "football" guy and lose. Sorry, I know I am making sense. No place for that in this organization. 

It's just like raising kids. Give them very specific guidelines so they know what's expected of them. With the Redskins FO, at least from the outside it is not clear who is doing what. Maybe that's just my perception and the reality is in the building people know exactly what thier responsibilities are. If that's the case, considering how much of an utter failure the FO has been for the most part, that is more frightening. I prefer to think they lack structure than to think they have structure and still fail miserably. 

 

 

 

You're good bud, no personal shot taken for anything.

 

i'm on the same page you are.  I think Dan, to this point, has not been a very good owner.  I've been pleased with what he's done over the last 2 - 3 years where it APPEARED he was not the decision maker.  The problem?  The person who IS the decision maker.  Bruce Allen.  Had Dan done this with the right person, I think we're a successful franchise.  Again, this is the on the surface appearance.  I'm sure there is more going on behind the scenes, but if you're winning.. who really cares?  There are a few things that Dan has done to prevent us from actually winning.   Those things seemed to have fallen off in recent years.  


Here is where it gets hairy.  The franchise is not successful, so he may feel he needs to intervene and get more involved.  IF he's in fact taken a step back, now he can look and say "See what happens when I put someone else in charge?!"  I think he just put the wrong person in charge, and I think there is a large group of people who agrees with that.  The issue, that I can come up with, is that Dan is not willing to admit he's not the smartest person in the room.... regardless of the subject matter.  He's not looking at the team like "what am I doing wrong."   He's looking at the team like "what are the people that work for me doing wrong."  Therefore he'll bring in the most qualified people he can find, but doesn't change his business strategy.  He may know he doesn't know everything he needs to know about football, but he doesn't realize that the football is what drives the business, because he doesn't see anything wrong with how he's running his business.  It's everyone else's fault. 

 

I've been in management for a little while now as I'm working my way up through my company.  I'm proud of where i've come, but i'll be the first one to tell you that I didn't truly make any progress until i adapted the idea that i'm always training my replacement.  I've had that mentality now, and it's paid off very well in my advancement.  I also had a hard time accepting, but have learned to embrace, the fact that I'm not the smartest person in the room.  You can always learn something.  If Dan would take that approach, this team could be one of the great ones... and NOBODY would care who he hung out with outside of the team facility.  In fact, it would be embraced and celebrated, not knocked and criticized.   You're right... to expect things coming out of Ashburn to 'make sense' is a reach anymore.  It's sad to say that too.  When we hired Scot, it 'made sense.'  Lafemina 'made sense' too. Gibbs 2.0, Shanahan, even the hiring of Gruden.  They all 'make sense' on the surface when the moves were made.  The problem is that the moves make sense but the structure supporting those moves dont. 


What would 'make sense' to ME now?  Fire Bruce, elevate Schaeffer and Smith and let them run the franchise.  I don't care who has the 'title' of GM, but the two of them work together.  I'd also move on from Jay, BEFORE we add a QB.  These are the things that 'make sense' for the LONG term.  Problem is that's not whats going to happen.  SO... what WILL happen?

 

We'll likely trade up for a QB.  That move would 'Make Sense' because we don't have that guy yet. 

We'll probably spend multiple picks on playmakers in the rounds after that, because we do need depth and team speed.  

We'll have a positive graded draft, because that's the trend over the last 2 years

We'll re-sign Scherff, again, the trend lately is to extend our O-linemen (Williams / Moses). 

 

All of these things 'make sense' but we'll likely be fighting to stay around .500 this coming season, and it'll be cut / paste going into next year on this board.  

 

wow... I rambled, I'm sorry.  

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Posted (edited)

I feel bad for Jay. I have been rough on him at times, but we can only imagine the bull**** he has to deal with.

 

Bull**** that likely makes his job a lot harder on game days.

 

It was obvious something was very wrong, when Bruce forced him to go address the media storm the day after getting Reuben Foster.  That is not the type of move that should be rationalized by a head coach, about a player that wouldn't even play that season.  He has a team to run, and a game plan to build. Not being asked about if he spoke to Reuben's girlfriend 🤦‍♂️


What a cluster ****.  Maybe he will try to get fired sooner than later.  Maybe the plan is already in motion.  Calling a few swinging gates ought to do the trick. The problem is, Bruce doesn't want to have to break in a new coach, someone will give him free reign over the team.

Edited by RandyHolt

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