RandyHolt Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Only we could botch cutting a player to make a statement. In a position of need. And when the season is officially over. Oops. Lucky for us he didn't have to play for Barry. He wouldn't have made it a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 1 hour ago, Rufus T Firefly said: Apart from the silliness of claiming getting value for letting a player go is the exact same as not getting value for letting a player go, your characterization of that trade is just wrong. Collins was dealt for a 3rd round comp pick that everyone knew they were going to get, and if it wasn't conveyed the Patriots would have gotten Cleveland's early 4th round pick. If you're going to act like you know everything, you should at least know some things. well,i suppose if the point o the post was the value, i'd agree,, but the point is they fired him. Instantly, a solid non-problem player. Because he spoke out. ONCE. This fan base wants discipline and accountability until it happens, then they scream like kids. Let's just assume a little. Assumption: Even if they suspended him to try for value, they are not going to be with him next year... safe to say>? This is a firing offense. Assumption: assuming everyone knows this, which they do, what can they get from people who know they won't have to offer anything if they just sit back? No ham. No bread. No mustard. Assumption. This will now be his 5th team in nearly as many years. This factors into teams who want to sign players. Is this guy a problem? According to all the stickers on his suitcase,, he is. No one will trade anything for a headache they know will be available. DJ is not the difference between a Super Bowl or not for anyone... especially given the risk to your locker room if he doesnt like a call, or he ****s up and points the finger loudly elsewhere AGAIN. i don't know everything. But I can read, and I can follow history. Guys who keep getting fired... keep getting fired because of themselves. And in such a small fraternity,, guys who keep getting fired because they fail again and again to respect their coaches or the sanctity of a closed locker room don't get too many more opportunities. Certainly do not command value. From the other side: Assumption: teams will give up something for a problem player who can't stick on even a dysfunctional team, knowing full well he is either going to b cut, or will make the team worse by being allowed to stay. assumption: (from some) a problem player given free reign in the locker room to say whatever he wants will help attract free agents. conversley cutting him for 'speaking the truth' will scare them off. (redskins fans:" I'm tired of being the team players use when they just want a paycheck!) uhh... Assumption: Psyche!,, not an assumption,, these are the players we will attract. And the guys we have who want to win and know what it takes? they will look for any reason to leave and go to an organization to help them do that. This is the main theme throughout the Snyder era. Good players leave, **** players come. suddenly this debacle will be different? Somehow this time good players will say "Now THIS is a dysfunctional locker room that wants to win!".. Guess again. ) it's not about knowing everything, it's about a logical look at it. This isn't about the coaches, this is about the players who WILL be here next year.. the guys we've drafted recently to start to build a cornerstone. You can fire the coaches, and still maintain that integrity among the players.. but let the players feel that they can just bad mouth anyone they want to in the press, and that integrity will be destroyed. This is not an assumption. and it doesn't take any sort of genius to know it. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 7 minutes ago, Bang said: Assumption: assuming everyone knows this, which they do, what can they get from people who know they won't have to offer anything if they just sit back? No ham. No bread. No mustard. That's an assumption I wouldn't make in this case. DJ, is now an alternate Pro-Bowl player, so he does have some value. And some teams have already called his agent I believe, especially those with Playoffs indications. So we could have gotten something. 11 minutes ago, Bang said: Assumption. This will now be his 5th team in nearly as many years. This factors into teams who want to sign players. Is this guy a problem? According to all the stickers on his suitcase,, he is. No one will trade anything for a headache they know will be available. DJ is not the difference between a Super Bowl or not for anyone... especially given the risk to your locker room if he doesnt like a call, or he ****s up and points the finger loudly elsewhere AGAIN. The guy have been in: Houston (2013: 2-14 / 2014: 9-7) Tampa Bay (2015: 6-10) - He only stayed for 7 games there. Arizona (2015: 13-3 / 2016: 7-8-1) Washington (2017: 7-9 / 2018: 7-9 or 8-8). We can agree that those teams aren't exactly great teams besides 2015 Cards. So I would rather think that the guy has a problem with losing. If the guys signs for the Saints or Pats before the playoffs, he'll hardly complain (though the saints have been a surprise on D this year). He's not exactly the kind of diva you could get with a Terrell Owens or such. He's a guy voicing his opinion when the team lose. It's more the way he says it that is wrong than what he said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Teams have called his agent, but this is for a playoff push on teams desperate for defensive help.. not the same as a guy on the block during the trading period. He doesn't like losing... but it doesn't occur to him that his attitude and loud mouth contributes to everyone losing, that sending the message in your locker room that the coaches should be ignored is part of the problem... so much so that loser teams decide rather quickly that they are better off without him. You're right, he probably won't complain if he signs on with a playoff team. Til he doesn't like something, or he gets burned by a TE and needs to throw up a finger. I guess the lesson here is "be the worst teammate you can and eventually you will receive big rewards". I doubt it. The Chiefs may call, but that is desperation. Desperation is a lot different than desire. ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bang Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 1 hour ago, max21 said: That’s true but we’re not winners. We’re not the patriots and we never will be, unless they clean entire house. This situation was poorly resolved by Redskins management just like many other things. The Patriots would also never sign Foster and they would have dropped Nicholson immediately. DJ will be missed in the backfield, are you ready for Troy Apke to get Burned next year? The Patriots didn't used to be these Patriots either. Gotta start somewhere. Apke .. I very much doubt he's our starting safety. I'd bet ten bucks against it today. (They signed Foster mid-season as an emergency player.. lets be clear here.. foster responded to fans attacking him personally. Did y'all read what he was getting? Now, I will agree he should have never said anything back, but there is a MAJOR difference between a moment of weakness against people not connected to the team viciously attacking you, and a pattern of running your mouth and undermining your coaches in every locker room you've been a part of.) ~Bang Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etowneric Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 3 hours ago, Bang said: It is amusing to think we could GET a ham sandwich. And this comes directly thru the Random Fan GM pipeline. ~Bang Sua cravens got a pick. DJ was a alternate pro bowler. At least a 7th in 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max21 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 59 minutes ago, Bang said: The Patriots didn't used to be these Patriots either. Gotta start somewhere. Apke .. I very much doubt he's our starting safety. I'd bet ten bucks against it today. (They signed Foster mid-season as an emergency player.. lets be clear here.. foster responded to fans attacking him personally. Did y'all read what he was getting? Now, I will agree he should have never said anything back, but there is a MAJOR difference between a moment of weakness against people not connected to the team viciously attacking you, and a pattern of running your mouth and undermining your coaches in every locker room you've been a part of.) ~Bang I agree, cheers mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cooleyfan1993 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Swearinger going back to the cardinals apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CousinsCowgirl84 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 4 minutes ago, Cooleyfan1993 said: Swearinger going back to the cardinals apparently. yuck... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max21 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Sheesh back to Arizona?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Emotions lead to embarrassment. What a dreadfully shortsighted emotional move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Those making the argument about him playing for 4 teams may need to amend their narrative now that he’s been claimed by the Cardinals. They know him well, they missed what he brought, they got him back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, volsmet said: Emotions lead to embarrassment. What a dreadfully shortsighted emotional move. How do we know this is an emotional response? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volsmet Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 6 minutes ago, Die Hard said: How do we know this is an emotional response? How do we know water is wet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 11 minutes ago, volsmet said: Those making the argument about him playing for 4 teams may need to amend their narrative now that he’s been claimed by the Cardinals. They know him well, they missed what he brought, they got him back. They won’t. They will come up with another excuse as to why it was a great move to cut a guy without trying to trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Voice_of_Reason Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 I am in a tough spot because I have been one of those advocating instilling discipline by taking guts out to rhe parking lot and firing them in public to make a point. Just to instill the discipline in the entire organization that you were accountable for your actions. So, on its face, I’m fine with releasing a player who was told (according to JP Finley, who says he was told) multiple times not to go to the media. That’s insubordination and needs to be nipped in the bud. Flip side, I’m also inclined to believe DJ, and trust he’s got a legitimate beef about the way the team practices, is prepared, and the calling of the game. So, while on one side I’m ok releasing DJ for insubordination, it’s tough because you’re releasing a good player, fan favorite who was probably right. Shrug. If I KNEW Jay, Bruce and Manusky were all going to be fired, I’d probably say suspend DJ and let the next coach/GM deal with it. But since it looks like they’re all coming back... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 So, just for a flip side argument. What if DJ tried to handle it the right way? What if he made his complaints to his his position coach, then DC, and finally up to Gruden and worked his way up the ladder, citing his fears that the lackadaisical approach to practices was harming their chances or that the change in scheme was harming the team? What if he did all that and no one addressed it and the team continued to loaf and failed to adapt the scheme leading to the same weaknesses being exploited game after game after game. What then? Is there ever a point where it's a good idea to go above their head and try to force their hand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dav87sc Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 38 minutes ago, volsmet said: Those making the argument about him playing for 4 teams may need to amend their narrative now that he’s been claimed by the Cardinals. They know him well, they missed what he brought, they got him back. So, being picked up by the last team that cut him and which has the worst record in the NFL is something that shows value? Exactly how does that change the narrative? He went from a mediocre team to the worst team.....so much for the narrative about being picked up by a playoff contender for cheap $$$$. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinsfan35yrs. Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 On 12/24/2018 at 1:33 PM, UK SKINS FAN '74 said: DJ's third strike was out. Can't be a dick forever is the message. He's kind of indicted a split between her DL group and the LB/DB group. Maybe that's because one is good and the other sucks. Not fully defending the FO at all, buts he's done a couple of years here which is one more than most other places. I sugested a complete overhaul was needed at ILB and DB. Reckon one is coming. Yeah but they way they take years to to implement, by the time the last piece is in place the first piece is either moved on, hurt, traded or got old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildbunny Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 Cardinals just claimed DJ off waivers... Just posting it here. for info not gonna go in BHRBN as it's not redskins relayed anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dav87sc Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, Burgold said: Is there ever a point where it's a good idea to go above their head and try to force their hand? As a thought exercise, say he did all that, and the first time he tried to force their hand he was told to stop, don't do it again. To rinse and repeat efforts to try and force the hand several more times then, IMO, moves to being intentionally oppositional and disrespectful. It moves from a position of attempting to be an agent for positive change to a peeing contest with a supervisor. It is a rare circumstance that the supervisor does not win out - regardless whether the original complaint/observation was correct. While DJ played well for us, i do not put him in the category of being that rare exception type player to win that contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 13 minutes ago, skinsfan35yrs. said: Yeah but they way they take years to to implement, by the time the last piece is in place the first piece is either moved on, hurt, traded or got old This is my biggest fear with the way this franchise builds a team. As an example, Allen, Payne, Ionnidis and Settle are really good building blocks unfortunately, at the rate this team goes by the time we find edge rushers, linebackers and secondary help...our defensive front line will be ready to apply for social security. We wasted guys like Trent Williams and Kerrigan because we couldn’t build around them and we will do the same to our studs up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dont Taze Me Bro Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 23 hours ago, TryTheBeal! said: Every dude we have let go the past 10 years automatically sparks the pearl-clutching/hand-wringing ZOMG trade silliness. Swearinger has been with 4 teams in his career. He has never been traded...and he never will be traded. My frustration with all of this is the fact the front office didn't bother to let this blow over and get into the off-season and put him on the trade block to see if any other teams were interested. I've said in other posts in this thread, if nobody is interested that's fine, cut him or keep him, but at least act like a competent FO and go through the motions. It would be one thing if we had a great FO and organization that yielded teams that are consistently making the playoffs or contending of Super Bowls and not stuck in mediocre hell every year and just cut him with one week left. But we aren't, it's been 27 seasons since we won more than 10 games (14 in the 1991 season) and we have only won 10 games three times during that span. Add to the frustration that Jay did absolutely nothing to discipline him the other times he ran his mouth to the media, which he should have set the tone after the first incident and fined him/benched him/etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyst Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 23 minutes ago, dav87sc said: So, being picked up by the last team that cut him and which has the worst record in the NFL is something that shows value? Exactly how does that change the narrative? He went from a mediocre team to the worst team.....so much for the narrative about being picked up by a playoff contender for cheap $$$$. This seems like a really hard concept for some lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Die Hard Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 1 hour ago, volsmet said: How do we know water is wet. Who’s emotional response? What was their emotion? How do we know that this wasn’t an intellectual-cognitive response? There’s just a lot of assumptions here.... based on a lot of emotional responses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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