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An assault on American voters is underway


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2 hours ago, Kilmer17 said:

That's not even talking about the assault both parties fuel even they are accepting the result.  Talking about popular vote like it matters, or how a few thousand votes would change things all call into question the legitimacy of our system.

 

Are you suggesting that our system is perfect and any call to reform flaws in it amount to an attack on democracy itself and are the same as lying about a conspiracy to commit massive voter fraud?  Whataboutism again.  False equivalency again.  I know that you know you're doing it.  But here goes the refutation anyway: There is a difference between pointing out antidemocratic flaws in our system of government that need reform like the EC and partisan districting on the one hand, and making an utterly unsubstantiated claim that you lost elections due to a massive conspiracy of voter fraud.  The EC and partisan districting do in fact exist.  The massive fraud conspiracy doesn't.  But that's not what the Republican attack is about.  It's not about pushing for reforms to our system to make it more fair and democratic, it's a bunch of lies about conspiracies that are intended to reinforce tribal loyalty in the base.

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When one side questions the legitimacy of an election, it damages the faith in our democracy.

4 minutes ago, Cooked Crack said:

Good thing I didn't respond. The threat to our democracy is claims about the GOP gerrymander instead of the gerrymander itself?

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One sides gerrymander is the other sides fair district.  But that's been explained and ignored enough times already.

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Remember when a bunch of democrats said trump’s presidency wasn’t legitimate following election night?

 

funny how some of you didn’t have a problem with that. All the sudden election results are precious to you. 

 

(I had and have a problem with both)

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1 minute ago, Kilmer17 said:

That's certainly your opinion of them.

 

I remember when @Predicto was still around, that you used an argument like this with him and he said "I never took you for a relativist Kilmer."  You've changed man.  Do you realize that Trumpism is changing you too?  If nothing else, he's eroding your loyalty to and belief in an objective truth.

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7 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

 

I remember when @Predicto was still around, that you used an argument like this with him and he said "I never took you for a relativist Kilmer."  You've changed man.  Do you realize that Trumpism is changing you too?  If nothing else, he's eroding your loyalty to and belief in an objective truth.

 

I don’t think this is accurate at all. I don’t even think he likes trump. Pretty sure he’s been outspoken against him and voting against him. 

Just now, mistertim said:

 

Er...which Democrats were out there saying that the vote was fraudulent?

 

I can’t remember them all

 

i do remeber I trashed one of them in the thread we were all discussing and someone pointed out they were a civil rights leader as if that was an excuse for behaving like such scum. 

 

Pretty sure we had some posters also claiming the results were fabricated or that the presidency wasn’t legitimate too l ;) 

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12 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

I don’t think this is accurate at all. I don’t even think he likes trump. Pretty sure he’s been outspoken against him and voting against him. 

 

I can’t remember them all

 

i do remeber I trashed one of them in the thread we were all discussing and someone pointed out they were a civil rights leader as if that was an excuse for behaving like such scum. 

 

Pretty sure we had some posters also claiming the results were fabricated or that the presidency wasn’t legitimate too l ;) 

 

Well yeah, you're always going to have some groups of people who say stuff like that in pretty much any hotly contested election. I meant were there actual Democratic Reps, Senators, spokespeople, etc who came out and were publicly throwing the "fraud" grenade out all over the place like what's happening now?

Edited by mistertim
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9 minutes ago, mistertim said:

 

Well yeah, you're always going to have some groups of people who say stuff like that in pretty much any hotly contested election. I meant were there actual Democratic Reps, Senators, spokespeople, etc who came out and were publicly throwing the "fraud" grenade out all over the place like what's happening now?

Absolutely. They went on talk shows and spoke at press conferences

 

 

apparently it went unnoticed :ols:

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1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said:

I think constant claims that the GOP wins because of gerrymandering damages our democracy.

 

I'm not sure if you misunderstood what was meant by the current attack they are describing.  This is a disinformation machine in this country like we have never seen before, the highest office is pushing propaganda and conspiracy theories whenever it suits them.  Elections are always done when GOP is winning, so this is different.

 

As for your post of garymandering, Georgia is the perfect example of how GOP has set the state up for total control in order to suppress people that disagree with them.  That absolutely does damage our democracy.

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If I remember correctly, and no i don't have any sides on this, I was also reading a number of comments on this forum/elsewhere from folks saying that there was electoral fraud by Republicans and how they should demand recounts and corruption against Republican for tight races Democrats were losing/lost.

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dang it.  That was a funny too!  Stupid filter.

4 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

it's like some of ya got together and said, "hey, let's see if we could simulate what it would be like if it were cats having a discussion..."

Are you calling everyone the p word?

Edited by Kilmer17
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18 minutes ago, steve09ru said:

If I remember correctly, and no i don't have any sides on this, I was also reading a number of comments on this forum/elsewhere from folks saying that there was electoral fraud by Republicans and how they should demand recounts and corruption against Republican for tight races Democrats were losing/lost.

 

I suspect what some here are remembering incorrectly was the discussion on how the electoral college is broken and outdated. But again, that's just my opinion. 

 

I don't recall any pundits claiming fraud by the GOP other than the typical questioning of certain people and their voting rights at the ballot place and the mysterious purging of voter rolls a few months before.

Edited by The Evil Genius
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3 hours ago, Kilmer17 said:

When one side questions the legitimacy of an election, it damages the faith in our democracy.

One sides gerrymander is the other sides fair district.  But that's been explained and ignored enough times already.

That's bull**** and you know it.

EVERYONE knows the game being played and everyone has seen the rulings that have come down against the Republicans and their racially motivated gerrymandering.

No one thinks those are fair...no one.

 

If you want to talk fair then let's put redistricting in the hands of bi-partisan groups to make sure that everyone is equally represented in districts that make sense.

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  • Jumbo changed the title to An assault on American voters is underway

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