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An assault on American voters is underway


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Just now, AsburySkinsFan said:

That's bull**** and you know it.

EVERYONE knows the game being played and everyone has seen the rulings that have come down against the Republicans and their racially motivated gerrymandering.

No one thinks those are fair...no one.

 

If you want to talk fair then let's put redistricting in the hands of bi-partisan groups to make sure that everyone is equally represented in districts that make sense.

Like the one just happened in Maryland?  

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https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/07/federal-judges-toss-maryland-congressional-map-for-partisan-gerrymandering-973245

The judges unanimously ordered Maryland to redraw two of its House districts before the 2020 election, saying Democratic leaders improperly broke up a Republican-leaning seat in Western Maryland when they crafted the map after the 2010 Census.

 

As for it being racially motivated, you should read the book "rat ****ed" it explains in great detail how the Congressional Black Caucus is complicit in the drawing of many maps, especially in the south.  So while it is racially motivated, it's not with racial animosity.  In fact, the "gerrymandering" has benefitted black candidates tremendously.

 

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Check out the Wisconsin differentials between numbers of Democrats voting and the number of seats they won against the number of Republicans voting and their seats, note it's not even close. Less Republicans voting got about 2/3 of the seats. You know Walker and the Republican controlled legislature gerrymandered the hell out of Wisconsin. 

 

Neither political party should solely be in charge of districting.

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1 minute ago, LadySkinsFan said:

Check out the Wisconsin differentials between numbers of Democrats voting and the number of seats they won against the number of Republicans voting and their seats, note it's not even close. Less Republicans voting got about 2/3 of the seats. You know Walker and the Republican controlled legislature gerrymandered the hell out of Wisconsin. 

 

Neither political party should solely be in charge of districting.

In Massachussettes, GOP candidates received appx 1/3 of the votes for Congressional seats.  

 

They have ZERO reps in Congress.

 

Is that okay?

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2 minutes ago, LadySkinsFan said:

If MA districts drawn without bias, then yes it's okay. 

 

But my example of Wisconsin is germane because those districts were drawn with bias.

Who decides what is and is not biased?  I would argue that even the "Non poilitcal committees" have some bias.  At some point, a human has to draw lines, or program the computer that draws them.  It's impossible to avoid.  It can be mitigated, but again, who decides what is good enough and what is still not?

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33 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

Unless you can point out the proof, no one said Trump's victory was illegitimate after he won. That was never a discussion.

 

It was discussed quite a bit in real time as it was happening in the threads related to the election

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/meet-the-press-70-years/john-lewis-trump-won-t-be-legitimate-president-n706676

 

Quote

In an exclusive interview with NBC News' "Meet the Press," Rep. John Lewis, D-Ga., said he does not believe Donald Trump is a "legitimate president," citing Russian interference in last year’s election.

...

Lewis said that he believes in forgiveness, but added, "it's going to be very difficult. I don't see this president-elect as a legitimate president."

 

I only went through the effort because I love spoiling your little worldview of nonsense whenever I get the chance. 

 

There were others. If you care to actually pay attention I’m sure you can find them yourself. 

Edited by tshile
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34 minutes ago, AsburySkinsFan said:

I was specifically pointing at North Carolina and the GOP's overt racism.

 

Has anyone said anything about the Maryland case being racially motivated?

there was nothing about the Maryland case being racially motivated.

 

The MD case was politically motivated which is also terrible.

10 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

It was discussed quite a bit in real time as it was happening in the threads related to the election

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/meet-the-press-70-years/john-lewis-trump-won-t-be-legitimate-president-n706676

 

 

I only went through the effort because I love spoiling your little worldview of nonsense whenever I get the chance. 

 

There were others. If you care to actually pay attention I’m sure you can find them yourself. 

 

First, my post referred to this forum. It is why you left out me talking about voter suppression in Ohio and North Carolina being an ignored issue in 2016. (I made a post about that before the results started to come) 

 

Second, John Lewis said that is cool but that wasn't a national conversation like the right wing have done with regards to this election and not wanting to count people votes. If anything, the criticism was that Clinton didn't campaign enough in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan and that cost her. 

 

Lastly, LOL at little worldview. You fancy yourself as the smartest person on this forum so you can have that title.

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16 minutes ago, Kilmer17 said:

Who decides what is and is not biased?  I would argue that even the "Non poilitcal committees" have some bias.  At some point, a human has to draw lines, or program the computer that draws them.  It's impossible to avoid.  It can be mitigated, but again, who decides what is good enough and what is still not?

 

In the case of Massachusetts, I'm not sure there would be way to draw that map such that you could get a Republican elected to the House.   Democratic canidates got at least 60% in almost every race.  Trying to find a breakdown by county but its hard info to come by

 

Ironically Massachusetts just re-elected a Republican Governor (Charlie Baker), who even had more votes than Elizabeth Warren.

 

In Virginia's case though, when you totalled up all the votes it was clear that Democrats should have had more seats.  On top of that, you had Democrats winning all the recent state-wide races (Governor, Senator, President) yet the House remained tilted to the Republican side.

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Well actually I don't have a problem calling Trump's presidency illegitimate when his victory occurred under a still ongoing FBI investigation into his cooperation with a foreign adversary to win that very election. Based on the evidence revealed so far, I do believe that. Perhaps it will be revealed that is not the case, at which point, I will no longer view it as illegitimate.

 

That's quite a few degrees of magnitude different from claiming mass voter fraud and illegitimacy with no evidence or even suggestion of impropriety, simply because all votes are still being counted, many from Democrat leaning areas. 

Edited by Momma There Goes That Man
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1 hour ago, Kilmer17 said:

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/07/federal-judges-toss-maryland-congressional-map-for-partisan-gerrymandering-973245

The judges unanimously ordered Maryland to redraw two of its House districts before the 2020 election, saying Democratic leaders improperly broke up a Republican-leaning seat in Western Maryland when they crafted the map after the 2010 Census.

 

As for it being racially motivated, you should read the book "rat ****ed" it explains in great detail how the Congressional Black Caucus is complicit in the drawing of many maps, especially in the south.  So while it is racially motivated, it's not with racial animosity.  In fact, the "gerrymandering" has benefitted black candidates tremendously.

 

 

Can we agree that gerrymandering has been committed by both sides and is a bad thing whoever does it?

 

I’m not sure how you fix it - ‘independent’ committees very rarely turn out to be that and the system of political judicial appointments in this Country (which baffles me) mean courts are rarely free of political taint either (fairly or unfairly).

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47 minutes ago, tshile said:

 

 

 

 

I only went through the effort because I love spoiling your little worldview of nonsense whenever I get the chance. 

 

 

28 minutes ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

Lastly, LOL at little worldview. You fancy yourself as the smartest person on this forum so you can have that title.

 

 

i call this one "each of you" :)

 

 

each of you make some great posts and each of you are a pain in the ass often enough

each of you get a brief break and each of you should be extra good when you return 

 

 

this message needs to penetrate others' consciousness 

 

don't troll or provoke just to play games or just to be a dick

don't insult/slander/castigate unless you really know what you're doing (and you don't)

 

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6 hours ago, Cooked Crack said:

This is very naive. Still thinking like this in a world where people are shooting up pizza places and sending bombs to political enemies.

As opposed to the 60s/70s when politically motivated bombings were common place?   

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As one of the very few here who was actually alive and adult enough to be aware during the late 60's and early 70's and experienced violent protest, cops beating people up unjustly, virulent racism, riots etc., things were indeed "worse" as far as civil discord goes (minus the minor detail of regular mass shootings), overall....but white nationalism was still hiding it's head much more than it is now, and only the rarest of gop leaders were ever seen embracing it or the rhetoric, and the actual threat to the society/gov't institutions overall was much less than it is now....imo, of course

 

i have minimal use for any kind of message that "avoiding the exaggerating" of the seriousness, and even danger, of these times is a valid concern....it's not bad to remind for perspective, though....i think these times are the "worst" since then, and the country is under an even more serious threat to its core stability...but it's really immaterial...those times were bad enough, these times are bad enough

 

i hope most of you regular politicos, right, left or other, are out there working in the trenches like this old **** is and has been since don got the nomination....

 

 i'd hoped that level of activism would remain in the rearview mirror, but noooooo...thank you gop......

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1 hour ago, MartinC said:

 

Can we agree that gerrymandering has been committed by both sides and is a bad thing whoever does it?

 

I’m not sure how you fix it - ‘independent’ committees very rarely turn out to be that and the system of political judicial appointments in this Country (which baffles me) mean courts are rarely free of political taint either (fairly or unfairly).

Quadruple the size of congress

 

 

thats my first fix 

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14 minutes ago, Jumbo said:

 

 

jesus...you want to breed more of them?

 

 

Besides, do we really want to do that to all those poor lobbyists? Bribe money doesn't grow on trees, you know. 

If they had to pay out four times as much... They would never have enough money for Christmas bonuses. Worse! Would Tiny Tim's condition ever be covered as preexisting? 

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6 hours ago, tshile said:

Remember when a bunch of democrats said trump’s presidency wasn’t legitimate following election night?

 

funny how some of you didn’t have a problem with that. All the sudden election results are precious to you. 

 

(I had and have a problem with both)

 

Your comparing a small faction of sore losers to the freaking POTUS declaring election fraud with zero evidence. 

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Just now, No Excuses said:

 

Your comparing a small faction of sore losers to the freaking POTUS declaring election fraud with zero evidence. 

On the other hand, those sore losers had substantial backing from the FBI, CIA, NSA, Justice, etc. who said that Russia was heavily involved in fixing the election. More, we have all read Don Jr.'s email admitting to both conspiracy and collusion with Moscow. Further, we have not only indictments, but guilty pleas all over the place of major players in both the Trump campaign and his Cabinet.

 

There's more smoke there than any hundred California forest fires combined.

 

The only real reason Trump hasn't been impeached is because Nunes, Ryan, McConnell, and pretty much the entire GOP body of Congress has sold their soul.

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2 hours ago, BenningRoadSkin said:

 

Second, John Lewis said that is cool but that wasn't a national conversation like the right wing have done with regards to this election and not wanting to count people votes. If anything, the criticism was that Clinton didn't campaign enough in Pennsylvania, Wisconsin, and Michigan and that cost her. 

 

Isn't this a bit of moving goal posts?  He provided proof that the left was doing what he claimed.  And I don't believe Lewis was the only one.  Admit a mistake and move on.  It can actually be refreshing.

 

5 minutes ago, Burgold said:

There's more smoke there than any hundred California forest fires combined.

Might be a little soon for that comparison.

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  • Jumbo changed the title to An assault on American voters is underway

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