An assault on American voters is underway

[spjunkies]

That seems like a lawsuit just waiting to happen. How in the world can you limit how many people can be transported?

[twa]

Just now, spjunkies said:

That seems like a lawsuit just waiting to happen. How in the world can you limit how many people can be transported?

 

the blurb is likely omitting something. 

 

Oh Look ....it specifically addresses transporting them into the voting booth and being present while they fill out the ballot.

 

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/billtext/html/SB00009S.htm

 

(b)  A person, other than a watcher solely recording the
	counting of ballots, may not use any mechanical or electronic means
	of recording images or sound within 100 feet of a voting station.
	SECTION 2.11.  Section 64.009, Election Code, is amended by
	adding Subsections (e), (f), and (g) to read as follows:
	(e)  A person who assists at least three voters voting under
	this section at the same time by providing the voters with
	transportation to the polling place must complete and sign a form
	that:
	(1)  requires the person to affirm that the voters are
	physically unable to enter the polling place without personal
	assistance or likelihood of injuring their health; and
	(2)  contains the following information:
	(A)  the person's name and address; and
	(B)  whether the person is providing assistance to
	the voters solely under this section or under both this section and
	Subchapter B.
	(f)  Subsection (e) does not apply to a person if the person
	is a family member of all voters that the person provides with
	transportation to the polling place. For purposes of this
	subsection, "family member" has the meaning assigned by Section
	33.057(a).

[PeterMP]

1 hour ago, twa said:

 

the blurb is likely omitting something. 

 

Oh Look ....it specifically addresses transporting them into the voting booth and being present while they fill out the ballot.

 

https://capitol.texas.gov/tlodocs/86R/billtext/html/SB00009S.htm

 

(b)  A person, other than a watcher solely recording the
	counting of ballots, may not use any mechanical or electronic means
	of recording images or sound within 100 feet of a voting station.
	SECTION 2.11.  Section 64.009, Election Code, is amended by
	adding Subsections (e), (f), and (g) to read as follows:
	(e)  A person who assists at least three voters voting under
	this section at the same time by providing the voters with
	transportation to the polling place must complete and sign a form
	that:
	(1)  requires the person to affirm that the voters are
	physically unable to enter the polling place without personal
	assistance or likelihood of injuring their health; and
	(2)  contains the following information:
	(A)  the person's name and address; and
	(B)  whether the person is providing assistance to
	the voters solely under this section or under both this section and
	Subchapter B.
	(f)  Subsection (e) does not apply to a person if the person
	is a family member of all voters that the person provides with
	transportation to the polling place. For purposes of this
	subsection, "family member" has the meaning assigned by Section
	33.057(a).

 

Uh, I don't see it.  I don't see where it mentions the voting booth or being present when they vote.

 

I do see where it says:

 

"A person who assists at least three voters voting under
	this section at the same time by providing the voters with
	transportation to the polling place"   I'm not a lawyer, but just basic reading, I'd absolutely read that if I drove 3 of my friends to vote, I'd have to fill out a form.  Generally, I don't think the polling place is the booth.  When you put "polling place" into google, they are talking about where the location the voting happens.  Not the actual voting booth/machine.

Edited May 7, 2019 by PeterMP

[twa]

44 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

 

I'm not a lawyer, but just basic reading, I'd absolutely read that if I drove 3 of my friends to vote, I'd have to fill out a form.

 

You must read it in context and know which subsection of law it is addressing and referencing, which can be challenging for a non lawyer.

 

however those reporting on it should be capable or have access to those that can.

 

Rather sloppy accusation that is easily exposed in a few minutes of research

 

added

It is basically the same requirement that exists for those that assist people in filling out absentee ballots.....and is specific to a person there present when ballots are filled out.

 

Not in the parking lot or whatever

 

Edited May 7, 2019 by twa

[Popeman38]

39 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Uh, I don't see it.  I don't see where it mentions the voting booth or being present when they vote.

 

I do see where it says:

 

"A person who assists at least three voters voting under
	this section at the same time by providing the voters with
	transportation to the polling place"   I'm not a lawyer, but just basic reading, I'd absolutely read that if I drove 3 of my friends to vote, I'd have to fill out a form.

You have to read the original statute, and add the amended language:

 

Quote

Sec. 64.009 
Voter Unable to Enter Polling Place

(a)

If a voter is physically unable to enter the polling place without personal assistance or likelihood of injuring the voters health, on the voters request, an election officer shall deliver a ballot to the voter at the polling place entrance or curb.

(b)

The regular voting procedures may be modified by the election officer to the extent necessary to conduct voting under this section.

(c)

After the voter is accepted for voting, the voter shall mark the ballot and give it to the election officer who shall deposit it in the ballot box.

(d)

On the voters request, a person accompanying the voter shall be permitted to select the voters ballot and deposit the ballot in the ballot box.

(e)

A person who assists at least three voters voting under this section at the same time by providing the voters with transportation to the polling place must complete and sign a form that:

  (1)  requires the person to affirm that the voters are physically unable to enter the polling place without personal assistance or likelihood of injuring their health; and

  (2)  contains the following information:

     (A)  the person's name and address; and

     (B)  whether the person is providing assistance to the voters solely under this section or under both this section and Subchapter B.

(f)

Subsection (e) does not apply to a person if the person is a family member of all voters that the person provides with transportation to the polling place. For purposes of this subsection, "family member" has the meaning assigned by Section 33.057(a).

(g)

The secretary of state shall prescribe the form described by Subsection (e).

 

[PeterMP]

44 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

You have to read the original statute, and add the amended language:

 

 

 

uh okay, but in terms of twa's point and my point, they still aren't talking about being in the voting booth or necessarily even present when they are voting. 

 

twa's point still seems wrong.

 

If I drive 3 people to a polling place, who then claim they can't enter the polling place and the election official decides to change the rules for voting, why do they need my name and stuff?

 

It is the people that I have driven that say they can't enter the voting place and it is the election official that is making the decision to change the rules for voting.

 

It isn't even like section e is dependent on d being true.  Just the transportation component triggers section e, right?

58 minutes ago, twa said:

 

You must read it in context and know which subsection of law it is addressing and referencing, which can be challenging for a non lawyer.

however those reporting on it should be capable or have access to those that can.

 

Rather sloppy accusation that is easily exposed in a few minutes of research

 

added

It is basically the same requirement that exists for those that assist people in filling out absentee ballots.....and is specific to a person there present when ballots are filled out.

 

Not in the parking lot or whatever

 

 

What you posted disagrees with what @Popeman38 posted.  What he's posted specifically talks about voting that is not occurring in the voting booth, and it certainly does not state the transporter has to be present for the voting (as near as I can tell).

[twa]

24 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

 

 

What you posted disagrees with what @Popeman38 posted.  What he's posted specifically talks about voting that is not occurring in the voting booth, and it certainly does not state the transporter has to be present for the voting (as near as I can tell).

 

No it does not, 

It is specific to where the ballot is cast and who can be present at that location at that time.

 

If you drop them off or are not with them WHILE the ballot is being filled out you can ferry as many as you want to the polling place.

 

the option for poll workers to bring ballots out to the person does not change that.

If the driver simply exits the vehicle and does not assist in the actual voting there would be no requirement to sign anything.

 

 

[Larry]

5 hours ago, twa said:

Oh Look ....it specifically addresses transporting them into the voting booth and being present while they fill out the ballot.

 

Oh Look. It says exactly what the article says it says. 

[twa]

14 minutes ago, Larry said:

 

Oh Look. It says exactly what the article says it says. 

 

what article?

[PeterMP]

2 hours ago, twa said:

 

No it does not, 

It is specific to where the ballot is cast and who can be present at that location at that time.

 

If you drop them off or are not with them WHILE the ballot is being filled out you can ferry as many as you want to the polling place.

 

the option for poll workers to bring ballots out to the person does not change that.

If the driver simply exits the vehicle and does not assist in the actual voting there would be no requirement to sign anything.

 

Clearly, your original post where you talked about the being in the voting booth was wrong.

 

From there, I'm not a lawyer so I'm going to let it go, but that's not the way i read that at all.  Section e, does not seem to require you to be present when the ballot is filled out.  Section c seems to stipulate a process where the person doing the transporting is not involved at all in the voting process.

 

Section e seems to be invoked independent of whether section c or d happens.

 

I could be wrong, but that's how I would read that.

Edited May 7, 2019 by PeterMP

[twa]

12 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Clearly, your original post where you talked about the being in the voting booth was wrong.

 

 

 

No, it was incomplete and lacking addressing a rarely used option that still hinges on presence (not simply in vicinity) where the ballot is actually being filled out.

 

if they bring the booth or ballot to you that is the voting booth location( of course we don't have actual booths here, but rather voting machines)

[bearrock]

Just add subsection d as follows

 

"A person who assists at least three voters voting under subsection d...."

 

Right now, you could have a driver who does nothing more than drive 3 people to the polling place who are then provided assistance by the election officer under subsections a through c be subject to the registration requirement.  That seems unnecessary. Registration for aid under subsection d seems reasonable to regulate.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

5 hours ago, twa said:

You must read it in context and know which subsection of law it is addressing and referencing, which can be challenging for a non lawyer.

Yeah, you have to have the secret GOP context decoder ring that lets you see invisible laws like the ones that are keeping Barr from providing the unredacted report to Congress or Mnuchin from providing Trump’s tax returns.

Edited May 7, 2019 by Sacks 'n' Stuff

[PeterMP]

@twa  there's no indication that I need to be present though, right?  That was in your original post too.

 

Let's try this (an extreme and unlikely case for sure):

 

A friend calls me up and says, 'Hey, I've got 2 other guys and we need to go vote.  Can you drive us?'

 

I vote in the same place and have not voted yet so I say yes.

 

I pick them up, we pull into the lot, and then one of the guys says because of our disabilities we can't go in and vote.  Here's a handicap tag.  Just park in the handicap space right outside of the building and send one of the election workers out to us.

 

I go in, find an election worker, and point them to my car with the 3 guys in it and say, they say they need help voting.  He says, I'll take care of it.

 

I go get in line and vote.  I come out.  They've all say they've voted.  There's no ballots or voting paraphernalia around, and I presume the election official took care of it (per section of b and c of the posted law).

 

Based on what is posted, why wouldn't the election official need to collect my name and other information?

Edited May 7, 2019 by PeterMP

[twa]

3 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

@twa  there's no indication that I need to be present though, right?  That was in your original post too.

 

 

 

Based on what is posted, why wouldn't the election official need to collect my name and other information?

 

You need to be present to be required to sign a form, be it inside at the booth or in the vehicle they bring the ballot to.

 

The section of law I have quoted deals with the restrictions on people at the place the ballots are filled out.

 

The law does not cover simply bringing people to the polling place .

You could even wheel a few dozen to the check in, as long as you accompany them no further till after they vote.

[PeterMP]

11 minutes ago, twa said:

 

You need to be present to be required to sign a form, be it inside at the booth or in the vehicle they bring the ballot to.

 

The section of law I have quoted deals with the restrictions on people at the place the ballots are filled out.

 

The law does not cover simply bringing people to the polling place .

You could even wheel a few dozen to the check in, as long as you accompany them no further till after they vote.

 

Okay, I'm broadly present in that I'm there to vote.  I'm not present while they are voting.  While I'm there to vote (as I'm walking back to the car), the voting official can say, 'Hey I need some information on you, and you need to sign this form.'

 

I agree.  It doesn't broadly cover JUST bringing people the polling place. 

 

It does seem to broadly covers bringing people into the polling place that can't then enter the polling place and vote on their own.  This includes people that don't enter and vote on their own, but vote ONLY with the assistance of an election official, and no assistance with the person that proved the transportation, other than they provided the transportation.

 

I'll ask bluntly, can you quote anything from the law or from something else that says I must actually be present while the actual act of voting occurs (i.e. that I must know how the person voted)?

[twa]

55 minutes ago, PeterMP said:

 

Okay, I'm broadly present in that I'm there to vote.  I'm not present while they are voting.  While I'm there to vote (as I'm walking back to the car), the voting official can say, 'Hey I need some information on you, and you need to sign this form.'

 

I agree.  It doesn't broadly cover JUST bringing people the polling place. 

 

It does seem to broadly covers bringing people into the polling place that can't then enter the polling place and vote on their own.  This includes people that don't enter and vote on their own, but vote ONLY with the assistance of an election official, and no assistance with the person that proved the transportation, other than they provided the transportation.

 

I'll ask bluntly, can you quote anything from the law or from something else that says I must actually be present while the actual act of voting occurs (i.e. that I must know how the person voted)?

 

The context I mentioned is THIS chapter of law being amended by SB 9

 

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/EL/htm/EL.64.htm

 

specifically SECTION 2.11.  Section 64.009, Election Code which deals with actions and those present while the ballot is filled out.

 

if your only assistance is not during that period that the ballot is filled out or submitted you are not covered by it, nor would you be required to sign anything or affirm a oath.

 

I can't provide evidence of actions NOT covered by the law since it does not exist

 

 

 

 

[bearrock]

20 hours ago, twa said:

 

The context I mentioned is THIS chapter of law being amended by SB 9

 

https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/EL/htm/EL.64.htm

 

specifically SECTION 2.11.  Section 64.009, Election Code which deals with actions and those present while the ballot is filled out.

 

if your only assistance is not during that period that the ballot is filled out or submitted you are not covered by it, nor would you be required to sign anything or affirm a oath.

 

I can't provide evidence of actions NOT covered by the law since it does not exist

 

 

 

 

I don't think you're reading the amendment correctly.  The amendment specifically says any person providing assistance to voters voting under this section by providing transportation is covered by subsection e.  Note that the amendment doesn't say any person providing assistance during the time the ballot is filled out (subsection d), it says assistance by providing transportation to the polling place.

 

The section, which is the entirety of 64.009, provides four subsections dealing with assisted voting, only one of which involves assistance by a private individual and not an election officer.  An individual that votes utilizing assistance under subsections a through c are still voters voting under this section. 

 

Thus, even if such a voter does not receive help from a private individual during the actual voting, if a single driver drives three or more individuals utilizing subsections a through c (who are still voting under this section), then the driver is subject to subsection e even if they had no involvement during the actual voting.  That's the plain language of the amendment.  If that's not the intent, TX legislature can easily fix it by saying registration applies if a person provides assistance to three or more person under subsection d.  Currently, the application is not limited to subsection d, rather the whole section.

Edited May 8, 2019 by bearrock

[twa]

I'll agree the language could be clearer

Besides which leaving a busload of people alone that are incapable making it into the polling area seems a bad idea. 😉

[Cooked Crack]

 

 

 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

5 hours ago, twa said:

I'll agree the language could be clearer

Whoa! Little bit of contrition from twa this morning. Baby steps...

 

 

Now say Hillary was the best.

[twa]

8 hours ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Whoa! Little bit of contrition from twa this morning. Baby steps...

 

 

Now say Hillary was the best.

 

Hillary was the Best......at blowing a Billion + $$$$$ 

 

[Larry]

50 minutes ago, twa said:

 

Hillary was the Best......at blowing a Billion + $$$$$ 

 

 

Yeah, if Hillary had won, we definitely would have tripled the deficit, despite record low unemployment. 

 

Just because. 

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

1 hour ago, twa said:

Hillary was the Best......at blowing a Billion + $$$$$ 

Trump could also be in that conversation it turns out.

[twa]

21 minutes ago, Sacks 'n' Stuff said:

Trump could also be in that conversation it turns out.

 

But she didn't take near as long, which is why she is the Best.