Pathetic crowds at home opener

[thebluefood]

40 minutes ago, kleese said:

 

That is odd. Not judging you at all, but it is odd to me. If you don't watch the games, period... then obviously you don't care anymore and aren't really a fan of the team. And that is fine-- totally your prerogative I wouldn't watch either if I didn't feel it was worth my time, money, or energy. But it is odd to me that you would skip watching the games and then still take the time to follow along on a message board. I promise I'm not trying to call you out or insinuate that you shouldn't be posting. Not the case at all. Just curious as to why you have lost interest to the point of not watching the games while still having interest to follow/post on the boards. 

 

2 hours ago, GOSKINS_08 said:

I can understand you not wanting to go to the game and spending a couple hundred dollars, but you didn’t even bother to watch on tv which is free? Sounds like you’re not even a fan anymore. 🤷‍♂️

Honestly? No - no, I'm not really a fan anymore. Hell, I don't even watch a lot of football anymore. Mind you, there's a part of me that wants desperately to cheer for a D.C. based NFL team team again but I just can't for a number of reasons. As I've said before, it's like being estranged from a once beloved relative - you may not come around and visit them anymore but you still keep tabs on them to see if they're making any positive, long term changes but every time you do, you feel that mental and emotional exhaustion bubble up again and you're reminded why you just can't deal anymore. 

 

And I know that sounds awfully dramatic - this is a multi-billion dollar sports franchise not a hard-luck uncle and all this haranguing means nothing to them - but as many of us know, this team runs deep in the culture and identity of the D.C. Area. I empathize with Josh Norman's frustration. You don't work as hard as he has and risk your safety to perform in front of a listless or outright hostile crowd. He has no way of knowing or understanding how frustrating the last 25 years have been for 'Skins fans - how there's basically a lost generation at this point. I used to get heckled at school for wearing my 'Skins gear - and this was when I still lived in Northern Virginia.

 

But this sentiment still hits a raw nerve. To have a finger wagged at me for being a "bad fan" for not shelling out the limited resources I (and I'm sure lots of other folks) have when the litany of misgivings by this franchise (and the NFL at large) is as clear as crystal, especially with the specter of a new stadium is looming and the sweetheart deals (off the backs of taxpayers) that will surely be offered to Dan Snyder in light of it (despite what civic and state officials from the DMV have said). I can't deal with that. 

 

The only reason I stick around is because this message board was a big part of my teenage years and kept me connected with the D.C. Area after I moved to North Carolina. Honestly, this place was a lifesaver and I can't begin to tell you all how grateful I am to it. I may not like this team (in its current state) much but I've still found a home on this message board. 

[kleese]

2 minutes ago, thebluefood said:

The only reason I stick around is because this message board was a big part of my teenage years and kept me connected with the D.C. Area after I moved to North Carolina. Honestly, this place was a lifesaver and I can't begin to tell you all how grateful I am to it. I may not like this team (in its current state) much but I've still found a home on this message board. 

 

Fair enough. It differs from my feelings/experience, but is certainly no less valid. I'm 41 and old enough to vividly remember the 80's and Gibbs I era. And I can say that my passion for the team is no less than it was back then. I care equally. Nothing has changed. I'm glad for that. 

[BeachBlitz757]

1 hour ago, thebluefood said:

 

Honestly? No - no, I'm not really a fan anymore. Hell, I don't even watch a lot of football anymore. Mind you, there's a part of me that wants desperately to cheer for a D.C. based NFL team team again but I just can't for a number of reasons. As I've said before, it's like being estranged from a once beloved relative - you may not come around and visit them anymore but you still keep tabs on them to see if they're making any positive, long term changes but every time you do, you feel that mental and emotional exhaustion bubble up again and you're reminded why you just can't deal anymore. 

 

And I know that sounds awfully dramatic - this is a multi-billion dollar sports franchise not a hard-luck uncle and all this haranguing means nothing to them - but as many of us know, this team runs deep in the culture and identity of the D.C. Area. I empathize with Josh Norman's frustration. You don't work as hard as he has and risk your safety to perform in front of a listless or outright hostile crowd. He has no way of knowing or understanding how frustrating the last 25 years have been for 'Skins fans - how there's basically a lost generation at this point. I used to get heckled at school for wearing my 'Skins gear - and this was when I still lived in Northern Virginia.

 

But this sentiment still hits a raw nerve. To have a finger wagged at me for being a "bad fan" for not shelling out the limited resources I (and I'm sure lots of other folks) have when the litany of misgivings by this franchise (and the NFL at large) is as clear as crystal, especially with the specter of a new stadium is looming and the sweetheart deals (off the backs of taxpayers) that will surely be offered to Dan Snyder in light of it (despite what civic and state officials from the DMV have said). I can't deal with that. 

 

The only reason I stick around is because this message board was a big part of my teenage years and kept me connected with the D.C. Area after I moved to North Carolina. Honestly, this place was a lifesaver and I can't begin to tell you all how grateful I am to it. I may not like this team (in its current state) much but I've still found a home on this message board. 

I can relate to this 100%, after decades of expending energy, money and time to this team I realized I wasn’t getting much of anything in return. Over time what happened to the team had less and less impact on me and I didn’t stress out over it anymore. I would still love to see this team turn it around but I’m not waiting for it to happen anymore and I feel bad that my son who is 19 only knows this team to more or less suck smh. What part of NC are you in, I relocated from VA to Raleigh, definitely a change of pace for sure. 

[ixcuincle]

It's getting better. Haven't seen the attendance numbers yet but it was pretty packed until like 2 minutes to go. You could see fans start trickling out to beat traffic. Then the guy misses the FG and everyone runs back to they seats 

 

that being said in 131 I had like 4 or 5 seats next to me with nobody in them. You can see huge swaths of empty seats in the end zone sections in the 400's. But lower bowl is pretty packed. 

1 hour ago, thebluefood said:

 

Honestly? No - no, I'm not really a fan anymore. Hell, I don't even watch a lot of football anymore. Mind you, there's a part of me that wants desperately to cheer for a D.C. based NFL team team again but I just can't for a number of reasons. As I've said before, it's like being estranged from a once beloved relative - you may not come around and visit them anymore but you still keep tabs on them to see if they're making any positive, long term changes but every time you do, you feel that mental and emotional exhaustion bubble up again and you're reminded why you just can't deal anymore. 

 

And I know that sounds awfully dramatic - this is a multi-billion dollar sports franchise not a hard-luck uncle and all this haranguing means nothing to them - but as many of us know, this team runs deep in the culture and identity of the D.C. Area. I empathize with Josh Norman's frustration. You don't work as hard as he has and risk your safety to perform in front of a listless or outright hostile crowd. He has no way of knowing or understanding how frustrating the last 25 years have been for 'Skins fans - how there's basically a lost generation at this point. I used to get heckled at school for wearing my 'Skins gear - and this was when I still lived in Northern Virginia.

 

But this sentiment still hits a raw nerve. To have a finger wagged at me for being a "bad fan" for not shelling out the limited resources I (and I'm sure lots of other folks) have when the litany of misgivings by this franchise (and the NFL at large) is as clear as crystal, especially with the specter of a new stadium is looming and the sweetheart deals (off the backs of taxpayers) that will surely be offered to Dan Snyder in light of it (despite what civic and state officials from the DMV have said). I can't deal with that. 

 

The only reason I stick around is because this message board was a big part of my teenage years and kept me connected with the D.C. Area after I moved to North Carolina. Honestly, this place was a lifesaver and I can't begin to tell you all how grateful I am to it. I may not like this team (in its current state) much but I've still found a home on this message board. 

it's sad you feel this way because i've never had an ounce of my redskins fandom leave my body and the entire time i've followed this team has been under the Snyder ownership. It's because this team still calls to me and I live locally and can attend their games for discount prices. Even if I couldn't go I'd still watch on TV. They are a tradition every Sunday in the fall and it'll only get better with time. 

[hail2skins]

9 minutes ago, ixcuincle said:

It's getting better. Haven't seen the attendance numbers yet but it was pretty packed until like 2 minutes to go. You could see fans start trickling out to beat traffic. Then the guy misses the FG and everyone runs back to they seats 

 

that being said in 131 I had like 4 or 5 seats next to me with nobody in them. You can see huge swaths of empty seats in the end zone sections in the 400's. But lower bowl is pretty packed.

Maybe pretty packed in the lower bowl. But its been that way all season long. Only way yesterday was different was way less Houston fans (unsurprising) and the crowd was more into it because it was a more competitive game throughout. Announced paid attendance was 61500, which is between the Carolina and Atlanta games.

 

The amount of folks in the upper level and particularly the club level remains a dumpster fire.

[ThomasTomasz]

Also, the amount of people in the end zone that does not have the locker room tunnels is pretty bad.  From where I sit by the visitor tunnel, I can see whole groups of seats missing in that end zone, plus the abysmal club and upper deck showings.  They might as well close the entire upper deck and move everyone down.  

 

Since I have had season tickets the past three years, I've parked in Orange D or Purple D lot.  It is a quick in and out for my seats, and the easiest way for me to get into the stadium too.  The past two seasons, you had to be there 3.5 hours before game time to get one of the "wanted" parking spots where the walkways are blocked off and you can super spread out.  Now, I am showing up less than three hours before kick off, and in Purple D, all of those spots that are adjacent to Orange D are open, and only one other filled up for tailgating before the last hour.  

 

Consistently, the same group of fans were in that section the past two years, and now none of them are back except me, and no one has replaced them knowing those are the best spots.  Clearly, those are long-time ticket holders who gave up their tickets, and that is the biggest problem facing the team.  Ultimately, the only way they come back is if the Redskins establish a consistent, winning culture that puts to rest the previous Snyder years, but it will take time and is something that fans have to see for themselves.  

[turtle2328]

14 hours ago, ThomasTomasz said:

Also, the amount of people in the end zone that does not have the locker room tunnels is pretty bad.  From where I sit by the visitor tunnel, I can see whole groups of seats missing in that end zone, plus the abysmal club and upper deck showings.  They might as well close the entire upper deck and move everyone down.  

 

Since I have had season tickets the past three years, I've parked in Orange D or Purple D lot.  It is a quick in and out for my seats, and the easiest way for me to get into the stadium too.  The past two seasons, you had to be there 3.5 hours before game time to get one of the "wanted" parking spots where the walkways are blocked off and you can super spread out.  Now, I am showing up less than three hours before kick off, and in Purple D, all of those spots that are adjacent to Orange D are open, and only one other filled up for tailgating before the last hour.  

 

Consistently, the same group of fans were in that section the past two years, and now none of them are back except me, and no one has replaced them knowing those are the best spots.  Clearly, those are long-time ticket holders who gave up their tickets, and that is the biggest problem facing the team.  Ultimately, the only way they come back is if the Redskins establish a consistent, winning culture that puts to rest the previous Snyder years, but it will take time and is something that fans have to see for themselves.  

They need to focus on the next generation. This is going to take a long time to fix.

 

[thebluefood]

21 hours ago, BeachBlitz757 said:

I can relate to this 100%, after decades of expending energy, money and time to this team I realized I wasn’t getting much of anything in return. Over time what happened to the team had less and less impact on me and I didn’t stress out over it anymore. I would still love to see this team turn it around but I’m not waiting for it to happen anymore and I feel bad that my son who is 19 only knows this team to more or less suck smh. What part of NC are you in, I relocated from VA to Raleigh, definitely a change of pace for sure. 

When I was a kid, my mom, stepdad and I moved to Jacksonville from Alexandria so you can imagine how much of a culture shock that was. I went to ECU and then after a couple years, I moved back to Greenville for a bit for a change of scenery and a new gig. I'm living in the Harrisburg, PA area these days. 

 

As I said earlier, I want to pull for a local D.C. area team. I was a diehard fan my whole life but over the past couple years, I gradually realized I can't actually rationalize giving this team my financial or even emotional support. As I said earlier, it's like being estranged from a member of the family. You want so badly to go back to the way things were but you know you can't and it's not going to be good for anyone if you try.  

[justice98]

Why do you think teams like Cleveland, Detroit, Oakland, or Buffalo dont suffer from this problem as bad as the Redskins do?  Their fans still seem fully invested and rabid, they dont seem have stadium takeovers every single week.

 

I keep hearing being bad/dysfunctional for a long time as an excuse and it doesnt really hold up and explain what's going on here.  

[kleese]

54 minutes ago, justice98 said:

Why do you think teams like Cleveland, Detroit, Oakland, or Buffalo dont suffer from this problem as bad as the Redskins do?  Their fans still seem fully invested and rabid, they dont seem have stadium takeovers every single week.

 

I keep hearing being bad/dysfunctional for a long time as an excuse and it doesnt really hold up and explain what's going on here.  

 

First thing is that people don’t have a strong desire to travel/vacation in Cleveland, Detroit, Buffalo, or Oakland. Look at the places that get taken over a lot... Arizona, Los Angeles, Miami, Tampa, DC, Dallas. Tourist destinations and/or places where there are lots of other things to do where you can fit a game in as well. Our physical location on the map also makes it easier— simple place to get to. It’s an easy and relatively inexpensive area to reach for pretty much anyone in the Eastern or Central time zone. I live in OKC and it’s cheaper for me to travel to DC/BWI than it would be Cleveland or Oakland for sure. 

 

2. My Mom’s family is from Buffalo. Cleveland is similar. As is Detroit. If you are from one of those places, being from THAT place is very important and very personal. To an extent all of those cities have been punchlines for various reasons. There is a lot of civic pride that comes with those who are born there and especially those that choose to stay. It’s a big deal. I’m not from DMV but I certainly don’t get that impression when I’m there at all. Heck, I literally don’t know where I am half the time we are making our way around. Am I in VA right now or MD or DC? I honestly don’t know half the time. It all runs together and I’m not sure I’ve ever met anyone that told me they were actually from DC. The Redskins represent an area and it’s very easy to just pick another team when you are making that choice as they aren’t really connected to anything specific goegraphically or culturally. 

 

In other words of all the big city teams in the NFL I think the Redskins are the easiest for locals to punt or ignore. As an outsider I know all about the pride and arrogance of people from NYC... the angst or even anger of Philly fans or the pure love of all things Chicago for Chicagoans. But DC? Is that even a thing? 

[BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93]

1 hour ago, justice98 said:

Why do you think teams like Cleveland, Detroit, Oakland, or Buffalo dont suffer from this problem as bad as the Redskins do?  Their fans still seem fully invested and rabid, they dont seem have stadium takeovers every single week.

 

I keep hearing being bad/dysfunctional for a long time as an excuse and it doesnt really hold up and explain what's going on here.  

I think people underestimate how terrible and embarrassing we are off the field. That has more to do with it than you think. Those franchises keep the suck at least on the field 

 

for example, there are lots of black Dallas fans in PG County. While they are all football illiterate (why else would you root for that team?) most of the time, I’ve heard from quite a few that their family roots for Dallas because the Skins were last to intergrate. 

 

My point is simply that this is deeper than losing games for the Skins. There are decades of embarrassment on and off the field of various different flavors that I’m not sure any other team can compete with it 

[justice98]

1 hour ago, BRAVEONTHEWARPATH93 said:

I think people underestimate how terrible and embarrassing we are off the field. That has more to do with it than you think. Those franchises keep the suck at least on the field 

 

for example, there are lots of black Dallas fans in PG County. While they are all football illiterate (why else would you root for that team?) most of the time, I’ve heard from quite a few that their family roots for Dallas because the Skins were last to intergrate. 

 

My point is simply that this is deeper than losing games for the Skins. There are decades of embarrassment on and off the field of various different flavors that I’m not sure any other team can compete with it 

 

I feel you, but I think the dysfunction off the field in those other places is being underestimated. 

 

You cant suck on the field for the kind of sustained period we're talking about without corresponding commensurate sucking off of it.  They hire bad people, the bad people get bad players, miscellaneous dramas pop up from time to time, ownership is clueless, it's all the same formula.  We just dont follow the nitty gritty, day in, day out dramatics like we do the Skins.

[hail2skins]

Tangentially related to the topic.....saw the A's just released renderings of the new ballpark they wish to build and open in several years. The park is designed by BIG, the same group that was associated with the Skins stadium renderings that came out a couple years ago.  Wonder if the Skins are still on track to announce a new stadium location by year's end:

 

https://www.mlb.com/athletics/oakland-ballpark/howard-terminal

[hail2skins]

Saw a story where the Bucs had a paid attendance of 50K, but a gate attendance of 40K, for last Sunday's game against the Niners. Guess they are allowing STH to bring two guests for free to this Sunday's game against Carolina.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/buccaneers-resort-giving-tickets-away-free-8-year-low-attendance-040314454.html

[MarkB452]

..just saw that too...interesting...btw, here is a link to attendance across the league:

 

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2018/attendance.htm

 

 

[hail2skins]

ESPN has the attendance for our six home games as 367,602, vice the 389,775 that PFR cites. PFR lists the Green Bay game as 82,000, when in fact attendance was just shy of 60K that day. 

 

I also don't believe at all that FedEx's capacity is 82K anymore. I'd say 75K maximum. 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance

[turtle2328]

18 hours ago, hail2skins said:

ESPN has the attendance for our six home games as 367,602, vice the 389,775 that PFR cites. PFR lists the Green Bay game as 82,000, when in fact attendance was just shy of 60K that day. 

 

I also don't believe at all that FedEx's capacity is 82K anymore. I'd say 75K maximum. 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/attendance

That's an interesting link. The aggregate data may tell us something...

Like we're 75% full at home but 91% full on the road. And... we're the 5th best attended team on the road. Interesting, all 4 NFC East teams are in the top 11. We're a big draw on the road.

[RandyHolt]

We are always a big road draw being largely a transient town. That, coupled with our bowls....

[hail2skins]

3 hours ago, turtle2328 said:

That's an interesting link. The aggregate data may tell us something...

Like we're 75% full at home but 91% full on the road. And... we're the 5th best attended team on the road. Interesting, all 4 NFC East teams are in the top 11. We're a big draw on the road.

Don't know how much it really means. Look at the home percentages over the entire season for the teams we have played on the road so far: 

 

AZ: 95.5

NO:100.1

NY: 93.8

TB: 84.1

DAL: 91.2

 

The last road game I went to was at MetLife in the early part of the 2016 season. The place was packed, but there were not a lot of Skins fans there. 

[justice98]

I guess we aren't the only ones.

 

 

[hail2skins]

Pseudo-column in the WaPo today focused on an old problem, people who can't use a proper vocabulary in public:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/12/07/fedex-field-foul-mouths-even-worse-than-foul-play/?utm_term=.cc509bf460d3

[Skinsfan1311]

1 hour ago, hail2skins said:

Pseudo-column in the WaPo today focused on an old problem, people who can't use a proper vocabulary in public:

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2018/12/07/fedex-field-foul-mouths-even-worse-than-foul-play/?utm_term=.cc509bf460d3

Oh for ****s sake!

Who the **** is ****ing saying that we're foul-mouthed?

**** them and the ****ing horse that ****-brain reporter rode on.

 

[BurgundyBooger]

[Skinsfan1311]

We'll be there.

We always win the tailgate!

[Voice_of_Reason]

1 hour ago, Skinsfan1311 said:

Oh for ****s sake!

Who the **** is ****ing saying that we're foul-mouthed?

**** them and the ****ing horse that ****-brain reporter rode on.

 

I love the irony in this post, assuming it was intentional