Next Day Thoughts: Redskins vs. Cardinals

[JoeJacobyHOForRIOT]

8 minutes ago, PortisBetts said:

Thats a good observation , I notice during that game our defense seemed very "into it". I feel like i was seeing more enthusiasm and pride than years past.  

[gbear]

On Doctson, wasn't it him coming back to the ball that prevented the safety?  It's not all about catches and yards.  I don't know how well he did the other things, but I thought that play was important.

[Sandy Monk]

5 minutes ago, gbear said:

On Doctson, wasn't it him coming back to the ball that prevented the safety?  It's not all about catches and yards.  I don't know how well he did the other things, but I thought that play was important.

 

9 minutes ago, COWBOY-KILLA- said:

A couple points:

 

Doctson was shadowed by Patrick Peterson for most of the game. So no shame in his disappearance, Peterson is a stud. 

Saw Jordan Reed with my own eyes block Chandler Jones very well on a successful run play. Good to see.

Belief is a powerful thing. This has been brewing over the last few years. Gruden has something cooking. I like our chances this year.

 

 

Still needs how to show some real urgency in his run blocks, as well as finding spots for his QB on improvised plays. 

 

2 hours ago, Sandy Monk said:

 

 

Getting away from that, ? 

 

That play was one of two that I was pleased with Doctson on. Scrambling quickly to the ball spot also helped to sell the throw intent as legit. 

 

[justice98]

Peterson shadowing Doctson seems like a poor allocation of resources.  Not seen a whole lot that suggests he's a guy you need to be worried about.  Taylor coulda done as good a job.  It's not Antonio Brown we're talking about.

[CTskin]

We did what good teams should do... we beat an inferior opponent handily. Week 1, their house, dominated. @justice98 You say you've seen this movie before? Under Gruden, I haven't. I don't know why you try to make a point by bringing up the Raiders game, we lost damn near our whole D over the following weeks, you know this. 

 

Expectations aren't Super Bowl-or-Bust because of this game, but it was a huge breath of fresh air to have most of our off season optimism confirmed... usually we have to wait at least one week for the rust to get knocked off.

 

-I said it all off-season, I prefer Alex to Kirk. His pocket awareness, ability to extend plays, and decision making is on a different level than Kirk. I'm not saying that I think he's better, but this is the skillset that I thought we were getting when we drafted RG, this is what I want in a QB. Sidenote- did anyone see Kirk's presser? In classic Kirk way, he threw some big jabs at this franchise.

-Ryan Anderson showed very well. I was down on him this off-season big time, but he shut me right up. 

-Secondary was studly led by Dunbar. He's always had the physical tools, great to see him getting the mental part down also. Bashaud who? Sure, this wasn't Aaron Rodgers, but Bradford when healthy is a good QB.

-I was happy to land AP, but had no idea that he'd do what he did. Watching him run, his patience and vision, is night and day compared to any RBs we've had for as long as I can remember.

-I would knock the WRs, but we just didn't need to go to them this game. If we were down by a few scores and needed big plays and kept missing then it'd be a different story. In this one, the run game was in beast mode, Reed was being healthy Reed, and CT was consistently picking up chunk plays. Don't fix what ain't broke.

-There were no second half woes as far as I'm concerned. Our D continued to shut it down through the majority of the 4th Q, all we had to do was run clock. Related, effing WaPo had the balls to write a column about how our "ridiculous" shut out-less streak continues.

-Just stay healthy for the love of god. This is a good team. After back-to-back seasons as the most injured team, we have to have some positive karma coming our way...

 

 

[MisterPinstripe]

52 minutes ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Couple of debbie downer thoughts:

 

- Vigil replaced Foster towards the end. Foster seemed in place at times just late, trailing. On a run play early on he did over pursue, went past the hole and allowed the RB to cut it back through the hole and take it up field.

 

- Outside WRs probably wont see as much action as they did w Cousins. Only 1 game and silly to use that to predict a season long trend but I just think the outside WRs are secondary to this offense. Richardson and Doctson were targeted 9 times total. Crowder was 3 for 4. We didnt have to adjust or come off what was working - running and drop offs in open space - but I am curious to see if we can actually have an outside and down field passing game. 

 

- Offense does seem different under Smith. Seems play is almost exclusively within 10 yards of the LOS. More conservative but with big play potential if a player gets the ball in open space. Its effective but I do want to see what we do when a defensive takes away the run game and doesnt allow the underneath pass.

 

- Doctson ... guy just plays invisible. He was out there for 70 of 79 offensive snaps? That cant be right. This game would be unfair to judge him or Richardson since we didnt have to take chances and could play conservative but this has been going on for a while now. He must not get separation.

If the defense, as they did yesterday, is just playing back and covering deep it would be silly to attack them deep. Just keep taking the underneath stuff that we did and run the ball, gameplan is going to be different every week. Plus the Cardinals have some good players in that secondary which is another reason to not focus on attacking it.

 

I wouldnt make a leap like that on the WRs based on one game against a team that was playing like that.

11 minutes ago, justice98 said:

Peterson shadowing Doctson seems like a poor allocation of resources.  Not seen a whole lot that suggests he's a guy you need to be worried about.  Taylor coulda done as good a job.  It's not Antonio Brown we're talking about.

Why not shadow Doctson? He has the most potential out of all of our WRs and based on their coverage its not like we were throwing to other WRs. Who else is he going to shadow? Its not like he can cover Chris Thompson or Jordan Reed.

[Why am I Mr. Pink?]

16 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

If the defense, as they did yesterday, is just playing back and covering deep it would be silly to attack them deep. Just keep taking the underneath stuff that we did and run the ball, gameplan is going to be different every week. Plus the Cardinals have some good players in that secondary which is another reason to not focus on attacking it.

 

I wouldnt make a leap like that on the WRs based on one game against a team that was playing like that.

 

I hear ya and agree 100%. But when you hear the check down Alex stuff, 2014 season when a WR didnt make a single TD catch and the fact that he has gone 5 consecutive seasons with less than 10 ints .... its something you are looking at to see if there is truth to it or not. Is he a check down QB? My first impression is he is a really really good game manager that you can absolutely win with. I think our pieces (CT, Reed) are prefect for him. 

 

Its only 1 game, but it was definitely a conservative game and was what some people said he is.

 

He was second in YPA last year but he was way down in actual air yards which means he did what we saw yesterday, a lot of YAC. I give a QB credit for YAC bc that means they are getting the ball to the right guy at the right time with good ball placement, leading etc ..  

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2017/all#average-air-yards-differential

 

Not throwing ints is great, but I think being so low means you are checking down and not taking down field. You want a balance imo.

 

-----------------------------

 

I really liked what I saw ... but I saw what people were saying about him. 

 

For one game at least.

 

edit - the yards through air thing is something id have to dig up more stats on, I think he had a high number of long ball completions last year .. boss is on my ass this morning

 

[Morneblade]

15 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

 

 

I wouldnt make a leap like that on the WRs based on one game against a team that was playing like that.

Why not shadow Doctson? He has the most potential out of all of our WRs and based on their coverage its not like we were throwing to other WRs. Who else is he going to shadow? Its not like he can cover Chris Thompson or Jordan Reed.

 

Jamison Crowder is the only guy we have that has done anything in the NFL, why not shadow him?

[MisterPinstripe]

1 minute ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

I hear ya and agree 100%. But when you hear the check down Alex stuff, 2014 season when a WR didnt make a single TD catch and the fact that he has gone 5 consecutive seasons with less than 10 ints .... its something you are looking at to see if there is truth to it or not. Is he a check down QB? My first impression is he is a really really good game manager that you can absolutely win with. I think our pieces (CT, Reed) are prefect for him. 

 

Its only 1 game, but it was definitely a conservative game and was what some people said he is.

 

He was second in YPA last year but he was way down in actual air yards which means he did what we saw yesterday, a lot of YAC. I give a QB credit for YAC bc that means they are getting the ball to the right guy at the right time with good ball placement, leading etc ..  

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2017/all#average-air-yards-differential

 

Not throwing ints is great, but I think being so low means you are checking down and not taking down field. You want a balance imo.

 

-----------------------------

 

I really liked what I saw ... but I saw what people were saying about him. 

 

For one game at least.

 

Sure, balance is good, cant argue with that. If I see him not being willing to throw it down the field when we really need it, either because of coverage or because we are down, Ill be concerned. I think a big part of why we didnt see it was also because he was being careful since we were up by 3+ touchdowns, why force it if we are in that situation and controlling the ball.

 

I didnt see this, but apparently Gruden was annoyed that Smith didnt make a deep throw late in the game and was talking to him about it when he came off the field. Smith told Gruden he thought about it, but decided not to. So he saw the opportunity, could have made the throw, but decided that based on where we were in the game there was no reason to take the risk.

 

So the question is, how do we feel about that if the lip reading was correct? He didnt take the chance as it was late in the game and we were in full control, but he saw it. Of course if he hit that throw we would have all been thrilled and it would have further buried the Cardinals.

Im perfectly okay with that decision today, but I will admit I hope that he takes that throw if its earlier in the game AND if the score is tighter. I honestly would have preferred that he took that chance Sunday as well. I know that we had it in hand but you never know in the NFL.

 

But on the flip side we have seen turnovers flip games and change momentum. Im torn and rambling, so Ill end that there.

8 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Jamison Crowder is the only guy we have that has done anything in the NFL, why not shadow him?

Because Patrick Peterson doesnt cover the slot and Crowder had a solid game but wasnt tearing them up. I think even if Crowder was having a 100 yard game that Peterson wouldnt cover him, hes not a slot guy.

1 hour ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

Couple of debbie downer thoughts:

 

- Vigil replaced Foster towards the end. Foster seemed in place at times just late, trailing. On a run play early on he did over pursue, went past the hole and allowed the RB to cut it back through the hole and take it up field.

 

Side note, I did notice as well that Foster seemed a bit slow/late at the beginning of the game. Had forgotten about it as I didnt notice any issues as the game went on and didnt notice that Vigil came in. Maybe that was to give him some experience and Foster a rest as we were in control?

[Morneblade]

2 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Because Patrick Peterson doesnt cover the slot and Crowder had a solid game but wasnt tearing them up. I think even if Crowder was having a 100 yard game that Peterson wouldnt cover him, hes not a slot guy.

 

Ok, not being a slot corner would be a good reason to not play there. But shadowing Doctson? Sorry, that really is a waste.

[Sandy Monk]

Guess people got to find something to complain about.

 

255 yards passing.

 

Crowder had 4 targets.

Richardson had 6 targets.

Doc had 3. 

 

Reed had 5 targets

CT had 7 targets.

 

 

Out of these 5 players, who are the superior players? 

 

Yep. Reed and CT.  So, I personally like targeting the better players, if the defense is allowing for it.

I also like the QB not taking big risks when up 21-0 on the road and the other team can't do squat offensively. 

 

 

[MisterPinstripe]

56 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Ok, not being a slot corner would be a good reason to not play there. But shadowing Doctson? Sorry, that really is a waste.

But why though? Where else would he go? Doctson hasn't showed he needs to be shadowed but what else would Peterson be doing? At least with Doctson he is a big physical guy which Peterson is probably better suited to. So might as well, what else would he be doing.

 

 

[petey hodge]

Tell you what...

one day later, watching MNF game 2...

im happy we don’t have to play the Rams this year.  That D looks fierce

[Master Blaster]

I loved the rotation on the D-line throughout the game.  Manusky/Tomsula finally have the horses to do it.

 

Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned is even though I love the Allen/Ion tandem at DT in Nickel, I liked the "big nickel" DT tandem of Settle and Payne.  One of the big reasons offenses put three receivers in is to get a D-lineman out to run the ball.  By going with two NT at DT, the run defense was stout.  Great playcalling and usage of personnel.

[Darth Tater]

2 hours ago, Why am I Mr. Pink? said:

 

I hear ya and agree 100%. But when you hear the check down Alex stuff, 2014 season when a WR didnt make a single TD catch and the fact that he has gone 5 consecutive seasons with less than 10 ints .... its something you are looking at to see if there is truth to it or not. Is he a check down QB? My first impression is he is a really really good game manager that you can absolutely win with. I think our pieces (CT, Reed) are prefect for him. 

 

Its only 1 game, but it was definitely a conservative game and was what some people said he is.

 

He was second in YPA last year but he was way down in actual air yards which means he did what we saw yesterday, a lot of YAC. I give a QB credit for YAC bc that means they are getting the ball to the right guy at the right time with good ball placement, leading etc ..  

 

https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing/2017/all#average-air-yards-differential

 

Not throwing ints is great, but I think being so low means you are checking down and not taking down field. You want a balance imo.

 

-----------------------------

 

I really liked what I saw ... but I saw what people were saying about him. 

 

For one game at least.

 

edit - the yards through air thing is something id have to dig up more stats on, I think he had a high number of long ball completions last year .. boss is on my ass this morning

 

Well, Sunday I saw only three or four check downs at most,  Most of his short passes were based on coverage reads, not progression and there was a lot of green and guys like CT, AP and Reed will kill you if you let them run in the open field,

2 hours ago, Morneblade said:

 

Jamison Crowder is the only guy we have that has done anything in the NFL, why not shadow him?

Jamison Crowder is another guy that will kill you on underneath routes.  He usually is only going to blow the top off bad secondaries or if you are trying to shadow him.

[Saeth29]

4 hours ago, justice98 said:

They took Oakland apart last year early in the season.  Why are we acting like we haven't seen this movie before?  

 

I believe that was when we were a totally healthy team, which is what we are at the moment.  This season, IMHO, will be dependent on how healthy we stay.  I think we were a playoff team last year without ALL the injuries.  If we are luckier this season in that regard, I think we push for the playoffs and we see more of the team we saw on Sunday.

[Morneblade]

1 hour ago, MisterPinstripe said:

But why though? Where else would he go? Doctson hasn't showed he needs to be shadowed but what else would Peterson be doing? At least with Doctson he is a big physical guy which Peterson is probably better suited to. So might as well, what else would he be doing.

 

 

 

Honestly, If I was going to have him shadow anyone, it would be Jordan Reed.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

3 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Honestly, If I was going to have him shadow anyone, it would be Jordan Reed.

 

If that happens, you audible to a run play and run at Peterson who while is a big corner, is still a corner.

[MisterPinstripe]

6 minutes ago, Morneblade said:

 

Honestly, If I was going to have him shadow anyone, it would be Jordan Reed.

That would make more sense, but again you are putting Peterson in the middle of the field even more than covering the slot, hes an outside corner. If Reed was split outside, definitely, but I still think Reed when win those match-ups.

 

And Im not defending our WRs or anything, I just cant logically see what else Peterson would be doing other than what the Cardinals had him do.

2 minutes ago, Alcoholic Zebra said:

 

If that happens, you audible to a run play and run at Peterson who while is a big corner, is still a corner.

Yes. This. Reed could probably actually block Peterson pretty well. And on top of that if you have Peterson covering the TE you have probably taken a LB out to fit Peterson in the middle on Reed so you have another DB on the outside instead. Easier to run against.

[Morneblade]

1 minute ago, MisterPinstripe said:

That would make more sense, but again you are putting Peterson in the middle of the field even more than covering the slot, hes an outside corner. If Reed was split outside, definitely, but I still think Reed when win those match-ups.

 

And Im not defending our WRs or anything, I just cant logically see what else Peterson would be doing other than what the Cardinals had him do.

Yes. This. Reed could probably actually block Peterson pretty well.

 

Maybe if he actually tired to block. But does that ever actually happen?

 

[MisterPinstripe]

1 minute ago, Morneblade said:

 

Maybe if he actually tired to block. But does that ever actually happen?

 

I actually saw him get at least one good block in on a run on Sunday, so that was cool.

 

But hes the best pass catching TE in the league if hes healthy, so I can forgive.

 

 

[mistertim]

I agree about Peterson...but on another note I'd really like to see a bunch of Reed vs Peterson one on ones. We all know that Reed is an outstanding route runner and has broken his fair share of CB ankles. Would be fascinating to see him up against one of the best in the game. Obviously he isn't going to beat PP with pure speed but his size + juking/route running ability makes him so damn hard to cover.

[redskinss]

1 hour ago, petey hodge said:

Tell you what...

one day later, watching MNF game 2...

im happy we don’t have to play the Rams this year.  That D looks fierce

I hope you're wrong about not playing the rams this year. 

[Wildbunny]

4 hours ago, JoeJacobyHOForRIOT said:

The lack of Wide Receiver involvement bothers me but then again i think of what Clinton Portis said post game. CP was like, As long as the Redskins don't get try to get fancy on offense and just do what they did today they are going to win alot of games. I'll go with the Pro's advice.

Interesting, because I think we did lots of fancy stuff during the 1st Half. Not way too much fancy like double reverse or stuff like that, but that forward pitch to CT standing on the LOS as Alex seemed to start scramble is what comes to mind to me here.

 

4 hours ago, justice98 said:

They took Oakland apart last year early in the season.  Why are we acting like we haven't seen this movie before?  

And to be honest, tearing Oakland apart camed before the injuries started to pile on on us.

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

Offense

Alex Smith's pre-snap identification and quick post-snap reads are invaluable.  Kirk did that a little, but it felt more like an area he was growing into rather than Alex who already has that command.

 

We really need to get AP comfortable with some runs from Shotgun.  He had at least 1 good one (that I remember) out of Shotgun.  If that continues, then Alex can do more RPO's and pre-snap audibles.  That I feel is the next big step for our offense, improved consistency.  I think that's why we gave CT more of a workload earlier on, he can operate well with Alex.

 

I'm curious about ratio of runs out of Shotgun vs Under Center in the 1st Half compared to the 2nd Half.  I have a feeling once we dominated in the 1st half, we went more conservative, closed the playbook a bit (no point in showing Colts and Packers more stuff), and went with more Under Center work relying on AP.  I'd have liked to have spelled AP a bit more with Fat Rob.  I know AP is a freak, but he's 33 years old and had injuries his past two years.  Keeping him fresh in a game the defense is controlling and the lead is 3+ scores seems smart.

 

I read Mark Bullock's piece on the Athletic, and he mentions the Cardinals D was determined for no big shots down field.  They had at least one safety backpedaling at the snap most of the time.  In Bullock's opinion, the lone shot deep to Paul Richardson was the only good deep opportunity all game.  So from that, it doesn't seem like Alex was gunshy or scared of the deep ball, he was just letting the deep receivers occupy more defenders and then work underneath.

 

Defense

Really liked what I saw from everything.  We were spelling players in the D frequently.  Zach Brown played about 30% fewer total D snaps than last season.  We rotated Josh Harvey-Clemons in his place on more passing situations.  I think it's awesome that the coaches are already doing this and not pretending everyone can do everything.  I like that our depth is there and we developed someone like JHC last season.

 

Our DL had a heavy rotation.  I wish our pass rush did more.  It's awesome Anderson got his first sack (anyone have a link to that clip?) and Ioannidis iced the game, but I still felt like Bradford had a bit too much time to operate.  Maybe that's because he was getting the ball out quickly.  Maybe I also had an unreasonable expectation for our pass rush.

 

I think the team loves Swearinger.  After that pass deflection they swarmed off the sidelines to congratulate him.  If he makes a play it will fire up the rest of the defense.  Secondary as a whole looked great.