2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Skinsinparadise]

I can't post tweets from where I am at but saw tweets from Finlay and among the ones that struck me draft related. He said Jay's points included:

 

A. He wants a qb who can win right away.

B. Drew Lock is experienced and can win right away.

C. Haskins might not be ready to win right away 

D. He gets that their one dimensional TEs tips off defenses and it's a problem.

[Anselmheifer]

3 hours ago, PlayAction said:

 

A waste if you expect him to become a franchise QB.  Not a waste if you just need a QB to fill in if your starter is out for a game.  Without 2 backups the team gets stuck with the butt-fumbler and others that are the equivalent of bingo callers.   Smith will be on IR next season so they can devote a roster spot to a 3rd QB.  The Skins had it right with Nate Sundfeld (6th round pick) but left him on the practice squad.  So instead of paying 630k for the backup the Skins are paying in the $5million range.  

Who cares if our crappy starter misses a couple of games and we lose? We aren't a good enough team to say, "what if the starter goes down for a few weeks and that causes us to miss the playoffs?!?". In this draft we should potentially be grabbing starters at other positions in the 3rd and 4th. Want to pass up on a starting guard, WR, LB, pass rusher, etc? Give me Andy Isabella, Jachai Polite, Germaine Pratt, Ben Bonagu, or any number of interior OL in the 3rd and 4th before we draft some crappy back up QB that will be on his second contract or out of the league before we have a real starting QB and are contending for the playoffs. Cousins and Dak are the very rare exceptions. We are not talent rich enough to be wasting draft resources like that. 

[PlayAction]

7 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Who cares if our crappy starter misses a couple of games and we lose? We aren't a good enough team to say, "what if the starter goes down for a few weeks and that causes us to miss the playoffs?!?". In this draft we should potentially be grabbing starters at other positions in the 3rd and 4th. Want to pass up on a starting guard, WR, LB, pass rusher, etc? Give me Andy Isabella, Jachai Polite, Germaine Pratt, Ben Bonagu, or any number of interior OL in the 3rd and 4th before we draft some crappy back up QB that will be on his second contract or out of the league before we have a real starting QB and are contending for the playoffs. Cousins and Dak are the very rare exceptions. We are not talent rich enough to be wasting draft resources like that. 

 

Sudfeld cost a 6th round pick.  I'm not advocating spending picks in rounds 1-3 for a backup QB.  Skins don't currently have a 4th but anything in the 5-7 rounds is fair game if the QB has value.

[Skin'emAlive]

Lock is experienced and ready to win right away even though he was mediocre against good teams, but Haskins isn’t? I dunno about that. 

 

If anything, those tweets are a big nod in Hockinsons favor

[RWJ]

2 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I can't post tweets from where I am at but saw tweets from Finlay and among the ones that struck me draft related. He said Jay's points included:

 

A. He wants a qb who can win right away.

B. Drew Lock is experienced and can win right away.

C. Haskins might not be ready to win right away 

D. He gets that their one dimensional TEs tips off defenses and it's a problem.

From what you've stated (Jay) not Allen wants Lock (Rosen if available even though you haven't mentioned it here but we know Jay loves Rosen) and he wants to draft a TE rather high in the draft (1st 3 rounds, I'm guessing).

[TheMalcolmConnection]

Metcalf = Devin Thomas 2.0 to me.

[PlayAction]

It's always interesting to see some of the NFL mock drafts.  Here is Bucky Brooks' beginning with pick 15.   Given the players on the board from 15-32 I don't think I would want the Skins to choose Marquise Brown.  Ideally, I would hope the Skins trade down but if that's not possible I think I might choose one of the CBs as the best value for the Skins (Byron Murphy or Greedy Williams). 

 

15.  Marquise Brown - WR

Brown is arguably the best deep threat in the 2019 NFL Draft as a speedster with exceptional quickness and burst. He could play in the slot or give Washington another weapon on the outside.

 

PICK

16   Clelin Ferrell - Edge

Ferrell is a straight-line pass rusher with a knack for getting to the quarterback.

 

PICK

17  Daniel Jones - QB

Jones could be the perfect successor to Eli Manning based on the Duke product's pedigree (David Cutcliffe, who coached Manning at Ole Miss, coached Jones in Durham for the past four years) and unflappable demeanor.

 

PICK

18  Ed Oliver - DT

The loss of Sheldon Richardson ( signed with the Browns) leaves a void in the middle of the defense. The ultra-explosive Oliver could thrive as a penetrating three-technique on a defensive line loaded with A-plus talent.

 

PICK

19  Irv Smith Jr. - TE

It might be time for the Titans to find Delanie Walker's successor based on his age and injury history. Smith is an athletic pass catcher with the speed, quickness and burst to create problems between the hashes.

 

PICK

20 Byron Murphy - CB

The Steelers could use a high IQ cover corner with superb instincts and a diverse skill set. Murphy is a perfect candidate to excel as a CB1 in a defense that mixes man and zone concepts.

 

PICK

21 Jaylon Ferguson - Edge

The FBS all-time sack leader would be a suitable complement or successor to Frank Clark as an edge rusher.

 

PICK

22 D.K. Metcalf - WR

Despite missing on the last two receivers they drafted in Round 1 ( Breshad Perriman and Mark Clayton), the Ravens could take a flier on Metcalf, who would provide big-play potential in a run-heavy offense that creates plenty of one-on-one opportunities.

 

PICK

23 Greedy Williams - CB

Williams is an explosive athlete with the press-man skills and hands to be a turnover machine on the island. He would excel in Romeo Crennel's defense, with the potential to be a true CB1 in a year or so.

 

PICK

24  Drew Lock - QB

Gruden's love affair with Lock at the Senior Bowl could prompt him to take the Mizzou standout and make him the Raiders' franchise quarterback of the future.

 

PICK

25 Josh Jacobs - RB

The Eagles need a dynamic RB1 in the backfield to create more explosive plays. Jacobs can grind out the tough yards between the tackles or deliver some sizzle plays on perimeter runs and swing passes out of the backfield.

 

PICK

26 Johnathan Abram - S

Abrams is the enforcer the Colts need to complement ballhawk Malik Hooker. The Mississippi State star is an exceptional run defender with the toughness and power to patrol the middle of the field.

 

PICK

27 Rock Ya-Sin - CB

Mike Mayock loves corners who have great feet and tough-guy personas. Ya-Sin is a blue-collar cover corner with the versatility to play out wide or in the slot.

 

PICK

28 Dexter Lawrence - DT

Given free agent Corey Liuget's uncertain status, Lawrence could be a target for the Chargers at this pick. As a massive space eater with exceptional athleticism, Lawrence will occupy blockers and create opportunities for the team's linebackers to flow freely to the ball.

 

PICK

29 Deandre Baker - CB

The Jim Thorpe Award winner has the ball skills, instincts and courage to make a ton of plays on the island.

 

PICK

30 A.J. Brown - WR

Route runners with size, speed and hands are always coveted at a premium. Brown is a rock-solid WR2 with outstanding potential as a big slot receiver.

 

PICK

31  Garrett Bradbury - C

High IQ pivot with outstanding movement skills and technique. Bradbury plays like a 10-year vet at the position and would add more youth and athleticism to the frontline.

 

PICK

32  Christian Wilkins - DT

Wilkins' versatility and explosiveness could make him a perfect match for the Patriots' chameleon-like scheme.

[Skin'emAlive]

After a while the mocks are just shuffling targets to keep putting out new articles. No one really thinks Jaylon Ferguson or Daniel jones are going first round. 

[Cskin]

Here's my take:

 

All this talk of a 1st Rd. QB is a head fake...Skins don't like any of them enough to pull the trigger in the 1st.  I think the Skins are content to BPA or trade back and get a QB in 2020 or Rosen.  In fact, the moment Cardinals take Murray with #1, their leverage is lost and will dump Rosen for whatever they can get.  Teams will know they have lost faith in him and aren't going to pony up more than a 3rd... maybe not even that.

 

So Skins take Edge in Rd. 1, WR in Rd 2, BPA in Rd 3 (+2), and look for OL help later on Day 3.

 

As for QB? A developmental guy.  I think they like Finley or Stidham.  My sneaky hunch?  They like Easton Stick because he's run a pro offense and wins, is proficient in RPO and RO, but they want him Rd. 5 or later.     

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, RWJ said:

From what you've stated (Jay) not Allen wants Lock (Rosen if available even though you haven't mentioned it here but we know Jay loves Rosen) and he wants to draft a TE rather high in the draft (1st 3 rounds, I'm guessing).

 

Dont think though we know for sure. As for we know Jay loves Rosen, how do we know that?  If so, I must have missed something.

 

[HigSkin]

Hope they take Jones....

 

 

[RWJ]

12 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Dont think though we know for sure. As for we know Jay loves Rosen, how do we know that?  If so, I must have missed something.

 

Public opinion but we know how that goes. 

[ToaCommander]

1 hour ago, PlayAction said:

It's always interesting to see some of the NFL mock drafts.  Here is Bucky Brooks' beginning with pick 15.   Given the players on the board from 15-32 I don't think I would want the Skins to choose Marquise Brown.  Ideally, I would hope the Skins trade down but if that's not possible I think I might choose one of the CBs as the best value for the Skins (Byron Murphy or Greedy Williams). 

 

15.  Marquise Brown - WR

Brown is arguably the best deep threat in the 2019 NFL Draft as a speedster with exceptional quickness and burst. He could play in the slot or give Washington another weapon on the outside.

 

 

PICK

16   Clelin Ferrell - Edge

Ferrell is a straight-line pass rusher with a knack for getting to the quarterback.

 

 

PICK

24  Drew Lock - QB

Gruden's love affair with Lock at the Senior Bowl could prompt him to take the Mizzou standout and make him the Raiders' franchise quarterback of the future.

 

 

 

My feelings on the draft is I hope in the first round (15) is:

•    we take the best available pass rusher like Ferrell above
•    Or if FO thinks Lock is a potential franchise QB take him
•    ILB Devin white or Devin Bush

Our 2nd round pick

   we take the best guard/tackle available like Ford, Lindstrom, Risner, Bradbury

•    or best fit WR like Campbell or Hakeem Butler
•    or TE like Irv Smith, Noah Fant

Third round (if we take OLB, G)

•    we go WR like McLaurin, Deebo Samuels 
•    OLB - Ben Banogu
•    ILB

 

[HigSkin]

Ugh!

 

 

[Est.1974]

Bruce wants 10-12 players out of this draft. Way it was said didn't really seem to include UDFA. Not exactly feasible by trading the farm to move up. Smokescreen or not, who the hell knows.

[Conn]

Valuing who a player has been coached by so highly, despite how they actually play, is how you get Hackenberg in the second. There are a lot of dumb NFL teams out there who think they're way smarter and better able to develop guys than they are. Someone is going to fall into the Daniel Jones trap due to his tools and connections and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's us. Which will then ruin our next inevitable GM and HC search as the first filter will be "who most convincingly lies through their teeth and says they can fix Daniel Jones", which is part of how we got Gruden in the first place. 

 

He is the definition of coach-killer imo and would taint the next regime as well. 

[Skinsinparadise]

34 minutes ago, RWJ said:

Public opinion but we know how that goes. 

 

Tough for me to guage right now any of their sentiment on qbs aside from Murray. Murray is the only guy where I notice consistent opinions about them loving him.

 

Otherwise its different takes and sometimes conflicting ones.  JLC says they like Haskins, Sheehan says Jay does not like Haskins,   Finlay thinks Jay would dig Lock. Hoffman says they are not high on him. 

 

IMO if anyone loves Rosen they should have no problem giving up a first.   I wouldn't myself. But if I loved any young qb I'd happily give up a first.

 

The only thing I recall on Rosen was if I recall Keim saying they liked him before the 2018 draft. But he was not sure how intensley they felt about him now. Although trading a pick for him is on the table but not a first rounder.

 

I think teams are doing a good job smoke screening their desires at qb. Lets take Rosen. I've read different reports about the Giants liking Rosen and then ones saying they don't. Ditto the Patriots on him,

 

Seems like an ongoing soap ooera where the narrative chsnges week to week,  and I have to give teams including the Redsjins kudos for confusing the heck out of me as to their intentions at qb.  Often I think i can piece some things together when i find multiple sources converge on the same opinion,  but that's not happening yet.

 

[Peregrine]

1 hour ago, UK SKINS FAN '74 said:

Bruce wants 10-12 players out of this draft. Way it was said didn't really seem to include UDFA. Not exactly feasible by trading the farm to move up. Smokescreen or not, who the hell knows.

Id really like to believe that, but as you said, who the hell knows.  Bruce also says he wants to win, but then does the opposite...

[Commander Adama]

1 hour ago, HigSkin said:

Ugh!

 

 

I am with you. His Sophomore year he threw pretty much 1:1 ratio of TD to Interceptions.

[Nerm]

I don't think it would be smart for the Redskins to jump into the top 5 to get ahead of Giants and grab a QB like Haskins.  I do think it would be smart to make the Giants think that they have to trade up to get the guy they want.  So, I would maybe float some rumors that they are talking with the Jets or Raiders. Hope the Giants trade up to get a guy they could have had at #6.  Also, if you think the Giants like a QB at 17, make them think the Skins really like them at 15.  

 

Last year Philly traded up ahead of Dallas to grab the TE Goddert, because they thought for sure that Dallas was going to take him.  But, the Cowboys were already on the phone with the OL guy they wanted, lots of big smiles in the Cowboys war room when Philly's pick was announced.

[Rufus T Firefly]

1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Valuing who a player has been coached by so highly, despite how they actually play, is how you get Hackenberg in the second. There are a lot of dumb NFL teams out there who think they're way smarter and better able to develop guys than they are. Someone is going to fall into the Daniel Jones trap due to his tools and connections and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's us. Which will then ruin our next inevitable GM and HC search as the first filter will be "who most convincingly lies through their teeth and says they can fix Daniel Jones", which is part of how we got Gruden in the first place. 

 

He is the definition of coach-killer imo and would taint the next regime as well. 

I guess I don't understand how "he was well coached" makes a poor player more appealing. It would seem to me that if a guy didn't become a good player with good college coaching it would make him less likely to be fixed by NFL coaching.

 

But maybe that's just me.

[mistertim]

6 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

I can't post tweets from where I am at but saw tweets from Finlay and among the ones that struck me draft related. He said Jay's points included:

 

A. He wants a qb who can win right away.

B. Drew Lock is experienced and can win right away.

C. Haskins might not be ready to win right away 

D. He gets that their one dimensional TEs tips off defenses and it's a problem.

 

Honestly, I don't see either Lock or Haskins as "plug and play" rookies. I think both may struggle mightily if thrown to the wolves. Haskins because of his lack of experience and Lock because he had such great protection and his passing dipped so noticeably when he played good defenses who got pressure on him. And neither of them have the athleticism angle of Murray that they could fall back on to make up for it. That being said, I'd take Haskins before Lock as I think he's a cleaner overall QB prospect and with more experience could be a really good NFL passer. Lock I'm still not that high on, though there's no denying his arm talent and personality. 

 

1 hour ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

Valuing who a player has been coached by so highly, despite how they actually play, is how you get Hackenberg in the second. There are a lot of dumb NFL teams out there who think they're way smarter and better able to develop guys than they are. Someone is going to fall into the Daniel Jones trap due to his tools and connections and I wouldn't be at all surprised if it's us. Which will then ruin our next inevitable GM and HC search as the first filter will be "who most convincingly lies through their teeth and says they can fix Daniel Jones", which is part of how we got Gruden in the first place. 

 

He is the definition of coach-killer imo and would taint the next regime as well. 

 

I don't really see Jones as a "coach killer". I generally see that in guys who are hard to coach, hard headed, etc. I don't think Jones is any of that stuff. I just think he's a completely pedestrian QB without any real top attributes outside of being coached by a guy who happened to do offseason coaching with Peyton and Eli. And I agree with you there...that is being way overhyped. IMO Jones is a 2nd rounder at best, but closer to a 3rd or 4th.

 

God I REALLY hope the Giants take him high.

 

27 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Tough for me to guage right now any of their sentiment on qbs aside from Murray. Murray is the only guy where I notice consistent opinions about them loving him.

 

Otherwise its different takes and sometimes conflicting ones.  JLC says they like Haskins, Sheehan says Jay does not like Haskins,   Finlay thinks Jay would dig Lock. Hoffman says they are not high on him. 

 

IMO if anyone loves Rosen they should have no problem giving up a first.   I wouldn't myself. But if I loved any young qb I'd happily give up a first.

 

The only thing I recall on Rosen was if I recall Keim saying they liked him before the 2018 draft. But he was not sure how intensley they felt about him now. Although trading a pick for him is on the table but not a first rounder.

 

I think teams are doing a good job smoke screening their desires at qb. Lets take Rosen. I've read different reports about the Giants liking Rosen and then ones saying they don't. Ditto the Patriots on him,

 

Seems like an ongoing soap ooera where the narrative chsnges week to week,  and I have to give teams including the Redsjins kudos for confusing the heck out of me as to their intentions at qb.  Often I think i can piece some things together when i find multiple sources converge on the same opinion,  but that's not happening yet.

 

 

I think I take everything with a grain of salt right now. How much do they really love Murray? They've got to know there's almost zero chance of them getting him so why not heap praise on him and let it be known that great they think he is, especially if it might push the Cards even further in that direction and get them to give up Rosen for a decent price. Murray doesn't really seem like a Jay sort of QB and Jay isn't the kind of coach who I'd see evolving his playbook to suit Murray's strengths. 

 

I could see Jay liking Haskins since he is very clean, seems to go through progressions and read defenses well, and has nice mechanics...but the lack of experience is a ding there for him with Jay I'm guessing. 

 

I could definitely see Jay liking Rosen. Smooth, almost flawless footwork, great throwing mechanics, experience in multiple pro style offenses, very cerebral QB. They might not have said much of anything about him before the draft last year but that was because there was basically a 0% chance of us getting him. We had signed AS and basically there was no chance Rosen would drop to us anyway.

 

Lock I'm not sure on. Jay doesn't seem to put a ton of stock in a guy needing a cannon which IMO is Lock's biggest selling point. 

 

However, I could see other people in the building having rather different ideas so it all comes down to who makes the calls at the end of the day. But of course I could be completely backwards so who knows.

[Conn]

19 minutes ago, mistertim said:

I don't really see Jones as a "coach killer". I generally see that in guys who are hard to coach, hard headed, etc. I don't think Jones is any of that stuff. I just think he's a completely pedestrian QB without any real top attributes outside of being coached by a guy who happened to do offseason coaching with Peyton and Eli. And I agree with you there...that is being way overhyped. IMO Jones is a 2nd rounder at best, but closer to a 3rd or 4th.

 

By that I really just meant that making a 1st round value investment in Daniel Jones would not only finish sinking Gruden, who is already doggy-paddling in the ocean with an anvil wrapped around his neck, but also sink the next FO/coaching staff which would no doubt be formed entirely around the criteria that all parties involved must sell the idea that they want to save that draft pick. 

 

19 minutes ago, mistertim said:

God I REALLY hope the Giants take him high.

 

Agreed. 

[RWJ]

1 hour ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Tough for me to guage right now any of their sentiment on qbs aside from Murray. Murray is the only guy where I notice consistent opinions about them loving him.

 

Otherwise its different takes and sometimes conflicting ones.  JLC says they like Haskins, Sheehan says Jay does not like Haskins,   Finlay thinks Jay would dig Lock. Hoffman says they are not high on him. 

 

IMO if anyone loves Rosen they should have no problem giving up a first.   I wouldn't myself. But if I loved any young qb I'd happily give up a first.

 

The only thing I recall on Rosen was if I recall Keim saying they liked him before the 2018 draft. But he was not sure how intensley they felt about him now. Although trading a pick for him is on the table but not a first rounder.

 

I think teams are doing a good job smoke screening their desires at qb. Lets take Rosen. I've read different reports about the Giants liking Rosen and then ones saying they don't. Ditto the Patriots on him,

 

Seems like an ongoing soap ooera where the narrative chsnges week to week,  and I have to give teams including the Redsjins kudos for confusing the heck out of me as to their intentions at qb.  Often I think i can piece some things together when i find multiple sources converge on the same opinion,  but that's not happening yet.

 

HigSkin posted a tweet over on the Starting QB thread that mentioned how Jay feels about Rosen.

[TheShredder]

3 hours ago, Cskin said:

Here's my take:

 

All this talk of a 1st Rd. QB is a head fake...Skins don't like any of them enough to pull the trigger in the 1st.  I think the Skins are content to BPA or trade back and get a QB in 2020 or Rosen.  In fact, the moment Cardinals take Murray with #1, their leverage is lost and will dump Rosen for whatever they can get.  Teams will know they have lost faith in him and aren't going to pony up more than a 3rd... maybe not even that.

 

So Skins take Edge in Rd. 1, WR in Rd 2, BPA in Rd 3 (+2), and look for OL help later on Day 3.

If the Cards take Murray, it's not certain they'd move on from Rosen unless someone gives them a second rounder, as there would be plenty of time in the day to get that second rounder.  My view is that it will be more telling what the Giants do at #6.  NY will have to give the Cards a higher draft pick for Rosen anyone else because there's too much time and +25 more picks before the 2nd round.  If the Giants want Rosen, then they'll have to give them their high second round pick.  They could trade down their other 1st round pick and make up that 2nd rounder. It's more likely that the Giants will get Rosen then anyone else.

 

I think the Skins are looking at Ryan Anderson to play opposite Kerrigan and are more likely to address their lack of a #1 WR in the draft.  Good debate and anticipation with regards to what they actually do with their #15 pick.  Taking Marquise Brown at #15 is not a stretch.  Metcalf is a far more risky pick then M.Brown. 

 

Agree, their not taking a QB early in the draft, rather likely to take a developmental guy in the late rounds.  Also don't think they'd stretch to take Josh Rosen.  Of course the FO sucks so who knows!