2019 Comprehensive Draft Thread

[Conn]

I'll take Murray standing pat or with a small trade up. He's exciting and whether he ever develops or not, he'll be a fun ride. We aren't the type of organization to build things correctly and win a SB so we might as well root for a fairly unique star. We will still have an awful year, and after Gruden and Allen falter and get canned, scrapping everything and salvaging the Murray pick will become priority #1--if we were tied to a stiff like Daniel Jones I'd hate to base the next hire off of whoever thinks they can "make" him--but with a talent like Murray, even with his risks, I think that it would necessarily lead us into a progressive, innovative offensive hire which is what I want and where the league is heading. So whether he pans out or not I think the future hire his presence would produce would have a better shot at being "good process". And if he flashed big time as a rookie, even in failure? That's the type of star upside qualified GM candidates and young coaching minds want to tie themselves to, which could offset the Snyder factor. 

[Koala]

How are there still people seriously talking about Murray?  He's RG3 lite -- ran too spread/non-NFL-type offe se, only he smaller, he is less accurate, and he has less arm strength than RG3. This is the worst idea ever.  

 

Why have the Redskins stopped talking about D. Haskins?  Hes much more of prototype NGL QB.  

 

I swear B. Allen is dumb as all hell.  Even if he doesn't think we should pay the price for Haskins, he should realize that the NY Giants --our division NFl --are absolutely in LOVE with Haskins and talking about trading up to get him if necessary.  We should at least pretend to be interested in trading for Haskins, if for no other reason than to screw NY by driving up the price to get him.

 

Instead the only rumours out of SKINS park is about the baseball player, not a peep about Haskins.  Unless Allen is really interested in trading up for Haskins and doesn't want to drive up the price by talking  about him then hes failing at GM 101 -- if you cant get who you want make sure your rivals got to pay an arm and a leg to get what they want!

 

[bakedtater1]

Kyler Murray...we will pass on him and he'll be successful for someone else.

Duz know won dubble cheq thiere spelling anymore here? What's a NGL QB..oh wait as I was typing that out I found the f letter next to the g letter..I get it nevermind

[Anselmheifer]

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/17/kyler-murray-nfl-draft-lincoln-riley-peter-king-fmia/

 

The above article is a good piece about Murray. I am becoming more confident of Murray's chances, and of the fact that he won't be there when we draft. 

Also, why are the skins always so transparent in the pre-draft process. People shouldn't know that we like Daniel Jones, if that is true. It's just crazy. Hopefully some other idiot catches wind of that and trades up over us to take him. 

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

8 hours ago, ConnSKINS26 said:

I'll take Murray standing pat or with a small trade up. He's exciting and whether he ever develops or not, he'll be a fun ride. We aren't the type of organization to build things correctly and win a SB so we might as well root for a fairly unique star. We will still have an awful year, and after Gruden and Allen falter and get canned, scrapping everything and salvaging the Murray pick will become priority #1--if we were tied to a stiff like Daniel Jones I'd hate to base the next hire off of whoever thinks they can "make" him--but with a talent like Murray, even with his risks, I think that it would necessarily lead us into a progressive, innovative offensive hire which is what I want and where the league is heading. So whether he pans out or not I think the future hire his presence would produce would have a better shot at being "good process". And if he flashed big time as a rookie, even in failure? That's the type of star upside qualified GM candidates and young coaching minds want to tie themselves to, which could offset the Snyder factor. 

 

This is a good point. Drafting a high end QB gives us a chance to hire a hotshot young coach to work with that QB. If we can just establish that we have a QB, given that we also have a stud DL and potentially ILB, we should be able to attract a quality offensive HC and a solid DC. 

[goskins10]

49 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

This is a good point. Drafting a high end QB gives us a chance to hire a hotshot young coach to work with that QB. If we can just establish that we have a QB, given that we also have a stud DL and potentially ILB, we should be able to attract a quality offensive HC and a solid DC. 

 

Or, we can for the first time since shanny (Cousins not Robert), let a new coach actually pick his own QB. This is how it's supposed to work. We keep doing things backwards. 

 

I do not have faith in Dan to do this, but he needs to hire a president, that hires a GM. The two of them work together to find the HC they want. The HC hires his staff and the GM and HC work to build the roster they want. 

 

Just not sure why Dan is so adverse to doing this. It's not exactly rocket science. Getting the right combo is difficult enough when you approach it correctly. When you do it all half baked it makes it near impossible to be successful. 

[Anselmheifer]

27 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Or, we can for the first time since shanny (Cousins not Robert), let a new coach actually pick his own QB. This is how it's supposed to work. We keep doing things backwards. 

 

I think this is a myth. There are tons of examples of a HC not picking his QB. Even with new QB's. Easy young QB's for whom this has been the case are Baker Mayfield and Jared Goff. It's not super exciting to go down the list of starting QB's and do this, but there are just as many examples where successful QB's weren't drafted by their current coach, or even by the coach for whom they first found great success. 

 

Also, I'm going to update my offensive draft update. Hockenson in the 1st, Deebo in the second, Andy Isabella and interior OL in the 3rd. Hockenson, Deebo, Isabella and Guice would be an extraordinarily strong offensive core. There probably isn't an All Pro WR1 there, but it's still a ton of talent. 

Lastly Kiper updated his mock. He has Hockenson going at 8 to Detroit. That is probably more realistic. He has Murray going at 13 to Miami, and us taking Lock at 15. I have to be honest. I don't like Lock as a franchise QB. He has a fantastic arm. He's not accurate and isn't good under pressure. If the draft falls like this, I would trade down and find better value. 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/insider/story/_/id/26018010/mel-kiper-2019-nfl-mock-draft-first-round-pick-predictions-rankings-1-32-draft-order

[Mania]

On 1/31/2019 at 9:09 AM, volsmet said:

 

Yes, I watched every snap of every ravens game, I watched every snap of his in college, I bet against him, su, as a 17.5 point favorite v Houston because of his limitations v, well, simply Ed Oliver; we will have to agree to disagree on Lamar, my issues with him are many, I’d be shocked if he proves to be a top 20 qb over the next 10 years.

 

Polian contributed to a roster or two before Peyton. I accept & sincerely appreciate your criticisms, we simply land in different places on those two topics. 

 

 

We can disagree, that’s why it’s called an opinion.  

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, Koala said:

How are there still people seriously talking about Murray?  He's RG3 lite -- ran too spread/non-NFL-type offe se, only he smaller, he is less accurate, and he has less arm strength than RG3. This is the worst idea ever.  

 

Why have the Redskins stopped talking about D. Haskins?  Hes much more of prototype NGL QB.  

 

I swear B. Allen is dumb as all hell.  Even if he doesn't think we should pay the price for Haskins, he should realize that the NY Giants --our division NFl --are absolutely in LOVE with Haskins and talking about trading up to get him if necessary.  We should at least pretend to be interested in trading for Haskins, if for no other reason than to screw NY by driving up the price to get him.

 

Instead the only rumours out of SKINS park is about the baseball player, not a peep about Haskins.  Unless Allen is really interested in trading up for Haskins and doesn't want to drive up the price by talking  about him then hes failing at GM 101 -- if you cant get who you want make sure your rivals got to pay an arm and a leg to get what they want!

 

 

I certainly have my criticisms of Murray but he isn't really an RG3 clone IMO. Yes they both ran a lot but Murray is far quicker than RG3 was; he has excellent lateral agility whereas RG3 was mostly straight line speed. Murray's footwork (from a QB standpoint) is also superior...RG3's footwork was relatively slow and Murray has a faster release. I'd say their accuracy is comparable though. Arm strength as well is pretty equal and I actually wouldn't be surprised if the ball were clocked faster coming out of Murray's hand due to the baseball background. 

 

They do both come from spread systems though, so you're right there. They also both run way too much for my liking and Murray certainly is quite a bit smaller...though his body seems a bit more compact than RG3's. Either way, Murray is going to absolutely have to temper his running instincts in the NFL because IMO he pulls the ball down and runs far too often and he's going to get absolutely killed that way in the NFL. Nobody could really catch him in college but that's going to change drastically in the pros. 

[goskins10]

12 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

I think this is a myth. There are tons of examples of a HC not picking his QB. Even with new QB's. Easy young QB's for whom this has been the case are Baker Mayfield and Jared Goff. It's not super exciting to go down the list of starting QB's and do this, but there are just as many examples where successful QB's weren't drafted by their current coach, or even by the coach for whom they first found great success. 

 

Also, I'm going to update my offensive draft update. Hockenson in the 1st, Deebo in the second, Andy Isabella and interior OL in the 3rd. Hockenson, Deebo, Isabella and Guice would be an extraordinarily strong offensive core. There probably isn't an All Pro WR1 there, but it's still a ton of talent. 

Lastly Kiper updated his mock. He has Hockenson going at 8 to Detroit. That is probably more realistic. He has Murray going at 13 to Miami, and us taking Lock at 15. I have to be honest. I don't like Lock as a franchise QB. He has a fantastic arm. He's not accurate and isn't good under pressure. If the draft falls like this, I would trade down and find better value. 

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2019/insider/story/_/id/26018010/mel-kiper-2019-nfl-mock-draft-first-round-pick-predictions-rankings-1-32-draft-order

 

 

Of course you can find cases where it has worked the other way. The franchise has been trying the other way for years. More importantly, and to the direct statement you made, when enticing a new HC, is it easier to notice someone with a QB they must find a way to make successful or where they have a chance to pick their own QB? 

 

If you are a prospective HC, is it a better situation to come to a team where the president, GM, HC and coaches are all picked a la cart, or by developing a culture and strategy that is aligned from the top of the organization to the point you get to shape the roster and pick your own QB? Sorry, what you call myth is the traditional method of building a team. And yes it works much more than it doesn't. Can it work other ways, of course. No one is saying it can;t. But this team has tried this backwards ass method of developing a team for too many years. I would like to see them at least try this time, since they will pretty much need to blow the FO up anyway, why not try to the more traditional approach? 

 

What this really comes down to is you prefer getting a QB now and are using luring a HC as a reason to go that route. i am not saying that's invalid. I get it. I just completely disagree. I do not want then to draft a QB this year. In fact I want them to stay as far away from drafting a QB as possible outside maybe, and I say maybe a very late round developmental guy that is there in case we lose the top two QBs to injury again - something they should have had last year - hence mr. butt fumble. 

 

I would prefer they work on the Oline and the back end of the D. Then next year when they get a new HC - or even if they get through the year successfully meaning Jay will likely be here more than just this year then let's let the HC pick a QB they want to work with. 

 

What I fear is that Bruce will pull some crazy ass trade to get a QB when it's not really who Jay wants and then we end up trying to find a HC that fits our QB. Again, why not build properly? We have the chance. 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Just looked at Kiper's mock, wild changes from previous ones for him.  I don't take him seriously as an analyst but his mocks he claims are based on using his ESPN sources so on that front its interesting.

 

I like where he ends up for the Redskins.  Drew Lock at 15.

 

But he has most of my man crushes going before 15, guys that in previous mocks or other mocks are typically available at 15. 

 

Hockenson #8

Metcalf #9

M. Brown #12

K. Murray #13

 

After our pick, some players of note:

 

Ferrell #16

Polite #21

D. Jones #32 

[Skinsinparadise]

“His speed, obviously, is off the charts,” Riley said. “He’ll be the fastest quarterback in the NFL by a longshot the day he walks in the door. But on top of that, I think the things as a runner and athletically he brings, and his elite quickness, will be important. And then he just has a feel. He knows how to play the game. He knows when the moments are big and he needs to strain to get a first down. He’s not going to take unnecessary hits. He’s kind of got the body to withstand a few, but I almost compare him—I know this is high praise—but I mean, it’s almost kind of like a Barry Sanders effect. Yes I’m small for the position but I’m so athletic and so smart that I just rarely take big shots. Kyler took a lot less hits even than Baker did. A lot less. He was never really beat up after a game. The guy can stay healthy and he’s pretty smart. He’s got just a really, really unique skill set of having home-run speed but also home-run quickness to go with that.

“Now, would you be crazy to draft a guy like this and not use his athleticism? In my opinion, yes. But I think this guy can go and be in the pocket 75 percent of the time and be an extremely successful NFL quarterback. This guy can win from the pocket and that’s what makes him unique.

“And he just gets the game, man. He just understands the right time of when he needs to check down. He understands game situations. He’s played so much football in his life.

“I think too, in the NFL, I could see even giving people more problems than he did in college just because in our game, teams are used to seeing a pretty athletic quarterback almost every week.”

Mayfield started for three seasons in Norman, Murray one. Riley was Mayfield’s offensive coordinator for two years and head coach for one, then the head coach and play-caller for Murray last year. I asked Riley to compare them. The confidence, the feel for the game, the competitive gene—pretty much the same in both.

“Baker’s a lot more outwardly emotional and exuberant and more outspoken,” Riley said. “Kyler’s got a little bit more of a quiet intensity. The effect is similar. When they’re in the huddle, the other guys believe they’re going to win.”

https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2019/02/17/kyler-murray-nfl-draft-lincoln-riley-peter-king-fmia/

 

 

 

[CurseReversed]

Not too familiar with Murray but I remember specifically noticing how often RG3 took hits in college.  He was getting crushed all the time, before he even came to the nfl. 

Not sure if its fair to compare him to other mobile college qb's who have a much better knack for not taking hits.

[Skinsinparadise]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Skinsinparadise]

Was just listening to Tony Pauline on 106.7.  Same dude who loved Daron Payne and predicted the Redskins would take him last year. 

 

Some of his takes:

 

A.  He thinks depending on the combine, decent chance Kyler is there for the Redskins at 15.   Doesn't think he's the Giants or Jax's type of Qb.  He's not sure about Denver.  He thinks Kyler's size if he comes in at 5 "9 will make him go mid first right around the Redskins range.  My take though living in South Florida is the Dolphins are as desperate as the Redskins for a buzz so doubt they'd pass him by.

 

B.  He's not sold on Drew Lock.  Says way too inconsistent.  He can make some unbelievable throws and then all of a sudden play lousy.  He said some of the personnel guys he was sitting next to at the senior bowl weren't sold on Lock.

 

C.  His favorite QB on the 2nd day is Stidham. Thinks he goes in the third.  Said he looked good at the senior bowl and last year fell off in large part because Auborn just stunk it up  last year -- bad supporting cast, questionable coaching.  JP Finlay kicked in about how impressed he was about Stidham as a person when he interviewed him

 

D.  He likes Jonah Williams as a possibility to the Redskins at 15.  He doesn't think he would be a good LT but thinks he well suited to be a really good guard. 

 

https://www.si.com/nfl/2019/02/18/brian-flores-dolphins-zac-taylor-bengals-super-bowl-coaches-kyler-murray-scouts-kaepernick-reid?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=themmqb

AFC Exec 1: “This kid is way better than Lamar Jackson—better arm, more accurate, better anticipation, better processor, better athlete. I think he’s better across the board than Lamar, Lamar’s just bigger. But that’s not irrelevant. … If I told you he was 6' 3", you’d be all in, but he’s not. He’s shorter than Russell Wilson, and Russell is a lot stockier. … He’s a really good player. He does all the quarterback stuff really well. He’s a great athlete. My hang up is his size.”

AFC College Scouting Director: “He’s a hard one. He’s really good, he throws the ball well, there are no throws that he can’t make on any level. And I don’t think him being small is that big a problem, but when you’re small and you run like he can, I’m not sure how you wouldn’t be a little concerned. … You have to build it around him, but he’s pretty good. … And you gotta be real with yourself too, if you want to take him. You may have a second-round grade on him—I think a lot of people do—but if you think you’re getting him in the second round, you’re probably not.”

NFL DRAFT BIG BOARD: The Pre-Combine Top 50

AFC Exec 2: “At first glance, the passing skills are there. He’s good. So it’s just the size and can you tailor the offense to him. … The weight is big, because with his body type, you’re not sure he can get a lot bigger. Russell, Baker [Mayfield], those guys have a thickness to them, they’re broad-shouldered. That’s not this guy’s body type. Even as lines have changed, he’s still beneath the norm. And until we get him on a scale and measure him, that’s going to be the perception. … He also had a really good offensive line, great system, so we didn’t see him getting hit as much. How’s he going to throw from the pocket at our level at his height?”

It all adds up to maybe the most anticipated weigh-in in combine history. That one, if you wan to mark your calendars, is set for Thursday, Feb. 28.

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I read an article about the Dolphins officially committing to th multi year rebuild. Struck me that they’d load in talent this year as best they can and tank 2019 for a top 2020 pick. I could see them going that route than go Murray at 13 If they truly feel they’re a ways away. Otherwise hard to see Murray falling past 13

[dyst]

Lock’s arm is incredible the amount of zip he gets with little effot.

[PartyPosse]

4 hours ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

 

 

That just tells me that when takes off he takes off. That’s more worrisome in that once he’s out of the pocket he’s running 90% of the time. Defenders close in much faster in nfl

[Skinsinparadise]

2 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I read an article about the Dolphins officially committing to th multi year rebuild. Struck me that they’d load in talent this year as best they can and tank 2019 for a top 2020 pick. I could see them going that route than go Murray at 13 If they truly feel they’re a ways away. Otherwise hard to see Murray falling past 13

 

I've posted some of those articles about Miami tanking for Tua weeks back. 

 

But I feel the same way about them and their ownership as I do about the Redskins on one front.  Both teams are in similar boats with fans from what I observed.  I talk to as many Dolphins fans as Redskins fans - living in South Florida. 

 

I can't see them having Murray drop in their lap and just let that opportunity pass them by.  Same way I don't see the Redskins letting that opportunity pass them by.  Neither team I think would trade up for him though.  But if a golden goose just drops in their lap to bring needed excitement for a fan base that is tired of the boring version of mediocrity -- I'd think they'd take it in a heartbeat.    Just about no one cares to talk about the Dolphins nationally -- ditto the Redskins.  Murray would change that for either team in a heartbeat.

 

Judging by reporters who cover the team the Dolphins and Redskins though have some of the same problems -- yet they have reached a different conclusion about how to deal with it.

 

A.  Redskins seem to feel they are close and remain in win now mode.  They think they've just been bedeviled by bad luck.  Heard two beat guys double down on that point today. 

 

B. Dolphins who operated like the Redskins do for years have finally perhaps seen the light and will take a step back to take two step forward down the road.  And the owner is supposedly in love with Tua.

 

But I don't think either team would pass on an instant fix if it fell in their lap.  As for them trading up for an instant fix -- I am gathering neither team would.  If the Dolphins had to trade up it seems like they'd rather do so next year.

 

That is if some of the beat writers who cover these teams are correct.   Though Bruce and Jay both have said they think this team is close so I have some confidence that the beat guys are correct about the Redskins mindset.

[Slypted]

I feel like the redskins really need a deep threat, burner type like Marquise Brown to stretch defenses out to be more efficient at running the ball. Lisfranc injury on a speedster is scary, but maybe there is a lesser known guy in the draft with speed that could potentially fill that role. Parris Campbell has that elite speed, but I've never seen him go deep. His routes always seemed to be short screens or crosses. Idk I feel like that could help us get by with subpar QB play this year and focus on running and improve play action.

[Skinsinparadise]

Watched 3 Stidham games from 2018.  Between that and watching highlights, I think I have somewhat of a picture of the dude.

 

Pluses: 

Great guy-leader

Strong arm -- maybe a hair less than Lock but its close to his range

Can make throws all around the field and can put touch on them too -- including throwing a nice fade

You give him time he can pick you apart

Can sell play action and fakes in the backfield well

 

Negatives

Looks like a hot mess often when there is trash at his feet -- plays skittish under pressure and makes mistakes

Seems to overestimate his athleticism -- he takes off a lot for a dude who doesn't look that fast but he has the guts to use his legs and maybe sometimes to a fault

Pocket presence is shaky

When he's bad he's very bad  

When he rolls out his accuracy can be hit and miss on the move

 

Watching the bad Stidham reminds me some of early Kirk (2013-2014) until he settled down some -- skittish and frantic in the pocket when pressure came and mistakes happened because of it.  I mentioned Kirk because for his ups and downs, he improved over time on that front.  So perhaps so can Stidham improve.

 

His receivers stank for the most part.  His arm is really fun to watch, he has a good one,  I show a few plays below where his receivers dropped some really nice long throws.  I show one where he couldn't really step into the throw but still launched it well.  Then the last clip gives some window about what I don't like about the dude under pressure.  Maybe that wasn't the best clip because the pressure there comes at him fast but just in general he rarely dodges pressure well and in turn makes a play when there is heat or at least didn't so in the games I watched. 

 

They say you can't teach accuracy or create arm strength for someone -- so Stidham checks that box.  He looks accurate when you give him time and he has a gun.  the question is can you teach pocket presence?  If you can, Stidham intrigues me some.    IMO you want some good protection for him early in his career.  One of my fears about him is could he become like Patrick Ramsey, David Carr and some QBs who got flustered early in their careers from being sacked way too much and they played skittish.  Stidham to me looks like he could be a guy like that if he's not protected early.  But he certainly has some serious tools and a major league NFL arm.

 

 

[bowhunter]

6 hours ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I read an article about the Dolphins officially committing to th multi year rebuild. Struck me that they’d load in talent this year as best they can and tank 2019 for a top 2020 pick. I could see them going that route than go Murray at 13 If they truly feel they’re a ways away. Otherwise hard to see Murray falling past 13

Hmmm. If Murray makes it to the Dolphins at 13 and are hesitant for a second, I could see Washington offering a 4th to move up those 2 spots. Just to prevent the #14 Falcons from trading out of that spot. It would give Miami yet a little more way to accumulate  ammo to use or turn into 2020 power as well.

[nonniey]

17 hours ago, Koala said:

 

Why have the Redskins stopped talking about D. Haskins?  Hes much more of prototype NGL QB.  

 

I swear B. Allen is dumb as all hell.  Even if he doesn't think we should pay the price for Haskins, he should realize that the NY Giants --our division NFl --are absolutely in LOVE with Haskins and talking about trading up to get him if necessary.  We should at least pretend to be interested in trading for Haskins, if for no other reason than to screw NY by driving up the price to get him.

Well I hope you hit the nail on the head when you said the Skins probably don't think he is worth trading up for. They probably want the Giants to get him  as a top 10 pick would be a reach for him or any QB in this draft. I don't think the Redskins are going for QB this year unless it is in the mid rounds. It's a weak QB class and they need to remember that.

[Poindexter]

8 hours ago, Slypted said:

I feel like the redskins really need a deep threat, burner type like Marquise Brown to stretch defenses out to be more efficient at running the ball. Lisfranc injury on a speedster is scary, but maybe there is a lesser known guy in the draft with speed that could potentially fill that role. Parris Campbell has that elite speed, but I've never seen him go deep. His routes always seemed to be short screens or crosses. Idk I feel like that could help us get by with subpar QB play this year and focus on running and improve play action.

DK Metcalf is going to be the pick if he is there at #15.