Is this the most talented yet misused defensive front we've had in years?

[RemoveSnyder]

There is no such thing as defense anymore. There's only mitigation. 

 

And what's more, it's all relative. 

 

Were this defense to play the Chiefs, 40 burger. Same with the Patriots. And the Rams. And since we have tangible evidence of its fact, so too the Saints. 

 

Probably could name one or two more, given the right day and right circumstances. 

 

So... it's all relative. 

 

Better than last year? Yes. 

But, noteworthy for 2018? Nah

The single reason the team would be a contender? Nope. 

[Anselmheifer]

5 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

There is no such thing as defense anymore. There's only mitigation. 

 

And what's more, it's all relative. 

 

Were this defense to play the Chiefs, 40 burger. Same with the Patriots. And the Rams. And since we have tangible evidence of its fact, so too the Saints. 

 

Probably could name one or two more, given the right day and right circumstances. 

 

So... it's all relative. 

 

Better than last year? Yes. 

But, noteworthy for 2018? Nah

The single reason the team would be a contender? Nope. 

 

I don’t know if this is true. An elite pass rush can win deep into the playoffs, especially if backed by great secondary play. We are a dominant speed rusher away from having that defense. 

 

I dont think we have thw QB to trade all of those pics, and to commit the cap space, but damn. Picturing Khalil Mack on this defense makes me tingly. 

 

Also, Preston’s Smith has played himself out of a big contract and maybe out of Washington given the money he will likely demand. Given that we mostly play out of a 4-2, is there any reason to think our run defense and pass defense wouldn’t be improved if we played Ioannidis at RDE, next to Payne and Allen and across from Kerrigan? That would get our best personnel on the field and we would still have McGee and Settle and Smith and Anderson as depth. 

[RemoveSnyder]

1 minute ago, Anselmheifer said:

especially if backed by great secondary play.

 

Washington doesn't have a great secondary. Mahomes and Reid would **** slap this secondary. 

[Warhead36]

8 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

 

Washington doesn't have a great secondary. Mahomes and Reid would **** slap this secondary. 

Mahomes is lighting up everyone. What's your point?

 

 

[Anselmheifer]

I think his point is that we shouldn’t be too self congratulatory. We are strong in  personnel in a way that won’t lead to prolonged success. 

 

In in other words, better to be very good at QB than the DL. 

 

Also, I don’t think we are far from a great secondary. We are one elite CB away.

 

 

[Going Commando]

Football is a game of blocking and tackling.  The teams that block and tackle the best win most of the time.  This is true for every level of the sport.  If you make a team that is full of guys who stick their blocks and make defenders miss tackles, they're probably going to win a lot.  If you make a team full of guys who beat blocks and stick their tackles, they're going to win a lot too.

 

Controlling the ball and the line of scrimmage will always work.  The problem is it's a lot harder to keep a dominant unit together when it's time to pay people than it is to pay one single quarterback.  But one way isn't really better than the other.  Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are two of the five best passing QBs of all time.  Together, they have the same number of Superbowl rings as Eli ****ing Manning.  His offensive and defensive lines beat the team with the best quarterback in NFL history twice.  Almost all of the Eagles's best players are offensive and defensive linemen and they just beat the team with the best QB in NFL history in the Superbowl with a ****ing back up QB.  Being able to control the LoS the best is the surest path to a championship.

[bird_1972]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

I think his point is that we shouldn’t be too self congratulatory. We are strong in  personnel in a way that won’t lead to prolonged success. 

 

In in other words, better to be very good at QB than the DL. 

 

Also, I don’t think we are far from a great secondary. We are one elite CB away.

 

I think we need a stronger pass rush in order to improve the secondary. QBs are getting way too much time back there.

[ColonialWBSkinsFan]

6 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Football is a game of blocking and tackling.  The teams that block and tackle the best win most of the time.  This is true for every level of the sport.  If you make a team that is full of guys who stick their blocks and make defenders miss tackles, they're probably going to win a lot.  If you make a team full of guys who beat blocks and stick their tackles, they're going to win a lot too.

 

Controlling the ball and the line of scrimmage will always work.  The problem is it's a lot harder to keep a dominant unit together when it's time to pay people than it is to pay one single quarterback.  But one way isn't really better than the other.  Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are two of the five best passing QBs of all time.  Together, they have the same number of Superbowl rings as Eli ****ing Manning.  His offensive and defensive lines beat the team with the best quarterback in NFL history twice.  Almost all of the Eagles's best players are offensive and defensive linemen and they just beat the team with the best QB in NFL history in the Superbowl with a ****ing back up QB.  Being able to control the LoS the best is the surest path to a championship.

 

 

This is one of the most intelligent posts I've ever seen on this board.... Thank you for making such an excellent point.

[bird_1972]

34 minutes ago, stevemcqueen1 said:

Football is a game of blocking and tackling.  The teams that block and tackle the best win most of the time.  This is true for every level of the sport.  If you make a team that is full of guys who stick their blocks and make defenders miss tackles, they're probably going to win a lot.  If you make a team full of guys who beat blocks and stick their tackles, they're going to win a lot too.

 

Controlling the ball and the line of scrimmage will always work.  The problem is it's a lot harder to keep a dominant unit together when it's time to pay people than it is to pay one single quarterback.  But one way isn't really better than the other.  Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers are two of the five best passing QBs of all time.  Together, they have the same number of Superbowl rings as Eli ****ing Manning.  His offensive and defensive lines beat the team with the best quarterback in NFL history twice.  Almost all of the Eagles's best players are offensive and defensive linemen and they just beat the team with the best QB in NFL history in the Superbowl with a ****ing back up QB.  Being able to control the LoS the best is the surest path to a championship.

 

AMEN!!!! 

 

This is why we need to draft OL high in the draft next year!!!

[Anselmheifer]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions

 

Nine of the last 15 years were Won by an elite QB and that excludes QB’s much better than we have now, like Russel Wilson and Joe Flacco and also doesn’t include the aged version of Peyton Manning. 

 

The only teams with multiple super bowl rings had an elite QB, except the Giants, with Eli, who still used to be much better than the QB we have now. 

 

In any case, I’m happy about the DL. I’d like to see them find more time for Ioannidis and I’d like to see a speed rusher, a FS, another ILB, and a top flight CB. 

 

This D is one offseason of heavy investment away from truly dominant, but I don’t see us going in that direction.

 

Also, it looks like Patrick Peterson wants to be traded. 

[XxSpearheadxX]

I HATE being this guy but Colt plus our old borderline probowl 2nd year slot CB plus a guy who likes to play football speed rusher. What's his name? I think he used to play for the Raiders. 

 

#armchair4lyfe

[Going Commando]

1 hour ago, bird_1972 said:

AMEN!!!! 

 

This is why we need to draft OL high in the draft next year!!! 

 

Spending a high draft pick on a position doesn't mean you're getting a great player.  It'd be nice to get another great offensive lineman but you have to go BPA at the end of the day.

[Anselmheifer]

Any word on how Vit Vea looks? If we added another DL, I’d love a massive, move the LOS in short yardage type guy, or a quick twitch pass rusher. 

 

What do you guys see as projections for sack numbers for Payne, Allen, and Ioannidis, for the year?

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, Anselmheifer said:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Super_Bowl_champions

 

Nine of the last 15 years were Won by an elite QB and that excludes QB’s much better than we have now, like Russel Wilson and Joe Flacco and also doesn’t include the aged version of Peyton Manning. 

 

The only teams with multiple super bowl rings had an elite QB, except the Giants, with Eli, who still used to be much better than the QB we have now. 

 

In any case, I’m happy about the DL. I’d like to see them find more time for Ioannidis and I’d like to see a speed rusher, a FS, another ILB, and a top flight CB. 

 

This D is one offseason of heavy investment away from truly dominant, but I don’t see us going in that direction.

 

Also, it looks like Patrick Peterson wants to be traded. 

 

Hmm.. One heavy investment on defense in the off season? Not sure we have been watching the same games - they had one bad game, NO. Outside they have been dominating. Even against the Colts the D played well enough to win, easily. The offense was garbage. 

 

Here are some quick numbers: 5th in total yds - 7th in pts/gm - 3rd in rushing yds/gm - 14th in passing yds - mostly due to people just not being able to run. That all includes the NO debacle. If you take that one out, the results are:  pts/gm - 2nd with 15.6 - total yds 0 total yds 2nd with 298.6 yds/gm. 

 

But again even leaving the NO game in, they care doing very well. Yes, they could probably use another edge rusher and CB. But major investment? Not at all. 

 

Need to use those resources on offense. Need WRs, TE, and Oline. And they really should be looking a QB, if not this draft on the next. And I say that no matter what Alex does. I believe he will improve. But even if he does they need to start working on the QB of the long term future. 

[mistertim]

20 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Any word on how Vit Vea looks? If we added another DL, I’d love a massive, move the LOS in short yardage type guy, or a quick twitch pass rusher. 

 

What do you guys see as projections for sack numbers for Payne, Allen, and Ioannidis, for the year?

 

Vita Vea has been a complete non-factor. He has 1 tackle. I had a bad feeling about that guy and I was SO HAPPY when he got taken ahead of us.

[goskins10]

27 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

Any word on how Vit Vea looks? If we added another DL, I’d love a massive, move the LOS in short yardage type guy, or a quick twitch pass rusher. 

 

What do you guys see as projections for sack numbers for Payne, Allen, and Ioannidis, for the year?

 

We have that guy - his name is Tim Settle. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

5 hours ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

There is no such thing as defense anymore. There's only mitigation. 

 

And what's more, it's all relative. 

 

Were this defense to play the Chiefs, 40 burger. Same with the Patriots. And the Rams. And since we have tangible evidence of its fact, so too the Saints. 

 

Probably could name one or two more, given the right day and right circumstances. 

 

So... it's all relative. 

 

Better than last year? Yes. 

But, noteworthy for 2018? Nah

The single reason the team would be a contender? Nope. 

I agree in the sense that it doesn’t really matter how good your defense is against the offensive powerhouses.  They are always going to get theirs. However being good enough to stop 80% of the league could win you a lot of games.  This defense has the look of that however I think it’s a pass rusher short.

[Anselmheifer]

27 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

We have that guy - his name is Tim Settle. 

 

That wasn’t Settle’s game in college and it isn’t his game now. He’s more of a gap shooting 3 technique in a NT’s body.

 

Interesting that Vit Vea has done so little. What a waste.

 

Also, I don’t think this defense has been dominating. Very good? Yes. But, not dominating. And, by dominating, I mean creating a high volume of turnovers and sacks and striking fear into opposing teams. 

 

We arent nearly the defense that Denver or Seattle were at their peaks. I don’t mean that as an insult. It’s really a complement to think that we aren’t necessarily that far from reaching that level, and given that we have an older, ball protecting QB, I would try to patch up the OL, add a dynamic receiver and invest to push the defense to that elite level. 

[goskins10]

17 minutes ago, Anselmheifer said:

 

That wasn’t Settle’s game in college and it isn’t his game now. He’s more of a gap shooting 3 technique in a NT’s body.

 

Interesting that Vit Vea has done so little. What a waste.

 

Also, I don’t think this defense has been dominating. Very good? Yes. But, not dominating. And, by dominating, I mean creating a high volume of turnovers and sacks and striking fear into opposing teams. 

 

We arent nearly the defense that Denver or Seattle were at their peaks. I don’t mean that as an insult. It’s really a complement to think that we aren’t necessarily that far from reaching that level, and given that we have an older, ball protecting QB, I would try to patch up the OL, add a dynamic receiver and invest to push the defense to that elite level. 

 

Settle played all over the line. He was more effective from he 3 because they did not double team him. But he is more than capable of playing NT and did so at V Tech. 

 

And it's just after game 6 with a lot of new players that are getting stronger and more comfortable with each game. Awful early for determining the ceiling. But we know what we have on offense. Forget Alex - the Oline needs a LG, we have an aging TE and another one that spends a lot of time injured - not to mention it appears he lost a step. And WR is clearly a weakness. I would much rather they spend more resources to get better on Off so the D does not have to be totally elite to win games. 

 

Balance is still the best way to win. 

[skinfan2k]

There might be no defense in football but defensive lines can still win your super bowls.  

[Warhead36]

I'm watching the Giants/Falcons right now, since we play them the next two weeks. Both QBs are complete statues with bad OLs. Our big boys up front should feast. I think you'll see our sack #s shoot up and normalize after these two games. Its kinda like in baseball when a normally good hitter is only hitting .200 but then plays in Coors Field and goes like 9 for 16 with 5 homers over a series to revitalize his stats.

[Anselmheifer]

35 minutes ago, goskins10 said:

 

Settle played all over the line. He was more effective from he 3 because they did not double team him. But he is more than capable of playing NT and did so at V Tech. 

 

And it's just after game 6 with a lot of new players that are getting stronger and more comfortable with each game. Awful early for determining the ceiling. But we know what we have on offense. Forget Alex - the Oline needs a LG, we have an aging TE and another one that spends a lot of time injured - not to mention it appears he lost a step. And WR is clearly a weakness. I would much rather they spend more resources to get better on Off so the D does not have to be totally elite to win games. 

 

Balance is still the best way to win. 

 

I agree with a lot of this. It’s way too early to project ceiling. Settle had a lot of splash plays in college, but was slow AND weak and awkward at the combine. I think a professional strength and conditioning program could make him a beast. That also is a projection. 

 

In terms of balance, we have a ton invested in OL. I think we need a LG and I don’t feel secure about tackle. We definitely need another WR. I think we could potentially fill these two needs in FA. 

 

But,  I’d love to see us go BPA in the draft and I admit that I would love it if some of those players would up being defenders. Even if we don’t win games, it’s fun to watch a dominant offense or defense. Our offense won’t be dominant with Alex Smith at the helm. With the right pieces around him, I think they could be good though. He could really use a YAC receiver like Tyreke Hill to open the game up for him some. Those guys aren’t easy to find.

[Koolblue13]

I wanted OJ Howard pretty badly a couple years ago, but Allen has been fantastic. It'll be interesting to see how Brantley and Settle develop. We clearly have an outstanding culture being built on that line. 

 

I'd still like a complete MLB that's just a bully. I was pissed the cowboys got Vander Esch. 

 

Anderson keeps getting better. I hope he gets more snaps against the giants, because the man knows how to set an edge.

 

We could have the exact draft next year again and I'd be happy.

[Going Commando]

11 hours ago, mistertim said:

 

Vita Vea has been a complete non-factor. He has 1 tackle. I had a bad feeling about that guy and I was SO HAPPY when he got taken ahead of us. 

 

He got hurt.  I wasn't a big Vea fan either.  Tremendous physical talent.  Soft and passive game.  I thought there was an enormous gap between him and Payne and couldn't believe people were putting Vea ahead or beside Payne pre-draft.  Professional scouting people.  The difference in their level of dominance on film was plain as day to me.  Vea spent long stretches of the game successfully single blocked by unimpressive Pac-12 linemen.  Payne was a wrecking ball who demanded constant doubles.

[RandyHolt]

Anyone that watched the Giants game last night knows we need to pressure Eli. Sure their play calling was suspect (trying to lose on purpose to get a top draft pick next year to draft a QB duh), but man Eli's throws were off anytime there was pressure.

 

It's no secret pressure makes QBs wilt, and I think a helmet on his chin early is a key to victory.  Of course head shots are illegal, as is leaning on a QB with full body weight, so I may need to rethink my favorite expression.  Let's gently nudge him early on and try to get him to check out.