Miami Herald: I’m done trying to understand Trump supporters. Why don’t they try to understand me?

[MisterPinstripe]

6 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Frankly, the followers of President Trump chiding people for not being kind is laughable.

Wait, so if I am reading this right I am now a follower of Trump? I did not and would never vote for that guy, but it seems like you are lumping me into that group because I dont agree with you on how to deal with people. If that's the case, you are just as bad as them just doing it from the other side of the aisle.

 

Are they ever polite? Do they ever not insult? 

I guess one of the areas we disagree is I think people no matter what side they are on shouldnt be assholes. But apparently thinking that we should be kind, and that will have a greater impact on people, somehow means I am a Trump follower.... Wouldnt that be the opposite?

 

Talk about people can dish it, but not take it. The thing that angers the supporters of the GOP and Donald Trump is that they are guilty of everything they ever pretended the Democrats were in their worst tin foil conspiracy-laden ravings.

Besides, calling them exactly what they are is not insulting them. It's what they praised Donald Trump for doing. It's giving them what they say they want.

if you want this fighting and hatred between people to keep going on then we just keep treating people as the enemy as opposed to talking with them and showing kindness to change hearts. There are a lot of people out there that did awful things, like KKK members, who had their hearts and attitudes changed by people being kind and building a relationship with them. If the people that basically saved them had your mindset those people would still be in the KKK or whatever group they were a part of.

 

[Burgold]

3 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

 

Never said your were a follower of Trump. I am addressing the followers of Trump. I am addressing that portion of the population that is proudly MAGA, proudly anti-PC and yet gets the feelings hurt if you turn the mirror around to show them their own reflection.

 

You've been around long enough and I've posted often enough for you to see that I am a respectful poster and I don't personally insult. However, I do believe in truth. I don't believe that coddling people and telling that their embrace of evil is okay because they're good people at heart is the way to go. I lost way too much of my family tree that way.

 

Being silent and smiling and coddling evil doesn't make evil reconsider and have a change of heart. It gives them leeway to grow even more evil. Look at reality. Look at the last two years. Has Congress' unwillingness to stand up to Trump and check him on anything made Trump change his behavior to become a more thoughtful, more reasonable President or has he become a worse bully?

Edited January 3, 2019 by Burgold

[MisterPinstripe]

18 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Never said your were a follower of Trump. I am addressing the followers of Trump. I am addressing that portion of the population that is proudly MAGA, proudly anti-PC and yet gets the feelings hurt if you turn the mirror around to show them their own reflection.

Im the only one in here specifically saying that, so it seemed pretty directed.

 

Whether they realize it or not it seems like most people just want to use hate and anger to make this country better, be it Republican or Democrat, and I just see us circling the drain because of it. Lets say out of 60 million people that just hate everything, 1 million could be "saved" by talking with them with kindness, is that worth it or not?

 

 

18 minutes ago, Burgold said:

You've been around long enough and I've posted often enough for you to see that I am a respectful poster and I don't personally insult. However, I do believe in truth. I don't believe that coddling people and telling that their embrace of evil is okay because they're good people at heart is the way to go. I lost way too much of my family tree that way.

Being silent and smiling and coddling evil doesn't make evil reconsider and have a change of heart. It gives them leeway to grow even more evil. Look at reality. Look at the last two years. Has Congress' unwillingness to stand up to Trump and check him on anything made Trump change his behavior to become a more thoughtful, more reasonable President or has he become a worse bully?

 

Yes, which is why I was so surprised.  I dont believe in coddling either or not confronting evil, I just think its perfectly possible to do that without being hateful and angry back. I dont think kindness means telling them their embrace of evil is okay, I think its the complete opposite. Maybe thats where the disconnect is, people think kindness means you let stuff go, you dont confront, etc. I think its a way of treating and acting with people where even though you are confronting and condemning something people can see something else there as well.

Edited January 3, 2019 by MisterPinstripe

[LD0506]

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

 

 

 

Just don't call it the final solution.  

 

Anything even remotely approaching that would be the death of America itself, we could not have our own ethnic cleansing and still be us.

 

We have to refuse to let them dictate the narrative, refuse to allow them to poison the well of public discourse, utterly reject their definitions of who we are, and who the others around us are. 

 

I do agree w/ Mister Pinstripe insofar as light beats dark, good beats evil, but good has to be open and inclusive and fulfilling enough that people choose it, willingly. Luring people out of the pits of greed and fear isn't my job, not sliding into it is.

[Burgold]

22 minutes ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Im the only one in here specifically saying that, so it seemed pretty directed.

 

Whether they realize it or not it seems like most people just want to use hate and anger to make this country better, be it Republican or Democrat, and I just see us circling the drain because of it. Lets say out of 60 million people that just hate everything, 1 million could be "saved" by talking with them with kindness, is that worth it or not?

 

I don't think it would be worth it. 

Let's say that it breaks down this way.

 

60 million Trump voters = 30 million die hard GOPers who just vote party line no matter what+ 15 million Maga Trumpers + 10 million disaffected independents + 5 million folks who got the wool pulled over their eyes + 3 million protest votes who voted for him thinking he'd never win + 2 million Russian bots.

 

If that's the case, let's say that being being super nice, respectful, and polite you get one million of the fifteen million to swing sides. However, what does the soft shoe do to the rest of that group? Do they flip to the MAGA side? What about new recruits who see this politeness as spineless weak subservience? Does the 14 million MAGA think they've cowed the opposition and get even more hostile and violent? Remember, hate crimes are way up since Trump took office. Enrollment in Hate Groups is way up too.

 

So, to save one million souls, you risk creating something far worse. Put simply. You don't get rid of ****roaches by putting a lump of ice cream on the floor that's designated for them in one corner and expect them to respect the rest of the house  or stop multiplying.

[Dan T.]

There is a certain legitimacy to Michelle Obama's stance that "When they go low, we go high."  For one's personal dignity, it makes sense.  And as the first African-American family to reside in the White House, it was almost an imperative that they do so, for posterity's sake.

 

But when you're dealing with Donald Trump and his ilk, a better way might be "When they go low, kick them in the balls."  Because that seems to be the only response they understand.

[nonniey]

4 hours ago, MisterPinstripe said:

Im the only one in here specifically saying that, so it seemed pretty directed.

 

Whether they realize it or not it seems like most people just want to use hate and anger to make this country better, be it Republican or Democrat, and I just see us circling the drain because of it. Lets say out of 60 million people that just hate everything, 1 million could be "saved" by talking with them with kindness, is that worth it or not?

 

 

 

Yes, which is why I was so surprised.  I dont believe in coddling either or not confronting evil, I just think its perfectly possible to do that without being hateful and angry back. I dont think kindness means telling them their embrace of evil is okay, I think its the complete opposite. Maybe thats where the disconnect is, people think kindness means you let stuff go, you dont confront, etc. I think its a way of treating and acting with people where even though you are confronting and condemning something people can see something else there as well.

You are tilting at windmills and in the eyes of many on here -  committing heresy.  Many  posters are consumed by their rage and ironically for the title all they have to do to understand a Trumpster Maga type is to look in a mirror.  

[Dan T.]

23 minutes ago, nonniey said:

 Many  posters are consumed by their rage and ironically for the title all they have to do to understand a Trumpster Maga type is to look in a mirror.  

 

Donald Trump is the greatest in bringing out the worst in me.

[nonniey]

1 hour ago, Dan T. said:

 

Donald Trump is the greatest in bringing out the worst in me.

Well at least you recognize it. That is a good thing.

[Dan T.]

1 hour ago, nonniey said:

Well at least you recognize it. That is a good thing.

 

I’m one of tens of millions. And he deserves the wrath.  He’s a despicable human being.

[Destino]

7 hours ago, Dan T. said:

There is a certain legitimacy to Michelle Obama's stance that "When they go low, we go high."  For one's personal dignity, it makes sense.  And as the first African-American family to reside in the White House, it was almost an imperative that they do so, for posterity's sake.

 

But when you're dealing with Donald Trump and his ilk, a better way might be "When they go low, kick them in the balls."  Because that seems to be the only response they understand.

I don't believe that playing Trump's game, by which I mean responding to his nonsense with anger and insults, is a winning strategy.  The best way to defeat Trump is to ignore his noise and simply demonstrate the leadership this country needs.  I don't mean just by displaying any sort of decency and competency either, nor is it about being nice to Trump supporters.  It's about not taking the bait.  Trump couldn't go toe to toe with congressional interns on policy, let alone career politicians... but he never has to because whenever he's in a tough spot he just makes some weird faces and screeches out some dumb **** and suddenly everyone is talking about that. 

 

Imagine sitting at the table with your family and arguing anything at all.  Now imagine that every time you feel like you are losing the argument dump the plate of food on your own head and then insult someone at the table.  How many people after you do that are still focused on the previous argument?  None.  That's how Trump plays politics.  Insults at that point do not counter this strategy, they just feed right into it. 

 

Trump needs to be defeated by contrast.  By brilliance.  The sort that attracts attention in a different more substantive way and sells the public on a vision of tomorrow they want to live in.  One that benefits them but also moves us forward as a people.  Democrats need to put forward someone that's inspiring enough to largely ignore Trump and dazzle the dinner guests in such a way that when Trump dumps a bowl of soup on his head, no one turns to look at him.  They just hit him with the political equivalent of "that's nice dear" and maybe toss him a napkin. 

 

Then again, he may end up facing impeachment at some point.  That would be nice.

[Popeman38]

18 hours ago, Burgold said:

60 million Trump voters = 30 million die hard GOPers who just vote party line no matter what+ 15 million Maga Trumpers + 10 million disaffected independents + 5 million folks who got the wool pulled over their eyes + 3 million protest votes who voted for him thinking he'd never win + 2 million Russian bots.

Are you really suggesting that 2 million votes were cast by Russian bots? 2 million illegitimate votes were cast? 

 

And your math is 60 million = 65 million...

[nonniey]

11 hours ago, Dan T. said:

 

I’m one of tens of millions. .........

I'd say well over a 100 million if you count the Maga Trumpsters when it comes to bringing out the worst in people. (I hope it is not over 200).

Edited January 4, 2019 by nonniey

[PleaseBlitz]

15 hours ago, Dan T. said:

There is a certain legitimacy to Michelle Obama's stance that "When they go low, we go high."  For one's personal dignity, it makes sense.  And as the first African-American family to reside in the White House, it was almost an imperative that they do so, for posterity's sake.

 

But when you're dealing with Donald Trump and his ilk, a better way might be "When they go low, kick them in the balls."  Because that seems to be the only response they understand.

 

More and more I don't see the point in responding to them at all.  When they go low, I just shake my head. 

 

Edit:  I posted this before reading @Destino's much better post. 

Edited January 4, 2019 by PleaseBlitz

[Dan T.]

8 hours ago, Destino said:

I don't believe that playing Trump's game, by which I mean responding to his nonsense with anger and insults, is a winning strategy.  The best way to defeat Trump is to ignore his noise and simply demonstrate the leadership this country needs.  I don't mean just by displaying any sort of decency and competency either, nor is it about being nice to Trump supporters.  It's about not taking the bait.  Trump couldn't go toe to toe with congressional interns on policy, let alone career politicians... but he never has to because whenever he's in a tough spot he just makes some weird faces and screeches out some dumb **** and suddenly everyone is talking about that. 

 

Imagine sitting at the table with your family and arguing anything at all.  Now imagine that every time you feel like you are losing the argument dump the plate of food on your own head and then insult someone at the table.  How many people after you do that are still focused on the previous argument?  None.  That's how Trump plays politics.  Insults at that point do not counter this strategy, they just feed right into it. 

 

Trump needs to be defeated by contrast.  By brilliance.  The sort that attracts attention in a different more substantive way and sells the public on a vision of tomorrow they want to live in.  One that benefits them but also moves us forward as a people.  Democrats need to put forward someone that's inspiring enough to largely ignore Trump and dazzle the dinner guests in such a way that when Trump dumps a bowl of soup on his head, no one turns to look at him.  They just hit him with the political equivalent of "that's nice dear" and maybe toss him a napkin. 

 

Then again, he may end up facing impeachment at some point.  That would be nice.

 

 

Ideally, for the 2020 election, you have a person who can both run circles around Trump on policy - which is pretty much anybody - and who can fire off a non-rehearsed, dismissive bon mot in response to whatever idiotic insult or nickname he spews out.  Nothing lengthy, just a quick 21st century version of Reagan's "There you go again" or Lloyd Benson's "You're no Jack Kennedy" and then pivot into the substance.   They also need to - in a matter-of-fact, non-confrontational way, call him out on his lies in real time.

[Sacks 'n' Stuff]

15 hours ago, nonniey said:

You are tilting at windmills and in the eyes of many on here -  committing heresy.  Many  posters are consumed by their rage and ironically for the title all they have to do to understand a Trumpster Maga type is to look in a mirror.  

Yeah except Trump really is the total piece of **** that they wanted to pretend Obama was.

[Chachie]

11 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

 

Ideally, for the 2020 election, you have a person who can both run circles around Trump on policy - which is pretty much anybody - and who can fire off a non-rehearsed, dismissive bon mot in response to whatever idiotic insult or nickname he spews out.  Nothing lengthy, just a quick 21st century version of Reagan's "There you go again" or Lloyd Benson's "You're no Jack Kennedy" and then pivot into the substance.   They also need to - in a matter-of-fact, non-confrontational way, call him out on his lies in real time.

 

 

Frustrating that Hilary did all this and in retrospect predicted everything we're seeing now, especially in regard to Putin. 😑

[Burgold]

1 hour ago, Popeman38 said:

Are you really suggesting that 2 million votes were cast by Russian bots? 2 million illegitimate votes were cast? 

 

And your math is 60 million = 65 million...

That’s my low estimate. Not sure if serious. 

[Llevron]

2 minutes ago, Burgold said:

That’s my low estimate. Not sure if serious. 

 

Someone is gonna ask you for proof and then ask whats the difference between you making this claim and Trump making his "5mil illegal votes for Hillary" claim. (ignoring the fact that you arnt the president so, unless you have some top secret info no one else does, your estimate is obviously and ESTIMATE, and your outreach it typically limited to this forum.....both things vastly different from the president of the united states and should not be compared) 

[PleaseBlitz]

28 minutes ago, Dan T. said:

 

 

Ideally, for the 2020 election, you have a person who can both run circles around Trump on policy - which is pretty much anybody - and who can fire off a non-rehearsed, dismissive bon mot in response to whatever idiotic insult or nickname he spews out.  Nothing lengthy, just a quick 21st century version of Reagan's "There you go again" or Lloyd Benson's "You're no Jack Kennedy" and then pivot into the substance.   They also need to - in a matter-of-fact, non-confrontational way, call him out on his lies in real time.

 

I'll just leave this right here.

 

 

[Popeman38]

50 minutes ago, Burgold said:

That’s my low estimate. Not sure if serious. 

Can you explain how Russian bots voted?

[Burgold]

23 minutes ago, Popeman38 said:

Can you explain how Russian bots voted?

There have been numerous studies demonstrating how fifth graders were able to successfully hack election computers. Don’t you think if the Kremlin was willing to invest dozens of billions into influencing the election in Trump’s favor that he would balk at a few hundred thousand to directly ensure he got what he wanted?

 

Not sure I believe this. Not sure I don’t. 

[Dan T.]

So I can see the argument for summoning our better angels in these unusual times we live in.

 

That said...

 

https://splinternews.com/how-to-win-challenge-donald-trump-to-a-physical-fight-1831487307

 

For the Democrats, winning the White House in 2020 will require bold moral leadership combined with savvy political strategy. But mostly, it will require challenging that soft **** to a fight, every day, and never shutting up about it.

 

Violence has no place in politics. We should select leaders by rationally evaluating their political platforms and judging their character and sincerity in order to determine who will be most effective at solving our very real problems and at navigating any crises that may arise. This is what we should do. What we have actually done, though, is to install perhaps the single biggest ****ing moron in America as president because our system is broken and he was good at telling racist lies. The long-term solution to this situation is to fix our broken system in order to solve the problems that have so disillusioned such a large part of our citizenry. The short term solution is to challenge this fat braggy Angel Soft mother****er to throw hands and watch him crumble like the crumb cake he eats every day, for breakfast.

 

This mother****er got to the White House by projecting an image of unrestrained strength comparable to history’s greatest dictators. “I alone can solve it,” and all that bull****. He is a racist, and oppressor, a classic bully—he selects targets that he thinks are weak and relentlessly attacks them as long as he believes he is insulated from all repercussions. He has risen to a position of insane power by stepping on the backs of every marginalized group he could find. His appeal to his base is premised on the idea that he is a strongman.

 

Meanwhile this swollen old mother****er is sitting in a leather chair eating mom’s meatloaf every day like a homesick tween. This loud ass chud is out here hollering slurs about people who just walked a thousand miles through the desert in search of a better life. You think it’s so easy to walk here from Central America, mother****er? You can barely navigate a set of stairs.

 

Chocolate cake Duncan Hines frosting ass mother****er.

 

 

Etc.

 

https://splinternews.com/how-to-win-challenge-donald-trump-to-a-physical-fight-1831487307

[PleaseBlitz]

The original was better.  https://theconcourse.deadspin.com/donald-trump-is-a-frightened-coward-and-i-bet-100-000-1784774156

[Dan T.]

2 hours ago, PleaseBlitz said:

 

I'll just leave this right here.

[Cruz-O'Rouke vid.

 

 

 

I could never be a politician. 

My response - instead of "True to Form" - would have been "Smarmy asshole."