Voice_of_Reason

Evaluating Jay Gruden in 2018

Recommended Posts

I actually like Jay in General. I think he has started to come into his own (While we are killing him on the play calling, lots not forget that Alex smith simply missed wide open guys).

HOWEVER -It seems EVERY GAME Jay Gruden makes a stupid, bone head, not paying attention, doesnt understand football kinda call.

Im talking about things like not going for 2 last year against San Diego (When, despite getting crushed, a 4th qtr TD with 3 mins left and all 3 timeouts would have gotten us within 2 scores).

Last night - Please explain this.  Down 20-6, with about 2:45 left in half, we are punting from our 30 or so on 4th and 7.  We punt it only like 35 yards but there is a running into the kicker call.

Jay is screaming it should be roughing, Refs dont change it.  Then he DECLINES the penalty.  

Why?

Like what logic is there in declining it. Take the penalty and get a better kick then 35 yards, or at least take some time off the clock, or whatever. But why decline it?

Next play -DB throws 64 yards and breaks the record.

 

I get that the play had little to do with the outcome -but thats is what im judging him on.  Hes got lots of people around him, figuring out a game plan with a weeks notice is one thing, coming up with a goal line play with game on the line is something you probably think of none stop.

Making the little calls during the game in situations you hadn't thought of (And making mid game adjustments) is what makes a good coach.

 

He has failed at this.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I want Gruden gone before we draft our next franchise QB. Feel bad for saying this, but I don't want him contaminating our rookies next season.

 

In fact, I want all the Tampa goons gone, even Doug if it comes down to it.

 

Snyder -- well, we can't do anything about that.

Edited by BurgundyBooger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From what I've seen, no one in the media is hard on Jay.  It's the same dumb**** questions over and over.

 

Things that should be asked:

 

- You take ownership of the team not performing well tonight.  Where did preparation fall short?  

 

- How do you approach halftime and making adjustments?

 

- What is it about Monday Night Games that leave this team looking flat, year in, year out?

 

- Two weeks (I know, I know, mandatory days off for the players...but still, two weeks to rest and plan) to prepare, how can this be the result?

 

- Why haven't you featured Jordan Reed and are there plans to target him?

 

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, Burgold said:

Heck no. I don't want to give Gruden another three years which is what a new QB would require. He's had five years and he can't even get the basics consistently right. I think, at this point, he is what his record screams.

 

He's an okay, slightly below average, head coach.

 

He needs to get this right and stop coasting on excuses. Maximize his talent each week and let's see a team that achieves or even overachieves for once instead of Jekyll and Hyding away seasons, losing laughers, or falling short to bad teams like the Colts or the Giants. When the lights shine brightest, Gruden's teams have packed up and slunk away.

Maximize talent?  Griffin was a bust and Alex is starting to look the same.  Coaches look best or worst based on their QB play.  Like i mentioned, he did take a 4th rounder and made him into a franchise QB, he made Andy Dalton a solid QB as well.  You give him a QB to work with, that's different then sock puppets.

 

What talent is he supposed to maximize at oline or wr right now?  I said it was a playoff roster if guys stayed healthy, and just like clockwork they don't. Why is anyone shocked by the results?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it says a lot about a coach when you have the talent to win some games very convincingly, but then you can never string together 2 decent performances in a row.  Our record after winning a game is really very sad, and its why we rarely go on any kind of win streak.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, righteousbowi said:

I like your thinking. But some reason I feel it's going to be Josh McDaniels.

No way he comes here. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have had Jay's back since day one. He has his positives. And he has taken this team from total **** to at least mediocre. But last night was inexcusable. This was the perfect opportunity to put to rest a lot of negative opinions. And they did not even show up. Yes, players play. But there was nothing done to prepare properly for NO. Are they they (NO) that good? Maybe. But the team yet again comes off a bye uninspired and listless. This is not an accident. 

 

I am now officially (not that it matters to anyone but me) ready for change outside some kind of miraculous finish. But I just do not see it happening, It will be one good one, one bad one. Just giving you hope only take your legs out from under you. 

 

13 hours ago, righteousbowi said:

I like your thinking. But some reason I feel it's going to be Josh McDaniels.

 

 

I do not want Josh Daniels. He has been a jerk to two teams now. He is staying in NE anyway. Need to look completely different. Let's get a real GM - not an empty suit - and let them bring in their own HC.  It's the one thing we have not done - isn't that interesting... NOT! 

Edited by goskins10
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, TMK9973 said:

I actually like Jay in General. I think he has started to come into his own (While we are killing him on the play calling, lots not forget that Alex smith simply missed wide open guys).

HOWEVER -It seems EVERY GAME Jay Gruden makes a stupid, bone head, not paying attention, doesnt understand football kinda call.

Im talking about things like not going for 2 last year against San Diego (When, despite getting crushed, a 4th qtr TD with 3 mins left and all 3 timeouts would have gotten us within 2 scores).

Last night - Please explain this.  Down 20-6, with about 2:45 left in half, we are punting from our 30 or so on 4th and 7.  We punt it only like 35 yards but there is a running into the kicker call.

Jay is screaming it should be roughing, Refs dont change it.  Then he DECLINES the penalty.  

Why?

Like what logic is there in declining it. Take the penalty and get a better kick then 35 yards, or at least take some time off the clock, or whatever. But why decline it?

Next play -DB throws 64 yards and breaks the record.

 

I get that the play had little to do with the outcome -but thats is what im judging him on.  Hes got lots of people around him, figuring out a game plan with a weeks notice is one thing, coming up with a goal line play with game on the line is something you probably think of none stop.

Making the little calls during the game in situations you hadn't thought of (And making mid game adjustments) is what makes a good coach.

 

He has failed at this.  

 

I could not agree more, he is constantly making bone headed decisions. Not sure if this is play calling or personnel packages but as mentioned earlier running Chris Thompson up the middle on first and goal?  I was laughing at that last night. 

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
26 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

Maximize talent?  Griffin was a bust and Alex is starting to look the same.  Coaches look best or worst based on their QB play.  Like i mentioned, he did take a 4th rounder and made him into a franchise QB, he made Andy Dalton a solid QB as well.  You give him a QB to work with, that's different then sock puppets.

 

What talent is he supposed to maximize at oline or wr right now?  I said it was a playoff roster if guys stayed healthy, and just like clockwork they don't. Why is anyone shocked by the results?

What talent should he maximize at oline? Really? How about Williams, Scherff, and Moses. Put Roullier back at center where he was looking good and place Ty either at tackle or guard and go to a power mauling oline strategy.

 

Talent at WR? You probably got me, but we've seen a lot of teams win without great wide receivers.

 

QB? Smith had a stinker, but otherwise has been okay.

 

We have far more than enough talent to compete. We have an above average oline, probably a good d line, a solid running game, and talented players across the roster.

 

Maybe he should ma

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Monk4thaHALL said:

We definitely need a "new Head Coach - casting call" Thread. 

 

The evaluation (of Gruden) is over. At least it should be. 

 

Yes, the Thread Title should now be called "Emasculating Jay Gruden in 2018".

Edited by hawgboy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, righteousbowi said:

I like your thinking. But some reason I feel it's going to be Josh McDaniels.

12 minutes ago, hawgboy said:

Yes, the Thread Title should now be called "Emasculating Jay Gruden in 2018".

 

I forget who the poster was, but back when the carousel was last spinning, just prior to Gruden being hired, a lot of folks took turns throwing out the most outlandish candidates that Snyder could bumble**** the selection with. 

 

Someone wrote Jerry Glanville, and I damn near got a hernia laughing so hard. 

 

Kiffin circus just feels so Snyder, so absurdist culture. 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Burgold said:

What talent should he maximize at oline? Really? How about Williams, Scherff, and Moses. Put Roullier back at center where he was looking good and place Ty either at tackle or guard and go to a power mauling oline strategy.

 

Talent at WR? You probably got me, but we've seen a lot of teams win without great wide receivers.

 

QB? Smith had a stinker, but otherwise has been okay.

 

We have far more than enough talent to compete. We have an above average oline, probably a good d line, a solid running game, and talented players across the roster.

 

Maybe he should ma

 

Dude, I've been said we should move Trent inside.  But you aren't making sense on how Jay should be held responsible for Alex play.  When someone plays that bad, it's hard to blame the coach.  We don't have a solid running game without AD, we got overmatched and there's nothing we could do about it, this is probably and L even if all the stars align, Saints are that good and it was in New Orleans.  They **** bed against Carolina, I might feel differently

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Dude, I've been said we should move Trent inside.  But you aren't making sense on how Jay should be held responsible for Alex play.  When someone plays that bad, it's hard to blame the coach.  We don't have a? solid running game without AD, we got overmatche?d and there's nothing we could do about it, this is probably and L even if all the stars align, Saints are that good and it was in New Orleans.  They **** bed against Carolina, I might feel differently

It was a total team collapse. It wasn't just Alex. The only unit that performed okay was the D line during running plays.

 

That's not about talent. That's about preparation and game planning. There is talent on this team. Yesterday, we played like a 1-15 trainwreck. We played far below our abilities.

 

Jay should be responsible for Alex's play. If nothing else, if the QB is that erratic, YANK HIM. Roll him out once or twice. Throw a damn screen. Change something up. The Redskins are a better team than they showed yesterday. The pass defense that held Aaron Rodgers mostly in check was not visible at all against Drew Brees. Granted, Rodgers was injured, but Drew Brees is not a thousand times better than Aaron Rodgers.

 

The players failed, but the coaches also failed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Burgold said:

It was a total team collapse. It wasn't just Alex. The only unit that performed okay was the D line during running plays.

 

That's not about talent. That's about preparation and game planning. There is talent on this team. Yesterday, we played like a 1-15 trainwreck. We played far below our abilities.

 

Jay should be responsible for Alex's play. If nothing else, if the QB is that erratic, YANK HIM. Roll him out once or twice. Throw a damn screen. Change something up. The Redskins are a better team than they showed yesterday. The pass defense that held Aaron Rodgers mostly in check was not visible at all against Drew Brees. Granted, Rodgers was injured, but Drew Brees is not a thousand times better than Aaron Rodgers.

 

The players failed, but the coaches also failed. 

 

You're giving too much credit to this roster.  You really think yanking Alex woulda made a difference with both our starting wrs and rb out?  Pass defense surprised me, ill give you that, but you can't expect anything to work when your QB plays that bad.  If the extent of Jays ability to do anything is to bench him that isn't fixing anything.  And we did try screen passes, Saints were all over CT, they weren't going to allow that again

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Burgold said:

QB? Smith had a stinker, but otherwise has been okay.

 

Not really.  We've had 1 redzone touchdown in the 2nd half in 4 games.  Our offense has been nonexistent in the 2nd half of games.  Other than the awful inaccuracies, he's pretty much played the same in all 4 games.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
15 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You're giving too much credit to this roster.  You really think yanking Alex woulda made a difference with both our starting wrs and rb out?  Pass defense surprised me, ill give you that, but you can't expect anything to work when your QB plays that bad.  If the extent of Jays ability to do anything is to bench him that isn't fixing anything.  And we did try screen passes, Saints were all over CT, they weren't going to allow that again

Just ask the question, why has Andy Reid been so successful year in and year out while Jay can't get anything going? Reid switched teams, changed Qb's, drafted his starting RB in like the 6th round and has no defense to speak of. The answer is that he's a better coach. He had Alex last year and went to the playoffs. Reid's schemes, preparation and overall coaching is just better than JG. In year 5 now, we need to accept that Jay doesn't have what it takes. Last night is on him.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, kingdaddy said:

Just ask the question, why has Andy Reid been so successful year in and year out while Jay can't get anything going? Reid switched teams, changed Qb's, drafted his starting RB in like the 6th round and has no defense to speak of. The answer is that he's a better coach. He had Alex last year and went to the playoffs. Reid's schemes, preparation and overall coaching is just better than JG. In year 5 now, we need to accept that Jay doesn't have what it takes. Last night is on him.

 

Did Reid draft Hunt?  Ok, either he has final say in personell, which Jay doesn't have, or front office found a steal, which our front office didnt.  Our front office gave him not one but two running backs (guice and ad) coming off knee injuries, neither played much of at all last night.

 

The only year Jay had a franchise QB and two legit WRs he went to the playoffs, coincidence?  Cheifs also have tyreek hill, who is outproducing all our wrs combined.  And they drafted a qb to replace Smith, that decision was made for Jay and told to make it work with someone else trash.  I said when trade happened that if Alex didnt adjacent talent in DC he wouldn't have similar results. 

 

Why are y'all acting surprised or blaming Jay for the logical conclusion of these personell decisions that he had no say in?

Edited by Renegade7
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Did Reid draft Hunt?  Ok, either he has final say in personell, which Jay doesn't have, or front office found a steal, which our front office didnt.  Our front office gave him not one but two running backs (guice and ad) coming off knee injuries, neither played much of at all last night.

 

The only year Jay had a franchise QB and two legit WRs he went to the playoffs, coincidence?  Cheifs also have tyreek hill, who is outproducing all our wrs combined.  And they drafted a qb to replace Smith, that decision was made for Jay and told to make it work with someone else trash.  I said when trade happened that if Alex didnt adjacent talent in DC he wouldn't have similar results. 

 

Why are y'all acting surprised or blaming Jay for the logical conclusion of these personell decisions that he had no say in?

 

From multiple accounts Jay has a lot of input into personnel.  What isn't in doubt is his inability to get his players to play up to their potential in big moments, ie the opener, prime time games, divisional games etc. They were off for 2 weeks, how can they look so unprepared?   Why does they seem to be outcoached so often?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I've been a vocal supporter of Jay since jump street. I still like him overall, but am starting to become more and more convinced that he was able to help us get from bad to mediocre, but maybe not take the next step. 

 

I also think he should get credit for that and believe that is a positive attribute. But he is beginning to fall into that coaching rut that his mentor in Cincinnati was in for so long...perpetually mediocre. I'll be curious to see if Minnesota regresses too...if they do, maybe the two guys off the Lewis tree are just destined to emulate Lewis himself. 

 

Unless something turns (and I don't mean next week, I mean much more consistently) I really won't be outraged with either direction (retain or fire) when the season ends.  

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
54 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

Did Reid draft Hunt?  Ok, either he has final say in personell, which Jay doesn't have, or front office found a steal, which our front office didnt.  Our front office gave him not one but two running backs (guice and ad) coming off knee injuries, neither played much of at all last night.

 

The only year Jay had a franchise QB and two legit WRs he went to the playoffs, coincidence?  Cheifs also have tyreek hill, who is outproducing all our wrs combined.  And they drafted a qb to replace Smith, that decision was made for Jay and told to make it work with someone else trash.  I said when trade happened that if Alex didnt adjacent talent in DC he wouldn't have similar results. 

 

Why are y'all acting surprised or blaming Jay for the logical conclusion of these personell decisions that he had no say in?

 

It's gone below the radar because it wasn't published in a story but Chris Russell has been on fire about what's going on with the FO.  In one of his segments in the off season he said Jay and Bruce butted heads about their FA approach this year.

 

Some beat guys with sources to either the FO or Jay kept saying if Kirk is gone watch them make a splash signing with that money -- partly to show that they are putting that money to good use and to get fans excited about something post Kirk.   In the end that never happened.  Guys like Finlay said they were stunned about FA based on what they heard previously would happen.

 

This is just a guess on my end but I presume Jay had bigger targets in mind than what Bruce ended up pursuing.  According to Russell (same guy who broke the Scot, Doug stories, etc) Jay wasn't a fan of their FA -- and they've had tension about it in the past but it was more intense this year then previously.

 

I am not here to make excuses for Jay.  If they end up a see saw up and down season -- if people want him gone I get that.  But if other moves aren't made too -- it will be same old same old IMO.  If Jay is a problem IMO he's far from the biggest problem.

Edited by Skinsinparadise
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Darrell Green Fan said:

 

From multiple accounts Jay has a lot of input into personnel.  What isn't in doubt is his inability to get his players to play up to their potential in big moments, ie the opener, prime time games, divisional games etc. They were off for 2 weeks, how can they look so unprepared?   Why does they seem to be outcoached so often?

 

You really believe Jay would rather have Alex Smith then QB he developed and had a playoff season with?

2 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

 

I am not here to make excuses for Jay.  If they end up a see saw up and down season -- if people want him gone I get that.  But if other moves aren't made too -- it will be same old same old IMO.  If Jay is a problem IMO he's far from the biggest problem.

 

This is key to me.  If i had to kick either Bruce or Jay off the island, i don't believe its a 50-50 choice among our fan base.  

 

Jay is no BB, that's for sure, but he isn't being given what he needs to compete or make up for that.  I'll say it again, a head coach can look like a genius with the right QB and idiot with a bad ones. We see this all the time with our team and other teams, its the NFL in nutshell

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Renegade7 said:

 

You really believe Jay would rather have Alex Smith then QB he developed and had a playoff season with?

 

This is key to me.  If i had to kick either Bruce or Jay off the island, i don't believe its a 50-50 choice among our fan base.  

 

Jay is no BB, that's for sure, but he isn't being given what he needs to compete or make up for that.  I'll say it again, a head coach can look like a genius with the right QB and idiot with a bad ones. We see this all the time with our team and other teams, its the NFL in nutshell

 

I have no idea but he had a number of quotes that were not exactly ringing endoresments of the QB. But we aren't just discussing Smith, we were discussing the entire roster and the thought that Jay was handicapped by a roster that is out of his control. I'm just pointing out he did have a lot of input in the roster. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.