Let's All Get Behind Alex Smith! Or Not!! (M.E.T.) NO kirk talk---that goes in ATN forum

[HTTRDynasty]

 

[DJHJR86]

On 6/8/2018 at 5:21 PM, Califan007 said:

 

What effin' QB did the Skins have that had 84 red zone TDs in 3 years? lol...

 

I'm an idiot...I counted both inside the 20 and inside the 10 stats thinking they were separate.  Kirk had 53 redzone TD passes in his 3 year span here as the starter.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

1 minute ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

I'm an idiot...I counted both inside the 20 and inside the 10 stats thinking they were separate.  Kirk had 53 redzone TD passes in his 3 year span here as the starter.

 

Ohhhh lol....Ok, I get it now. I've seen tables where they break down each TD according to where the pass was thrown and then just say "red zone" as well as "1-10 yd line" or something like that. Kind of misleading...

[goskins10]

1 hour ago, DJHJR86 said:

 

Edit...I counted both inside the 20 and inside the 10 stats thinking they were separate.  Kirk had 53 redzone TD passes in his 3 year span here as the starter.

 

You are not an idiot and will also not be the first to make a goof when compiling statistics. I appreciate you took the time to compile the numbers. Many just make a  statement then never do the research to support it. Just because you made a counting error and then BTW admitted it AND corrected, does not diminish the work you put in. 

 

Thanks! 

[Reaper Skins]

Does that stat account for Kirk's rushing TDs or just passing?

 

He ran in 4 in 2017, 4 in 2016, and 5 in 2015.

[mistertim]

4 hours ago, Califan007 said:

 

Ohhhh lol....Ok, I get it now. I've seen tables where they break down each TD according to where the pass was thrown and then just say "red zone" as well as "1-10 yd line" or something like that. Kind of misleading...

 

Yeah that's how ESPN breaks it down, so it can be a bit confusing. I've done the same thing when looking at those stats.

[HTTRDynasty]

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

21 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

 

 

Yikes lol...sounds good, though.

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

The reports from OTAs today about Smith are exciting. More downfield passing, tight windows, etc. 

 

I remember Cooley talking about how Cousins checked down a lot in practice. It may not mean anything for the QB position when the games start, but his point was that you gain nothing IN PRACTICE by checking down. You have to give your guys reps so that they are ready for game time. 

 

Reading these assessments of Smith, it seems he's at least doing that. You can take a risk in OTAs so that the WRs see a play develop and can react to the ball. That's better than running a route and looking back to see CT juke a LB while everyone is wearing shorts. 

[Always A Commander Never A Captain]

4 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Yikes lol...sounds good, though.

 

 

I think that's gotta be a beat reporter just caught up in the moment.  Kirk Cousins and Alex Smith have different reputations for being risk adverse.  I'd be surprised if Smith is suddenly playing like Brett Favre for us.

[HTTRDynasty]

10 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

Yikes lol...sounds good, though.

 

 

Yeah, it's definitely a good thing.  I doubt we see a huge uptick in aggressive throws during the regular season compared to the last few years, but I think it's great that Smith and Gruden are taking aggressive shots in OTAs and mini-camp.  It accomplishes two things:

 

• It gives them a sense of how confident they should be in the offense's ability to convert aggressive throws into first downs and touchdowns during the season, which will be necessary at many key moments throughout the year
• It gives the defense an opportunity to practice against an aggressive offense (e.g. an offense like the Eagles' where Wentz led the league in aggressive throws last year) and practice making plays when the ball is up for grabs

[TD_washingtonredskins]

2 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said:

 

Yeah, it's definitely a good thing.  I doubt we see a huge uptick in aggressive throws during the regular season compared to the last few years, but I think it's great that Smith and Gruden are taking aggressive shots in OTAs and mini-camp.  It accomplishes two things:

 

• It gives them a sense of how confident they should be in the offense's ability to convert aggressive throws into first downs and touchdowns during the season, which will be necessary at many points during the season
• It gives the defense an opportunity to practice against an aggressive offense (e.g. an offense like the Eagles' where Wentz led the league in aggressive throws last year) and practice making plays when the ball is up for grabs

 

Exactly - see my post above. 

 

Checking the ball down in practice serves absolutely no purpose. I don't think there's a lot to this other than it shows awareness that practicing certain things is important. You can still "follow the process" during games. 

[NoCalMike]

I think part of this goes back to a WR being open vs. wide open.  Cousins was not averse to throwing downfield to a WR like Jackson who would have 5 yards on the safety....the issue is that it isn't routine for a WR to be *that* wide open.  The QB is going to have to put some kind of trust in his deep ball as well as the WR(s) to make the play when a WR is not quite wide open, but open enough to attempt to go out and make the play. 

 

The biggest thing that stuck out watching game footage analysis of Cousins was his habit of turning down bigger plays that were there to be made, to throw the easier "can't-miss" plays in the shorter part of the field. 

 

 

[Califan007 The Constipated]

43 minutes ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

The reports from OTAs today about Smith are exciting. More downfield passing, tight windows, etc. 

 

I remember Cooley talking about how Cousins checked down a lot in practice. It may not mean anything for the QB position when the games start, but his point was that you gain nothing IN PRACTICE by checking down. You have to give your guys reps so that they are ready for game time. 

 

Reading these assessments of Smith, it seems he's at least doing that. You can take a risk in OTAs so that the WRs see a play develop and can react to the ball. That's better than running a route and looking back to see CT juke a LB while everyone is wearing shorts. 

 

I think Cooley put it in the context of Cousins being 'process-oriented' and putting emphasis on practicing the process, or something like that lol...

[TD_washingtonredskins]

1 minute ago, Califan007 said:

 

I think Cooley put it in the context of Cousins being 'process-oriented' and putting emphasis on practicing the process, or something like that lol...

 

He did - he also mentioned that it would drive him nuts as a teammate because you don't really need to practice a checkdown to #25 8 times with the limited practice reps they get during the week. 

[bakedtater1]

Championship folks!!

[Burgold]

2 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

The reports from OTAs today about Smith are exciting. More downfield passing, tight windows, etc. 

 

I remember Cooley talking about how Cousins checked down a lot in practice. It may not mean anything for the QB position when the games start, but his point was that you gain nothing IN PRACTICE by checking down. You have to give your guys reps so that they are ready for game time. 

 

Reading these assessments of Smith, it seems he's at least doing that. You can take a risk in OTAs so that the WRs see a play develop and can react to the ball. That's better than running a route and looking back to see CT juke a LB while everyone is wearing shorts. 

Those tight throws are obviously good for the receivers helping them prepare to compete for a ball, but they're also good for our DBs for the same reason. We want both groups ready to win contested balls or 50/50 balls.

 

Kirk's reluctance to throw higher risk balls in practice made both the wrs and dbs less prepared for what happens in real game situations. Alex is also not known as a high risk guy, but practice is different. This also helps Alex learn to trust the receivers when the windows are tight.

[Cooleyfan1993]

can pre-season be here please??? seeing these reports has me ready. real ready

[wit33]

Alex will take shots as they’re called and has shown ability to make the seam pass for a long time in his career. I can imagine Reed catching back shoulder seam passes often (albeit he doesn’t get hurt)—- This throw didn’t exist in the offense nearly enough. 

 

I don’t think Alex is naturally aggressive, but seems to be willing to “roll with a coaches call” when asked. 

 

I’m just hopeful he’s at a point I life where he doesn’t give a damn about perception or whatever, it seems through his interviews this is the case. 

 

[mistertim]

10 hours ago, TD_washingtonredskins said:

 

He did - he also mentioned that it would drive him nuts as a teammate because you don't really need to practice a checkdown to #25 8 times with the limited practice reps they get during the week. 

 

I think it drove Gruden a bit nuts as well. I remember Gruden once saying something about how Kirk in practice would want to feel 100% confident in a play and its process or he wouldn't want to run it. That's just paraphrasing obviously. He laughed a bit but you could tell it was a "joking not joking" sort of thing.

[88Comrade2000]

Jay Gruden: Alex Smith has to win right away

 

Smith has time, if he doesn't win right away.

 

You on the other hand Jay, don't.  If you can't get at least a .500 season this year; it's over for you.

[Skinsinparadise]

It's true maybe Jay only has a year.   Alex clearly has more based on his contract.  But I take the tone of the quote to be driven in part by Alex's age.  I am not in the camp of 40 is the new 30 in the NFL -- with an exception or two the QBs not missing a beat in their late 30s are hall of famer type Qbs.  Plenty lose a step.  Will Alex be one of these exceptions?  Got no idea.  But i am not banking on it.   We probably will get the best of Alex Smith in the next year or two.  And that's not even a little slam on Alex -- that's me talking about the typical QB -- mid 30s can be their final peak years for QBs just ask the Giants.  

 

Burgundy Blog‏Verified account @BurgundyBlog 11h11 hours ago

More

Jay on Alex: "We are not in here to build the team around him. The team is built and he has to lead it, like right now. This isn't a two- or three-year process. This is a one-year process and we have got to win right away."

 

 

 

As for Kirk's conservatism versus Alex Smith.  Should be interesting -- according to Benoit who studied both -- he thinks ironically that Alex's unwillingness to throw into tight spaces unlike Kirk will drive Jay nuts during the season.  He thinks Kirk is MUCH more aggressive. 

 

The KC guys who covered the team at least on their radio appearances especially Spector said Alex will drive the Redskins nuts with his conservativism.  A football outsiders guy on the radio said a few months back, that he's sticking with calling check down QBs -- the Alex stat -- and he didn't change that much on that count last year in spite of him going deep much more, he talked about some stat about throwing short passes on third down.  He talked about stats about guys like Aaron Rodgers on third and 8 for example -- he will throw the ball 8-10 yards down the field.  And Alex more than just about anyone will throw one short of the sticks. 

 

I noticed Joe Theismann who is practically a mouthpiece for the organization who has been in practice has been baited to death about Alex Smith and still doesn't go he's better than Kirk aside from talking about him being better at unscripted plays -- but just about always goes into a pro Kirk rap about how amazing he was last year working with nothing.

 

And nope this isn't for me to say Kirk>Alex.  I am sticking to Alex = Kirk.  Or they are close one way or another.  But to me this is actually a pro Alex drill here for me -- I think we are setting up the dude to be disappointing if we think he's magically going to take us far without a good supporting cast. 

 

I think Kirk is a playoff QB with the right supporting cast.  Ditto Alex Smith.  To me Alex Smith's season is going to be about Jordan Reed being healthy, Doctson developing, Guice being the star I think he is and the defense doing their thing.  I am confident Alex will do his thing but he's not a carry a team on his shoulders type.  Very few QBs are that.  

 

https://redskinswire.usatoday.com/2017/06/17/kirk-cousins-more-aggressive-on-last-day-of-redskins-minicamp/

 

It looked as if Cousins was pressing with his throws and was forcing the action....

 

After practice, however, while speaking to the media from the INOVA Sports Performance Center at Redskins Park, Cousins gave an indication that his struggles were actually part of a bigger picture...

 

“Today we said, just from a quarterback’s perspective, we said, ‘Hey, let’s try a few things today,’ so I think all of us were being a little bit more aggressive,” Cousins explained.

“In a game, I can’t do that,” Cousins said. “In practice, it’s good to experiment and try it with no major consequences and threw a couple of others into tighter coverage that I don’t want to make a habit of doing, but as long as I can learn from it not to do that again, but also what I can get away with and what works. I think that’s where OTAs and minicamp are very valuable.”

[Califan007 The Constipated]

10 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

It's true maybe Jay only has a year.   Alex clearly has more based on his contract.  But I take the tone of the quote to be driven in part by Alex's age.  I am not in the camp of 40 is the new 30 in the NFL -- with an exception or two the QBs not missing a beat in their late 30s are hall of famer type Qbs.  Plenty lose a step.  Will Alex be one of these exceptions?  Got no idea.  But i am not banking on it.   We probably will get the best of Alex Smith in the next year or two.  And that's not even a little slam on Alex -- that's me talking about the typical QB -- mid 30s can be their final peak years for QBs just ask the Giants.  

 

Burgundy Blog‏Verified account @BurgundyBlog 11h11 hours ago

More

Jay on Alex: "We are not in here to build the team around him. The team is built and he has to lead it, like right now. This isn't a two- or three-year process. This is a one-year process and we have got to win right away."

 

I took it as the Eagles' winning the SB in two years is affecting the front office and ownership...if you're a head coach in the NFC East entering your 5th year, you can't be sayihg 'it takes time' when Philthy won it all in their head coach's 2nd year. I also remember reading somewhere that if a head coach hasn't won the SB in his first 5 years he likely won't win one at all. So Gruden absolutely needs to have a "**** this ****, we're gonna win now" attitude.

 

 

[TD_washingtonredskins]

I like the sense of urgency as a fan, so let's see. I guess if Gruden comes out and states that we have everything we need to win then he's stepping up and taking accountability for however this season ends up. I want him to stick, but the "win-win" from that is we will see if he can really lead a contending team or not. 

[Skinsinparadise]

19 minutes ago, Califan007 said:

 

I took it as the Eagles' winning the SB in two years is affecting the front office and ownership...if you're a head coach in the NFC East entering your 5th year, you can't be sayihg 'it takes time' when Philthy won it all in their head coach's 2nd year. I also remember reading somewhere that if a head coach hasn't won the SB in his first 5 years he likely won't win one at all. So Gruden absolutely needs to have a "**** this ****, we're gonna win now" attitude.

 

 

 

Cooley/Sheehan running a segment on the topic ironically right now.  I agree with their takes on it which they are 2-3 players away.  I think they need another off season.  IMO they mostly wasted so far FA.  They did well in the draft, though.  If they would have signed a LG or kept Long.  Signed another corner.  Kept Galette or Murphy.  That's my view of it.  I don't think they did quite enough to have a great year.  Maybe one of those squeeze into the playoffs if they get the right breaks and then do the typical get kicked out of the playoffs in round 1 drill.

 

To me that wouldn't be Jay's fault or for that matter Alex Smith.  I think they need more.  I don't think they are a mile away though.  One more off season IMO.    But yeah lets say they go 9-7 and miss the playoffs, I'd hate to see Jay go for that.  I think that would be unfair let alone stopping the ride when they are getting close.  I hate starting over.  Stability wins.

 

But I agree its good to have the mindset of win now -- urgency.  Shanny would bug me at times when he'd talk about the 5 year plan.