Alex Smith Trade Thread (Details Inside)

[JamesMadisonSkins]

I'm also trying to figure out how the Redskins are going to manage to keep Cousins and get any value for him. The Redskins literally have no leverage ... let's talk about the main 2 points ...

 

1. Franchising Cousins would be $34 million + at least $17 million for Smith and everyone KNOWS we aren't carrying 2 QBs for $51 million. Total insanity. And also literally eats every ounce of our cap space, including what we'd need to sign our draft picks, so you'd also need to CUT someone. So again, the Redskins aren't in a position to even threaten to carry both, because everyone knows they can't ... period.

 

2. Sure, Denver could approach us and say "tag him, we want him, we'll pay him and don't want to risk him hitting FA and getting a massive offer from, say, Cleveland. Cool, sounds good in theory. But why would Kirk agree to this? If the threat to Denver is Cousins could get more money on the open market in an open bidding war ... and Kirk has repeatedly said he wants to "test the market" ... why at this stage would be agree to cut the bidding before it begins just so the Redskins can get some compensation? Again, this makes 0 sense to me.

 

Folks, Cousins is gone as an unrestricted free agent. We will get a 3rd round compensation pick in 2019. Any thought that we'd get more is asinine considering we have absolutely no leverage. 

[KDawg]

Now that the dust has settled a bit here...

 

I love the trade.

 

It's the best move the team could have made. 

 

Kirk was now overpriced for us. Yes, that's our fault.

 

So what do you do? Sign a guy, who is in a nutshell, the same quarterback.

 

Safe, reliable, smart.

 

Smith is better with his legs. Kirk has a better knack of leading his team back to victory, but also a much higher risk of costing his team the game with mistakes in key moments. Smith is older. Smith is cheaper.

 

All things considered, the Skins got a good deal here considering how badly they botched this whole thing to begin with.

 

But I will say this: We're going to miss Kendall Fuller.

 

EDIT: Also, why are people even thinking sign and trade? I mean, it's technically possible it happens, but Kirk is going to hit the open market and leave. As he should at this point. Move on.

[WelshSkinsFan]

25 minutes ago, Rocky52Mc said:

 

Don't know if I agree with that at all. It's most likely a 3 year extension, hence why he got $71,000,000 in guaranteed money. 71/3 = $23.67 million per year average. There is no chance you'd eat that kind of money in 2 years, it's more likely spread out a little bit to save them cap THIS YEAR. They're betting that the cap continues to grow and the cost can be off-set in the future. Additionally, Smith's contract is literally built around a rookie sitting behind him for 3-4 years and being in the same situation again at that point. 

 

Not official til it is signed but the word is the contract is only guaranteed for injury beyond the first 2 years so that would be $47 million after the $17 million he is due on his old deal this year.  That would take us to 3 years and so gives ample time to work on a succession plan and to not force anything in the draft if the right guy is not there this year.

[joeken24]

So has Kirk's leverage on the Redskins lessened with this deal? They are two separate transaction. The Redskins can still franchise Kirk. Kirk either signs or sits out the season ~ no salary. The Redskins now have a comparable QB to play in his place this year (if that happens) at a lower salary. That's actually putting the leverage back in the Redskins' court. If he signs the franchise deal, the Redskins can now begin taking trade offers for him. Again, Redskins' leverage because you have your guy in Alex.

 

So here's what it come down to.....they now have two highly sought after QBs in this year's free agency market! They can even leverage both in a pretty good trade or draft scenario. Hell, Alex might be a sign and trade!! Of course, they'll need to be careful with how they go about that. But hey, the business side of football says, anyone can ask about a player, so taking a call about either one would be the explanation the front office should give to the media if ask.

 

6 teams (including the Browns) were after Alex; Who knows how many teams are after Kirk. 

 

Ultimately, the Redskins end up with a comparable QB for less money and something for Kirk if this plays out.

 

BTW, Keeping Fuller would have been nice, but I have a feeling Hosley may be pretty good at the slot. They also must feel good enough about Dunbar and the rest of the DBs coming up. Fuller was good, but it wasn't like it was the '86 Bears defense.

 

We'll see......

 

 

[Smooters]

So excited for the Haslett Defense 2.0 next season!

[CommDownMan]

I doubt we get anything for a trade with Cousins, but it would work if there was still an option of trading Smith (be a dumb move), but the transition tag and threat of keeping Cousins could still happen.  Although at that point, we'd know BA really just wants to piss off KC more than anything.  

[Spearfeather]

7 minutes ago, joeken24 said:

So has Kirk's leverage on the Redskins lessened with this deal? They are two separate transaction. The Redskins can still franchise Kirk. Kirk either signs or sits out the season ~ no salary.

 

 

Could someone please clarify this ? 

[Mrshadow008]

16 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

I'm also trying to figure out how the Redskins are going to manage to keep Cousins and get any value for him. The Redskins literally have no leverage ... let's talk about the main 2 points ...

 

1. Franchising Cousins would be $34 million + at least $17 million for Smith and everyone KNOWS we aren't carrying 2 QBs for $51 million. Total insanity. And also literally eats every ounce of our cap space, including what we'd need to sign our draft picks, so you'd also need to CUT someone. So again, the Redskins aren't in a position to even threaten to carry both, because everyone knows they can't ... period.

 

2. Sure, Denver could approach us and say "tag him, we want him, we'll pay him and don't want to risk him hitting FA and getting a massive offer from, say, Cleveland. Cool, sounds good in theory. But why would Kirk agree to this? If the threat to Denver is Cousins could get more money on the open market in an open bidding war ... and Kirk has repeatedly said he wants to "test the market" ... why at this stage would be agree to cut the bidding before it begins just so the Redskins can get some compensation? Again, this makes 0 sense to me.

 

Folks, Cousins is gone as an unrestricted free agent. We will get a 3rd round compensation pick in 2019. Any thought that we'd get more is asinine considering we have absolutely no leverage. 

The skins would ALL the leverage there actually. If the skins were to throw the tag on him he either signs the tag and gets traded OR he doesn’t sign the tag and sit out the whole year. If the skins place the tag on him he has absolutely no way around it at all. Obviously a team would have to agree to a trade before that happened though. 

[BleedBNG]

5 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

2. Sure, Denver could approach us and say "tag him, we want him, we'll pay him and don't want to risk him hitting FA and getting a massive offer from, say, Cleveland. Cool, sounds good in theory. But why would Kirk agree to this? If the threat to Denver is Cousins could get more money on the open market in an open bidding war ... and Kirk has repeatedly said he wants to "test the market" ... why at this stage would be agree to cut the bidding before it begins just so the Redskins can get some compensation? Again, this makes 0 sense to me.

 

And also... why would Kirk want to deplete any good players from the team he'd be heading to?

 

4 minutes ago, KDawg said:

Now that the dust has settled a bit here...

I love the trade.

It's the best move the team could have made. 

But I will say this: We're going to miss Kendall Fuller.

 

At first I didn't like giving Fuller away, but when I found out about 6 other teams were trying to get Smith I guess it had to happen. I think we'll eventually make up for it. Right now I'm wondering if we'll go Safety or DT as our first pick in the draft.

[SoCalSkins]

7 minutes ago, KDawg said:

 

EDIT: Also, why are people even thinking sign and trade? I mean, it's technically possible it happens, but Kirk is going to hit the open market and leave. As he should at this point. Move on.

 

The nfl compensatory system is complicated. Basically we would have to be somewhat inactive in free agency to get a 3rd for Kirk next year. If we go hard in free agency the comp pick won’t be as high. So having a firm asset now from a trade lets the Skins be as active as they want without consequence plus it improves the team in 2018 instead of 2019. 

 

If Cousins has a specific destination in mind, then it is to his benefit to be allowed to negotiate with the Redskins permission prior to free agency.

 

Redskins started the musical chairs last night. If Kirk is serious that money isn’t only factor then it can be a win for him for the new team and the skins.

[KDawg]

Just now, BleedBNG said:

 

At first I didn't like giving Fuller away, but when I found out about 6 other teams were trying to get Smith I guess it had to happen. I think we'll eventually make up for it. Right now I'm wondering if we'll go Safety or DT as our first pick in the draft.

 

I think we go BPA...

 

But I have a strange feeling we trade down and go running back.

[Rufus T Firefly]

46 minutes ago, Rocky52Mc said:

 

This year is not included in the 71 million. That would be the extension.

Yes it will be. How it's exactly structured is a wait and see, but he won't get the 17 mil and then an additional 71 mil guaranteed. You have my own guarantee on that. If it turns out to be a true 71 mil guaranteed, then that money will be made up of a signing bonus and whatever guaranteed salaries in 18, 19 and 20.

[Rex Tomb]

At this point, Bruce Allen is married to Smith. If this thing goes awry, it would probably be grounds for termination under Snyder.  

[JamesMadisonSkins]

3 minutes ago, Mrshadow008 said:

The skins would ALL the leverage there actually. If the skins were to throw the tag on him he either signs the tag and gets traded OR he doesn’t sign the tag and sit out the whole year. If the skins place the tag on him he has absolutely no way around it at all. Obviously a team would have to agree to a trade before that happened though. 

But Denver would only want Cousins on a LTD and would want guaranteed that he’d negotiate with them. So before we slap the tag and send him to Denver, Cousins needs to agree to a LTD with Denver. He could just sign the tag and play another year on $34 million and go to FA next year. Not enough control for Washington and i don’t trust our FO to be able to execute

[BleedBNG]

Just now, KDawg said:

 

I think we go BPA...

 

But I have a strange feeling we trade down and go running back.

 

I'm sure Barkley will be off the boards (probably to Cleveland), so maybe Love will be available.

[SWFLSkins]

 

[Mahomes]

1 hour ago, #BgMase76# said:

You gotta be a Chief's fan or something. Because the irony of talking about a scrambling QB getting injured is not lost on us.

Smith side steps trouble was never near the dynamic runner rg3 was. Thats why I never like "running" qbs. Works in college but nfl defenders are just too big talented/physical to survive. You guys were smart as hell to draft cousins too. That was a baller move.

[SkinsRx]

7 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

2. Sure, Denver could approach us and say "tag him, we want him, we'll pay him and don't want to risk him hitting FA and getting a massive offer from, say, Cleveland. Cool, sounds good in theory. But why would Kirk agree to this? If the threat to Denver is Cousins could get more money on the open market in an open bidding war ... and Kirk has repeatedly said he wants to "test the market" ... why at this stage would be agree to cut the bidding before it begins just so the Redskins can get some compensation? Again, this makes 0 sense to me.

 

Kirk MAY agree to this because he stated that it's not all about the money.  He cares about winning too.  Kirk going to Denver immediately makes them a Superbowl contender.  Money talks, but imagine how much Kirk would like to win the big game and rub it in Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen's faces.  But if, instead, Kirk chases the money and goes to the Browns, it's hard to see them becoming a Superbowl caliber team before Kirk's contract with them expires.  Unless the Browns offer him something crazy like $20 mil more than the next best offer, I would think Kirk would prefer to sign with the Broncos over the Browns or the Jets.  The Broncos clearly give him the best shot at winning.  And even if the Broncos don't have much room under the salary cap, I'm sure they have people in the FO who can figure out a way to make it work.  Trading/cutting players, restructuring contracts, etc.  Aren't the Cowboys and Saints famous for doing this year after year to try and win now?  I think the Broncos could still make Kirk the highest paid player in NFL history by getting super creative with his contract.  Maybe they can give him all the guaranteed money he wants while back loading the contract?  In any case, I think the Broncos really want Kirk and I would guess that Kirk wants to play in Denver too.  So if John Elway sees this as the only way of getting his QB, he might be able to convince Kirk to do the tag and trade deal.

[galloprf]

38 minutes ago, Birdlives said:

Goodness. No one is trading for Kirk. He’s leaving as an unrestricted free agent. There is literally no scenario where some one and Kirk will agree to  this scenario. We have Zero leverage here. It’s time to stop bogging down this thread and let go. 

I think you might be wrong! Until March 14th the Redskins are the only team that can tag/sign Cousins. Can the Redskins trade that right for a conditional pick. Example: If the Redskins trade their current rights and the new team tags him and then signs him to a 1-year tag deal the Redskins get a pick (5th), if they get him signed to a long-term deal we get a 3rd. If they don't sign him we get nothing.  It seems as though our current position might have some value. 

[clskinsfan]

58 minutes ago, UKskins said:

Yeah, I guess the other factor is we don't have to sign the Smith trade on March 14th either.

 

Now Kirk, here are your options:

 

1) You can play nice and go to Denver in a trade for Aqib Talib that suits everyone and allows you to compete

 

2) You can refuse to sign the tag and sit, helping nobody and making you look like an ass

 

3) You can decide to not play nice and we'll franchise you and send your ass to the Browns or Jets for whatever we can get on the tag (likely a 7th given the hit is so high but taking his options away)

 

The fact that we can't make the Smith trade until FA actually gives us a little bit of leverage here. If we signed off on the Smith trade last night then Kirk does Denver a favour by letting them dump Aqib Talib contract or he goes to highest bidder in FA. With the trade not being signed off, and not having to be signed off immediately on March 14th, we can still play this out further. It's not much, but it's something. We don't have to renege on the Smith deal, as long as one of the Jets or Browns would pick Kirk up at tag value for something (a 7th rounder, a camp fodder player etc). Given a LTD for Kirk is likely to be 30m+ and they'll both be bidding, it's not a ridiculous suggestion.

 

You are forgetting one other option. He can sign the tag and sit for 28 million next year. Not a chance we are tagging Cousins. He is gone and we will be getting a 3rd round compensatory in 2019.

[Mrshadow008]

20 minutes ago, JamesMadisonSkins said:

But Denver would only want Cousins on a LTD and would want guaranteed that he’d negotiate with them. So before we slap the tag and send him to Denver, Cousins needs to agree to a LTD with Denver. He could just sign the tag and play another year on $34 million and go to FA next year. Not enough control for Washington and i don’t trust our FO to be able to execute

The front office would have to give Denver to negotiate with cousins now. Which is a real possibility. 

[Birdlives]

45 minutes ago, skins2victory said:

Tell me why you would not transition tag Kirk at this point. Why would you just let him walk, when we have the cards to play hard ball. There are multiple teams that want him. He would have to sign the tag if we designated it to him, otherwise he does not play this year.

 

He doesn’t have to sign the tag. He can simply seek a LTD with another team that we can’t match because we traded for Smith. We still get nothing. Or, he could sign the transition tag and then we’re on the hook for 28mil + 17mil for Smith thus taking most of our cap space. 

[clskinsfan]

46 minutes ago, skins2victory said:

Tell me why you would not transition tag Kirk at this point. Why would you just let him walk, when we have the cards to play hard ball. There are multiple teams that want him. He would have to sign the tag if we designated it to him, otherwise he does not play this year.

 

If he doesnt want to go to a certain team he can say he wont sign a long term deal with them. Who is going to rent Cousins for ONE YEAR at 28 or 34 million? No one. The Skins have absolutely NO leverage here. Kirk would just sign any tag we place on him and ruin the Skins cap.

[skins2victory]

2 minutes ago, clskinsfan said:

 

You are forgetting one other option. He can sign the tag and sit for 28 million next year. Not a chance we are tagging Cousins. He is gone and we will be getting a 3rd round compensatory in 2019.

I don't see that happening. There are too many teams that would love to have him. We would trade his to the highest bidder. He has vale and would be traded somewhere for something.

[OlufemiBiz]

*Some more insight regarding New Redskins' QB Alex Smith, from guys with much more intimate & relevant knowledge than us:

 

 

Hail!