Will Cousins Play For The Skins In 2018

[Voice_of_Reason]

4 hours ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

C: The long ball - you must heave the long ball A LOT.

Sexy Rexy says, "**** it, I'm going deep."

 

(He didn't win and couldn't scramble, so he wasn't a perfect fit.  But damn did he have the chuck it deep thing down.)

 

Overall, I agree with you on what most fans look for. 

 

In my opinion, here's what makes a good/great QB:

 

1. Toughness/availability

2. Accuracy

3. Ability to extend plays, especially in the red zone

4. Avoid the catastrophic mistake (most of the time)

5. Ability to read the field and find the open guy (and then hit him, bringing in #2, accuracy)

 

Here's what defines the Elite/HOF/GOAT QBs.

1. Everything above

2. Knowing game situations and knowing when to take "the shot"

3. Knack in completing those shots and making plays in big situations

4. Winning in big game situations consistently **

5. Being able to out-smart a defense, figure out what they are doing quickly, and then adapting quickly.

 

Not every elite QB will win every big game.  Brady/Manning/Brees/Rodgers are elite, HOF QBs, and even they've all had bad games in big spots.  

 

** There are also some elite QBs who get stuck on trash teams for a period.  They will elevate the team around them, but they can't overcome awful units.  I give 2 examples, Drew Brees couldn't overcome just awful defeneses for a few years, and the year the Pats made the AFC Championship and lost to Indy, Brady was throwing to a bunch of guys who were just "meh" at best.  And then that WR with the big eyes dropped a TD which essentially sealed the game for the Colts.  The next year the Pats trade for Moss. 

 

Look at Brees against the Vikings.  That's an elite QB.  Sure, they lost.  But after getting totally stymied in the first half against the best defense in football, he figured it out, re-grouped in the second half, and led them to the lead with 24 seconds remaining.  He also completed a 4th and 10 to keep the drive alive on a perfect pass to a guy who has something like 6 passes a year.  That's elite.  

 

Kirk isn't elite.  But he's very good.  He is prone to a catestrophic mistake here and there, and sometimes he doesn't buy enough time with his feet.  He's very good.  

 

He doesn't do the things that elite QBs do consistently.  Hence, he's not elite.

 

All this to say, I still think the 'Skins are better off with Kirk than without him.  

 

 

EDIT: Winning matters for a QB.  Marino might have been the best QB in the league for 10-15 years.  He didn't win.  Elway won.  Even before the 2 SBs, he got his teams TO the SB 3 times.  Marino couldn't do that. Winning matters.  It's not the only thing you evaluate to see if a guy is any good, but if you're going to be elite/HOF level, you gotta win.  

[onedrop]

28 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Grant Paulsen who I think among media guys is closet to Kirk just goes the following:  he thinks Kirk would take a deal at a discount with a team like Jax if he hits FA.  If he hits FA he means what he says:  he just wins to win.  He'd likely go for something under 25 mill a year for a good organization.

 

It doesn't paint a great picture of him staying here if he hits the FA market.  In other words, Kirk might be willing to do a deal to help a team build a winner -- that team might not be this one, though because he doesn't have that type of faith in this FO.

 

If so, my take is if you want to invite a bidding process, I don't see how you don't go transition tag.  If Kirk's drill is to go to a competent-winning franchise, I don't think DC is his top destination. 

agreed and can anyone blame him? honestly we as fans have to respect the fact that a good player one third to halfway through his career has the right to want to play for a team other than the dysfunctional mess that drafted him before time is up. imagine that, a professional at the highest level they've trained for all of their life that would like some input into their destiny......the horror. we are married to this nightmare, players are not. i begrudge no one for wanting out of here.

[CommanderDOOM]

53 minutes ago, Veryoldschool said:

The Skins. 

I'd assume your old hence the name and the Ike but you've only been a skin fan since 1980??? You hoping Ben retires so you can go back to being a Steeler fan ??? 

[bowhunter]

46 minutes ago, Skinsinparadise said:

 

Grant Paulsen who I think among media guys is closet to Kirk just goes the following:  he thinks Kirk would take a deal at a discount with a team like Jax if he hits FA.  If he hits FA he means what he says:  he just wins to win.  He'd likely go for something under 25 mill a year for a good organization.

 

It doesn't paint a great picture of him staying here if he hits the FA market.  In other words, Kirk might be willing to do a deal to help a team build a winner -- that team might not be this one, though because he doesn't have that type of faith in this FO.

 

If so, my take is if you want to invite a bidding process, I don't see how you don't go transition tag.  If Kirk's drill is to go to a competent-winning franchise, I don't think DC is his top destination. 

I hope you're wrong. But I honestly deep down feel that Kirk will stay, and at a fair price at that. It's not (solely) about the money with him. Things like loyalty are important to him. Grandmas mini-van was less than the ideal vehicle, but he stuck with it. I realize that I am far too trusting of people, and there's a lot of homerism in me. But I think he'll stay for less than $25/year x 4years, $65 guaranteed. Of course, feel free to point out that I was wrong about this in 2017.

[CommanderDOOM]

17 minutes ago, onedrop said:

i begrudge no one for wanting out of here.

 

They've been ****ty for years and have lucked into some nice players on D. Them giving up on Blake so fast wouldn't be the best look would it? What are they gonna do when all those rookie contracts expire?? You obviously look at KC as more than a system guy and as a guy who's going to be the same guy as soon as he steps in the door. ?

And to take a discount but not for the team that made him?? 

[zCommander]

5 hours ago, KDawg said:

As I read people’s opinions on various QBs, I’d love to understand how some judge QB play. 

 

 

 

What I am seeing is that QB play is being judged by how much money they are making or will make.  

 

But seriously, you can't put every throw a QB makes under a microscope like some do here on game day. I like to look at the whole picture like improvements and makings less mistakes and throwing off-schedule and making them count or using one's feet to get yards when there is no one to throw to. Kirk has done that. He gets a solid B+ and sometimes a A-. Kirk still needs a lot of help if he is going to be successful here or anywhere else for that matter with the running game and good to stud WR and TE to throw to.  

 

Moreover, we all know defenses wins championships but what if your D is not having a good day you still need an O who can bail them out. A team effort has to be there and for that the O needs to have all the pieces as well. 

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

10 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

They've been ****ty for years and have lucked into some nice players on D.

Lucked? So are the Redskins just cursed to never have that kind of luck?

 

11 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

Them giving up on Blake so fast wouldn't be the best look would it? 

Totally depends on who they get to replace him and what they have to do to the rest of their roster to make that happen.

 

11 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

What are they gonna do when all those rookie contracts expire??

I'd imagine they hope to win a Super Bowl prior to that happening.  But you could say the same for any team that drafts well.  The NFL is about continuously drafting well and having the foresight to continue building while knowing their are good to great players you may have to part with.

13 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

You obviously look at KC as more than a system guy and as a guy who's going to be the same guy as soon as he steps in the door. ?

Well yeah, because he runs a WCO that teams have and continue to run for decades.  A lot of QB's are 'system' guys.  I know it sounds crazy and all, but believe it or not - the more one does something, the better they know it and typically perform better down the road as a result of it.

 

15 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

And to take a discount but not for the team that made him?? 

Made him what?

Richer than he should be due to their own ineptitude.

 

[onedrop]

1 minute ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

They've been ****ty for years and have lucked into some nice players on D. Them giving up on Blake so fast wouldn't be the best look would it. What are they gonna do when all those rookie contracts expire?? You obviously look at KC as more of system guy and as a guy who's going to be the same guy as soon as he steps in the door. ?

And take a discount but not for the team that made him?? 

how do i "obviously" think anything? i know that if it were me id take same or similar money to leave this laughing stock. personally id take a bit less at a chance of stability, winning, respectability and simply getting off snyders merry go round of stupidity.

 

i don't know anything about the jags or blake other than he seems to suck hard at QB whenever i watch him. nor do i care what they or he does, in any regard, about anything, football related or not.

 

maybe the redskins "made" KC. OR maybe they were just another stop along his football life, learning some all along the way. i don't know for sure either way but the mans contract, that the team chose, is up. if I'm him, I'm out. 

 

people want all of this loyalty from players but it is time to realize our love for the team and fabled support as a fanbase has finally been surpassed by years of snyders greed, ineptitude and idiocy.  other than being drafted money is the only lure for washington. we know how that works out.

[Skinsinparadise]

40 minutes ago, bowhunter said:

I hope you're wrong. But I honestly deep down feel that Kirk will stay, and at a fair price at that. It's not (solely) about the money with him. Things like loyalty are important to him. Grandmas mini-van was less than the ideal vehicle, but he stuck with it. I realize that I am far too trusting of people, and there's a lot of homerism in me. But I think he'll stay for less than $25/year x 4years, $65 guaranteed. Of course, feel free to point out that I was wrong about this in 2017.

 

There is no way to tell.  Too bad we could just guess.  I am just listening to people who are supposedly close to the action and hope they are on to something.  The hard thing here is there isn't consensus about much.   The one common narrative is that Kirk's #1 goal isn't a big pay day but to set himself up in an organization that he believes has a FO that can build a winner.  I don't get the vibe listening to the beat reporters that Kirk thinks the Redskins are that organization albeit he's not ruling them out as a choice. 

 

We got Albert Breer saying:  The Redskins let Kirk hit FA and have some hope that he signs here on the open market. And they will give him a competitive offer, ultimately. Kirk is willing to come back but he's totally open to leaving, too.  Redskins don't have a better or worse chance in the open market.  Kirk isn't ruling the Browns out as an option.

 

We got Tandler saying:  The Redskins likely transition tag him and won't let him hit FA because of the PR fall out of losing him for a ham sandwich

 

We got Russell saying:  Jay loves himself some Colt McCoy.  He likes Kirk, too but doesn't see it as the end all be all.   He thinks he can win with McCoy.  He identifies with McCoy's underdog persona and thinks he's a new QB since he has years to verse himself in the system.   And, Bruce is the guy in the building pushing the let Kirk go narrative and its Bruce's neck on the line if Kirk goes and Plan B blows up -- maybe Jay too if he pushes McCoy hard. 

 

We got Paulsen saying:  Kirk leaves, probably giving a FA discount to a winning franchise.  Redskins do something splashy (trade, FA, draft) to take Redskins fans minds off of it.

 

We got Finlay saying:  don't rule out the franchise tag and he thinks Kirk is back on a one year deal. 

[PF Chang]

30 minutes ago, TheShredSkinz said:

 

Them giving up on Blake so fast wouldn't be the best look would it? 

 

Bortles was in a legitimate competition with Chad Henne for the starting job during preseason. He sucks. People try to avoid giving opponents bulletin board material, but he sucks enough that multiple opponents have said so. His teammates have criticized him. 

 

Did you watch the Buffalo playoff game? His accuracy was legitimately embarrassing for an NFL QB. 

 

 

[Veryoldschool]

Just now, PF Chang said:

 

Bortles was in a legitimate competition with Chad Henne for the starting job during preseason. He sucks. People try to avoid giving opponents bulletin board material, but he sucks enough that multiple opponents have said so. His teammates have criticized him. 

 

Did you watch the Buffalo playoff game? His accuracy was legitimately embarrassing for an NFL QB. 

 

 

 Put Kirk on that team and you'd really have something.

[Redd]

1 minute ago, PF Chang said:

 

Bortles was in a legitimate competition with Chad Henne for the starting job during preseason. He sucks. People try to avoid giving opponents bulletin board material, but he sucks enough that multiple opponents have said so. His teammates have criticized him. 

 

Did you watch the Buffalo playoff game? His accuracy was legitimately embarrassing for an NFL QB. 

 

 

Yea.  That Buffalo game.  He was missing some wide open receivers all game.  Just straight up throwing in their general direction and being wayyy off.

 

He did make some great plays with his legs though to help win it.

[KDawg]

You guys realize the wind was a major factor in that game, right? I agree his accuracy was terrible, but his body of work is a bit better than that game. So if that’s what you’re basing your entire position on Bortles on, watch a bit more

[PF Chang]

Bortles is a career 59% passer and has notoriously accumulated a lot of stats in garbage time when the defense is giving you safe throws. 

 

Allen Robinson in training camp this year: "keep that **** in bounds, bro." An actual quote. 

 

This thread is the only place in the world where "Blake Bortles is an inaccurate QB" is controversial. 

 

 

[skins island connection]

1 hour ago, Veryoldschool said:

 Put Kirk on that team and you'd really have something.

If he were on the Jags squad today, the Pats would be an underdog in their own stadium in that game.

 

I dunno why everyone's so wrapped up in Cousins re-signing here, he's good as gone to the Jags, win or lose come sunday. Coughlin will pull off some form of trade or simply out-pay Allen and the FO, and they will be the overwhelming favorites to win it all next year. Its all but spelled out in plain English, and guarantee that if Bortles game goes south in a hurry this sunday, the people calling the game will bring it up very quickly, and it will catch on with everyone else, but Coughlin is already 2 steps ahead of everyone else.

 

The Jags would be fools NOT to pursue Cousins, and the opportunity to play in a division that is overall weak will be even more sweeter.

[JSSkinz]

27 minutes ago, PF Chang said:

Bortles is a career 59% passer and has notoriously accumulated a lot of stats in garbage time when the defense is giving you safe throws. 

 

 

 

Are you sure about that?

 

Bortles

2015 - went 5-11 and lost 6 games by 7 or less points.

2016 - went 3-13 and lost 8 games by 7 or less points.

2 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

If he were on the Jags squad today, the Pats would be an underdog in their own stadium in that game.

 

I dunno why everyone's so wrapped up in Cousins re-signing here, he's good as gone to the Jags, win or lose come sunday. Coughlin will pull off some form of trade or simply out-pay Allen and the FO, and they will be the overwhelming favorites to win it all next year. Its all but spelled out in plain English, and guarantee that if Bortles game goes south in a hurry this sunday, the people calling the game will bring it up very quickly, and it will catch on with everyone else, but Coughlin is already 2 steps ahead of everyone else.

 

The Jags would be fools NOT to pursue Cousins, and the opportunity to play in a division that is overall weak will be even more sweeter.

 

Luck will be back and the young QB at Houston is a stud, this may end up being one of the more competitive divisions in the AFC when its all said and done.

[petey hodge]

Does anyone know when the stay/go decision will occur?

[BatteredFanSyndrome]

1 hour ago, KDawg said:

You guys realize the wind was a major factor in that game, right? I agree his accuracy was terrible, but his body of work is a bit better than that game. So if that’s what you’re basing your entire position on Bortles on, watch a bit more

Interesting take.  

 

God forbid someone mention the elements here after Cousins plays less than stellar though.

 

Not saying you, but the pitchfork toting crew will hear none of it.

 

Still not with you on Bortles not being dung though.

 

 

[onedrop]

58 minutes ago, skins island connection said:

If he were on the Jags squad today, the Pats would be an underdog in their own stadium in that game.

 

I dunno why everyone's so wrapped up in Cousins re-signing here, he's good as gone to the Jags, win or lose come sunday. Coughlin will pull off some form of trade or simply out-pay Allen and the FO, and they will be the overwhelming favorites to win it all next year. Its all but spelled out in plain English, and guarantee that if Bortles game goes south in a hurry this sunday, the people calling the game will bring it up very quickly, and it will catch on with everyone else, but Coughlin is already 2 steps ahead of everyone else.

 

The Jags would be fools NOT to pursue Cousins, and the opportunity to play in a division that is overall weak will be even more sweeter.

on the radio the other day they were basically saying the jags want to keep winning but the more they do they screw themselves because it is more likely that bortles is their QB next year. you have to be a special kind of terrible to be one game from a superbowl and have sports pundits say that kind of crap about you.

[zoony]

40 minutes ago, petey hodge said:

Does anyone know when the stay/go decision will occur?

 

Spring of 2019

[KDawg]

1 hour ago, BatteredFanSyndrome said:

Interesting take.  

 

God forbid someone mention the elements here after Cousins plays less than stellar though.

 

Not saying you, but the pitchfork toting crew will hear none of it.

 

Still not with you on Bortles not being dung though.

 

 

 

Never said he was great. Just irks me that people watched him once and now he sucks because the wind was blowing 800mph.

 

hes not top shelf, but he’s better than “dung”

[Skinsinparadise]

Burgundy Blog‏Verified account @BurgundyBlog 10m10 minutes ago

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On Cuz, from up 95. http://burgundy.blog/va6wl  @MMehtaNYDN

[skinsfan35yrs.]

On 1/14/2018 at 10:30 PM, samy316 said:

 

What good would cutting costs do, when you have a bunch of clowns running the Front Office, and a clown owner who has never proven once that he knows what he's doing?  If we're getting 8-10 wins a year with Cousins as is now, why would we set ourselves back just on the chance that we will get to build our team in that mold?  What evidence do you have that we would get it right once we blow up the team and save cap room?  We never will get it right, that's the answer.  Unless you are all in for cleaning house, and letting a new FO decide what to do with Cousins, that's cool, but if you're for keeping the status quo, I got some bad news for you:  We will be bad for a long time to come, with nothing to show for it.

where do you get the 10 from?

[CommanderDOOM]

1 hour ago, petey hodge said:

Does anyone know when the stay/go decision will occur?

 

He wants to wait till March. His price can then go up to a 29 aav for us.

 

2 hours ago, PF Chang said:

"keep that **** in bounds, bro." An actual quote. 

 

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000609333/Kirk-Cousins-takes-knee-blows-possible-scoring-chance

The intentional grounding call could be here But PG's reaction....

[skinsfan35yrs.]

On 1/15/2018 at 8:53 AM, skinsOLfan said:

Some of the Kirk supports make me laugh always boasting his 4000+ yd seasons, completion percentage, etc but the only stat that counts is wins and loses.

You guys make every excuse in the book for Kirk, it's always someone else on the teams fault never Kirk, the defense sucks, no running game, the receivers suck. 

And when RGIII was here everything was his fault although his OL was nowhere near as good as this one (changed/upgraded 3 starters for Kirk) the defense wasn't all world but even when RGIII's did his "part" and scored enough to win but defense or special teams lost us the game, the loss was all his fault. But with Kirk it's not him it's everyone else. However Kirk chokes in every big game or situation when those around him are playing well, how many times has he thrown a pick 6 or interception in the endzone thwarting a scoring drive? All of his "stats" move the team between the 20s but he chokes in the redzone.

Also with his passing stats how many times have his receivers bailed him out on some terrible throws or he throws the checkdown and a receiver turns it into a long touchdown (Crowder and Thompson on screen plays).

Don't get me wrong Kirk is a good NFL starter not elite but top 15 but there's no way he deserves to be the "highest" paid player in the NFL because for the money he and his agent expect/demand he should be able to put the team on his back and win in spite of how the rest of the team is playing, he should be able to elevate those around him not just pad his stats. Because ALL of the other QBs in that pay range have won multilpe division titles and 10+ win seasons and have played in or won Super Bowls and Cousins has not.

I would rather tag and trade Kirk or let him walk and continue to build the team (Gruden must make running the football a priority) with better Defense and running the football. Team > individual player.

 

as far as your comments about RGlll and his O line, when Kirk would come in with the same O line Kirk did far better and was sacked alot less